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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread

That's like, life, man.
Everyone I come across I just mentally check off whether I'm gonna fuck or kill, and so far I'm on the pacifist route. Meet me somewhere.

Haha it legit deletes your save data. Oh well.
I didn't even do the cheese thing of backing my save up somewhere, I commit.

But it does put a damper on the DLC now I suppose. It must really suck for people sharing a system and using multiple save slots for one another. Now that's a real fuck or kill moment once the first person hits E.
 

EdmondD

Member
Throughout the game there are several android couples. Androids can definitely feel love and lust towards each other. Can they have sex? I'm not sure but it would not surprise me if they could. Even the robots were trying to bone each other lol.

I think the "kill" or "fuck" thing is interchangeable. Sometimes he wants to fuck her and sometimes he wants to kill her.
 

Squire

Banned
Throughout the game there are several android couples. Androids can definitely feel love and lust towards each other. Can they have sex? I'm not sure but it would not surprise me if they could. Even the robots were trying to bone each other lol.

I think the "kill" or "fuck" thing is interchangeable. Sometimes he wants to fuck her and sometimes he wants to kill her.

They can definitely have sex. They've got their sex organs after all.
 
Taro doesn't really shy away from sex as a motivator or emotional desire.

He also seems to believe it's just, like, a thing that happens. He seems genuinely kind of baffled when games get praise for handling sex well or criticism for handling it badly, as if sex should be a thing games are still notable for handling at all.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
He seems to view that for non straight characters too.

Like weirdly enough nier handled gay characters way better than persona 5.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
3 didn't even really deal with the issue really, or at least I can't remember it talk about any homosexual characters at all?

So at least it's better than fucking Yosuke and the 2 weird gay predators in 5.
 
He sends to view that for non straight characters too.

Like weirdly enough nier handled gay characters way better than persona 5.

Remind me of who the gay characters were again? Now that you mentioned it I know that they were in there but it was handled in such a normalized fashion that it didn't even stand out.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I... honestly can't remember any gay stuff in that scene. Just your usual dumb teens being bad at picking up people.

Remind me of who the gay characters were again? Now that you mentioned it I know that they were in there but it was handled in such a normalized fashion that it didn't even stand out.

Emil is gay. 6O is pretty gay.
 

Golnei

Member
Remind me of who the gay characters were again? Now that you mentioned it I know that they were in there but it was handled in such a normalized fashion that it didn't even stand out.

As well as Emil and 6O, there was 11B and her ex-girlfriend. I've seen A2 and No. 4 treated as a couple as well, but to my knowledge the game only calls her a "companion". She does call A2 her reason for living, and she goes batshit when she dies, but I don't think there's an actual confirmation of them being more than friends.

Emil is gay. 6O is pretty gay.

tumblr_oosydn0MgE1rf89f4o1_500.jpg


I don't know if Androids have genders, really.

Everyone seems inherently bi, regardless.

Given how closely the androids were made in the image of humans - to the point of some model lines directly being implanted with synthetic human memories - I think it's plausible that they'd identify with human-like gender identities and sexual orientations. The Replicants would be a good example here - they were programmed as sterile shells, but once they gained sentience of their own, they were pretty much indistinguishable from humans, including paying underage boys for sex.
 

LotusHD

Banned
He sends to view that for non straight characters too.

Like weirdly enough nier handled gay characters way better than persona 5.

Not weird at all judging from the first game regarding Emil. And in this game he's the same person that made Eve a boy, criticized beauty standards through Simone, etc. And based off of other people who've played some of the previous Persona games, there was no real reason to assume they'd do an amazing job all of a sudden.

That being said, I was shocked regarding P5's stereotypical gay characters, it was so archaic and pointless.

---

Speaking of P5, there's this moment where this villain is literally telling me to shut up x3, and the first thing that immediately came to mind is "9S did it better"
 
Not weird at all judging from the first game regarding Emil. And in this game he's the same person that made Eve a boy, criticized beauty standards through Simone, etc. And based off of other people who've played some of the previous Persona games, there was no real reason to assume they'd do an amazing job all of a sudden.

