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RedShift · Sep 22, 2017

Shite news for London tbh. Black cab drivers are awful and if they weren't so expensive/overpriced/scammy there wouldn't have been room for Uber in the market anyway.

Lots of people going to be put in danger trying to get home now.

Hope Uber sorts their shit out or a replacement service arises, because I'm never getting a fucking black cab.

As for sexual assaults, got any stats on black cab driver offences?

Breakage · Sep 22, 2017

Lime said:
The libertarian hyper-capitalists elsewhere in Europe have whined in the same exact manner when they suddenly find out that workers rights are in the way for letting rich people exploit people to be their cheap perosnal driver.

They're basically "oh, so you're against innovation and progress, you're so outdated and old-fashioned that you're against *progress*" without ever actually addressing or understanding why Uber is such a shitty company. And all of these libertarian hyper capitalist politicians look like they stepped out a 80's Wall Street movie with suit and a tie while they're complaining that they can't exploit people for cheap labor.

Yeah, it's all about the money for such people. What I also find surprising is the amount of Uber users who are angry at this decision. It's as if they want to TfL to overlook the sexual assaults (and subsequent failure to report such incidents) and other glaring issues just so they can continue to have their cheap and convenient taxi service.

ClosingADoor · Sep 22, 2017

Zaph said:
Black cabs are an overpriced racket operated by old boys who think they're doing you a favour and will often try to screw you over on the route if they think you aren't local. They massively under-report their income (shocking how often their card-reader is "broken") and cause you even more inconvenience. Oh, and its funny how the LTDA only insisted on mandatory card readers after losing their court case against Uber. These fuckers will not do anything to improve their service unless forced.

Good thing then they are forcing Uber to do better.

Ether_Snake · Sep 22, 2017

Everyone is doing the same thing as the Uber drivers: driving people around. Period. Saying "I can cook for free but can't run a restaurant without a license" is not comparable. My argument is uber drivers do the same as anyone else, who don't need a license. Free car pooling is fine, but with Uber you get money so it's wrong.

Huw_Dawson · Sep 22, 2017

ClosingADoor said:
Good thing then they are forcing Uber to do better.

I hope this action actually does that. Uber could just up sticks and quit London entirely.

Trying to get all companies to increase their standards is fine by me. But Uber outright being forced out of London is a really bad outcome if it happens.

There is no actual loss to the consumer if this action ends up getting Uber to raise standards without forcing them out. So I'll hope for that outcome I guess.

ronaldthump · Sep 22, 2017

RedShift said:
Shite news for London tbh. Black cab drivers are awful and if they weren't so expensive/overpriced/scammy there wouldn't have been room for Uber in the market anyway.

Lots of people going to be put in danger trying to get home now.

Hope Uber sorts their shit out or a replacement service arises, because I'm never getting a fucking black cab.

As for sexual assaults, got any stats on black cab driver offences?

Just want to highlight that from what I read: there's not that many cases

6 cases. 40k drivers. That's a good enough ratio to give uber a good case to argue.

In 2016, the Met were made aware of six sexual assaults, two public order offences and one assault reported by Uber to TfL, Billany said.

9 instances in 40k drivers, driving 365 days a year.

They should just agree to report immediately and act immediately. and pay taxes. Also, shouldn't TFL have relayed it onwards immediately? The fault isn't just squarely with uber?

ClosingADoor · Sep 22, 2017

Ether_Snake said:
Everyone is doing the same thing as the Uber drivers: driving people around. Period. Saying "I can cook for free but can't run a restaurant without a license" is not comparable. My argument is uber drivers do the same as anyone else, who don't need a license. Free car pooling is fine, but with Uber you get money so it's wrong.

But... you do need a license to drive people around for money. Everyone does. You can't just go and start acting like you are a taxi in your car. Driving a taxi is not the same as carpooling.

JonnyDBrit · Sep 22, 2017

Huw_Dawson said:
Or alternatively it highlights how awful TFL is, when by removing the licence it is removing the income of 40k people.

Why can't the market sort it out. Uber has these major issues, surely folks can go to another taxi firm?

Half this thread is talking about how this isn't the end of the world as London has such a wide variety of transport options. Surely by those transport options, folks have all they need to avoid Uber if they don't like the idea of taking taxis that lack background checks and whatnot?

Again, I think this is actively harming the consumer in a bid to protect the consumer. It's completely backward logic.

Well, that's kind of the crux of it isn't it? The market doesn't automatically care, and in letting Uber get this far, has shown that by and large, it does not.

That they do not care about an issue or the lack of due diligence shown does not necessarily make it acceptable.

