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googleplex · May 31, 2013

Amir0x said:
Sony on Always Online:

Yo guys. Ain't nothing vague about this.

Contrast with Microsoft's response on the issue so far in this topic right here.

I made this post in the Mark Cerny topic, but there still seems to be handwringing over the clarity of Sony's message, so I believe this needs illumination.

The above suggests the only scenario left is this: Either what Sony is saying is 100% true and no online connection is ever required whatsoever to use PS4, or everyone at Sony is in on the big lie.

Stay tuned to E3 for finality, but I think this OP should make a lot of people feel better!

It coming from people that are mostly looking a justification so they can buy into Microsoft bullshit.

"WELL SONY IS DOING IT TOO! "

They're the same people were forecasting that Sony would start charging for on-line multi-player this gen. It so they can feel a little bet better for letting Microsoft rip them off.

H_Prestige · May 31, 2013

Amir0x said:
haha H_Prestige is just going all-in hard on the biting sarcasm. Trust me, he does not support Xbox One's draconian anti-consumer policies

Man, if we're having these kinds of threads now, imagine what we will be seeing next week.

Amir0x · May 31, 2013

bishoptl said:
No.

I know this must be some of the most wonderfully entertaining weeks you've had since being a mod, bishoptl. Probably can't stop laughing your ass off at the crazy shit you seen since May 21 lol

Snakeyes · May 31, 2013

To be fair, none of these responses are worded in a way that completely rules out online check-ins and/or authentication.

Brad Grenz · May 31, 2013

googleplex said:
It coming from people that are mostly looking a justification so they can by into Microsoft bullshit.

"WELL SONY IS DOING IT TOO! "

They same people were forecasting that Sony would start charging for on-line multi-player this gen. It so they can feel a little bet better for letting Microsoft rip them off.

Bingo.

GoofsterStud · May 31, 2013

Oersted said:
The same people who are saying PS4 won´t have DRM, are participating in the PS4NoDRM-"movement". Why fighting a fight which is already won?

We are also participating in the NO DRM for Microsoft movement.

Even if we won PS4 that doesn't mean we won PS5. We needs to stand together to do anything to deflect the anti consumer movement.

MightyHedgehog · May 31, 2013

Amir0x said:
31 million Xbox 360 owners never got a Silver or a Gold Xbox account and almost never connected to the internet. The number is similarly high (and higher) on PS3 and Wii.

You can say "the benefits are so great if you connect online", and I agree I like a lot of things online, but there are also times when I don't want anything to do with online.

I'll give you an obvious example, and one I haven't seen mentioned a lot:

There have been several occasions this generation where a game has been patched, but the patch implements things that are worse for the game or introduces a new bug that has not been fixed. Due to this, I will remain offline when I play the game so as not to allow the patch.

Alternatively, sometimes I just shut my internet off for my 360 because I don't want to be bothered at all. I do that frequently. And people should be allowed the freedom to do this, for more than 24 hours at a time.

I get all of that. I also think stating that you won't ever have to go online ever probably won't be realistic and certainly too early to lead people to believe before we have proof and more details. A broad statement can be twisted just as plans can be changed.

xxracerxx said:
If MS only sold XBO to GAF, they would fucking cry.

I would say most modern games across platforms including PC and mobile, not just consoles. After all, Sony is deeply invested in online features or why else would they push that angle so heavily at the PS4 debut? The most popular games on the planet are online-focused.

Mxrz said:
There is a huge damn difference between never going online, and being forced to go online.

We'll see how 'forced' it is when they're out.

animlboogy said:
Kid takes his console to grandma's house for two weeks in the summer.

NeoGAF fighting game super gods get together in a hotel room for several days of endless bouts and also to play fighting games.

You move and it takes a week to get your damn Internet going.

You only use the Internet on your phone, and tethering is too expensive.

Right, that totally happens. However, if they get a new game to put in there, I doubt they'll be able to simply play it without an online phone home to confirm license authentication to the account. I'm just skeptical in the age of online connected everything.

mrklaw said:
Of course we'll all be online. But that isn't the point. The topic is about whether Sony will be implementing no used games or online DRM with Ps4. If they support offline play then by extension they can't rely on an Internet connection and therefore cannot use online based DRM.

I get that. I'm saying that it's unrealistic to just fully believe broad statements before a platform has even been fully revealed and especially if third parties aren't involved in that answer.

Sendou · May 31, 2013

Brad Grenz said:
Only if you are so stupid or biased you refuse to acknowledge very clear policy statements from Sony on the topic.

