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MLB - Official 2012 Season Thread: Where Curt Schilling & Marlins will never find us.
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TheNatural
My Member!
The Reds have moved up a ton in TV ratings lately over the past couple years. I've seen a few columns on it, but the ratings are up there with a lot of major market teams in baseball. Mainly because of the following the Reds have all throughout the area in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana.
This was from 2010, there was another from last year that the ratings were up:
I don't know what the final deal would be, but by being better the Reds have increased their value a ton the past couple years, and there's a huge following all around the area.
TheNatural
My Member!
I found this on Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Cincinnati-Reds_332528.html
I don't know if an updated one is out yet. There Reds had the 4th highest TV ratings in 2010. Build a contender and people start to care, shocker there.
The Reds have moved up a ton in TV ratings lately over the past couple years. I've seen a few columns on it, but the ratings are up there with a lot of major market teams in baseball. Mainly because of the following the Reds have all throughout the area in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana.
This was from 2010, there was another from last year that the ratings were up:
I don't know what the final deal would be, but by being better the Reds have increased their value a ton the past couple years, and there's a huge following all around the area.
To be clear, I wasn't talking about ratings but market size.
Rosenthal wrote an article that covers most of my problems (were I a Reds fan) with the deal:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...cinnati-reds-may-regret-huge-mega-deal-040212
As far as a dedicated fan base...apparently you don't listen to WLW. Those guys are constantly bitching about how fair weather Cincinnati fans are. Though to be fair that is generally in relation to in-park attendance, which always seems anemic. That's one of the things I love about living 30 minutes from Cincy, it's never hard to get a ticket!
TheNatural
My Member!
Well you suck 15 years without a playoff appearance, 10 years without even being over .500, and have a previous owner like Carl Linder that cared more about lining his pockets that running a team that's what happens. It's going to take a matter of years to turn around the support, 2010 was just a kickoff point really.
Rosenthal can say what he wants, but he's ignoring the past with the Reds. There were two options, try like hell to keep Votto, a homegrown star player and show your fans you actually give a damn, or let him go and once again try the usual 10 year rebuilding plan and destroy all that has been built trying to get people to care.
The fans don't give a damn about numbers, they'll just see once again, the Reds won't try to compete and concede they can't win.
Hmm, that's pretty close to what I want, thanks.
As far as Votto goes, love the guy but as a Jays fan who was daydreaming about him signing with Toronto it's probably for the best he gets locked up long term. If that's his going rate (and I think they overpaid a bit, no way anyone else was going to offer that right) I'm happy to not have that absurdly long contract hanging over our heads, and who knows if Joey would be the kind of guy who liked playing for his home town. Lol I'm still mulling over the hypotheticals on a deal that now can not ever happen.
BigJonsson
Member
I'm happy if all the big time free agents get locked up by teams that are not in the AL East
lol, have you heard of the Brewers? 3 million tickets year in and year out! WOOO
Personally I would have rather they extend Latos, Madson and Phillips (if realistic) and let Votto walk. This contract definitely costs them those players and Arroyo (who is gone anyway).
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Whats the Jays rotation this year?
TheNatural
My Member!
A small market team has no business spending that much money on a closer. I've been through this years now with Cordero, but it's ridiculous what pitching one inning at the end of the game is worth, and the better option is to just find a decent pen arm (like Marshall) and use him as closer. Having a high priced closer is like having caviar one day of the week and not eating anything the next six days for a small market team.
I liked the signing of Madson to shore up the pen, but it bit them in the ass now that he's out for the year. 8.5 mil down the shitter for nothing. I would burn any and all money wasted on any closer to go towards any part of Votto's contract, because Votto is actually worth it.
Romero, Morrow and Alvarez are the locks, as well as McGowan when he comes back because he's out-of-options. Drabek starts the year on the rotation, and people are saying Carreno gets one start.
When/if McGowan comes back in May, Drabek/Cecil are gonna get re-evaluated and they'll decide between the two again.
