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Xenobureido
Banned
(12-04-2017, 03:38 PM)

Originally Posted by Alx

Being fictional is not an excuse in itself, otherwise anything would fly provided it's not real characters. Some time ago Japan used the "it's fictional" defense for pedophile anime, after all.
With that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with Detroit, since it doesn't promote violence or child killing, just telling a story where those things happen. It's not for all audience, but apart from that it's ok.

I disagree. That is the point: anything 'flies' when it's fictional. The only limiter should be financial success and not morality. Some of the best movies and books tell elements that are absolutely against societal standards - which is what makes them interesting. Games shouldn't be forbidden from telling such stories.
LordRaptor
Member
(12-04-2017, 03:48 PM)
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The sun is trash.
But so is David Cage.

\_(ツ)_/

Originally Posted by sublimit

Would they have even bothered if Detroit was a movie rather than a video game?

I think there are actually UK classification guidelines on this that means yes, it would still need to be censored if it was a film and not a videogame.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-04-2017, 03:50 PM)
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Big deal.
SonicSleuth
Junior Member
(12-04-2017, 03:59 PM)
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I hope game makers continue to ignore the crying of the gaming public. Especially when half the games being marketed are quite literally mass murder in a box... morality is not what video games are all about.
Dunki
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:00 PM)

Originally Posted by LordRaptor

The sun is trash.
But so is David Cage.

\_(ツ)_/



I think there are actually UK classification guidelines on this that means yes, it would still need to be censored if it was a film and not a videogame.

I doubt that such a scene would ned to be censored in any form. Overall its also M rated game as far we know. But even usk 15 would be easily doable by what we have seen. We only heard screams and not the act itself.
LordRaptor
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

I doubt that such a scene would ned to be censored in any form. Overall its also M rated game as far we know. But even usk 15 would be easily doable by what we have seen. We only heard screams and not the act itself.

The UK has different classification standards, it uses the BBFC.
It banned Manhunt 2 from sale, if you remember, although that was freely available elsewhere.
Stormblessed
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:35 PM)
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The Sun is pro-tits, so this is the only way they can be morally outraged over video games.

Originally Posted by LordRaptor

The UK has different classification standards, it uses the BBFC.
It banned Manhunt 2 from sale, if you remember, although that was freely available elsewhere.

This stopped being true a while ago, the UK uses PEGI now. It was a weird move to make when the BBFC ratings are recognisable and we'll understood.
RastaMentality
Banned
(12-04-2017, 04:37 PM)
The Sun is bad but so are video games in the way they navigate heavy topics.
Dunki
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:38 PM)

Originally Posted by LordRaptor

The UK has different classification standards, it uses the BBFC.
It banned Manhunt 2 from sale, if you remember, although that was freely available elsewhere.

Even if Manhunt was banned. In Manhunt you hunt people down to murder them. In Detroit you play a scene which involves Child abuse. You are not the abuser but also a victim. These standards are very different.
RastaMentality
Banned
(12-04-2017, 04:38 PM)

Originally Posted by Xenobureido

I disagree. That is the point: anything 'flies' when it's fictional. The only limiter should be financial success and not morality. Some of the best movies and books tell elements that are absolutely against societal standards - which is what makes them interesting. Games shouldn't be forbidden from telling such stories.

So you would be OK with a game where the player controls a pedophile and rapes children?

This is a serious question.
KormaChameleon
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stormblessed

The Sun is pro-tits, so this is the only way they can be morally outraged over video games.



This stopped being true a while ago, the UK uses PEGI now. It was a weird move to make when the BBFC ratings are recognisable and we'll understood.

They occasionally still rate games. LA Norie Remaster has been rated by the BBFC. Wonder if BBFC and PEGI has different guideline for rating games that are an 18+?
LordRaptor
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stormblessed

This stopped being true a while ago, the UK uses PEGI now. It was a weird move to make when the BBFC ratings are recognisable and we'll understood.

I didn't know they'd offloaded that, huh.

Originally Posted by Dunki

Even if Manhunt was banned. In Manhunt you hunt people down to murder them. In Detroit you play a scene which involves Child abuse. You are not the abuser but also a victim. These standards are very different.

Post-Jamie Bulger anything involving showing hurting minors is a political hot topic
Dunki
Member
(12-04-2017, 04:50 PM)

Originally Posted by RastaMentality

So you would be OK with a game where the player controls a pedophile and rapes children?

This is a serious question.

Ever played Japanese Hentai games Ever watched Japanese Porn? And yes I would be Ok if this would help this person never to act like this in reality. You can not hurt fictional characters.
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(12-04-2017, 05:10 PM)
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I just now saw the trailer.

