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MS eliminates its best new feature: 10 person, 60 min Family Sharing plan for Xbone

C

Camp Freddie

Member
If family sharing was some great feature, then MS didn't have to cut it.
They COULD have said: "Due to feedback, we've decided physical copies can be played offline with disc activation. All the other benefits, like family sharing will still work - but obviously you'll need to be online to share games online. XBone now offers a great experience for everyone".

They decided to scrap what was supposed to be their "killer app" for no apparent reason. No one was complaining about family sharing. All we wanted to know was how it would work.

I strongly suspect that MS didn't think of family sharing as a big deal until people started saying, "Wait, so my 10 friends only need to buy copies equal to 10/(# of simultaneosus players). Are you sure, because (# of simultaneous players) tends to be 1 or 2 unless it's CoD or Halo, so you're going to sell a lot less games?"

Either family sharing was going to work as MS implied, in which case they'd sell a LOT fewer games...or there was going to be a huge catch, like it only being a 1 hour demo or that enabling sharing would be set by the publisher.
 
A

amishpriest99

Member
dude819 said:
I hope everyone who whined about "DRM" is happy.

Now we get to live with the status quo rather than moving forward.

You're all heroes.
Click to expand...

I would rather have "progress" occur naturally rather than having it shoved down my throat with a bunch of vague caveats and empty promises.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
quest said:
You need to forget the family share plan it was never going to happen like MS promised at first. No publisher was ever going to sign off on a system were people could have instant access to games they did not pay for. The reason publishers want digital so damn bad is 2 reasons. 1 to get a larger cut of money up front cutting out retail and 2 everyone who plays their game paid them money to do so. Sharing kills number 2.
Click to expand...

You have no proof though. Heck neither do I. But now that we'll never know.
 
M

mightynine

Member
jmdajr said:
Deals are good, but I think it needs more than that. Digital sharing seemed like the next step in convincing people that digital did have certain advantages over physical games.
Click to expand...

Then why didn't Microsoft push that from the first time we saw the Xbox One?

Quit blaming people who wanted the physical copy of the game to actually be their copy. Blame Microsoft for not selling the potential benefits (and for trying to shoehorn it for all game purchases).
 
J

jmdajr

Member
mightynine said:
Then why didn't Microsoft push that from the first time we saw the Xbox One?

Quit blaming people who wanted the physical copy of the game to actually be their copy. Blame Microsoft for not selling the potential benefits (and for trying to shoehorn it for all game purchases).
Click to expand...

I have no idea. But they are definitely to blame. It's not just about the peeps.
 
V

VibratingDonkey

Member
iammeiam said:
The problem with that is that unless you force a disk-check periodically, there's no way to know if the physical copy 'registered' to a digital account has been traded in/given away or not. Since you never have to connect online to play a disc based game, there'd be no way for the disc to tell if it was registered and off-limits and unregistered and okay to play on a new system.
Click to expand...
Yeah you'd need some manner of altering the discs or content on them to make them unusable.

Microsoft has the technology.
xbox_360_scratch_suit.jpg
 
J

John Caboose

Member
Gokurakumaru said:
We know how it works. Nobody is disagreeing with you on the basis they're confused about the XBox One's DRM mechanism.



How is digital not competing with retail? You can't install a retail disc (disadvantage), but you can resell it (advantage). You're assuming everybody values installs the way you do, but they don't. So to the average consumer it's just a game. They can buy it digitally or at a store, so yes, the XBox Marketplace and retail are directly competing. And we saw exactly how that turned out this gen on both Sony and Microsoft's consoles. Publishers don't even both attempting to match retail because there is no incentive to. Retailers have to move stock or they go out of business. There is no such thing as digital distribution stock. It's free and it's infinite. Your assertion this would have changed is pure speculation.
Click to expand...

No no, my point wasn't that I would want to purchase from the MS marketplace beacsuse their prices would be forced to lower.

My point was that I with the old system I would not HAVE to purchase from the MS marketplace to be able to get the digital game. I would be able to get the digital game (albeit by proxy of activating a disc once) from any retailer. Those retailers would have the lower prices.

With this change they will still have the lower prices but I will not get the digital version anymore, only the "please insert your disc to play"-version.

And here are some more "just buy digital" that I tried to address with my last post just a few hours ago...

Stone Ocean said:
You could just, you know, buy fucking digital then.
Click to expand...

Tobor said:
I don't get this argument. You can be 100% digital on PS4 and Xbox one. That hasn't been lost. Everyone now has the option they prefer.
Click to expand...