Wrestlemania · Sep 22, 2017

Huw_Dawson said:
Why can't the market sort it out. Uber has these major issues, surely folks can go to another taxi firm?

And just let people be at risk of rape in the meantime while you hope that everyone does use another service rather than accept the risk for a cheaper journey?

D4Danger · Sep 22, 2017

Huw_Dawson said:
I hope this action actually does that. Uber could just up sticks and quit London entirely.

Trying to get all companies to increase their standards is fine by me. But Uber outright being forced out of London is a really bad outcome if it happens.

There is no actual loss to the consumer if this action ends up getting Uber to raise standards without forcing them out. So I'll hope for that outcome I guess.

if they won't change why would you even want them here dragging everyone else down?

what if someone comes along with an even cheaper shittier company should that be the new standard?

tonysidaway · Sep 22, 2017

Huw_Dawson said:
I think this decision does nothing for the power of the consumer.

Read the decision. This is, in effect, a pirate trying to evade regulation and law enforcement.

Read other stories I've linked to. The Met is expressing concern for public safety. Uber and Lyft actually campaigned to have a requirement for driver background checks removed in Austin. Companies don't get much more openly evil than that.

daviyoung · Sep 22, 2017

Ether_Snake said:
Everyone is doing the same thing as the Uber drivers: driving people around. Period. Saying "I can cook for free but can't run a restaurant without a license" is not comparable. My argument is uber drivers do the same as anyone else, who don't need a license. Free car pooling is fine, but with Uber you get money so it's wrong.

Uber drives you round using the driver as a facilitator. Uber is a company required to adhere to regulations. A car pooler is not a company and its up to the individual to process risks. A car pooler pretending to be a taxi driver will get pulled up on the pretense. The risk to travellers when using a business is mitigated by regulations.

Your analogy is more akin to hitch hiking with strangers, where each party takes risks in an unregulated system. Uber operates as a business in a regulated system and needs to play by those rules.

Faddy · Sep 22, 2017

For people who hate black cabs just use a different private hire firm.

Charles Brandon · Sep 22, 2017

Spuck-uk said:
I took the tube (before like midnight) and or a (not black) cab, which was similar price to Uber, but didn't have an app. So did everyone else.

Or the night bus, which is fine, as long as you aren't scared of not-white people and/or the working class.

What a load of shit. Calling a mini cab at half three and it being the same price as uber? That never happened. You would be lucky if you could even get one let alone pay as little as twice the Uber surge price. Night buses are ok as long as you don't mind waiting 45 minutes and then spending another hour on the bus as it travels round d half of London.

You can argue against Uber based on ethics but it was a revolution in London on cost and convenience.

RedShift · Sep 22, 2017

Wrestlemania said:
And just let people be at risk of rape in the meantime while you hope that everyone does use another service rather than accept the risk for a cheaper journey?

Again, do you have any stats on this? There are 40,000 Uber drivers in London. How many cases of sexual assault were reported? And how does that compare to black cabs/other services?

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

Uber had the chance to sort their shit out, they didn't. they had four months, failed to implement the necessary, and are reaping the rewards.

Open and shut.

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

Huw_Dawson said:
I hope this action actually does that. Uber could just up sticks and quit London entirely.

Trying to get all companies to increase their standards is fine by me. But Uber outright being forced out of London is a really bad outcome if it happens.

There is no actual loss to the consumer if this action ends up getting Uber to raise standards without forcing them out. So I'll hope for that outcome I guess.

They've up and left places before when local governments tried to force them into such radical considerations as 'don't hire rapists'.

Fuck em.

Wrestlemania · Sep 22, 2017

RedShift said:
Again, do you have any stats on this? There are 40,000 Uber drivers in London. How many cases of sexual assault were reported? And how does that compare to black cabs/other services?

The issue is not just about the numbers - it's about their response.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/14/uber-allegedly-failed-to-report-sex-attacks/

Uber has allegedly failed to report sexual assaults by its drivers in London, a claim that revives one of the oldest and most severe of the ride-hailing company's many reputational problems.
The U.K.'s Sunday Times at the weekend cited a letter from Inspector Neil Billany, head of the Metropolitan Polices taxi and private hire unit, as saying that the ride-hailing company has been made aware of criminal activity and yet havent informed the police.

And it's been referenced as one of the reasons to not renew their license.

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

Geoff said:
What a load of shit. Calling a mini cab at half three and it being the same price as uber? That never happened. You would be lucky if you could even get one let alone pay as little as twice the Uber surge price. Night buses are ok as long as you don't mind waiting 45 minutes and then spending another hour on the bus as it travels round d half of London.

You can argue against Uber based on ethics but it was a revolution in London on cost and convenience.

