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Why is supposed progressive Glenn Greenwald on Fox News?

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Clipjoint

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Which is essentually saying it's all bullshit... because you know that's what stories of the WMDs in Iraq were.... bullshit.
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No, once again, he's saying that the atmosphere of smearing anyone who questions the anti-Russia stories (that end up being debunked over and over again) as a Putin stooge or Russia apologist is similar to the run up to the Iraq War, where people who demanded evidence for WMDs in Iraq were attacked as unpatriotic Saddam apologists.

Why is it so offensive for a journalist to say that other journalists should have higher standards? No one can deny that the Russia hysteria has been overblown and, to this day, there is still no proof that Russia impacted the election in any way. Once there is verifiable proof, then by all means publish the story.
 
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Beer Monkey

Member
He's a Putin shill.

Clipjoint said:
No, once again, he's saying that the atmosphere of smearing anyone who questions the anti-Russia stories (that end up being debunked over and over again) as a Putin stooge or Russia apologist is similar to the run up to the Iraq War, where people who demanded evidence for WMDs in Iraq were attacked as unpatriotic Saddam apologists.

Why is it so offensive for a journalist to say that other journalists should have higher standards? No one can deny that the Russia hysteria has been overblown and, to this day, there is still no proof that Russia impacted the election in any way. Once there is verifiable proof, then by all means publish the story.
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Fuck this whataboutism. Russia has been undersold, not overblown. It's not getting enough coverage or outrage.
 
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excelsiorlef

Member
Question for those saying he's right and obviously he's talking about Fox News too... does he say that?

Or does he just sit there while Tucker Carlson agrees with him, please remember Fox News pretend it's not part of the media....

So in that moment did Greenwald do literally anything to make it clear he's being critical of Fox News?

The answer is no, and thus what you have is, regardless of intent (and I'm being generous in allowing the idea that Greenwald had better intentions), Greenwald showing up shitting on the same media Carlson and Fox shit on with Carlson nodding and agreeing with Greenwald.


So what did he achieve here? Is seeing Carlson nod along and agree with Greenwald, who isn't making a clear statement against Fox News here, going to encourage any Fox News viewer to rethink anything?

Or are they going to see the nod and agreement as a reinforcement Fox News' campaign against other media outlets.
 
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Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Clipjoint said:
No, once again, he's saying that the atmosphere of smearing anyone who questions the anti-Russia stories (that end up being debunked over and over again) as a Putin stooge or Russia apologist is similar to the run up to the Iraq War, where people who demanded evidence for WMDs in Iraq were attacked as unpatriotic Saddam apologists.

Why is it so offensive for a journalist to say that other journalists should have higher standards? No one can deny that the Russia hysteria has been overblown and, to this day, there is still no proof that Russia impacted the election in any way. Once there is verifiable proof, then by all means publish the story.
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I'd like to see the rundown of these egregious errors in journalism he's concerned about. Has he compiled them?
 
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ken_matthews

Member
Well, I am not a fan of Greenwald at all; I think what he published from the Snowden leaks was grossly irresponsible. Snowden is not a hero and Greenwald is not a scrupulous journalist.

With that said, he is not wrong about media group think and insulated perspectives. There is some really good reporting in places like the WP and NTYs (and of course others), but there is also a lot of junk that gets passed as news and reporting. And it doesn't just come from right wing websites. I do not know if it is laziness, or social media or something else, but the news seems much more lethargic these days.


But what fake reports are coming out about Russia's involvement in our election? What are they even talking about? Is there a full length video anywhere for more context? From the clip, I do not know how he can be so dismissive about what Russia is doing. Sure, at the moment there is no evidence of direct collusion or some sort of quid pro quo with the Trump administration, and I am not sure there ever was real collusion, but frankly, that is not the point. There are mountains of evidence illustrating Russia's attack on our democracy and efforts to undermine our country's values. They are waging a war against us and half the country doesn't seem to care because their team won. We should be focused and fighting back, not playing these stupid partisan games that render our political system a bad cartoon. These people makes my blood boil....
 
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excelsiorlef

Member
Going on Fox News to talk about how bad the media is without making it explicit you mean especially Fox News is worthless..


Well he's not wrong is an empty statement in the context of where, to who and how he said it.
 
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ken_matthews

Member
Clipjoint said:
No one can deny that the Russia hysteria has been overblown and, to this day, there is still no proof that Russia impacted the election in any way. Once there is verifiable proof, then by all means publish the story.
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What Russia has been doing across Europe and in the US has been under blown. They are actively working to deconstruct democratic governments and undermine Western values. This isn't some hysteria or scapegoat; they are actually doing this and are succeeding.
 
