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Alebelly · Oct 19, 2017

Im pretty sure almost every game I was interested in pre-ordering over the last year, when I went to the community thread to see what others were saying, there was always a singular standout thread that was absolutely insidious in nature, in how it was presented almost innocuously, and when you viewed the thread it was absolutely disgusting to read through. And I did read through these threads a few times, because I simply couldn't believe this was on steam.

Hell even the game Hob had some insidious thread where the person was claiming to be black and went into an elaborate tirade about the game and what it represented, but it was designed, calculated thread to specifically trigger people against him and the things he claimed to represent, and people were getting triggered.

BiggNife · Oct 19, 2017

Valve's philosophy that algorithms are a perfectly viable replacement for manual moderation is getting increasingly aggravating because it's obvious that it totally isn't.

Valve could easily hire more people to moderate the steam store and community pages but they won't because they have some script doing it.

D4Danger · Oct 19, 2017

VariantX said:
I'm sure Valve is furiously working on an algorithm or a crowd sourced venture to take care of that instead of actually paying someone to actually clean up their communities.

It's funny because it's true.

Steel · Oct 19, 2017

RichiRamjag said:
I dont think the author takes issue with how theyre displayed tbh. Id question why theyre even allowed.

They're allowed because valve has 100 employees and only pays attention to things that are pointed out at a high level, like this article. Considering how much bank they're making, you'd think they'd hire a community team.

ZugZug123 · Oct 19, 2017

Valve is so hands of with Steam that I suspect they are a bunch of libertarian Bros (or lazy, maybe both). Would not surprise me if there is a bunch of them that are also either on board with or not bothered by right wing views.

AcceptableGhost · Oct 19, 2017

It will probably have to get a lot worse before Valve actually does anything (like, big companies not releasing games on Steam because of this reason). Tech companies seem to not care unless it is pushed to the absolute breaking point (losing money).

LordRaptor · Oct 19, 2017

Kolibri said:
This issue is less to do with Steam and just PC gaming in general.

Nobody likes to hear it or say it, but PC gaming itself attracts a certain demographic that makes up a considerable portion of it's community. There is pretty much nothing you can do about it.

Yup, you nailed it, its just a PC thing

Elaugaufein · Oct 19, 2017

Hari Seldon said:
Yeah I only see the ones I follow, must be a bug.

I get 6 or so recommended curators on certain pages, but they are clearly based on algorithmic matches between games I own / play and those reviewed by the curator rather than global recommendations.

Roshin · Oct 19, 2017

I like Valve and Steam, I do, but they don't do nearly enough about this. A couple of minutes in Search will turn out loads of offensive usernames and groups.

I just reported a bunch of them. Hopefully I pissed some of them off.

Kolibri · Oct 19, 2017

jaxpunk said:
So your saying, just for the record. That there is a pc gaming community that is more toxic than console war fanboys?

From what I have seen, yes. For you record.

Remember, I'm talking about online communities here. I don't give a shit about some individual saying crap on XBL. I mean actual groups (Forums and such).

Instro · Oct 19, 2017

VariantX said:
I'm sure Valve is furiously working on an algorithm or a crowd sourced venture to take care of that instead of actually paying someone to actually clean up their communities.

I'm sure, although given the glacial speed of their Steam development it will be several years before we see anything.

Murkas · Oct 19, 2017

Lol it's Valve, a company with customer service so bad it's worse than "how do we Internet" Nintendos. You got a better chance of finding the cure for cancer by putting lab coats on monkeys than you've got with Valve moderating and curating their store.

LewieP · Oct 19, 2017

"master race" is just a joke though right?

Crossing Eden · Oct 19, 2017

Lime said:
Perfectly normal company that allows this:

Valve is a terrible company

But why is gaming so uncool?

Guess Who · Oct 19, 2017

"Ah, but see, if Valve were to moderate the community, they might accidentally get rid of a good group that I want to be in as a false positive! It's more important that Valve let all content exist on Steam than to get rid of "bad" content because what's bad is subjective and maybe Nazis are actually alright, who is to say"

Chris_Rivera · Oct 19, 2017

wrowa said:
How about not giving racists, homophobes, white supremacists and all of the other hateful shit heads a plattform in the first place? The world being full of hate groups doesnt mean that a platform like Steam has to be so too.

Probably because it isnt a trivial problem to solve. Facebook and the real world have the same issue.

Crayon · Oct 19, 2017

Valve c'mon.

andymcc · Oct 19, 2017

Chris_Rivera said:
Probably because it isnt a trivial problem to solve. Facebook and the real world have the same issue.

Dude, I literally found my SOs brother in a steam group with the word Niggers in it. No workaround, no spacing.

You saying theres nothing that could have been done prior to me reporting it?

D4Danger · Oct 19, 2017

LewieP said:
"master race" is just a joke though right?

