• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Dunk#7
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:03 AM)
Dunk#7's Avatar
Let's toss another topic on the pile. I, for one, am excited for any and all new technology that is released. I am glad to see all of the topics related to new hardware recently as this is one of the most exciting times on a site like NeoGAF. It only happens every 5-10 years.

Anyway on to my question...


Sony already has plans to utilize Gakai for remote computations that stream back to the local console. I know the implementations are different, but couldn't Sony easily leverage the Gakai technology to combat the cloud that Microsoft is promoting? Instead of performing calculations for past games or demos they should be able to move to expanding the computational aspects of the local console for current games.

I am not saying it would be a smart idea, but the potential is there correct?


*The reason I don't think this concept is a good thing is that you cannot guarantee a flat line user experience with cloud computing. There are too many variables involved. Do people with slower internet connections get a lesser quality product or does it not allow them to play? What happens when the connection slows down temporarily?
Canis lupus
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:04 AM)
I don't buy that whole ''cloud making yo games look better'' thing, but if MS can do it why can't Gaikai which can do much more like streaming a whole game.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
(05-26-2013, 12:05 AM)
Rebel Leader's Avatar

Originally Posted by Canis lupus

I don't buy that whole ''cloud making yo games look better'' thing.

Neither did I with the cell
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
(05-26-2013, 12:05 AM)
InfiniteNine's Avatar
It's a different thing altogether.
kitch9
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:05 AM)
kitch9's Avatar
People will post saying only Microsoft servers have cloud powers as they are made of special sauce.

At the end of the day expect at best a few gimmicks with forced gameplay scenarios to take advantage of them.
Aliquidmeri
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:05 AM)
Aliquidmeri's Avatar
What reason do we have to believe that Microsoft's cloud talk isn't all smoke and mirrors? I doubt Sony is too worried about competing against vapor ware.
macewank
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:05 AM)
macewank's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dunk#7

Let's toss another topic on the pile. I, for one, am excited for any and all new technology that is released. I am glad to see all of the topics related to new hardware recently as this is one of the most exciting times on a site like NeoGAF. It only happens every 5-10 years.

Anyway on to my question...


Sony already has plans to utilize Gakai for remote computations that stream back to the local console. I know the implementations are different, but couldn't Sony easily leverage the Gakai technology to combat the cloud that Microsoft is promoting? Instead of performing calculations for past games or demos they should be able to move to expanding the computational aspects of the local console for current games.

I am not saying it would be a smart idea, but the potential is there correct?


*The reason I don't think this concept is a good thing is that you cannot guarantee a flat line user experience with cloud computing. There are too many variables involved. Do people with slower internet connections get a lesser quality product or does it not allow them to play? What happens when the connection slows down temporarily?


the potential is .... sort of there.

i think it's important to note that if computing/gaming/whatever was anywhere near ready for what Microsoft is calling "the infinite power of the cloud" we'd already be doing it on our PC's.. we aren't. that says a lot.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
(05-26-2013, 12:06 AM)
Rebel Leader's Avatar

Originally Posted by kitch9

People will post saying only Microsoft servers have cloud powers as they are made of special sauce.

It will never be better than A1 sauce
pharmboy044
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:06 AM)

Originally Posted by InfiniteNine

It's a different thing altogether.

Really? What makes it different?
Duxxy3
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:07 AM)
Duxxy3's Avatar
It's less proven than Microsoft's cloud services.
Toki767
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:08 AM)
Toki767's Avatar
Sim City has proven that the cloud isn't useful for extra power.
The Bookerman
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:08 AM)
The Bookerman's Avatar
if your bandwidth is low and the experience is based on the power you "get" from the cloud, that would make me feel like a second class citizen.

Either way, it's just another buzz word: "BLAST PROCESSING!"
Relativ9
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:09 AM)
Relativ9's Avatar
Yup, there's no reason they couldn't...in fact their servers would have to be vastly superior just to stream a demo. A demo has all the elements of the full games engine, just not all the assets. Doing the calculations for an entire game engine is a lot more taxing than doing just the physics or AI, as MS has talked about.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:09 AM)
These two things aren't really related at all. Streaming video is different to remote calculations. But if they have a server farm there's nothing stopping them doing a similar thing.
kitch9
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:09 AM)
kitch9's Avatar

Originally Posted by pharmboy044

Really? What makes it different?

Special sauce silly.
RetroStu
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:10 AM)
I thought Gakai was just a game streaming service for older games, kind of instead of BC?
BadWolf
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:10 AM)
BadWolf's Avatar
Sony's Gakai plans lean more towards the realistic side whereas MS's cloud power thing sounds like complete PR bullshit.
Spartaner
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:10 AM)

Originally Posted by Aliquidmeri

What reason do we have to believe that Microsoft's cloud talk isn't all smoke and mirrors? I doubt Sony is too worried about competing against vapor ware.

so microsofts billion dollar business is just smoke and mirrors ?
come the fuck on people ...