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BlackDoomShadow

Member
Clipjoint said:
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28...ry-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/
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An absurd article. Greenwald notes that the state governments of Wisconsin and California denied the report and that DHS issued a correction about Wisconsin. He somehow extrapolates this to mean that all 21 states were innocent and that DHS made the entire thing up.

I don't have time to run through the other accusations he makes in the article because I feel this is sufficient to show how Greenwald operates. He is clearly biased and is deliberately misleading you. Wake up.
 
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Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Clipjoint said:
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28...ry-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/
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His major story about Wisconsin wasn't even debunked. Here's a story on the 30th that shows a rundown of each state and what happened with them.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/30/politics/states-targeted-by-russian-hackers/index.html

Hell, he's putting actual journalists on a list with CLAUDE TAYLOR and LOUISE MENSCH to make his list look bigger than the meager nothing he managed to dredge up.

This Kremlin troll is taking fools like you for a ride and you can't even see it. You question everything THE MEDIA and DEEP STATE tell you but some guy whose background, affiliations, and monetary connections are relatively unknown is not even questioned? You take five fucking minutes to research this so-called list of debunked stories and you see most weren't debunked at all.
 
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Clipjoint

Member
kitsunelaine said:
[extremely internet voice] well actually [actual serious voice now] We can't say it's been overblown until the investigation is concluded.

Don't jump the shark.
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The only people jumping the shark are the journalists who spread every Russia conspiracy theory without checking their veracity, and then being silent when the stories are debunked.

For all of the anti-Russia hysteria in the past year, there is still no verifiable evidence that they hacked, influenced, or altered the election. I know everyone is hoping there's a smoking gun so Trump can be impeached, but if it existed it would have come out already.
 
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Beer Monkey

Member
Clipjoint said:
The only people jumping the shark are the journalists who spread every Russia conspiracy theory without checking their veracity, and then being silent when the stories are debunked.

For all of the anti-Russia hysteria in the past year, there is still no verifiable evidence that they hacked, influenced, or altered the election. I know everyone is hoping there's a smoking gun so Trump can be impeached, but if it existed it would have come out already.
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You are concern trolling. Stop it.

This investigation is barely started. Study your history. This doesn't work they way you are claiming.
 
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Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Clipjoint said:
The only people jumping the shark are the journalists who spread every Russia conspiracy theory without checking their veracity, and then being silent when the stories are debunked.

For all of the anti-Russia hysteria in the past year, there is still no verifiable evidence that they hacked, influenced, or altered the election. I know everyone is hoping there's a smoking gun so Trump can be impeached, but if it existed it would have come out already.
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Again, how about you apply that same level of deep skepticism to the person telling you it's all just an illusion, look away, nothing to see here.
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
ken_matthews said:
What Russia has been doing across Europe and in the US has been under blown. They are actively working to deconstruct democratic governments and undermine Western values. This isn't some hysteria or scapegoat; they are actually doing this and are succeeding.
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You mean they're doing what the US, and every other major country in the world, have done for decades? Great, we should go to war with them now.

It wasn't the Russians who got Donald Trump elected. The good old red blooded Americans did that all on their own.
 
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excelsiorlef

Member
Clipjoint said:
The only people jumping the shark are the journalists who spread every Russia conspiracy theory without checking their veracity, and then being silent when the stories are debunked.

For all of the anti-Russia hysteria in the past year, there is still no verifiable evidence that they hacked, influenced, or altered the election. I know everyone is hoping there's a smoking gun so Trump can be impeached, but if it existed it would have come out already.
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Wait you realize Russia can still have done a ton of stuff without it being directly in coordination with Trump right?

Also saying Russia story is fake because Trump hasn't been impeached is ummm lacking in intellectual rigour
 
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Muffin1611

Banned
Clipjoint said:
The only people jumping the shark are the journalists who spread every Russia conspiracy theory without checking their veracity, and then being silent when the stories are debunked.

For all of the anti-Russia hysteria in the past year, there is still no verifiable evidence that they hacked, influenced, or altered the election. I know everyone is hoping there's a smoking gun so Trump can be impeached, but if it existed it would have come out already.
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Articles about direct manipulation of voting systems aren't entirely correct and you extrapolate from that that everything is just anti-Russia hysteria? Including all the reported indirect manipulation measures Russia has taken?
 
