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Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mathrin

Fuck that dude, no ratings board would certify it.

If South Park couldn't get an anal probe scene through the ratings board in some countries, the explicit or insinuated rape of a child sure as shit wont.

Sure, but even in the insane possibility of the rating boards having a fucking seizure and allowing it, it would just bomb.
Z3M0G
Member
(12-05-2017, 03:18 PM)
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A dude beats his 10 year old daughter to death? I don't want to see that... in anything... so I don't think i want to play this game...
Juno
LIAR and a FELON
(12-05-2017, 03:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Z3M0G

A dude beats his 10 year old daughter to death? I don't want to see that... in anything... so I don't think i want to play this game...

Not really - that's the issue here - the sensationalism over this trailer in the mainstream media. What they say in their headline does not happen in the game or trailer, it is just implied.
Senua
Banned
(12-05-2017, 03:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Z3M0G

A dude beats his 10 year old daughter to death? I don't want to see that... in anything... so I don't think i want to play this game...

Someone please think of the children.
Xenobureido
Banned
(12-05-2017, 03:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Z3M0G

A dude beats his 10 year old daughter to death? I don't want to see that... in anything... so I don't think i want to play this game...

Which is the one reasonable stance. Don't want something? Don't consume it. But don't tell others what they can and cannot want. Unfortunately, a lot of people are like that.

Anyway, agreed with most of what Lionel posted.
Rocket Number 22
Member
(12-05-2017, 03:59 PM)
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Is the dad modeled on Alex Jones?

lol
SorenBach
Junior Member
(12-05-2017, 04:17 PM)
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Man, this game looks so cool.. conceptually. Dat uncanny valley tho..

Anyways, I think it's good that video games bring up topics like these. It happens around the world unfortunately, and just hiding and ignoring them, is worse imo. Games are an art form, and the artist should be able to express whatever he/she intends.
oldergamer
Member
(12-05-2017, 05:00 PM)
Isn't the Sun owned by rupert murdock? Sounds too much like a fox news headline imo.
royox
Member
(12-05-2017, 05:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by MilkyJoe

If the idea of the game is to try stop a dad killing his child, then someone needs to evaluate their green lights. First I've seen of this.

The game is not about that... but what's wrong about saving a child from his dad?
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 05:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by SorenBach

Man, this game looks so cool.. conceptually. Dat uncanny valley tho..

Anyways, I think it's good that video games bring up topics like these. It happens around the world unfortunately, and just hiding and ignoring them, is worse imo. Games are an art form, and the artist should be able to express whatever he/she intends.

There's this very nice video explaining why touchy subjects aren't frequently explored in video games. The reason is pretty much what you're already seeing in this thread.
autoduelist
Member
(12-05-2017, 06:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tence

In the context of a videogame, shooting some Nazi soldier in a war is in no way 'worse' than raping a child.

Edit: Also the act of killing can have many reasons, the act of raping a kid not really. And even though the result of the act of killing might be worse, the motivations for it might not be.

Raping a kid is always sick af.

Killing people is always sick af. We're just desensitized to it. Killing Nazi's? Sure, we are okay with it because we pretend they're all worst of the worst scum down to their last bone, when in fact plenty of the soldiers are just young kids and/or dads who were forced into the military and don't have nazi leanings.

We read and watch stories about serial killers doing all sorts of horrible things [too many hit franchises to even mention in all other art forms].

Don't get me wrong. I can't wait to kill me some Nazi's in Wolf 2 [sitting on my counter while I play NFS]. I think Inglourious Basterds is a masterpiece, and it's one of my favorite films [I'm a war film buff, and have seen nearly all of them]. But I also understand that I'm completely desensitized to fictional death [if watched Saw and ate popcorn, I'd find the popcorn distasteful because I don't like it, and 'holy shit that's cool' through the movie].

Actually, it's not just that I'm desensitized to fictional death. It's that it's fictional. I don't get scared by horror movies because they're fictional. I can watch Hostel and not care, but one look at the nightly news turns my stomach. Real vs. fiction.

So yeah, you're right. Raping children is always sick af. But we use it in fiction. Like I mentioned in a previous post, it's in classics of literature. It's in modern day hits like Lovely Bones [and plenty of others]. It's in episodes of Law & Order SVU, NCIS, etc, on primetime tv. It's used across all fiction, even though it's 'sick as fuck'.

You are applying rules to games that nobody applies to any other form of fiction. And the question is, why? How does that make sense?
Kamina
Member
(12-05-2017, 06:26 PM)
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I don't see the problem. Any compassionate human playing this game will try to take smart decisions to avoid that outcome anyway.
Xenobureido
Banned
(12-05-2017, 06:34 PM)

Originally Posted by autoduelist


You are applying rules to games that nobody applies to any other form of fiction. And the question is, why? How does that make sense?

Because of the end-all-discussion, boogeyman argument "doing it virtually leads to some wanting to do it in reality".