What happened to the animation? It looked amazing in the first trailer... now it's just... wow. Total downgrade.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-04-2017, 05:13 PM)
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The game isn't out yet, why not wait to judge it on the entirety of its content when this scene and others are fully contextualized?
Sosokrates
Member
(12-04-2017, 05:25 PM)
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I guess they haven't seen movies that worse or equal.

Videogames are art like books or movies?

Why arent they condemned lol.
autoduelist
Member
(12-04-2017, 05:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

Being fictional is not an excuse in itself, otherwise anything would fly provided it's not real characters. Some time ago Japan used the "it's fictional" defense for pedophile anime, after all.
With that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with Detroit, since it doesn't promote violence or child killing, just telling a story where those things happen. It's not for all audience, but apart from that it's ok.

Anything does fly in fiction. Just because I don't want to consume some of it doesn't mean a thing. I mean, plenty of people have no interest in torture porn horror films [Saw, Hostel, etc] but it flies. Rape, murder, etc. We all draw our own lines, but at the end of the day fiction is fiction, regardless of content.
Ubername
Member
(12-04-2017, 05:40 PM)
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Why don't we have more games like this? We're a bunch of fuckin pussies. In fallout 3 you can kill every non quest essential NPC except for kids, wtf, witcher it's the same deal. The topic of discussion should be why don't we have more games with disgusting obscene violence that many would find offensive and how can we rectify this.
autoduelist
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by RastaMentality

So you would be OK with a game where the player controls a pedophile and rapes children?

This is a serious question.

Being okay with something doesn't mean we want it, like it, or will play it. I think such a game would be foul and disgusting. But it's pixels. A game, like you're talking about, would be [rightfully] banned by any storefront. It would be rightfully reviled, and scorned, just like plenty of other foul games out there. But that doesn't mean we somehow can prevent it from existing.


Creators create. They will create things you find foul and don't want to read/watch/play. That doesn't mean we stop them from creating. Because other people will take that some conceptual idea [be it murder, rape, or whatever] and make something admirable out of it. Violence can be used in a war movie, for example, to make it a statement against violence and war.

Forget torture, murder, and the rest. Let's talk rape. What about Irreversible? Or The Accused, with a graphic gang rape of Jodie Foster?

I mean, should someone be able to write a book about a "adult male who lusts after and ultimately rapes a twelve year old"? And if the answer is 'no', then how do you reconcile it? You're not talking about just banning books, you're banning books before they even exist. Because that's the basic plot of Lolita, a respected work of literature. Should it be banned? Kubrick made a movie out of it. Should that be banned? Should it not exist in the first place? How exactly do you prevent someone from writing Lolita?

What about a book about a man who kidnaps, rapes, and murders children? Because that's the plot of the hit book The Lovely Bones, also a movie.

Or do we realize words are words, and fiction is fiction? And we allow fiction to go places we do not allow the 'real world' to go. We always have, and for good reason. And yes, this lets utterly foul crap through too. But thankfully it's just fiction, and thankfully, we don't need to consume fiction we find foul. We don't need to support it. We can ignore it.
Militant17
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by RastaMentality

So you would be OK with a game where the player controls a pedophile and rapes children?

This is a serious question.

Is this a serious question?

You were not controlling the character that killed the child but the robot that was trying to prevent it, that's a strange comparison to make.
Xenobureido
Banned
(12-04-2017, 06:19 PM)

Originally Posted by RastaMentality

So you would be OK with a game where the player controls a pedophile and rapes children?

This is a serious question.

We already live in a world where murdering fictional people is 'standard'. That's already worse than your example.

Question: What would be so bad about such a game? Aside from offending your morality, I mean. And be aware that 'fantasy leads to the real thing' is not a particular strong argument considering our 'standard' as mentioned above.

I wouldn't play such a game. But it'd either sell enough to warrant its existence or be rejected by market realities. That's what it should be like. But I'm stil bitter over Treehouse ruining Xenoblade X and Fire Emblen Fates.
RootCause
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

Ever played Japanese Hentai games Ever watched Japanese Porn? And yes I would be Ok if this would help this person never to act like this in reality. You can not hurt fictional characters.

So what happens when the pedo is no longer satisfied by the fictitious world/characters?

It seems extremely dangerous to encourage/feed that behavior.
Xenobureido
Banned
(12-04-2017, 06:22 PM)

Originally Posted by RootCause

So what happens when the pedo is no longer satisfied by the fictitious world/characters?

It seems extremely dangerous to encourage/feed that behavior.

What happens when you're no longer satisfied by Doom?
RootCause
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xenobureido

What happens when you're no longer satisfied by Doom?

