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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows

T

theaface

Member
mehrmantrout said:
This will be the litmus test, if he gives the thumbs down she's doomed
Click to expand...

1099.gif

He's not a fan.

In other words, man who says everything is shit but suggests no viable alternatives thinks woman who says everything is shit but suggests no viable alternatives is bad.
 
O

oti

Banned
Farage is basically saying the UK should go after the workers in the EU countries for the negotiations and undermine the governments.

Yes.

You read that right.
 
K

kmag

Member
Well that was basically a capitulation.

The EU will turn around now, and say "that's nice, so about that exit bill."
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
So, once you remove all the BS, this is what we know now that we (kinda) didn't before:

  • We will still accept ECJ authority
  • We will not be in the EEA single market
  • We will cooperate on security
  • We want a 2 year transitional period after Brexit implemented
  • We're still willing to walk away
But even those came with caveats (ECJ only in regards to EU citizens and we need to create a whole new dispute resolution process, we won't accept trade tariffs, we need to negotiate a new treaty for security cooperation, have FoM during transition but need to register so not actually free).
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
What would Nigel do? Barneier doesn't want a deal so don't give him any quarter. Use the car companies and wine companies to put pressure on Brussmells show the world that the UK is open for trade.

I'll take the ill informed people on the street segments over that turd. At lease those are not being paid by the EU for their drivel.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Jackpot said:
So, once you remove all the BS, this is what we know now that we (kinda) didn't before:

  • We will still accept ECJ authority
  • We will not be in the EEA single market
  • We will cooperate on security
  • We want a 2 year transitional period after Brexit implemented
  • We're still willing to walk away
But even those came with caveats (ECJ only in regards to EU citizens and we need to create a whole new dispute resolution process, we won't accept trade tariffs, we need to negotiate a new treaty for security cooperation, have FoM during transition but need to register so not actually free).
Click to expand...
And more than anything, particularly the first point, the approach may go down like warm sick with the Hard Brexiteer wing of the party. I don't think putting (another) two year limit on the transitional period will settle that.
 
K

kmag

Member
Jackpot said:
So, once you remove all the BS, this is what we know now that we (kinda) didn't before:

  • We will still accept ECJ authority
  • We will not be in the EEA single market
  • We will cooperate on security
  • We want a 2 year transitional period after Brexit implemented
  • We're still willing to walk away
But even those came with caveats (ECJ only in regards to EU citizens and we need to create a whole new dispute resolution process, we won't accept trade tariffs, we need to negotiate a new treaty for security cooperation, have FoM during transition but need to register so not actually free).
Click to expand...

Those caveats will all disappear. The EU have the UK against the wall.
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
indefinite transitional period, where we threaten to walk if we don't get respect etc, over time we forget about it and just carry on.

wait why is the pound stabilized ? it went down a few points but is now back to 1.13???
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
A major concern for the more politically savvy Brexiteers will also be that the longer the withdrawal period takes, the more chance the public has of changing its mind or a government being elected that is anti-Brexit.

The latter is unlikely as the Labour Party is happy to go through with broadly the sort of Brexit May now wants, it seems, but hey, apparently Cable thinks he could be PM...

But yeah this is going to go down badly with the headbangers and isn't going to generate any good will at all.
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Huw_Dawson said:
A major concern for the more politically savvy Brexiteers will also be that the longer the withdrawal period takes, the more chance the public has of changing its mind or a government being elected that is anti-Brexit.

The latter is unlikely as the Labour Party is happy to go through with broadly the sort of Brexit May now wants, it seems, but hey, apparently Cable thinks he could be PM...

But yeah this is going to go down badly with the headbangers and isn't going to generate any good will at all.
Click to expand...

maybe this is a long gamble that may is hoping to happen people change their minds.

I am still hoping on the UK delaying until being asked to get out then going, fuck you we aint leaving.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
I don't buy that this is a secret Remainer bid by May to kick Brexit into the long grass. This speech literally just sets out the facts about leaving - it will take time and cost money.

But many headbangers don't want facts, they want us to walk out, sooooooo
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
jufonuk said:
indefinite transitional period, where we threaten to walk if we don't get respect etc, over time we forget about it and just carry on.

wait why is the pound stabilized ? it went down a few points but is now back to 1.13???
Click to expand...

Presumably because she stopped speaking so she can't do any more damage
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Given how much it was talked up, and the leaked info, compared to what May presented today, its not a reach to suggest the speech was butchered last minute, right?

Boris threw his weight around, threatened a challenge, so May cut out the meat of it (anything financial/paid transition)?
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
jufonuk said:
indefinite transitional period, where we threaten to walk if we don't get respect etc, over time we forget about it and just carry on.

wait why is the pound stabilized ? it went down a few points but is now back to 1.13???
Click to expand...

Because fundamentally, she didn't say anything of consequence.
 