To which any reasonable human being would answer:

1) What about murder then? Ban ALL games where you shoot others NOW, because they will want to do it irl eventually. But all that money from selling such games ... huh.
2) Most people can differ between fiction and reality. Many play games exactly to do the things they'd never do irl. It's the taboobthat makes it fun - within the limits of a game.
3) Crazy people exist. But you don't shut down an entire sub-genre of story telling because of that one sick fuck that got triggered by the game, and woukd have been triggered by a thousands other outside factors, had it not been 'that game'. School massacres weren't Counterstrike's fault, but the game may well have acted as a final trigger of sorts. We still play Counterstrike. Because it makes sense.
SorenBach
Junior Member
(12-05-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

There's this very nice video explaining why touchy subjects aren't frequently explored in video games. The reason is pretty much what you're already seeing in this thread.

Thanks, great video. I agree with his points and yes this can basically be compared to all the "touchy" subjects used in video games.
mckmas8808
Sony is POO
(12-05-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tence

In the context of a videogame, shooting some Nazi soldier in a war is in no way 'worse' than raping a child.

Edit: Also the act of killing can have many reasons, the act of raping a kid not really. And even though the result of the act of killing might be worse, the motivations for it might not be.

Raping a kid is always sick af.

Good point Tence.
witchedwiz
Member
(12-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by SoulUnison

That does sound like something way heavier than I'm sure I trust David Cage with.

and still it's a game..
but...
given, I understand the concerns, it's really depressing that
1) you (the sun) as a newspaper are actually implying that a game with a violent dad might trigger a dad to become violent
2) that you (the sun) are partly right about this kind of shit acutally affecting people, though this admittedly is not limited to videogames but also includes film and whatnot..

makes one wonder where (and when) did we go wrong while "growing up" as a society...
Rains
Member
(12-05-2017, 08:03 PM)
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Please don't Give the sun the clicks thats news paper is scummy

Also game looks meh
Phatosaurus
Member
(12-05-2017, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mathrin

Fuck that dude, no ratings board would certify it.

If South Park couldn't get an anal probe scene through the ratings board in some countries, the explicit or insinuated rape of a child sure as shit wont.

LA Noire got through fine, and that had numerous examples of paedophilia and child molestation. Hell, during an investigation you can open a guy’s bedroom door and find a 12 year old girl in there.
Ubername
Member
(12-06-2017, 12:07 AM)
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Is the TLOU thing the scene of that person hanging?
Tence
(12-06-2017, 07:31 AM)

Originally Posted by autoduelist

You are applying rules to games that nobody applies to any other form of fiction. And the question is, why? How does that make sense?

No I am not. How many times is child rape used in movies as entertainment? Can you imagine a movie like John Wick...but instead of the protagonist killing 40 mobsters, he rapes 40 children?

The act of killing is wrong, but almost everyone can imagine a situation where you kill someone, be it out of revenge or because that person is threatening you. How many times have you imagined raping a child? My guess would be zero.

And that is the huge difference.

Fake edit: And I was talking about the hypothetical situation of a game where you rape kids, NOT the game in the OP. I am not saying a heavy handed subject like that should not be in games per se.
Dunki
Member
(12-06-2017, 08:11 AM)

Originally Posted by Z3M0G

A dude beats his 10 year old daughter to death? I don't want to see that... in anything... so I don't think i want to play this game...

Then do not play it. It is as easy as that. Also you will most likely not see it. Just hear a scream and see the aftermath.
mckmas8808
Sony is POO
(12-07-2017, 03:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ubername

Is the TLOU thing the scene of that person hanging?

Yep.
llien
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:01 PM)
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Worth reading: Video game controversies (covers "games make people more violent" etc, contrary for what it is believed on GAF there is no clear conclusion on it)

Originally Posted by Tence

In the context of a videogame, shooting some Nazi soldier in a war is in no way 'worse' than raping a child.

That's a cringy discussion to have, but shouldn't you be comparing raping a child to killing a child?
Mooreberg
Member
(12-07-2017, 09:12 PM)
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I think it is good that such plot heavy games like the ones Quantic Dream makes explore stuff that may not really have place in an entirely mechanics focused game. But I'm also not the least bit surprised that the media reacts to things like a bunch of chronically offended children.
Ubername
Member
(12-07-2017, 09:33 PM)
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It boggles my mind that people are not ok with this. Having some offensive art is the price of having all the other good stuff we have. If you think it's obscene then don't consume it. I don't tell people who watch horror movies they're sick and I especially don't think their rights should be infringed upon because you don't have the stomach for it. If you're really offended by a piece of entertainment you should consider moving to a place where they don't have freedom of expression so that you don't have to worry about being offended
dolabla
Member
(12-07-2017, 09:44 PM)

Originally Posted by Ubername

It boggles my mind that people are not ok with this. Having some offensive art is the price of having all the other good stuff we have. If you think it's obscene then don't consume it. I don't tell people who watch horror movies they're sick and I especially don't think their rights should be infringed upon because you don't have the stomach for it. If you're really offended by a piece of entertainment you should consider moving to a place where they don't have freedom of expression so that you don't have to worry about being offended

Exactly! If it offends you, you don't have to play it. Like Sony said about the Last of Us 2 controversy, it's a game made by adults for adults.
BANGS
Member
(12-07-2017, 10:28 PM)
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Both Boogie and Dreamcastguy have gone on record to say that as victim's of child abuse themselves, they are glad to see this game tackle such issues...