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Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Clipjoint said:
You mean they're doing what the US, and every other major country in the world, have done for decades? Great, we should go to war with them now.
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If all else fails, resort back to the one true siren call: whataboutism.

For your sake, I hope you're getting paid to be a troll. Because if this is being done for free it's even sadder than I can imagine.
 
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Clipjoint

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Again, how about you apply that same level of deep skepticism to the person telling you it's all just an illusion, look away, nothing to see here.
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If the evidence comes out, great. That would be fantastic. I'd be thrilled. But until then, I'm not concerned with what Russia did or didn't do. I'm concerned over the fact that we're a year away from the election and the Democrats still don't have a strategy in place to win in 2018 or 2020 that doesn't involve fear-mongering against Donald Trump. That's the real threat the journalists should be focused on, but that doesn't get clicks the way the Russia stories do.
 
llien

llien

Member
Is there a link to entire conversation?
I don't see anything even remotely condemnation worthy in the excerpt.

Clipjoint said:
No, once again, he's saying that the atmosphere of smearing anyone who questions the anti-Russia stories (that end up being debunked over and over again) as a Putin stooge or Russia apologist is similar to the run up to the Iraq War, where people who demanded evidence for WMDs in Iraq were attacked as unpatriotic Saddam apologists.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you refer to as "anti Russia stories", stories about how Russia tried to influence US elections? Including surprising ways:

Exclusive: Even Pokémon Go used by extensive Russian-linked meddling effort?

That Russia had tried to influence US elections is hardly disputable. On the other hand, how effective those attempts were is not measurable at this point and hence highly arguable.

Regardless, I don't see why the impact even matters.
For me it's clear like sunny day, Russia attacked US using social media, US MUST respond to it.
 
C

CaviarMeths

Member
Clipjoint said:
If the evidence comes out, great. That would be fantastic. I'd be thrilled. But until then, I'm not concerned with what Russia did or didn't do. I'm concerned over the fact that we're a year away from the election and the Democrats still don't have a strategy in place to win in 2018 or 2020 that doesn't involve fear-mongering against Donald Trump. That's the real threat the journalists should be focused on, but that doesn't get clicks the way the Russia stories do.
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Remind me of the platform that got Donald Trump elected again?
 
C

Curious Puppy

Banned
Glenn Greenwald is a massive piece of shit and has been ever since Snowden fled to Russia, but this quote in particular is not even in the top 20 damning quotes you could have found on him.

Clipjoint said:
If the evidence comes out, great. That would be fantastic. I'd be thrilled. But until then, I'm not concerned with what Russia did or didn't do. I'm concerned over the fact that we're a year away from the election and the Democrats still don't have a strategy in place to win in 2018 or 2020 that doesn't involve fear-mongering against Donald Trump. That's the real threat the journalists should be focused on, but that doesn't get clicks the way the Russia stories do.
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You're not fucking fooling anyone.

"If evidence comes out" lmao, that must be the most used line from r/t_d posters who come over here to waste their own time.

Melkr_ said:
This is also Russia´s fault smh.

I am sure Glenn is totally onboard with the gay-murdering Russian regime, like some people always claim without any back up other than "he said mean things about Hillary-sama and DNC-senpai!". Is downright offensive.

The guy loves to be confrontational and antagonistic, but ugh, centrist liberals in full Russia hysteria aint much different.
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Wow, r/t_d really is out in force tonight. Hillary's emails. Amazing.
 
A

And_Gignac

Member
This is also Russia´s fault smh.

I am sure Glenn is totally onboard with the gay-murdering Russian regime, like some people always claim without any back up other than "he said mean things about Hillary-sama and DNC-senpai!". Is downright offensive.

The guy loves to be confrontational and antagonistic, but ugh, centrist liberals in full Russia hysteria aint much different.


Curious Puppy said:
Glenn Greenwald is a massive piece of shit and has been ever since Snowden fled to Russia, but this quote in particular is not even in the top 20 damning quotes you could have found on him.



You're not fucking fooling anyone.

"If evidence comes out" lmao, that must be the most used line from r/t_d posters who come over here to waste their own time.



Wow, r/t_d really is out in force tonight. Hillary's emails. Amazing.
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Nah, dont even try it. I donteven know or care what that video is about, I am just responding to OP question. Sometimes people are on Fox News without being a themselves a right wing nutjob or a "Kremlin troll".
 