Someone a page back literally went and checked the prices between Uber and other cab apps and found little difference, so show your proof if it disagrees.

People think it was literally impossible to get round london reliably at night without going bankrupt. I was living there and it was a piece of piss.

daviyoung · Sep 22, 2017

Spuck-uk said:
Someone a page back literally went and checked the prices between Uber and other cab apps and found little difference, so show your proof if it disagrees.

People think it was literally impossible to get round london reliably at night without going bankrupt. I was living there and it was a piece of piss.

The estimators are garbage. Strand to Liverpool Street (2.8 miles) is £20 in a black cab and £8 in Uber.

Deleted member 231381 · Sep 22, 2017

I don't have any problem with this. If they overhaul their practices, everything will be fine for them, and they don't even have to cease service while this overhaul takes place. The end result is that Uber still operates, but in a more consumer-friendly manner. What's not to like?

norinrad · Sep 22, 2017

If major cities follow suit, Uber could be doomed. The same fate sort of awaits Airbnb.

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

daviyoung said:
The estimators are garbage. Strand to Liverpool Street (2.8 miles) is £20 in a black cab and £8 in Uber.

They weren't estimating against black cabs, nobody is claiming black cabs are as cheap as Uber. they were estimating against private hire taxi firms, of which London has hundreds.

And you should be taking the tube between those two points unless you're a very lost tourist.

daviyoung · Sep 22, 2017

Crab said:
I don't have any problem with this. If they overhaul their practices, everything will be fine for them, and they don't even have to cease service while this overhaul takes place. The end result is that Uber still operates, but in a more consumer-friendly manner. What's not to like?

It'll probably be more expensive afterwards

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

norinrad said:
If major cities follow suit, Uber could be doomed. The same fate sort of awaits Airbnb.

Uber are doomed anyway, they've never come even close to profitable, they only survive based on a huge amount of venture capital investment.

Llyranor · Sep 22, 2017

Wrestlemania said:
The issue is not just about the numbers - it's about their response.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/14/uber-allegedly-failed-to-report-sex-attacks/

And it's been referenced as one of the reasons to not renew their license.

The cases no reported included six sexual assaults, two public order offenses, and an assault. In one such instance, Billany said, Uber continued to employ the driver, who then committed a second and ”more serious sexual assault" against a different passenger.

Yuck.

Skellig Gra · Sep 22, 2017

Damn Geoff went off the deep end! Uber is a horrible slimey company. I feel bad for the drivers but let's be honest, another company can easily replace what Uber is doing.

Koriandrr · Sep 22, 2017

https://www.change.org/p/save-your-...ium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive

entremet · Sep 22, 2017

Spuck-uk said:
Uber are doomed anyway, they've never come even close to profitable, they only survive based on a huge amount of venture capital investment.

Uber is playing the long game of driverless cars.

AndyD · Sep 22, 2017

As a tourist, in talking with people in London they seemed more against the bike lanes throughout downtown than against Uber.

But the requirements for Uber seem reasonable.

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

entremet said:
Uber is playing the long game of driverless cars.

Yeah, that's the endgame. I really doubt they reach it though.

avaya · Sep 22, 2017

These are serious charges. Uber are cunts of the highest order and companies do not voluntarily fix issues like this unless they face economic damage.

Uber is very unlikely to quit London, it is far too big and lucrative to leave. Were they to do so it wouldn't take for Lyft, SoftBank or Google to pick up the slack.

Jezbollah · Sep 22, 2017

daviyoung said:
It'll probably be more expensive afterwards

It wouldn't be a good look for Uber for them sacrificing safety of their service for competitiveness in the market.

Something has to give. Uber needs to be forced to take its customer's wellbeing into consideration. If they can't do that without running out of business, so be it.

freeofgreed · Sep 22, 2017

daviyoung said:
It'll probably be more expensive afterwards

No it wouldn't. Uber is already operating at a loss. The costs of an uber ride are already heavily subsidized and don't cost any way near the amount it should. If they overhaul their safety standards they definitely won't shift these costs to consumers because it runs counter to the way their business model has been operating since it's inception.

Linkura · Sep 22, 2017

Good. They are a shitty company with disgusting business practices. Let another rideshare company that isn't shit into the market instead.

Spuck-uk · Sep 22, 2017

Whoever posted this earlier, thank you:

http://thedollop.libsyn.com/271-uber

Skip the first ten minutes of awful shilling, and it's potted history of Uber, and the Founder, who's SUCH a fucking douchebag.

daviyoung · Sep 22, 2017

freeofgreed said:
No it wouldn't. Uber is already operating at a loss. The costs of an uber ride are already heavily subsidized and don't cost any way near the amount it should. If they overhaul their safety standards they definitely won't shift these costs to consumers because it runs counter to the way their business model has been operating since it's inception.