When/if McGowan comes back in May, Drabek/Cecil are gonna get re-evaluated and they'll decide between the two again.
Money is subjective. You got guys like Peter Angelos who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire if you took a penny from him, and other owners who are more willing to take risks. Castelinni has been virtually risk free so far, and a new TV contract is coming up
TheNatural
My Member!
Just because I have $100 in my pocket to last the week for food, doesn't mean I'm going to go spend $90 of it on a nice sit down dinner one night, and then eat ramen the rest of the week.
Money should go where it's most valuable, and most valuable has nothing to do with the closer "position." It's a waste of money. If you're then Yankees or Red Sox or other teams where your payroll is essentially limitless, that's fine - but dropping $9-$10 mil on a closer, especially at the cost of a chunk of an MVP players contract, is flat out ridiculous and idiotic.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Yea, I am just comparing it to the big market teams in baseball and even basketball. I mean the Lakers just signed a 20 year 3 billion dollar deal (a conservative estimate). $30 million annually? Man. Are there any estimates how much the Yankees take in annually thanks to the YES network?
Most owners in baseball spend based on the team's income which is understandable.
TheNatural
My Member!
He was being a smart ass and repasting what I said earlier about resigning Votto and applying it to what I think about how worthless money is to be spent on a closer if you have any sort of payroll restrictions.
Generally I agree with you on "closers" however Madsen is simply a valuable arm who will be an absolute bargain coming off of surgery.
The Reds giving Votto that contract simply makes no sense and hamstrings them going forward. The one positive is that I haven't seen anything about lunatic buyout option yeas or no trade clauses.
My awesome joke flew over your head.
TheNatural
My Member!
If he doesn't stick it to us that is. He has a 2.5 or 3.5 mil buyout, and his agent is Scott Boras. If we could get him for $4 or $5 mil period next year, I would take it.
I'm talking in terms of the last several years of Francisco Cordero being the flat out highest paid player on the team, just to get paid to come into the ninth inning up 3 runs, walk half the team, and then get out of a bases loaded jam having given up two runs.
Then we get to hear about what a great job he did and how he got the job done and don't bash the guy because he's the only one who knows how to be a closer and all this shit. Yeah, no, not going through that shit again.
I'll take any good bullpen arm for a reasonable price, but when the price becomes unreasonable because the guy has the closer tag applied to him, I'm not down with that, and that money was flat out wasted on Cordero.
not sure. its about the money had a interesting article on the yankees finances a few years ago
http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2010/11/29/money-to-burn-more-on-the-yankees’-budget/
TheNatural
My Member!
That's true, but the price tag itself constricted getting anyone else decent. And Cordero wasn't that good. His saves were dangerously close to being blown, with a fair share of them actually blown. That's literally not only paying a huge chunk of your payroll on someone in the most overrated "position" in baseball, but also using it on someone that wasn't good at it and actually hurt the team. Having Cordero was like paying someone to shoot you in the nuts.
If you have a decent minor league system and/or are a smart purchaser of valuable pen arms, you can create your own closer. What Cordero did for $10 mil, scrap heap guys like David Weathers and Todd Jones for the Reds over the years did on the cheap for basically nothing. That's the problem with closers, it's a lot of fucking money for an interchangable part you can do nearly as well, or possibly better, if you're smart. And if not? That usually means bigger problems with your whole pen if things go to shit, not just the closer position.
I never want to see the Reds waste the money they put on Cordero ever again, when there's always a better use of that kind of money.
You must not remember the disaster of 2006. Such a hilariously laughable bullpen!
But you make my point with Cordero. A contract like that restricts the ability of small market teams to adjust to their changing needs. Votto is getting more than twice what he ever got.
Yes, he is more valuable obviously, but the dollar amount is going to make it very difficult to replace Rolen, Phillips, Arroyo and find a LF.
But you make my point with Cordero. A contract like that restricts the ability of small market teams to adjust to their changing needs. Votto is getting more than twice what he ever got.