People who use it unironically are just too dumb to know it was always at their expense.

haozz · Oct 19, 2017

Who hasn't seen those "keep steam ventilated with these windmills" type comments on people's profiles?

KojiKnight · Oct 19, 2017

How many people does Valve employee anymore? I mean, the income from their own games F2P mechanics has to put them at value of companies many times their size... yet they seem to lack very basic things like handlers for their multi-billion dollar store front.

RichiRamjag · Oct 19, 2017

D4Danger said:
People who use it unironically are just too dumb to know it was always at their expense.

Sadly, thats a good portion of them. Most of the younger people who got into that dont obviously get the original joke. I used to game with some of them and it was obnoxious. Everyone isnt like that of course.

GlitchyDegree · Oct 19, 2017

Lime said:
Perfectly normal company that allows this:

Valve is a terrible company

I don't use Steam much. How do you report awful shit like this?

LordRaptor · Oct 19, 2017

Kolibri said:
Remember, I'm talking about online communities here. I don't give a shit about some individual saying crap on XBL. I mean actual groups (Forums and such).

I personally think someone targetting racist, transphobic, homophobic, misogynistic, or other hate-fuelled rhetoric directly at an individual in real time significantly worse than "wallpaper" hatred.

I also don't believe evidence of people abusing freedoms 'proves' a group of people are inherently worse than a group that has no such freedom to abuse, or that having no freedom is therefore better.

jacobeid · Oct 19, 2017

andymcc said:
Dude, I literally found my SOs brother in a steam group with the word Niggers in it. No workaround, no spacing.

You saying theres nothing that could have been done prior to me reporting it?

Honestly, yes people make this argument. Happened with Rose McGowan getting twitter banned quickly but then not having anything to recognize that someone shouldn't be allowed to have the username "JewKiller."

Shit like this should not be hard to flag.

LewieP · Oct 19, 2017

D4Danger said:
People who use it unironically are just too dumb to know it was always at their expense.

I'm not aware of any context for it to be used in where it's not white supremacist language.

If you're going for irony, there are other ways to mock elitist gamers than using white supremacist language.

TessRoye · Oct 19, 2017

CrazyHal · Oct 19, 2017

D4Danger said:
People who use it unironically are just too dumb to know it was always at their expense.

Yeah seriously. The person who came up with the phrase is british reviewer Yathzee in his Witcher 1 review https://youtu.be/P0dXtOVi2yo.

In the video, he's clearly making fun of people who think that they're superior for gaming on PC.

The irony of it all.

LewieP · Oct 19, 2017

CrazyHal said:
Yeah seriously. The person who came up with the phrase is british reviewer Yathzee in his Witcher 1 review https://youtu.be/P0dXtOVi2yo.

In the video, he's clearly making fun of people who think that they're superior for gaming on PC.

The irony of it all.

No, "master race" was popularised under the Nazi party in Germany.

Using white supremacist language to make this point was poor judgement, although given Crowshaw's track record, that's hardly a surprise.

petran79 · Oct 19, 2017

Kolibri said:
From what I have seen, yes. For you record.

Remember, I'm talking about online communities here. I don't give a shit about some individual saying crap on XBL. I mean actual groups (Forums and such).

Console players who couldnt vent their anger on Third Strike Online Edition, went to GGPO PC lobbies and it became a cesspool.

Metal Gear?! · Oct 19, 2017

ZugZug123 said:
Valve is so hands of with Steam that I suspect they are a bunch of libertarian Bros (or lazy, maybe both). Would not surprise me if there is a bunch of them that are also either on board with or not bothered by right wing views.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/cqol9re/

Abilidebob · Oct 19, 2017

Kolibri said:
From personal experience (Gaming for over 30 years), I find that PC gaming seems to attract more "Teenage edgelords" than other mediums. I have no explanation why, it's just something I've observed.

It could just be because they are more vocal on the net. But either way, the worst game communities I have been part of over the years are all PC-exclusive games.

What a load of horseshit. Go to ANY barely moderated forum about games, and you'll see the same vitriol from the Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft and PC sections. And I find it hilarious you're talking about "teenage edgelords" when the popularity of teenagers calling randoms n*****rs on the internet came from console gaming.

Sorry, but your platform of choice isn't any better than any other, we're all drowning in mud here.

PetrCobra · Oct 19, 2017

Chestbridge said:
What happens if you click the "if you think this group is serious" link at the bottom? No way I want to even visit this group on my steam to try.

I was wondering the same. Tried googling but couldn't find the group so I said screw it, but maybe someone could tell us.

Deleted member 126221 · Oct 19, 2017

Chestbridge said:
What happens if you click the "if you think this group is serious" link at the bottom? No way I want to even visit this group on my steam to try.

PetrCobra said:
I was wondering the same. Tried googling but couldn't find the group so I said screw it, but maybe someone could tell us.

From the article in OP:

A link at the bottom of that section says "If you think this group is serious:" and links out to the WikiHow page about how to tie a noose.