Again, previously I would have been able to buy digital (by proxy of disc) from ANYWHERE resulting in cheaper prices for me. Now you can ONLY buy digital from the Xbox Store. I literally have ONE price to 'choose' from when buying digital.
 
J

jag0

Member
Can't understand what all the fuss is about. If Microsoft really still sees (or saw in the first place) great value in letting people share games, then they can still implement it. There are LOTS of ways to do it.

1. Want to share a game? Then, you'll be required to have your system register every X days or hours

2. Want to share a game, then you and the person you're sharing with must be a gold+ subscriber

3. Want to share a game? Then you must agree to the terms that if 2 copies of your signed game are running simultaneously multiple times, you will be charged a fee, banned from live, or some other penalty.

See, there are TONS of ways to implement this which may or may not be acceptable to some.

Implementing some of those ridiculous terms they were planning to before wasn't and isn't a requirement for this to work IF Microsoft really wants it to.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
jmdajr said:
You have no proof though. Heck neither do I. But now that we'll never know.
Click to expand...

Experience, past actions and a little bit of critical thinking. Some people need to wait around for the shit to hit the fan or stuff be spoon fed to them, some can see it a mile away. MS and the game industry isn't some newborn baby that we know nothing about.
 
J

jag0

Member
John Caboose said:
Again, previously I would have been able to buy digital (by proxy of disc) from ANYWHERE resulting in cheaper prices for me. Now you can ONLY buy digital from the Xbox Store. I literally have ONE price to 'choose' from when buying digital.
Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly, you're saying you would buy a game from X retailer who would, in essence sell you a Disc, but in stead of actually shipping you a disc, would give you a license to download the digital version? The retailer would they "dispose" of the disc?
 
dorkimoe

dorkimoe

Member
Cant have 1 without the other. Cant just allow sharing now without checking to make sure you arent all playing at the same time. Its fair..no other system would ever do that. Not even PC (well before steam and cd keys)
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
John Caboose said:
No no, my point wasn't that I would want to purchase from the MS marketplace beacsuse their prices would be forced to lower.

My point was that I with the old system I would not HAVE to purchase from the MS marketplace to be able to get the digital game. I would be able to get the digital game (albeit by proxy of activating a disc once) from any retailer. Those retailers would have the lower prices.

With this change they will still have the lower prices but I will not get the digital version anymore, only the "please insert your disc to play"-version.

And here are some more "just buy digital" that I tried to address with my last post just a few hours ago...





Again, previously I would have been able to buy digital (by proxy of disc) from ANYWHERE resulting in cheaper prices for me. Now you can ONLY buy digital from the Xbox Store. I literally have ONE price to 'choose' from when buying digital.
Click to expand...

Ah, having the cake and eating it too.
Maybe next gen.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Ponn01 said:
Experience, past actions and a little bit of critical thinking. Some people need to wait around for the shit to hit the fan or stuff be spoon fed to them, some can see it a mile away. MS and the game industry isn't some newborn baby that we know nothing about.
Click to expand...

I wasn't buying the console day 1, no risk to me. Zero.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
jmdajr said:
I wasn't buying the console day 1, no risk to me. Zero.
Click to expand...

I've said it before, will say it again. Complacency is the worst thing to happen to consumers and gamers. It is what has gotten us to where we are today with day one dlc, lost consumer rights, on disc dlc, horse armor, etc etc.
 
L

LittleJohnny

Banned
nib95 said:
This is such bullshit. The sharing and lending feature wasn't even available at launch, by their own small print. Add to that, we have no idea what restrictions would have been placed, and whichever dolt made this has cleverly forgot to include the fact that the people sharing have to download the game first to be able to play it. Given the expected sizes of next gen games, that doesn't sound too fun.
Click to expand...

It wasn't allowed at launch because your friends needed to be in your list for at least 30 days, not for the reasons you think.

Family share was going to be awesome, getting revenue from used games would've made up for the sharing several times over, it was a small inconvenience for some (not me since I'm always online anyway) but the benefits were amazing, especially not needing to have a physical disc in the drive, sure you can download the game but this was going to allow gamers to image their physical copies...

The future was almost here but gamers scared of change shot it down :(
 
N

nib95

Banned
LittleJohnny said:
It wasn't allowed at launch because your friends needed to be in your list for at least 30 days, not for the reasons you think.
Click to expand...

Again, this is more BS. They clearly stated in the small print the reason it wouldn't be available at launch was because they were still working things out with publishers. You guys need to stop making stuff up to paint the picture to your ideal, especially when the reality is far from it.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
LittleJohnny said:
It wasn't allowed at launch because your friends needed to be in your list for at least 30 days, not for the reasons you think.