Well one is a sickness, the others are just demons that don't exist in real life. 🤷*♀️
Dunki
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:26 PM)

Originally Posted by RootCause

So what happens when the pedo is no longer satisfied by the fictitious world/characters?

It seems extremely dangerous to encourage/feed that behavior.

As I said. If I am sure. And there are studies which show these. EXample GTA. Everytime GTA is realeased the crime rate is sinking. Also what do you think ?

1. With a fantasy game he can live out his fantasies and which relifs this pressure

2. In a World in which his own desires get so much supressed to such a level that his desires are bursting and he has to actually attack a person/child to satisfy these desires?
mckmas8808
Sony is POO
(12-04-2017, 06:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

Except that they didn't tell what it was about during the conference. No title, no description, just "show is over, oh wait watch this before you go !".
Also even if the trailers for the first TLOU were violent too, that specific one was something else. As a matter of fact it did have a shock value even on people who are familiar with TLOU universe.

There could be a valid reason for ND to show that this game is going to be more violent than the first game too.
kunonabi
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

The game isn't out yet, why not wait to judge it on the entirety of its content when this scene and others are fully contextualized?

That would make sense but that just doesn't happen anymore in our eternally outraged, clickbait culture we live in.
LordRaptor
Member
(12-04-2017, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xenobureido

What happens when you're no longer satisfied by Doom?

I play Quake
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-04-2017, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by kunonabi

That would make sense but that just doesn't happen anymore in our eternally outraged, clickbait culture we live in.

Absolutely, why not wait to overreact when we know what the fuck we're dealing with when we can overreact right now? People are dying in the streets you know.
ThisGuy
Member
(12-04-2017, 07:52 PM)
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Wait till they read a book.
RastaMentality
Banned
(12-04-2017, 07:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Xenobureido

We already live in a world where murdering fictional people is 'standard'. That's already worse than your example.

Question: What would be so bad about such a game? Aside from offending your morality, I mean. And be aware that 'fantasy leads to the real thing' is not a particular strong argument considering our 'standard' as mentioned above.

I wouldn't play such a game. But it'd either sell enough to warrant its existence or be rejected by market realities. That's what it should be like. But I'm stil bitter over Treehouse ruining Xenoblade X and Fire Emblen Fates.

It's a lot more than frightening that you think the removal of skimpy clothing options for a 13 year old character "ruins" a game for you
RastaMentality
Banned
(12-04-2017, 08:01 PM)
This character is 13 years old. On the right we have the JP version and on the left the localized version.



For some reason, Xenobureido considers this change to be game-ruining
Xenobureido
Banned
(12-04-2017, 08:19 PM)

Originally Posted by RastaMentality

This character is 13 years old. On the right we have the JP version and on the left the localized version.



For some reason, Xenobureido considers this change to be game-ruining

You really hate me, huh?

On the right side, the player *chose* to dress Lyn in that revealing suit. On the left side, Lyn is wearing the (almost) default outfit which is the same in the Japanese version.

I consider any change from the original vision of the creator 'ruined', no matter what it is. If the western version had revealing outfits whereas they weren't in the Japanese original,I'd complain about it, too.

Of course, that's not what this is about. People like you want anything sexual banned from games. Boobs are bad. There are currently video game journalists docking points off Xenoblade 2 because of the sexy character designs. Sex is nothing to be ashamed of. Even less so in the realm of fiction.
gioGAF
Member
(12-05-2017, 01:35 AM)
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Ridiculous article. I presume this game will be rated "M", so I don't see the problem. I guess "The Sun" can start slamming all "R" rated films with objectionable content.

Hard to get this medium on par with film if every idiot out there is going to complain about adult content in a game geared towards adult audiences. Imagine how ridiculous this would sound if the medium in question was film, smh.
luxsol
Member
(12-05-2017, 03:17 AM)

Originally Posted by Xenobureido

That is the point: anything 'flies' when it's fictional. The only limiter should be financial success and not morality. Some of the best movies and books tell elements that are absolutely against societal standards - which is what makes them interesting. Games shouldn't be forbidden from telling such stories.

Pretty much this.

Anyone can make anything they want as long as it doesn't cause harm.

No one needs nosy busy bodies telling someone else what they should or shouldn't play/read/watch.
Juno
LIAR and a FELON
(12-05-2017, 11:50 AM)

Originally Posted by gioGAF

Hard to get this medium on par with film if every idiot out there is going to complain about adult content in a game geared towards adult audiences. Imagine how ridiculous this would sound if the medium in question was film, smh.

This is the part that I'm most concerned/frustrated about.

Hollywood puts plaudits (Oscars) on films like Spotlight, which show an actual real-life story about child molestation in the Catholic Church, but it's still seen as an art form.