C

CTLance

Member
jufonuk said:
indefinite transitional period, where we threaten to walk if we don't get respect etc, over time we forget about it and just carry on.
Click to expand...
In 1881, poet and novelist Robert Louis Stevenson said ‘to travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive.’
Some ancient Chinese dude also blathered on about the way being the destination. Whatshisface, King Kong or something.

See, UK is keeping with the classics.
jufonuk said:
wait why is the pound stabilized ? it went down a few points but is now back to 1.13???
Click to expand...
I will never get how the Pound still stays this strong. All signs point to a messy doom, but the Pound just keeps on trucking... kinda. And don't give me the "nothing badong has happened yet" spiel. The fact that nothing major has happened yet with regards to Brexit spells doom, more than anything else.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Zaph said:
Given how much it was talked up, and the leaked info, compared to what May presented today, its not a reach to suggest the speech was butchered last minute, right?

Boris threw his weight around, threatened a challenge, so May cut out the meat of it (anything financial/paid transition)?
Click to expand...


I think they have almost no room to manoeuvre, so it's hard to say if they cut stuff out or just try and hype up any position they can.
 
C

CTLance

Member
PJV3 said:
I think they have almost no room to manoeuvre, so it's hard to say if they cut stuff out or just try and hype up any position they can.
Click to expand...
Maybe they were fishing for leakers? You know, build up a nothingburger into a big deal, then seed certain people with specific juicy info and look at what ends up being leaked to the press. Even if everything gets out, nothing can go wrong since there's basically nothing to leak anyway.

Yeah, that's gotta be the ticket. No way is May going to shlep her entire entourage across Europe just for a bunch of hot air.
</optimism>
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
jufonuk said:
maybe this is a long gamble that may is hoping to happen people change their minds.

I am still hoping on the UK delaying until being asked to get out then going, fuck you we aint leaving.
Click to expand...

To be honest my only hope is that the UK realize the EU just want us to leave and being the stubborn cunts we are deciding that's the exact reason we should stay.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
I feel like we gave all our leverage away the day we activated Article 50. Before, we could have threatened to make an almighty nuisance of ourselves. Now, it's "Give us what we want or we'll shoot ourselves in the head."

Basically, the Tory party was too shit-scared to give even a whiff that we might remain in the EU so - stop me if you've heard this one before - they put the well-being of their party before that of the entire country.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
CTLance said:
Maybe they were fishing for leakers? You know, build up a nothingburger into a big deal, then seed certain people with specific juicy info and look at what ends up being leaked to the press. Even if everything gets out, nothing can go wrong since there's basically nothing to leak anyway.

Yeah, that's gotta be the ticket. No way is May going to shlep her entire entourage across Europe just for a bunch of hot air.
</optimism>
Click to expand...

I think she just likes to remind them that no deal is better than a bad deal, it's good advice that the people of the EU seem to be following.
 
P

pulsemyne

Member
Mr. Sam said:
I feel like we gave all our leverage away the day we activated Article 50. Before, we could have threatened to make an almighty nuisance of ourselves. Now, it's "Give us what we want or we'll shoot ourselves in the head."

Basically, the Tory party was too shit-scared to give even a whiff that we might remain in the EU so - stop me if you've heard this one before - they put the well-being of their party before that of the entire country.
Click to expand...

We never had any leverage. None. Zero. That's why Brexit was fucking stupid in the first place.
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
jufonuk said:
wait why is the pound stabilized ? it went down a few points but is now back to 1.13???
Click to expand...

I guess it's because the market feared that she'd be giving a "no compromises" speech following Boris's ultimatum.
Instead it's all about how amazing we are together and we just need to be 'creative', and by the way can we keep things more-or-less as they are for another 2 years.

Speaking of Boris, I assume he's fucking off now, since May didn't give him the hard Brexit speech he demanded.
Or has he bottled-out of bottling-out?
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
UpDownLeftRight said:
To be honest my only hope is that the UK realize the EU just want us to leave and being the stubborn cunts we are deciding that's the exact reason we should stay.
Click to expand...
I can honestly see this happening

And the sun and daily mail demand we stay not listen to the EU and all the leavers going . Ok fuck the EU we are going to stay.

Seriously if it happens I can imagine the meltdown Charlie brooker with have
 
T

TrutaS

Member
Another embarrassing moment for the UK in the world stage. And the whole Florence pomp made it even worse. Country genuinely feels like it's shrinking dramatically in credibility.
 
J

jelly

Member
What the hell was the point of going to Florence or even this speech?

So, they kick the can down the road, that is if the EU lets them. Labour get the keys and drive us off the cliff instead if the Tories lose the election. Christ almighty.

Britain is a puddle, evaporating.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Mr. Sam said:
I feel like we gave all our leverage away the day we activated Article 50. Before, we could have threatened to make an almighty nuisance of ourselves. Now, it's "Give us what we want or we'll shoot ourselves in the head."

Basically, the Tory party was too shit-scared to give even a whiff that we might remain in the EU so - stop me if you've heard this one before - they put the well-being of their party before that of the entire country.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The one thing under UK control was the date we triggered Article 50. We could have built up the infrastructure required to deal with a hard Brexit before hand, or put together plans on how to do that, or planned anything at all. Instead it was triggered early to prevent the swivel eyed loons getting angsty about the process, and we gave up all the control over the process without any sort of plan.
 