Yes, it goes completely against the only thing they have going for them. That's the point. Adhering to these regulations will cost them money, and if they don't decide to pass on the costs then we'll see what effect it has on their stock as that is the only thing keeping them afloat.

freeofgreed · Sep 22, 2017

daviyoung said:
Yes, it goes completely against the only thing they have going for them. That's the point. Adhering to these regulations will cost them money, and we'll see what effect it has on their stock as that is the only thing keeping them afloat.

If them never being profitable hasn't affected their stock, then the slight increases in cost it would take them to improve their safety standards definitely won't.

daviyoung · Sep 22, 2017

freeofgreed said:
If them never being profitable hasn't affected their stock, then the slight increases in cost it would take them to improve their safety standards definitely won't.

I hope that there are no more setbacks for them in between now and the investors seeing a return!

freeofgreed · Sep 22, 2017

daviyoung said:
I hope that there are no more setbacks for them in between now and the investors seeing a return!

Oh trust me there will be lol.

Beefy · Sep 22, 2017

Another girl I know got driven to the wrong address by a Uber driver. When she complained, he said this was what she said, she replied it wasn't and wouldn't be paying. So the driver locked all the doors and didn't let her out until she paid. She was a lil drunk so didn't think of calling the police at the time and then had to walk by herself home. She reported it next day to Uber and they said the guy had been fired, but ahe saw him driving a Uber cab the next week.

Psychotext · Sep 22, 2017

Just got a petition email from them. Wankers.

CyclopsRock · Sep 22, 2017

JonnyDBrit said:
Well, that's kind of the crux of it isn't it? The market doesn't automatically care, and in letting Uber get this far, has shown that by and large, it does not.

That they do not care about an issue or the lack of due diligence shown does not necessarily make it acceptable.

I don't think his point was "the market says it's OK to rape people", his point was that Uber is being held up as unsafe, but if what you're concerned about is safety then there are already alternatives that are seemingly safer - namely, the ones that would still be here should Uber disappear. Getting rid of Uber doesn't make the other suppliers - mini cabs, black cabs etc - any safer. So if you want to use them now, you can.

Talents · Sep 22, 2017

shaneo632 said:
Still waiting for Uber to roll out elsewhere, still got shitty overpriced cabs here in Essex.

I can get Ubers in Essex.

Wrestlemania · Sep 22, 2017

CyclopsRock said:
I don't think his point was "the market says it's OK to rape people", his point was that Uber is being held up as unsafe, but if what you're concerned about is safety then there are already alternatives that are seemingly safer - namely, the ones that would still be here should Uber disappear. Getting rid of Uber doesn't make the other suppliers - mini cabs, black cabs etc - any safer. So if you want to use them now, you can.

If TFL had renewed their license then they would effectively be saying "It's OK for licensed taxi operators in London to have a poor record of reporting crimes against their passengers or taking appropriate steps to prevent them in the first place". Which doesn't strike me as being a particularly good stance for them to take since it'd call into question whether any of the other operators are as bad.

frankie_baby · Sep 22, 2017

Ether_Snake said:
Everyone is doing the same thing as the Uber drivers: driving people around. Period. Saying "I can cook for free but can't run a restaurant without a license" is not comparable. My argument is uber drivers do the same as anyone else, who don't need a license. Free car pooling is fine, but with Uber you get money so it's wrong.

Whatever uber might like to pretend its not a car pool its a fucking taxi, end of, taxis have rules uber has to follow them,

jelly · Sep 22, 2017

Is Lyft not a thing in the UK?

I thought they were the nicer version of Uber.

ClosingADoor · Sep 22, 2017

Beefy said:
Another girl I know got driven to the wrong address by a Uber driver. When she complained, he said this was what she said, she replied it wasn't and wouldn't be paying. So the driver locked all the doors and didn't let her out until she paid. She was a lil drunk so didn't think of calling the police at the time and then had to walk by herself home. She reported it next day to Uber and they said the guy had been fired, but ahe saw him driving a Uber cab the next week.

How does this happen with Uber? Isn't the whole point that you put in the address yourself on the app and then paying goes from your credit card when you arrive?

OG Kush · Sep 22, 2017

It's kind of frustrating they're no decent uber competitor in London. When I was in New York they had Lyft and a few other taxi/pool services. Taxify tried to launch in london at the beginning of this month but had their licensed revoked after 3 days of operation.

Empty · Sep 22, 2017

uber will piss and moan but they aren't going to pull out of a market as lucrative as london over a few changes. good to see tfl using their power to put pressure on them instead letting a trendy brand name ignore laws as they see fit.

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