That being said, I was shocked regarding P5's stereotypical gay characters, it was so archaic and pointless.

---

Speaking of P5, there's this moment where this villain is literally telling me to shut up x3, and the first thing that immediately came to mind is "9S did it better"

There's a a difference between written a character who is gay and writing a character whose only character is being gay. It's why I give props to Yoko taro because you can describe all his gay characters with a range of personality traits whereas some characters such as persona 5 are one note character.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNjJ8skeG1g&t=3s

Pretty cool video talking about how yoko taro uses our experiences as gamers in order to convey meaning and subvert expectations even in the narrative. I slightly disagree that he subverts expectations mostly through videogame devices, as there are a lot of commentary on the wider human society also.

Liking that more analysis pieces are starting to come out.
 

Gbraga

Member
Right, but what good is it thinking that 9S wants to fuck 2B? It frames it as a really goofy out of nowhere anime perv scene. With it being upfront and seeing what Adam is actually prying into with 9S, it makes it more intriguing from the start and I think would make for even more interest in delving into route B.

Zero tells Decadus to clean front and rear because she'll be visiting him that night. Implying the word "fuck" has been said is far from being a goofy out of nowhere anime perv scene. It's just sex.

I think we can, but in that instance we're Mad Libbing in a verb, and the two candidates used here are expressing opposite intense emotions, but in terms of execution I think that the way it leaves things vague does not benefit the moment. There's nothing subtle about how affectionate 9S comes across to 2B in route A, so having it shown upfront would be an unnerving curveball, especially in light of the happily ever after A ending.

And yes, this is what would make the interaction between 9S and Adam more interesting in that respect as well, because it's him fucking with 9S, so you see him confronting those feelings for what they are.

They're not that opposite, actually. In Jackass' questline you learn that YoRHa units were designed so that they feel pleasure in combat, and an emotion similar to human love. It even ties into how much fighting looks like dancing in the animations.

Their feelings are complicated, to say the least.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
welp... Ending E just killed any chance of me replaying this game, i thought it was going to delete only the save slot i was using not all three of them...


Hot takes:
9S is an idiot that deserves death.
2B is a saint.
A2 is kinda generic.
Poor poor Pascal... he did nothing wrong... the game has been incredibly mean to him and his people... all those flag waving machines... I've never been as emotionally touched with a game a when Pascal brought the babies in the old factory with all of them questioning what "dying" means, if they were going to see their mothers again and the overall desperation in their faces... closest i've come to crying because of a videogame.
 

kewlmyc

Member
3 didn't even really deal with the issue really, or at least I can't remember it talk about any homosexual characters at all?

So at least it's better than fucking Yosuke and the 2 weird gay predators in 5.

During the beach scene, one of the ladies you hit on is implied to be a man/transgendered and when the guys find out, she says "shame, I was so close to snagging some boytoys to play with" or something to that effect. Kinda fucked up. I would say it's a product of its time, but P4G and P5 just double down it.

Adam and Eve are biomachines, not androids

You figure their bodies would be near the same considering they share the same core. I thought that was the point of Adam and Eve's appearance.
 

Squire

Banned
Do they? Adam and Eve didn't. Or was that for censorship reasons? Can't tell with Yoko Taro.

They do. When you self destruct with 9S you can see his bulge.

As for Adam/Eve... eh. I'm not that surprised the better imitation of humanity was built by humanity itself rather than aliens.
 

Golnei

Member
As for Adam/Eve... eh. I'm not that surprised the better imitation of humanity was built by humanity itself rather than aliens.

It's a pretty conspicuous absence - in-universe, if they forgot the genitals, they should have gotten many other details visibly wrong.

I'm kind of disappointed they didn't at least try to make them anatomically correct - even putting a censor box there would have had more of an effect than a blank crotch, and it wouldn't have affected the game's rating even in Japan. And for the PC version, there would have been nothing stopping them from just showing it.
 