Yes, he is more valuable obviously, but the dollar amount is going to make it very difficult to replace Rolen, Phillips, Arroyo and find a LF.
With the Jays rather weak rotation it's scary how crucial Drabek may end up being this year. Thinking back to some of his starts last year, it's actually terrifying.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
$80 for sox bleachers, don't people know they're gunna suck?
they will be better than people think, but still shit. (i predicted them finishing second actually. That says more about how i feel about the division though).
BigJonsson
Member
Is the Wednesday game going to be on TV in Canada?
The Frankman
Banned
Ian Nova doesn't look too good right now. 3-0 Mets.
I am assuming you mean the white sox (I am pretty sure you were one of the people listed when I asked who was a white sox fan) thus I say... They have to pay for Rios, Dunn and Peavy somehow as their performances sure aren't going to pay for them :/
But yeah ticket prices are so freaken high... top that off with the fact that I got spoiled by sitting in the 300s for years with season tickets with my dad and I can't really stand bleachers anymore... I would much rather just watch the game at home so I could see whats going on (though being in good seats and watching the game live is always much much much better)
Since I moved away from my parents I will say though.... I miss the Pirates of the Caribbean theme leading into ac/dc's Thunderstruck lol
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Games are fun to attend after a nice drunken day at the beach.
What else is new?
TheNatural
My Member!
Well I believe there's a difference than signing an MVP caliber player for 20 plus mil, and Votto is about as sure of a thing as it gets, than otherwise spending $20 mil on spare parts and hoping they mold together.
And the bullpen in 2006 was bad, but wasting $10 mil on one part of it made the situation even worse. It was similar to when the Reds overpaid Eric Milton in one of the worst multi year deals ever because the starting pitching was horrible.
I'll overpay for top caliber talent, what I won't take is overpay for unvaluable parts that could also hurt the team as well if they're stupid about it. All the players you listed are replaceable, Votto isn't.
Yeah but there will be significant downgrades at three positions. That's why I was happy to see Fielder go (as opposed to paying him, still love him). The Brewers are a better overall team now than last year because they could upgrade the left side of their infield. Enjoy Casey McGehee at third next year!
On another note, I'm shocked at how few people are picking Cozart for RoY. He's gonna run away with it.
The Frankman
Banned
Weird considering he's had a fantastic spring so far. Might have something to do with him coming out of the bullpen.
Last outing of spring. 80% mode for pitchers, all out mode for hitters.
The Frankman
Banned
And meanwhile Pelfrey does his reverse thing just as planned. Another good outing for him, it's amazing how every spring he fucks around the first 3 weeks, and then his last 3 starts he always has his best outings. And of course he'll win his first 2 starts and give people hope before going full schizo again.
TheNatural
My Member!
Well that's not known yet. Arroyo sucked last year, Rolen sucked and barely played, so I wouldn't qualify them as even problems to be replaced. Phillips needs to be replaced, but these sorts of things have to be replaced from within from your drafting, with hopefully, guys like Cozart and Billy Hamilton.
Just like going out to the bars, a 4 a 4 and a 2 don't make a 10. You don't drop a guy like Votto for the sake of adding a little more mediocre bulk. You build your minor leagues and hope you have the replacement ready at those positions.
That is about the dumbest thing said this off-season. You let Votto walk but get $20m worth of left fielder and third basement you can almost certainly replace his production. It doesn't matter if production comes from one amazing guy or 7 really good guys. It's the overall level that matters. When dealing with a limited budget, spreading out production over as many pieces as possible is the wise way to go.
The Frankman
Banned
I cannot believe this switch-pitching motherfucker is pitching for the Yankees.
did he make the team?
not a chance. he has played one season of low-a short season (drafted last year). It's not the normal switch-pitcher they seemingly trot out every spring (Pat Venditte)
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
Damn wish I was home to see this live. Frank is sumthing wrong with Torres or was it just normal spring training substitution?
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