Very clear policy statements? Hahahahaha

It always comes down to console wars to some of you, doesn't it? Maybe (I know that I'm about to blow your minds here) some just don't care. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Ouya, Valve, Apple or whoever. I don't work for any of them. I just can't make my mind from those statements regarding always connected policy on PS4. Great that some of you seem very certain but I don't count myself amongst them.

rudieboy77 · May 31, 2013

TheLight said:
Bro... This isnt SOMEONE, its multiple people in an aligned company, they cant blatantly lie to people.

So you do not think that a corporation will not lie to people? Is the PS3 being sold right now backwards compatible?

Hot Coldman · May 31, 2013

Haunted said:
It's almost like Sony is expressing interest in a market outside of the US.

At this point in time they appear (on the outside at least) to have gotten their balance of Eastern, US and UK power close to PS1 levels again, so that's no surprise. Cerny's to the left of me, House is to the right- here I am, stuck in the middle with Shu...

Dark Octave · May 31, 2013

None of this matters when 99% of all of us here WILL be connected to the internet 24/7.

benny_a · May 31, 2013

Snakeyes said:
To be fair, none of these responses are worded in a way that completely rules out online check-ins and/or authentication.

I think this one by Michael Denny is:
"PlayStation 4 can still be enjoyed old school without an Internet connection at all."

Given that MS has employed some absurd doublespeak, Sony needs to be crystal clear about their statements as everything can be twisted now and words are apparently meaningless nowadays.

koryuken · May 31, 2013

Sendou said:
Very clear policy statements? Hahahahaha

MS PR Firm or troll?

TacticalFox88 · May 31, 2013

I just realized something....

What's going to happen to this forum if all of the rumored Betrayaltons and Megatons follow through?

This forum will be a gold mine

a Master Ninja · May 31, 2013

I won't believe any statements about DRM or online requirements for the PS4 or Xbox One until they are released.

Calibus · May 31, 2013

This news pleases me greatly. Sony is really coming out swinging this upcoming gen.

Brad Grenz · May 31, 2013

Snakeyes said:
To be fair, none of these responses are worded in a way that completely rules out online check-ins and/or authentication.

PlayStation 4 can still be enjoyed old school without an Internet connection at all.

QED

Krisprolls · May 31, 2013

Sweet Aunt Nancys Panties said:
This is a weird argument. If I'm required to connect to the internet once a day, then I might as well be forced to be connected 24/7, because it still translates into me not being able to take my Xbox on military deployment, on vacation, to Europe etc etc. IMO Microsoft will alter the time limit from 24 hours to something more reasonable like a month.

Well you can go on vacation with your Xbone, you just have to go back home once a day.

Not a big deal actually.

H_Prestige · May 31, 2013

Me said:
Even when there's no way left to spin, you can always say they're lying!

rudieboy77 said:
So you do not think that a corporation will not lie to people? Is the PS3 being sold right now backwards compatible?

And there it is!

mangochutney · May 31, 2013

Koren said:
The DRM existed before the Internet (remember those one-use floppies, or serial dongles? Granted, floppies were mostly inefficient)...

And prepaid phone cards are mostly DRM devices...

I don't see why you couldn't have DRM without a connection. You just have to put a hardware thingy that is flagged with your account when you use the game for the first time, and is require for any further installation.

I would be REALLY complex to create a DRM that would allow game sharing on consoles you own but not resale without online connexions at all (and probably not perfect), but it could be done technically.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20130007892.pdf

This method they patented is completely offline.

nib95 · May 31, 2013

benny_a said:
I think this one by Michael Denny is:
"PlayStation 4 can still be enjoyed old school without an Internet connection at all."

Given that MS has employed some absurd doublespeak, Sony needs to be crystal clear about their statements as everything can be twisted now and words are apparently meaningless nowadays.

Don't know how you can get clearer than what Michael said.

LowParry · May 31, 2013

Sure is a bloodbath in here. I'm just waiting for E3 for any sort of confirmation of anything at this point with either console (Getting a PS4 regardless, kill me now).

Stone Ocean · May 31, 2013

TacticalFox88 said:
I just realized something....

What's going to happen to this forum if all of the rumored Betrayaltons and Megatons follow through?

This forum will be a gold mine

Shit will look like a fucking Game of Thrones episode.

IonicSnake · May 31, 2013

Sendou said:
Like I have stated many times. You are comparing statements from different time periods. With XBONE we know about it's online. We know that XBOX Gold still exist. We know of DRM. We even know in-depth details about their XBOX Gold deal going to this generation.

Do we really know these details about PS4? Or could it be that statements regarding these two consoles aren't completely comparable? Because officially they have talked in detail about different aspects. For example Sony has been pretty in-depth about their indie program. Microsoft (if they're having one that is) haven't been so generous with details on the subject so far. So that's why I wouldn't compare these aspects just yet.

Comparing statements from different time periods?

Sony made that statement after they revealed the PS4 in a interview.

MS made that statement after they revealed the Xbox One in a FAQ.

