Thunderbear said:

This can never be repeated enough... It's a simple perception flaw to group a large amount of people's voices into one and judge it as such. Unfortunately that's not just limited to online communities.

Having said that, some forums will attract more of a certain type of person depending on a wide variety of factors so there might be a very slight larger group of people that share similar views than if you took a random group of people of equal size in the world.

There's definitely a lot of strong reactions in here though... If these loud-voiced gamers weren't so negative and prone to judging this screw-up wouldn't have been such a big deal. And when ME3 comes around and the sales come in, it might turn out that it really didn't matter all that much.

People complaining about choice:

- As a developer you have to take into account both new-comers and people who have played the previous title(s).

- There's only so much content you can develop in 2 years. Building consequences for two major different outcomes would result in a massive amount of double work. I don't think they did a bad job with ME2 but maybe they shouldn't have allowed you to make such massively different choices in ME1?

- In most games, unless there's a lot of different endings (usually there's one, two at the most with some rare exceptions) your choices are going to be pretty meaningless. To me, Bioshock is a perfect example of this. Choices in games are mostly an illusion.

There might come a time when things can be procedurally generated in a natural way to allow for lots of different out comes that can then carry over to a sequel but then you'd most likely loose a strong, human-written, narrative.

Anyway I ended up writing more than I thought I would and more than people will probably read.

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bhlaab said:

SOLUTION: developers should not promise things they cannot deliver on.

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Acheron said:

So where do I get my hands on these sweet, sweet spoilers?

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shagg_187 said:

There is a private website with a search database of all the content on the internet. It's called google. I heard it's amazing!

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Acheron said:

Well dipshit those Microsoft lawyers also know about Google. It's a bit harder than that.

Either be helpful or what's the fucking point?

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shagg_187 said:

You live in Toronto? Alright. I'll give you coordinates on where to meet up. Outside CN Tower tomorrow night at 9pm. There will be a parcel that'll say "dipshit".

Make sure no Microsoft lawyer is following. They know about CN Tower and it's a bit harder than that.

Further instructions after you receive the parcel.





Oh wait. You want the fucking point. Here's the fucking point for you: READ the first sentence of the first page of the thread before you start attacking me.

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Acheron said:

Did I ask you "post the spoilers"? No, I did not. If you want to PM them or their location, do so. If not, then don't. I really don't give a shit what you do. But your flip little "google" remark is pretty useless either way.

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Thunder Monkey said:

But without sky high promises and $50 million dollar development how would we know what the GotY is going to be?

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shagg_187 said:

Oh man.

"So where do I get my hands on these sweet, sweet spoilers?"

Clearly, you don't want any spoilers, yet you want spoilers? :lol

Instead of PM-ing you the location, I'll tell you straight up: Google it! I just did and it took me less than ten seconds to find the right link with the right choice of words.

Please refrain from using such language towards me especially when I'm helping you with your needs. Good night.

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bhlaab said:

Considering that they are the ones who decide what the goty will be I don't think it matters!

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OatmealMu said:

Guys, guys, guys! Don't tear each others' heads off. If you need to get mad at anyone, get mad at me. I can take it and won't fight back.

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Thunder Monkey said:

But without sky high promises and $50 million dollar development how would we know what the GotY is going to be?

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Acheron said:

Rather amazingly my posts on public forums are not beacons for you, shag_187, to impart useless advice. I'm asking the community for some assistance because again amazingly I joined a video game forum to occasionally get video game info. Once again if you don't want to help, don't. But don't give me shit and then start trying to sell it as anything but a sarcastic dismissal. I'm done with this.

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Thunderbear said:

This can never be repeated enough... It's a simple perception flaw to group a large amount of people's voices into one and judge it as such. Unfortunately that's not just limited to online communities.

Having said that, some forums will attract more of a certain type of person depending on a wide variety of factors so there might be a very slight larger group of people that share similar views than if you took a random group of people of equal size in the world.

There's definitely a lot of strong reactions in here though... If these loud-voiced gamers weren't so negative and prone to judging this screw-up wouldn't have been such a big deal. And when ME3 comes around and the sales come in, it might turn out that it really didn't matter all that much.

People complaining about choice:

- As a developer you have to take into account both new-comers and people who have played the previous title(s).

- There's only so much content you can develop in 2 years. Building consequences for two major different outcomes would result in a massive amount of double work. I don't think they did a bad job with ME2 but maybe they shouldn't have allowed you to make such massively different choices in ME1?

- In most games, unless there's a lot of different endings (usually there's one, two at the most with some rare exceptions) your choices are going to be pretty meaningless. To me, Bioshock is a perfect example of this. Choices in games are mostly an illusion.

There might come a time when things can be procedurally generated in a natural way to allow for lots of different out comes that can then carry over to a sequel but then you'd most likely loose a strong, human-written, narrative.

Anyway I ended up writing more than I thought I would and more than people will probably read.

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Septimius said:

Then you have the whole problem of Aarseth and the whole gang claiming that this actually isn't a narrative. I think Aarseth's elevator test can go die in a fire. But that's getting off topic.

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Eurogamer article said:

The leaked script generated much debate among fans, and it is this feedback that BioWare may use to tweak the story ahead of the game's 2012 launch.

"We listen to our fans all of the time," Muzyka continued. "We listen to them on the forums, their feedback from stories. We're reading it all. If we can get ideas out of it that will make the game better, sure. We're not adverse to taking feedback. That's part of our core values, is humility. Any time we get a good idea from fans... they're our audience. They keep us in business."

Muzyka reiterated the statement BioWare released when the leak occurred, and insisted Mass Effect 3's story was still in flux - but noted the impact on the development team.

"It was disappointing for them, yeah. They're moving on. They're making a great game. The script, frankly, has changed a little bit from what was released, too. It's been edited. They're always tuning it. They're always making it better. But yeah, it's tough when you see your work displayed. You realise only a small number of people are probably going to look at those spoilers in advance.

"It is hard on a team when they see their work revealed in an early form like that. It was a pre-release demo. The script was certainly not intended to be released in that form and that early. Here it is! It's not even out yet, but you can read through it. It's a summary.

"But they're going to get through it because they're a strong group. They really care about delivering a great game to the fans. They're committed to making this the best Mass Effect."
Muzyka urged the fans to stay clear of story spoilers because they script is out of context.
"You edit it continually. It's a living process to build a game and it's also a living experience to play through it. You're seeing the graphics, you're seeing the choices, you're seeing the characters. Words alone on a page, they're not delivered in voice over, they're not delivered in the interface, they're not delivered as your character, with your choices up to that point imbuing them with meaning and purpose and identity, the emotion part of it.

"A lot of the art now in video games is developed in an interesting way where subtle expressions and facial animation, a tilt of the head, the way the camera is positioned, the lighting in a room, they can set the tone and the mood, the sound effects, the layer of audio that's put over the top of a scene, that stuff is really important.

"What I would suggest to the fans is, we're going to make sure we deliver an awesome experience as we have in prior Mass Effect games. Don't spoil the story. The fun of the story is uncovering things and exploring and finding new points to adventure in. I hope they don't lose that joy of discovery."

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Lime said:

You in the academic field? I'd love to hear your thoughts on Aarseth's elevator test of what demarcates a narrative. From what I have gathered during the last couple of months, Abbott's definition as 'the representation of an event or a series of events' seems like a sufficient demarcation.

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