Damn, Emil's Determination is one hell of a finale to his story arc. Even being one of a potentially infinite amount of clones, in the end he still got all his memories back.

Doesn't Emil mention "him" somewhere during his sidequest in automata. Doesn't make sense following Ending D
since no one should remember Nier since he was erased.

Which leads me to coming back to this again, after the fight he mentions caring for the world that his friend tried to protect, so he definitely remembers Nier somehow. He's not talking about Kaine, since he specifically mentions her by name in the sentence before that.
 
Zero tells Decadus to clean front and rear because she'll be visiting him that night. Implying the word "fuck" has been said is far from being a goofy out of nowhere anime perv scene. It's just sex.

They're not that opposite, actually. In Jackass' questline you learn that YoRHa units were designed so that they feel pleasure in combat, and an emotion similar to human love. It even ties into how much fighting looks like dancing in the animations.

Their feelings are complicated, to say the least.
It's more that taking the scene to interpret that way on first pass feels like one because here's the deal, 2B is made to look like an adult woman, 9S is looking pubescent. There's clear feelings for one another but having the moment read off as Adam being a guy trying to embarrass a kid about his thirst is one that is less coming off as privy to the nature of their actual relationship and more of "HUHU SHES PRETTY HOT HUH BET YOU WANNA FUCK" y'know? And so, alright, whatever I guess. Didn't end up having the gravitas it would have for me otherwise.
 
It's more that taking the scene to interpret that way on first pass feels like one because here's the deal, 2B is made to look like an adult woman, 9S is looking pubescent. There's clear feelings for one another but having the moment read off as Adam being a guy trying to embarrass a kid about his thirst is one that is less coming off as privy to the nature of their actual relationship and more of "HUHU SHES PRETTY HOT HUH BET YOU WANNA FUCK" y'know? And so, alright, whatever I guess. Didn't end up having the gravitas it would have for me otherwise.
I don't think Adam was trying to embarrass 9S. He was obsessed with humanity, and wanted to awaken that humanity in 9S so he could observe and savor it.
 
I think that's fine and well but the obfuscation of it just makes the first go around seem sophomoric to that end, and it's something that I imagine most playing would just stick to that initial impression.
 

Squire

Banned
I definitely disagree that 9S looks flat-out pre-pubescent. I'd say the same for 2B. They both look (and act) like older teens.

Like, where's this even come from? Her being taller than him? (In heels, no less.)
 

Golnei

Member
The costume does help him look younger, but his features are still quite a bit more neotenous - not prepubescent, but like 14-17.

In human terms, 2B/A2 could pass for late teens at the absolute youngest; but I tend to default to interpreting them as older. The Scanners all look distinctly younger in either case.

Of course, actual literal age is immaterial when discussing androids; but 9S's apparent "youth" is deliberately highlighted by the narrative and accentuated by his design, so it's present at a visual and thematic level, at least.
 
I definitely disagree that 9S looks flat-out pre-pubescent. I'd say the same for 2B. They both look (and act) like older teens.

Like, where's this even come from? Her being taller than him? (In heels, no less.)
I said pubescent, not pre. And it's coming from him looking like a young teen. Reverse the age appearances of the two and it would definitely rub people the wrong way.
 
I said pubescent, not pre. And it's coming from him looking like a young teen. Reverse the age appearances of the two and it would definitely rub people the wrong way.
I think they're supposed to be within a year of each other, but yeah, given that 9S was very obviously designed to appear much younger(those stereotypical Japanese schoolboy shorts), I think the game would have been received quite differently if their genders were swapped.
 

Squire

Banned
I said pubescent, not pre. And it's coming from him looking like a young teen. Reverse the age appearances of the two and it would definitely rub people the wrong way.

Maybe. Like, that's a weird hypothetical to float because we'd be talking about the same character not just looking younger, but in the same outfit (heels, leotard, flowing skirt) right? So yeah.
 

Gbraga

Member
It would rub people the wrong way, but because if all you change is their appearance, it looks predatory as fuck for the entirety of route A, not just because of them being a couple.