Hilarious, right?

homeworkfilms · Oct 19, 2017

You don't get rich by spending money on moderation...

Gabe Newell is worth $5.5 billion, according to Forbes - 1 of 100 richest people in America

http://www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-is-worth-55-billion-according-to-forbes/?utm_content=bufferb507d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw

Valve boss Gabe Newell can afford to buy whatever he wants in the next Steam sale without having to hide the receipts from his significant other. That much we know. But is he loaded enough to snag a spot among the 100 wealthiest people in America? According to Forbes' most recent list of the 400 richest people in the country, the answer is yessir.

IamDodongo · Oct 19, 2017

WaterAstro said:
They are full of paying hate groups, so Valve doesn't care as long as they pay. lol

That seems to be the situation. Valve is rolling in money, but can't be arsed to make sure their platform isn't a shit hole.

AtomskEater · Oct 19, 2017

Unless whoever is responsible for the group/board takes moderation seriously, if you're on the board for a game perceived as "SJW bait" (basically anything that dabbles in having gay and/or non-White male main characters), you're gonna see a good amount of trolling. People can review troll and openly state that the whole reason they're giving something a negative review is that it doesn't fit in with their "political" views or what the hell ever. Steam is pretty much the wild west, and I'm pretty sure like Twitter they won't care about tamping down on this stuff because they don't see a monetary benefit.

gaboumafou said:
Hilarious, right?

"Just joking about wanting to massacre everyone who is different from us, jk lol kys XDDD"

God, I hate people like this.

prudislav · Oct 19, 2017

jacobeid said:
Nope. Valve dishes them right up on the front page for you.

never happened to me on frontpage or curators page

and the pictures in the article looks like search results for certain words
and saying "Full of Hate Groups" while showing 15 curators with average 5 followers is quite an exaggeration

Lets see if i can get some of them by causually bowsing curators/groups:
EDIT: on "Recommended Curators" nothing in 20 pages .... maybe i could count JonTron on page 18

shira · Oct 19, 2017

I've reached out to Valve asking how this Curator ended up on the front page of the Steam Store, but have not heard back.

You gonna be waiting a long time.

CazTGG · Oct 19, 2017

What is their excuse for letting white supremacists run rampant outside of sheer indifference to bigotry? Valve can afford to pay people to make sure these hate groups are rightfully banned from their service instead of relying on their (and let's be frank in calling them what they are) useless algorithms.

CrazyHal said:
Yeah seriously. The person who came up with the phrase is british reviewer Yathzee in his Witcher 1 review https://youtu.be/P0dXtOVi2yo.

In the video, he's clearly making fun of people who think that they're superior for gaming on PC.

The irony of it all.

The term was used well before Yahtzee but he did help to popularize it (and I recall wrote an op-ed on it to explain why he wasn't commenting on Gamergate).

Turin Turambar · Oct 19, 2017

I imagine Valve saying

"Yeah, we could try to moderate Steam, but in the other hand... money. Free money. We like it."

I suppose they will slap together a quick profanity filter to be applied to steam group names, user names, steam curator names, etc, and be done with it.

RionaaM · Oct 19, 2017

I've been getting tired of Valve's attitude lately. They don't seem to care about anything that doesn't bring them money, and since lack of moderation isn't reducing their profit, it's simply another thing they refuse to act upon. They are responsible for maintaining a healthy and respectful community, and have utterly failed in that task. At this point I don't expect Valve to do anything good anymore.

Of course, I'll keep buying Steam games because I like it as a distribution service, so my words don't mean anything in the end since I will continue to give them money.

Aters · Oct 19, 2017

We just need to wait for break through in machine learning. It's getting there.

hamchan · Oct 19, 2017

The robots rebelled and killed all the Valve employees except for the few they keep hostage to force them to make occasional public appearances to keep up the ruse.

jrcbandit · Oct 19, 2017

Steam forums are a cesspool so hate groups being there is no big surprise. One user equated planned parenthood to Nazi supported genocide.

Phoenix RISING · Oct 19, 2017

Lime said:
Perfectly normal company that allows this:

Valve is a terrible company

Has anyone followed the "click on this if you think this is serious" link at the bottom?

Hamster Plugin · Oct 19, 2017

Phoenix RISING said:
Has anyone followed the "click on this if you think this is serious" link at the bottom?

The article did. It leads to WikiHow "How to tie a noose".

Nickle · Oct 19, 2017

Gaben is rolling his desk to the community outreach department as we speak.

Lime · Oct 19, 2017

I cant believe Valve is such a profitable company with a huge billionaire at the helm, but somehow they cant be bothered or spend the low amount of money to weed out the cesspool in their platform garden.

Velocity:Design:Comfort · Oct 20, 2017

It's sad to say but this is so rampant on Steam that it almost makes me like Sony's think of the children and Nintendo's do-nothing approaches. Almost.

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