Video games, despite being sold to a majority adult audience (I think around 75%) are still tarred with the idea that all games are played by 13-year-olds - despite the fact it's illegal to sell them to minors when they have 18+ ratings. To me, the issue here is how these kids are getting hold of these games and being allowed to play them...
Rellik
Banned
(12-05-2017, 11:59 AM)
You know GAF is struggling when articles from The Sun are being posted. Holy shit.
Juno
LIAR and a FELON
(12-05-2017, 12:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Rellik

You know GAF is struggling when articles from The Sun are being posted. Holy shit.

I don't know, I think there's a bigger topic to be discussed here...

Yeah, it's sad that The Sun/D. Mail are still being discussed, but they're widely circulated rags with quite a reach, that sadly overspills into mainstream consciousness.
_A2
Junior Member
(12-05-2017, 01:03 PM)
Article mentions the game being 'under fire'. Under fire from who?, I don't understand. Besides being under fire from their own article that is.
VGdrumCovers
Member
(12-05-2017, 01:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rellik

You know GAF is struggling when articles from The Sun are being posted. Holy shit.

Yeah man, right on. As one of the UK's best-selling newspapers, let's completely ignore how much impact and influence articles like this can have on the gaming community. God forbid a gaming forum to talk about how gaming is being portrayed in mass media, what a bunch of jokers we are!
stargateheaven
Member
(12-05-2017, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by VGdrumCovers

Yeah man, right on. As one of the UK's best-selling newspapers, let's completely ignore how much impact and influence articles like this can have on the gaming community. God forbid a gaming forum to talk about how gaming is being portrayed in mass media, what a bunch of jokers we are!

the difference is it doesn't sell because of its news.

it sells because it has a naked girl on page 3.
VGdrumCovers
Member
(12-05-2017, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by stargateheaven

the difference is it doesn't sell because of its news.

it sells because it has a naked girl on page 3.

Yeah, which is a huge problem and which is why it's more damning for an article like this to go out in a paper The Sun or Daily Mail as opposed to something like like The Guardian or The Times.

Vast majority of people reading these papers believe anything they read and jump to easy conclusions.
Mathrin
Member
(12-05-2017, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by stargateheaven

the difference is it doesn't sell because of its news.

it sells because it has a naked girl on page 3.

Do you mean the Page 3 girls that haven't existed in that form since January 2015?

Regardless - the impact of The Sun is incredibly high despite being sensationalist.

I've always seen The Sun as a precursor for these shitty clickbait articles the net is plagued with now. Their headline styles are very similar and both have absolutely zero journalistic integrity.
Tence
(12-05-2017, 02:11 PM)

Originally Posted by Xenobureido

We already live in a world where murdering fictional people is 'standard'. That's already worse than your example.


Most people don't consider killing bad guys worse than raping innocent children.
Xenobureido
Banned
(12-05-2017, 02:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Tence

Most people don't consider killing bad guys worse than raping innocent children.

Most people consider death worse than rape - and for good reason.
Tence
(12-05-2017, 02:23 PM)

Originally Posted by Xenobureido

Most people consider death worse than rape - and for good reason.

In the context of a videogame, shooting some Nazi soldier in a war is in no way 'worse' than raping a child.

Edit: Also the act of killing can have many reasons, the act of raping a kid not really. And even though the result of the act of killing might be worse, the motivations for it might not be.

Raping a kid is always sick af.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 02:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tence

Most people don't consider killing bad guys worse than raping innocent children.

JFC what game features children being raped? Why do you people feel the need to use extreme examples when they are not connected to reality?
Tence
(12-05-2017, 02:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

JFC what game features children being raped? Why do you people feel the need to use extreme examples when they are not connected to reality?


That discussion already started before the first time you posted in this topic.

There are no games where you rape children (at least that I am aware of) and I like to keep it that way. However some people seem to differ in opinion.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 02:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tence

That discussion already started before the first time you posted in this topic.

There are no games where you rape children (at least that I am aware of) and I like to keep it that way. However some people seem to differ in opinion.

Yeah but it was a nonsensical example when it was first posted and I thought if I stayed quiet it would stop, but come on no mainstream game would ever allow your character to do that. You don't even need to forbid the creators from doing a game like this, you know why? Because nobody would fucking play it.
Mathrin
Member
(12-05-2017, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Yeah but it was a nonsensical example when it was first posted and I thought if I stayed quiet it would stop, but come on no mainstream game would ever allow your character to do that. You don't even need to forbid the creators from doing a game like this, you know why? Because nobody would fucking play it.

Fuck that dude, no ratings board would certify it.

If South Park couldn't get an anal probe scene through the ratings board in some countries, the explicit or insinuated rape of a child sure as shit wont.

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