The first impression is "9S has the hots for 2B but she doesn't really care", that would be all kinds of wrong if 2B looked younger and 9S older.

A lot of their relationship is constructed in a way to make it more acceptable, especially in Route A when you lack context. Even if you don't swap their ages, having 2B all over 9S, calling him Nines while he insisted in being called 9S and kept his distance would already be enough to bother people. It would certainly be even worse if he was the older one, but having an older person wanting to fuck a younger one who doesn't really seem to want it is already off putting by itself, even if the man is not the older one.

By the time you learn how 2B feels, you're already invested enough into the world and narrative to look past it, not to mention the tragedy of it all makes people not think too much about the logistics.
 

EdmondD

Member
Damn, Emil's Determination is one hell of a finale to his story arc. Even being one of a potentially infinite amount of clones, in the end he still got all his memories back.



Which leads me to coming back to this again, after the fight he mentions caring for the world that his friend tried to protect, so he definitely remembers Nier somehow. He's not talking about Kaine, since he specifically mentions her by name in the sentence before that.
Yeah when he says "... because this is the world my friend tried to save!" and his voice starts cracking. Holy crap so powerful. I watched it again on youtube and I just kept replaying that part. I honestly think it might be the best voice acting I ever heard in a game. I think I need to watch it again right now.
It doesn't have to be the same outfit. Don't think the boy shorts would fly on an older looking Nines really.

Edit: ⬇ Oh man! Haha

ZOPmi0t.png

Rugged 9S is the shit.
 

LotusHD

Banned
https://planckstorytime.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/nier-automata-analysis/

Another essay on the game. Well written but not super ground breaking, but I did learn about the meaning behind ko-shi and ro-shi's

Another good read to save for others.


He has seemingly made it his life’s goal to prove wrong all of my initial dismissals of the artistic potential in games.

Heh, classic Taro

I'm almost done with persona 5 and so far Nier is still my goty.

Same.
 

PBalfredo

Member
https://planckstorytime.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/nier-automata-analysis/

Another essay on the game. Well written but not super ground breaking, but I did learn about the meaning behind ko-shi and ro-shi's

Fantastic article. I think it nails how Drakengard, NieR and Automata all address the topic of violence in different ways, all while staying true to what the gameplay asks of the player.

However, there is one part of the article that I disagree with

Video games have often been described as power fantasies, and I posit that the opportunity to be a larger-than-life hero contributes to this phenomenon. Nier is certainly devoted to his daughter's well-being, but rather than stay at home and comfort her as she suffers from a terminal illness, he jumps at the opportunity to embark on a wacky adventure to find a cure, accompanied by his magical talking book. Nier is easily manipulated into his journey by a bogus prophecy contrived by Devola and Popola, his long-time friends and hidden agents of the Shadowlord. Throughout the game, loading screens convey letters from Nier's sickly daughter, praying for him to come home and spend time with her. After the Shadowlord's defeat, her illness isn't even cured. The only thing Nier wins from his adventure is the downfall of humanity. Nier's heroism contains a component of egotism, as does any player's.

My reading of Nier's character doesn't jive with this. While he does bond with his traveling companions over the course of the game, at no point does he relish in the adventure or reveal in the conflict against shades. Everything he does is a means to an end, with the soul goal being to save Yonah. At worst, his struggles could be characterized as grasping for any vain opportunity to be proactive about Yonah's condition, least the alternative being to helplessly watch her waste away. But leaving Yonah behind because he wants to play hero in the same way the player would want to engage in a power fantasy? No. Papa Nier would just as willingly jump into a pit of rusty syringes if doing so would cure Yonah.
 
I'm almost done with persona 5 and so far Nier is still my goty.

Luckily I don't have to choose between the two for GOTY, Persona 5 came out in 2016 after all. Nier would definitely win that showdown.

It sort of saddens me that most people won't even bother touching this game, when it is a masterclass in how storytelling in videogames should be done, I'm tired of games that tell their stories by trying to emulate movies.
 
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