Family share was going to be awesome, getting revenue from used games would've made up for the sharing several times over, it was a small inconvenience for some (not me since I'm always online anyway) but the benefits were amazing, especially not needing to have a physical disc in the drive, sure you can download the game but this was going to allow gamers to image their physical copies...

The future was almost here but gamers scared of change shot it down :(
Click to expand...

We don't even really know what it was, but clearly, it was the greatest thing ever!
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Ponn01 said:
I've said it before, will say it again. Complacency is the worst thing to happen to consumers and gamers. It is what has gotten us to where we are today with day one dlc, lost consumer rights, on disc dlc, horse armor, etc etc.
Click to expand...

Maybe because it's just videogames. People have better things to worry about.
 
V

von zipp

Member
After a day of thinking about it, this is totally fucked. From the limited info we had on this feature it sounded pretty decent. Sucks that in order to have no drm, we can't have family sharing.

The Lord giveth, The Lord taketh away, or some such bollocks
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
LittleJohnny said:
It wasn't allowed at launch because your friends needed to be in your list for at least 30 days, not for the reasons you think.

Family share was going to be awesome, getting revenue from used games would've made up for the sharing several times over, it was a small inconvenience for some (not me since I'm always online anyway) but the benefits were amazing, especially not needing to have a physical disc in the drive, sure you can download the game but this was going to allow gamers to image their physical copies...

The future was almost here but gamers scared of change shot it down :(
Click to expand...
You can't possibly believe that.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
von zipp said:
After a day of thinking about it, this is totally fucked. From the limited info we had on this feature it sounded pretty decent. Sucks that in order to have no drm, we can't have family sharing.
Click to expand...

So, is it that Microsoft can't implement family sharing alongside the option of no DRM, or won't? Because, my assumption is that it's the latter. And if that's the case, what does that tell you about the viability of the plan to begin with? If the feature was as great as many think and was going to sell people on the digital future, why not proceed forward anyway and let people opt in instead of being force in?
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
It is to bad that MS didnt just kill all physical disks. Then they could have gone forward with their plans and all the complainers would have had to focus on something else.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
John Caboose said:
I'm NOT saying I agree with him but I do think his point is this:

"If it was "just videogames" then why would you write 25 000 posts on a website devoted to them?"
Click to expand...

To be fair these days I'm mostly on off-topic, but I usually come back post E3. Either way my gaming time has exceedingly gone down during the years.

edit: Out of 44 threads I started, 7 were about videogames. Shit I had to snoop at my own crap.
 
N

nib95

Banned
If Microsoft/Sony want to lure people towards Digital Downloads and no used games, they need to add value proposition. Not fuck over physical disks and consumer rights/value at the same time. Offer more digital sales, drop digital game prices, add some sort of sharing procedure similar to what Sony has or better. Gamers aren't stupid. They won't commit to something unless the value is there. That's what Microsoft and Sony need to appreciate.

Tempt us with better offerings. No reason why family sharing can't still be part of the digital sphere. In-fact, it might bolster more people towards going digital instead of physical.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
jmdajr said:
What does that have to do with anything? Most people are here during work hours.
Click to expand...

My position is that arguing that something is unimportant relative to more important matters in the world is poor rhetoric in general, and is particularly lame as an argument given where it's being presented and by whom. This is a forum largely comprised of video game enthusiasts, and you're an active member here.

It would still be a poor argument, however, if presented by a junior member.
 
Z

zabuni

Member
Sharing was not going to be as good as originally planned?

Rumor, but:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library. Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. There was never any catch to that, they didn’t have to share the same billing address or physical address it could be anyone. When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game. We were toying around with a limit on the number of times members could access the shared game (as to discourage gamers from simply beating the game by doing multiple playthroughs). but we had not settled on an appropriate way of handling it.
Click to expand...
 
L

LittleJohnny

Banned
nib95 said:
If Microsoft/Sony want to lure people towards Digital Downloads and no used games, they need to add value proposition. Not fuck over physical disks and consumer rights/value at the same time. Offer more digital sales, drop digital game prices, add some sort of sharing procedure similar to what Sony has or better. Gamers aren't stupid. They won't commit to something unless the value is there. That's what Microsoft and Sony need to appreciate.

Tempt us with better offerings. No reason why family sharing can't still be part of the digital sphere. In-fact, it might bolster more people towards going digital instead of physical.
Click to expand...