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-j...ub-7000014669/
pieatorium
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:10 AM)
pieatorium's Avatar

Originally Posted by pharmboy044

Really? What makes it different?

Gakai is rendering the games in the cloud and streaming the visuals to the user. Xbox is rendering games locally and offloading some tasks to the cloud.
sajj316
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:10 AM)
sajj316's Avatar

Originally Posted by pharmboy044

Really? What makes it different?

One streams a game server side to the client on PS4. The other is to leverage server side for computations that are then received by the client when locally playing a game.
Clevinger
(05-26-2013, 12:11 AM)
Clevinger's Avatar

Originally Posted by pharmboy044

Really? What makes it different?

One's just streaming interactive video and one is claiming cloud processing is making their system 4 times more powerful.
Dunk#7
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:11 AM)
Dunk#7's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dave Meltzer

These two things aren't really related at all. Streaming video is different to remote calculations. But if they have a server farm there's nothing stopping them doing a similar thing.

What? Gakai does ALL the remote calculations for a game, and then streams the video back. Gakai is not NetFlix: Let's Play...
Betta Lines
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:11 AM)
Betta Lines's Avatar
They need to show a game or at least a real-time tech demo at E3 that is only possible due to the cloud, otherwise it's total BS.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-26-2013, 12:11 AM)
twobear's Avatar

Originally Posted by Aliquidmeri

What reason do we have to believe that Microsoft's cloud talk isn't all smoke and mirrors? I doubt Sony is too worried about competing against vapor ware.

Windows Azure already exists.

It wont be used for graphics tasks though.
Tagg9
(05-26-2013, 12:12 AM)
Tagg9's Avatar
But does Gaikai have 300,000 servers?
brigadeer
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:13 AM)
brigadeer's Avatar
I'm thinking Microsoft is significantly over-estimating what their "cloud" will be able to do, at least at first. I'm guessing it would take a good couple of years for developers to really utilize that MS has to offer here, which again, I think will be over-estimated as it pertains to being a "game changer", pardon the pun.
sweetvar26
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:13 AM)
sweetvar26's Avatar
The thing is, Xbox One has to be connected to the Internet while the PS4 doesn't have to be.

To make this cloud thing a norm, I think Sony will have to change their policies which is not recommended for few regions and is also considered anti-consumer.
famousmortimer
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:14 AM)
famousmortimer's Avatar

Originally Posted by Tagg9

But does Gaikai have 300,000 servers?

I certainly hope so if they are doing streaming to millions and millions of ps4s.


They are talking about different tech but the basic notion, if this isn't bullshit this gen (which is a HUGE if) what makes it exclusive to MS? Nothing. It will be done on everything, including your phone.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-26-2013, 12:14 AM)
twobear's Avatar

Originally Posted by brigadeer

I'm thinking Microsoft is significantly over-estimating what their "cloud" will be able to do,

I don't think Microsoft have over-estimated what their own technology can do at all. They've almost certainly oversold aspects of it. It will never be used for graphics tasks, for instance.
lovegames718
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:15 AM)
Of course they do. Its just Microsoft is voicing it more, trying to use it as PR spin since the info is out that xbone is weaker than ps4. Gakai will be able to do whatever cloud on xbone can do and its already proven. Months ago Sony talked about reinforcing their infrastructure for cloud gaming and now micro comes along with the server talk.
Cidd
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:15 AM)
Cidd's Avatar

Originally Posted by pharmboy044

Really? What makes it different?

One is Bs pipe dream the other is proven.
ThisWreckage
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:16 AM)
ThisWreckage's Avatar

Originally Posted by Tagg9

But does Gaikai have 300,000 servers?

Maybe even more. It's one of the main reasons why Sony bought them out. They'll be instrumental in the PS4's growth.
GribbleGrunger
Junior Member
(05-26-2013, 12:16 AM)
GribbleGrunger's Avatar
Do people honestly think that Kinect is the only camera that can do what we've seen, or offer similar TV features? Why only compare the negative sides of X1? I think it's telling.
rohlfinator
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:16 AM)
rohlfinator's Avatar
The strength of Gaikai/OnLive is being able to quickly compress the video feed and stream it over the net. It's kind of a different beast from raw computing power like Microsoft is hyping, though there may be some overlap.
sajj316
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:17 AM)
sajj316's Avatar
In order for cloud computing to work, Xbox servers must be able to run the games engine on the server side. Client has to send a request to compute, server crunches numbers, sends back to client to render/display/feedback.
Whipped Spartan
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:17 AM)
Whipped Spartan's Avatar
What ever happened to onlive? It seems like they announce almost the exact same things cloud wise save for sony on the downloads and demo's. And MS with the cloud graphics. In a round about way I feel like they are the same goals though. Using remote computers to improve someones experience. PS3 on handhelds etc...
GrayGrey
Junior Member
(05-26-2013, 12:18 AM)
GrayGrey's Avatar

Originally Posted by Toki767

Sim City has proven that the cloud isn't useful for extra power.