This is just yet another case of outrage culture and nanny state...
Ubername
Member
(12-08-2017, 02:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by dolabla

Exactly! If it offends you, you don't have to play it. Like Sony said about the Last of Us 2 controversy, it's a game made by adults for adults.

Agreed. Censorship is just bad. As if stifling discussion about a particular issue made it go away? It's so offensive.
Rising_Hei
Member
(12-08-2017, 02:45 AM)
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Funnily enough, when they start suppresing these things so much, instead of letting people see it to make everyone what's so wrong with that (which happens in the real world) it would happen much less IRL.

The cuture of censoring everything just because it's "brutal" and many other reasons, without putting much thought into it it so damn harmful, this is why sometimes i feel as if we can't get good things.

So they should just artists do as they please if their explanation for certain strong scenes do have a valid point.

"Show and let people know the miseries and sorrows of war, so peace prevails"
Ubername
Member
(12-08-2017, 02:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rising_Hei

So they should just artists do as they please if their explanation for certain strong scenes do have a valid point.

I don't even think you need it to have a reason for being there. Why shouldn't we have wanton gore/obscene themes in film/gaming? Why should you need a reason? We have shit like Dunkirk, shit like Splatterhouse that some people get some enjoyment out of, which is a great thing.
Dacon
Member
(12-08-2017, 11:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Z3M0G

A dude beats his 10 year old daughter to death? I don't want to see that... in anything... so I don't think i want to play this game...

That's why you're prompted to action to save the child in the first place. You're supposed to be horrified by the possibility of it and do something about it.

If the kid gets killed it's because the player didn't do anything to stop it. The game isnt encouraging or sanctioning such actions against children, it's simply the consequence of doing nothing when you know something terrible is about to happen.
Martinski43
Member
(12-08-2017, 11:28 AM)
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This again.

Just like other media like books, movies and TV shows, games should be able to have mature and disturbing content. Every game is not for everyone just like other media aint for everyone.
autoduelist
Member
(12-08-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tence

No I am not. How many times is child rape used in movies as entertainment? Can you imagine a movie like John Wick...but instead of the protagonist killing 40 mobsters, he rapes 40 children?

The act of killing is wrong, but almost everyone can imagine a situation where you kill someone, be it out of revenge or because that person is threatening you. How many times have you imagined raping a child? My guess would be zero.

And that is the huge difference.

Fake edit: And I was talking about the hypothetical situation of a game where you rape kids, NOT the game in the OP. I am not saying a heavy handed subject like that should not be in games per se.

"How many times is child rape used in movies as entertainment?"

I've already given you examples, like The Lovely Bones. Various episodes of CSI: SVU. Various episodes of NCIS. There are many others.

Serial Killer fiction is a -huge- business. Absolutely massive.

There is no test for fiction that it can only exist if -you- can imagine doing it. You've come up with a ridiculous test that is absolutely meaningless. I could never imagine myself hunting a giant whale. I could never imagine myself even hurting a child.

Can you 'imagine' yourself going on a killing spree? I sure couldn't. Never have. The idea is revolting to me. Yet someone [a relatively famous and successful, if terrible, director named Uwe Boll] made a movie about it, 2009's Rampage. I found the movie repulsive and turned it off soon after the spree started. And since I knew what it was about, I technically didn't even need to try to watch it- I could have, and should have, just ignored it.

I get it, you don't like child rape. Neither do I. It's foul. But don't think for a second that people don't already use it to create fiction. Your argument is based on ridiculous examples stretched exceedingly thing, ignoring all other mediums, and trying for some emotion based response. Yes, a game as you describe would be gross... but that game doesn't exist, would likely never exist, and if it did exist would be banned from all storefronts and sell 0 copies. It's a non-starter, yet you're using it to try to lay the foundation for games being held to a different standard than film and literature.

I mean, it's like saying 'Can you imagine a book where a guy just kidnaps and kills children?!' We need to ban that! It's awful! It's wrong. It's evil! Yeah, and it was also a hit book and hit movie called The Lovely Bones. But somehow, because you're talking about 'games', you get to posit some imaginary terror as 'John Wick raping children', like somehow painting the worst possible case situation ever is representative of the actual conversation we're attempting to have.

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