Unless Sony is flat out lying, the PS4 doesn't require an internet connection at all, the Xbox One does require an internet connection but it doesn't have to be connected all the time.

Drachma · May 31, 2013

Seems to me they'll probably just do some half hearted "DRM" style shit like they do on Vita. That shit is more a minor annoyance than anything so I could live with it on PS4 if I really had to.

TheLight · May 31, 2013

rudieboy77 said:
So you do not think that a corporation will not lie to people? Is the PS3 being sold right now backwards compatible?

I don't think they CAN because it falls into false advertising if they say a system has or lacks something and it doesnt have or lack those things.

The PS3 was backwards compatible, but no it isnt right now. They dont advertise that anymore.

iNvid02 · May 31, 2013

gaf found the ecstasy on may 21st and just ate the whole fucking bag

SirIgbyCeaser · May 31, 2013

Koren said:
The DRM existed before the Internet (remember those one-use floppies, or serial dongles? Granted, floppies were mostly inefficient)...

And prepaid phone cards are mostly DRM devices...

I don't see why you couldn't have DRM without a connection. You just have to put a hardware thingy that is flagged with your account when you use the game for the first time, and is require for any further installation.

I would be REALLY complex to create a DRM that would allow game sharing on consoles you own but not resale without online connexions at all (and probably not perfect), but it could be done technically.

Prepaid phone cards are not an example. Those are connected to a cellular network , once the code is input it's added to your phone account and from then on invalid to anybody else who inputs it.

Sony is unlikely to put 3G or other cellular networks on their system.

It could be done by tying new discs via NFC. I suggested making a new thread ages ago each game box could be made unique a sensor embedded into the plastic.

But this is unlikely, because in the end this will only hurt the consumers.

Ricky_R · May 31, 2013

The ban hammer is having early warm-ups... Should be pretty in shape by E3.

Amir0x · May 31, 2013

MightyHedgehog said:
I get all of that. I also think stating that you won't ever have to go online ever probably won't be realistic and certainly too early to lead people to believe before we have proof and more details. A broad statement can be twisted just as plans can be changed.

That's perfectly respectable. As long as we can all agree that these statements are so clear that IF Sony is telling the truth, it almost certainly means the PS4 does not require an internet connection whatsoever.

The probable exception will be this - there will be individual games from some publishers that must connect to the internet for their DRM policies, and Sony will allow that. And in this case, that's still fine by me, because what it means is I can actively support the publishers/devs that don't use DRM, and give the middle finger to the ones that do.

As long as the system itself does require it for games, there will be plenty of publishers and devs who see the benefits of not fucking consumers with draconian DRM measures. Not all pubs/devs hate consumers.

Sendou said:
Very clear policy statements? Hahahahaha

Have you ever wondered why you're laughing essentially alone? Just wonder if you're at all self-aware.

Paper Sparrow · May 31, 2013

MightyHedgehog said:
Seriously, though, who is on this forum is never going to go online with the next-gen systems? You'd be throwing half or more of the next-gen value proposition away by not connecting.

I go to college, so I can't connect my console to the internet. To get updates, DLC, etc. I have to wait until I go home for the summer.

Oersted · May 31, 2013

GoofsterStud said:
We are also participating in the NO DRM for Microsoft movement.

Even if we won PS4 that doesn't mean we won PS5. We needs to stand together to do anything to deflect the anti consumer movement.

Thats my point. For Xbox One there is obviously a reason to fight. But PS4?

animlboogy said:
DRM doesn't begin and end with Internet connections.

So what is it exactly you are fighting for regarding PS4? I´m seriously curious.

Cromat · May 31, 2013

TacticalFox88 said:
I just realized something....

What's going to happen to this forum if all of the rumored Betrayaltons and Megatons follow through?

This forum will be a gold mine

Like what? Haven't been following the rumors.

Llyrwenne · May 31, 2013

So everybody just keeps ignoring this bit from a Kotaku article;

More relief... At a roundtable this morning, Sony's game studios chief, Shuhei Yoshida, told reporters that any requirement for users to register a game online in order to play it would be left to game publishers. Sony won't require that.

This pretty much confirms no mandatory internet-connection-check-based (yes, I made that word up) DRM forced by hardware. Stop ignoring this quote. Please.

PolarGamer · May 31, 2013

Sendou said:
PS4 Eye sees from your eyes when you are displeased with the game and scratches the disk immediately to prevent you from trading it in.

Actually I should patent this shit the first chance I get.

Funniest post of the day. You just won the thread.

Sendou · May 31, 2013

Amir0x said:
Have you ever wondered why you're laughing essentially alone? Just wonder if you're at all self-aware.