That's what I'm saying! Granted their are a lot more servers, but will it really work? Or is it another excuse for keeping gamer's online?
bigboss370
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:18 AM)
bigboss370's Avatar
*rolls eyes*

first of all, this cloud stuff is fluff. second, cloud ain't exclusive to MS or anyone else.


Originally Posted by GribbleGrunger

Do people honestly think that Kinect is the only camera that can do what we've seen?

yes? for gaming purposes certainly. Kinect 2.0 anyways.
lovegames718
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:18 AM)

Originally Posted by Spartaner

so microsofts billion dollar business is just smoke and mirrors ?
come the fuck on people ...

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-j...ub-7000014669/


Yeah, what makes you think otherwise. History isn't on Microsoft's side with all the lies and bs they talked about in the past. Starting with lying about the rrod fiasco until litigation forced Their hand and then onto all the kinect fake videos and saying how awesome kinect and its games are. Yeah micro. Is great with smoke and mirrors.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-26-2013, 12:19 AM)
twobear's Avatar

Originally Posted by Toki767

Sim City has proven that the cloud isn't useful for extra power.

A game that was never built to take advantage of the cloud proves that the cloud isn't useful.

Don't tell me you actually believed EA when they said that SimCity was always online because it's offloading compute tasks.
Dunk#7
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:19 AM)
Dunk#7's Avatar

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

The strength of Gaikai/OnLive is being able to quickly compress the video feed and stream it over the net. It's kind of a different beast from raw computing power like Microsoft is hyping, though there may be some overlap.

But Gakai is also performing all the computations from the game. Why do people keep acting like they are just streaming video like Netflix?
ThisWreckage
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:20 AM)
ThisWreckage's Avatar
This cloud bullshit is just a way for Microsoft to deflect attention away from their underpowered machine. It's working too. It's science fiction nonsense that will never come into fruition.
bigboss370
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:22 AM)
bigboss370's Avatar
is this argument gonna come down to:

person 1: show me a game that has used cloud effectively for extra power. prove it works.

person 2: no game has been made to take advantage of cloud yet. you can't prove it doesn't work.

???
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-26-2013, 12:24 AM)
twobear's Avatar

Originally Posted by bigboss370

is this argument gonna come down to:

person 1: show me a game that has used cloud effectively for extra power. prove it works.

person 2: no game has been made to take advantage of cloud yet. you can't prove it doesn't work.

???

Sim City was hacked to include offline mode. It categorically did not use 'the cloud' to offload compute tasks.
bigboss370
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:25 AM)
bigboss370's Avatar

Originally Posted by godelsmetric

Sim City was hacked to include offline mode. It categorically did not use 'the cloud' to offload compute tasks.

okay? and Diablo 3?
Raide
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:26 AM)
Raide's Avatar

Originally Posted by bigboss370

okay? and Diablo 3?

Simply DRM to get people to use the AH.
Spartaner
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:27 AM)

Originally Posted by lovegames718

Yeah, what makes you think otherwise. History isn't on Microsoft's side with all the lies and bs they talked about in the past. Starting with lying about the rrod fiasco until litigation forced Their hand and then onto all the kinect fake videos and saying how awesome kinect and its games are. Yeah micro. Is great with smoke and mirrors.

yeah thanks for the trip down memory lane.

azure got introduced in 2008 is working ever since without any significant problems.
kitch9
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:27 AM)
kitch9's Avatar

Originally Posted by Tagg9

But does Gaikai have 300,000 servers?

Ooh that sounds like a big number.

Must be good then.
Ironchef3500
Banned
(05-26-2013, 12:27 AM)

Originally Posted by Canis lupus

I don't buy that whole ''cloud making yo games look better'' thing, but if MS can do it why can't Gaikai which can do much more like streaming a whole game.

Neither do I. I have 8mb on a good day.
macewank
Member
(05-26-2013, 12:27 AM)
macewank's Avatar

Originally Posted by bigboss370

okay? and Diablo 3?

performs server side dice rolls to determine loot drops and hit/miss calculations. things that would not use any significant amount of processing power to do locally.

Thread Tools