J

jelly

Member
Good points on article 50 there. What were they thinking, my god. Did they imagine the EU giving them the cake without question. Who profited from the pound caving I wonder, tin foil hat on.

I still think they could ignore the article 50 timeline as long as they keep paying into the EU as now and get a little leeway for a short time to come to their senses if it doesn't happen before then. I find it hard to believe the UK will walk or the EU will say times up, piss off.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
"Let's try to be more imaginative and creative here" is exactly what you would expect a Mob boss to say in front of a judge to avoid proposing a bribe directly.

Still, UK has nothing to offer under the conditions they set for themselves. Sorry May.
 
A

afroguy10

Member
I've been in work all day so I'm just catching up but I'm assuming the speech was a complete load of pish and everyone and their gran is currently stabbing Theresa May in the back?
 
J

jelly

Member
How about let's be realistic and sensible, it's stupid and reckless so we aren't doing it.

That wasn't so hard, now go to work and start fixing the UK, implementing rules and regulations, investing etc. and stop blaming the EU for most shit things and others that people take issue with that you could fix yourselves but have ignored for many years.
 
K

keep

Member
Barnier's reply reads like a bored teacher grading her student in a delicious passive-aggressive must-try-harder way <3
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
Why the eff did the Guardian ask John Redwood his opinion? Token fruitcake so they claim impartiality?

A bold and positive speech in the face of an EU that has no plan
Click to expand...

The prime minister repeated that no deal is better than a bad deal. This is a vital statement, to have any kind of negotiation at all. This puts the UK in a strong position in the talks.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/22/theresa-may-florence-speech-brexit-plan

This guy actually has a say in how our lives are run.
 
K

killer_clank

Member
This speech is actually about as cheering as it gets for us remainders currently. Yes, we’ll be leaving in the EU in March 2019 but there’s another 2 years of guaranteed regulatory compliance with the single market and a chance for the debate to change over the intervening years. For example, if we had a change of govt to Labour in the intervening time and the economy was ticking along nicely, would they really want to actually go through with leaving the single market? There would be a lot of pressure not to and make the single market membership more permanent.
 
K

keep

Member
Guy Verhofstadt serving some REALNESS to Theresa in his reply:

Six months after the triggering of article 50, it appears that the position of the UK is becoming more realistic. Finally, the UK Government concedes a transition period will be necessary, as the European Parliament already indicated in its resolution of the 5th of April. But this transition or implementation period can only be a continuation of the EU acquis ('acquis communautaire'); it will be impossible to cherry-pick. This means for example, with regard to citizens rights, that a new registration mechanism for EU citizens going to live and/or work in the UK is out of the question. Equally, oversight by the European Court of Justice needs to be secured for the entire transition period. It can never be allowed for the ECJ to be replaced by another dispute settle mechanism during our future relationship.
The European Parliament has made it very clear from the beginning that for us it is: citizens first. We need to be very cautious, and I want to see how, next week, when the negotiations resume, the UK government intends to guarantee that the rulings of the European Court of Justice will be fully taken on board by UK courts. The protection of the rights of our EU citizens living in Britain must be absolute and beyond any doubt. I repeat that the new "settled status", as proposed by the UK Government, is hugely problematic in that respect as it will create an enormous administrative burden and uncertainty for millions of our citizens.
On the financial settlement, Prime Minister May brought some additional clarifications but also here important questions remain. While on the one hand the UK Government speaks of 'honoring all commitments made during membership', on the other hand the Prime Minister suggests payments will be limited until 2020, while the transition period goes beyond 2020 and some commitments will only produce payments after that date. The UK government will have to come up with concrete proposals next week, during the fourth round of negotiations to bring full clarity.
Apart from citizens' rights and the financial settlement, the EU always made clear that the Irish question is one of our priorities. I didn't hear yet how the UK government wants to avoid a hard border or physical checks on the island of Ireland. This only seems possible if Northern Ireland remains part of the Customs Union.
With regards to the future relationship, I heard a lot about what the UK doesn't want (the single market, the customs union, the EEA or an FTA). I hope to hear from them soon how they see the "deep and special partnership" with the EU. I reiterate our opinion that an association agreement is the preferable framework to shape our future relationship. It is foreseen in the Treaty and can cover all sectors: from trade to research, internal and external security. However, full clarity on the essential elements of the withdrawal agreement and positive steps in the negotiations are needed before the Parliament can assess that sufficient progress has been made to open the negotiations on the future relationship.
The EP Brexit Steering Group together with the EU negotiator will make a full assessment of Prime Minister May's intervention, including the preparation of the next negotiation round next Monday at midday.
Click to expand...

In case you thought they hadn't noticed, they will NOT discuss future partnerships until you sort Ireland, EU citizens and the bill, Theresa. Go back to the start.
 
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