But according to reports, this is exactly what was going to happen. Whether people believed those reports or not was a different story.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
ekim said:
Yeah - it's pastebin but for what it's worth:
http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2
Click to expand...

If their great sharing plan was really just timed demos then it's good they killed it before people found out. The below is not some kind of killer feature.

When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.
Click to expand...
 
J

John Caboose

Member
yankeehater said:
It is to bad that MS didnt just kill all physical disks. Then they could have gone forward with their plans and all the complainers would have had to focus on something else.
Click to expand...

OR what if they would have gone out and said

"Alright guys, we're going full digital. No trade ins, license transfers, no nothing. You can however fully access the library of your close friends by joining into the same family group."
and then reversed it to
"OK, we have listened to you and you told us not everyone can download a 20GB game over their connection. You can have your discs back but ONLY for installing your digital games.".

I think their message would've been a lot more successful in the minds of gamers while still having almost the exact system (except no trade ins/internet heartbeat).
 
D

dude819

Member
Stone Ocean said:
Because Steam is a digital only service and this whole ordeal is about physical media being restricted, how fucking hard is it for some people to understand that these are completely different situations?

"If MS did this or did that", the whole point is that they fucking didn't do jack shit. We lose our rights to resell disc games, that means the MSRP will go down, right? Think again.
Click to expand...

Xbox One IS a digital platform. If anything, MS is doing a lot of people (those with slow internet speeds or data caps) a favor by allowing you a chance to simply get the games on a disc.

I hope all the squeaky wheels enjoy their grease for now. Can't for ~2020 and everything is all digital.
 
N

nib95

Banned
LittleJohnny said:
Based on GameStop giving people $5 for a game then putting on the shelf and selling use for $39.99? then repeating that process with the same game... hell yea I believe it.
Click to expand...

LittleJohnny, you seem to have a pretty limited understanding of these practises and the business behind it. They offer you $5 because that's what it's worth to them based on supply and demand. They offer you $5 because they already have hundreds or maybe even thousands of that particular item in stock, and it's worth little to them. The lower prices basically average out the stock price and leverage the selling price or profit margin. Otherwise the game being traded in is essentially dead weight. I used to work at one of these stores and there were lots of factors that come in to it.
 
R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
Alx said:
I still like the idea. Yeah it's not "I can play the whole game for free", but it's the closest to having a free demo of any game (provided you know someone who has it). It's nice for the user who can try almost everything, it's nice for the publisher who can have free promotion...
Nobody loses.
Click to expand...

Except the consumers.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
My position is that arguing that something is unimportant relative to more important matters in the world is poor rhetoric in general, and is particularly lame as an argument given where it's being presented and by whom. This is a forum largely comprised of video game enthusiasts, and you're an active member here.

It would still be a poor argument, however, if presented by a junior member.
Click to expand...

He asked a question about why gamers are complacent. Why are they?
Probably because it's a hobby that while I and many get a joy out of, it doesn't rank too high on the priority list in the over scheme of things.

Seems to me you take a lot of things personal from me. I don't see the name Steve Youngblood anywhere in my posts though. Perhaps I should be more cordial with my replies, but it's not like calling me out on post counts is all that polite.
 
N

nib95

Banned
LittleJohnny said:
But according to reports, this is exactly what was going to happen. Whether people believed those reports or not was a different story.
Click to expand...

What reports? Link me. Sounds like you're just making more stuff up based on your own desires. All reports and rumours pointed towards the DRM/policies actually being much worse than they were described as being. Sorry if I'm being a bit angsty towards you, it's just the level of misinformation and ignorance surrounding your posts if a tad grating...
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
nib95 said:
LittleJohnny, you seem to have a pretty limited understanding of these practises and the business behind it. They offer you $5 because that's what it's worth to them based on supply and demand. They offer you $5 because they already have hundreds or maybe even thousands of that particular item in stock, and it's worth little to them. The lower prices basically average out the stock price and leverage the selling price or profit margin. Otherwise the game being traded in is essentially dead weight. I used to work at one of these stores and there were lots of factors that come in to it.
Click to expand...

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that Gamestop actually sells every game they take as a trade-in. If Gamestop aren't offering your fair value, go on CAG, or ebay, or Amazon or a dozen other places and sell/trade your game there.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Curufinwe said:
That would have killed the entire Xbox division.
Click to expand...

Why? Dont PC games do well. Especially with being able to play as you download its not like people would have to wait for a 20gb game to download, plus they could have released a diskless console which would have saved them a ton of money and drastically lowered the starting price.
 
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