Well I'm not sure if you find this surprising but I'm not really laughing at all. "Hahahaha" is just one way to say "I happen to disagree with what you said. You may even find the reasons if you happen to look at one of the ten posts you can witness above"

Amir0x · May 31, 2013

Cromat said:
Like what? Haven't been following the rumors.

So far

Xbox One ->

League of Legends
Titan
Mirror's Edge 2
Dead Rising
Insomniac new IP exclusive

PS4 ->

FFXIII Versus turns into FFXV, exclusive
Diablo III
????

Sendou said:
Well I'm not sure if you find this surprising but I'm not really laughing at all. "Hahahaha" is just one way to say "I happen to disagree with what you said. You may even find the reasons if you happen to look at one of the ten posts you can witness above"

Well my comment can still be applied: do you ever wonder why virtually everyone disagrees with your assessment? Can it be just that the statements are, in fact, extremely clear? Maybe you're just wrong?

I mean I have no problem with skepticism and cynicism, I'm king of this stuff, but in this case, unless they're straight up lying, I think we are right here.

quickwhips · May 31, 2013

They put a share button on this controller from the factory not a setting in the interface but a button on the control. Cerny message makes it seem iffy. E3 will be the answer and I hope that guy gets some sleep before then because damn those eyes. Even if it has DRM or online requirement like xbox who cares. Games Games Games.

meppi · May 31, 2013

Dark Octave said:
None of this matters when 99% of all of us here WILL be connected to the internet 24/7.

The only situation where it doesn't matter is when you use your games in a fast food kinda way. Dropping them as soon as something new is out.
For a lot of people this isn't the case and we are looking forward to keep playing our games in 10 or 20 years time.

rudieboy77 · May 31, 2013

H_Prestige said:
And there it is!

I'm not spinning or making excuses for anything, I do not care if the PS4 is or is not always online. I have seen way too many people claim one thing, then turn around and do the opposite.

Ricky_R · May 31, 2013

Sendou said:
Well I'm not sure if you find this surprising but I'm not really laughing at all. "Hahahaha" is just one way to say "I happen to disagree with what you said. You may even find the reasons if you happen to look at one of the ten posts you can witness above"

Then why not write that you disagree, instead of disahahahahagreeing?

MightyHedgehog · May 31, 2013

Paper Sparrow said:
I go to college, so I can't connect my console to the internet. To get updates, DLC, etc. I have to wait until I go home for the summer.

Right. With today's consoles, you can mostly do that. My thing is that I don't see reason to fully swallow down that answer hook, line, and sinker. It's just too early to take things at face value considering the history of these corporations and the lack of answers from third parties who may well have no reason to follow through.

koryuken · May 31, 2013

Sendou said:
Well I'm not sure if you find this surprising but I'm not really laughing at all. "Hahahaha" is just one way to say "I happen to disagree with what you said. You may even find the reasons if you happen to look at one of the ten posts you can witness above"

gutter_trash · May 31, 2013

so this confirms that Fighting Game Community will go PS4

TheLight · May 31, 2013

Ricky_R said:
Then why not write that you disagree, instead of disahahahahagreeing?

That makes too much sense.

GoofsterStud · May 31, 2013

rudieboy77 said:
I'm not spinning or making excuses for anything, I do not care if the PS4 is or is not always online. I have seen way too many people claim one thing, then turn around and do the opposite.

Sounds like you have played one to many Fables.

Sendou · May 31, 2013

Ricky_R said:
Then why not write that you disagree??

I found it poetic way to represent my inability to pass my message ahead.

EDIT: Um, you did read the whole conversation? Or what I'm trying to say here, right?

Amir0x said:
Well my comment can still be applied: do you ever wonder why virtually everyone disagrees with your assessment? Can it be just that the statements are, in fact, extremely clear? Maybe you're just wrong?

I mean I have no problem with skepticism and cynicism, I'm king of this stuff, but in this case, unless they're straight up lying, I think we are right here.

Some general beliefs are just wrong. Believe me when I say that cynicism is in place even if you happen to be the only skepticist around. And even then I guess I'm not. Or did I dream all that #PS4noDRM stuff last week?

Copenap · May 31, 2013

nib95 said:
Don't know how you can get clearer than what Michael said.

Maybe by adding "time" at the end of the sentence? Could also mean that only after doing the online check-in I can use it oldschool with no internet connection at all, no? Weirder statements have been made. Anyways, I just wait for E3 and hope for the best.

FalsettoVibe · May 31, 2013

We are driving ourselves crazy......lol

xxracerxx · May 31, 2013

MightyHedgehog said:
xxracerxx said:

If MS only sold XBO to GAF, they would fucking cry.

Click to expand...

I would say most modern games across platforms including PC and mobile, not just consoles. After all, Sony is deeply invested in online features or why else would they push that angle so heavily at the PS4 debut? The most popular games on the planet are online-focused.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

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