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excelsiorlef

Member
People realize Greenwald isn't a President, Presidential candidate, or a Politician right?

Like going but Clinton, but Obama is a pretty weak argument.


Also umm who tweeted out that video clip...oh right Fox News itself.... So I ask again is there anything in that statement that clearly demonstrates he was calling out Fox News too? Or did he just allow himself to be a useful soundbite in Fox News' war against actual news media?
 
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JABEE

Member
Clipjoint said:
You mean they're doing what the US, and every other major country in the world, have done for decades? Great, we should go to war with them now.

It wasn't the Russians who got Donald Trump elected. The good old red blooded Americans did that all on their own.
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Getting caught doing this shit is a big deal. There is a lot of smoke to say there is no fire.

Also, Russia being responsible for successfully working with a Presidential Candidate to subvert a political race is a huge story.

If they did interfere in a way that was intimate and in coordination with a candidate in the race, that does change the election.

We are all waiting to find out the whole story on what happened. This story is evolving.

I don't think someone should be called unpatriotic or a Russian conspirator for saying they want some more proof, but I personally am convinced something went down with the things we do have verified about the Trump campaign's relationship with agents of Putin.

Edit: Also, just because the United States meddles in other Democracies, doesn't mean we shouldn't be pissed off if a foreign power tries to topple or subvert our institutions.
 
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ken_matthews

Member
Clipjoint said:
You mean they're doing what the US, and every other major country in the world, have done for decades? Great, we should go to war with them now.

It wasn't the Russians who got Donald Trump elected. The good old red blooded Americans did that all on their own.
Click to expand...

Do you really think there is a moral equivalence between Western democratic values and Putin perverted view of the world?

EDIT: I'll grant you that there is no way to know what effect Russia's influence campaign had on our election results. But the tactics they are employing are demonstrably effective at manipulating sentiments and creating a movement with critical mass.
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
llien said:
Is there a link to entire conversation?
I don't see anything even remotely condemnation worthy in the excerpt.



Not sure what you refer to as "anti Russia stories", stories about how Russia tried to influence US elections? Including surprising ways:

Exclusive: Even Pokémon Go used by extensive Russian-linked meddling effort?

That Russia had tried to influence US elections is hardly disputable. On the other hand, how effective those attempts were is not measurable at this point and hence highly arguable.

Regardless, I don't see why the impact even matters.
For me it's clear like sunny day, Russia attacked US using social media, US MUST respond to it.
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From the article you posted about Pokemon Go

It's unclear what the people behind the contest hoped to accomplish, though it may have been to remind people living near places where these incidents had taken place of what had happened and to upset or anger them.
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This is a perfect example of the type of hysteria Greenwald is talking about. The Russia-Pokemon Go story was blasted all over social media, and yet no one can explain how exactly Russia was supposedly using Pokemon Go to influence the election. They created a fake Black Lives Matter contest? That's it? It doesn't make any sense at all. Why aren't the journalists asking questions, instead of just fishing for clicks on such a clickbaity story? Why is there no longer a need to connect the dots and explain how such a ridiculous plot was supposed to have influenced the election?
 
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jellies_two

Member
IC connected people claim greenwald is pretty much a stooge for putin. Witting or unwitting he follows the "both sides" method that putin and Chomsky and assange and RT are so fond of.
 
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And_Gignac

Member
Clipjoint said:
You mean they're doing what the US, and every other major country in the world, have done for decades? Great, we should go to war with them now.

It wasn't the Russians who got Donald Trump elected. The good old red blooded Americans did that all on their own.
Click to expand...

I also think this is a big part of the Russian narrative. Like, yeah, 100k in Facebook ads (would someone really change their vote due to a FB ad? like, would that really be the decisive factor?) against 1 billion from Dems.

I am on the side that the elections should be invalidated due to the Russian meddling. But not because I believe it was Russias meddling that elected Trump. It was America. The USA decided to have him as their president. And thats a really hard pill to swallow for some people.

The more this narrative persists the more insecure Americans will feel about their own democracy. And, well, I think that was basically Putins objective all along.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Because the "russia directly meddled in the election therefore Trump is illegitimate and Clinton team is absolved for their shitty loss" story is overexaggerrated red scare mcarthy era hysteria, trumped up to subbvert media conversations about real issues and a play from democratic strategists like John podesta in the first place to put out a convenient narrative against Trump after the whole embarrassing DNC leak took place where they had to fire people.

Real trump collusion with places like turkey and saudi arabia is ignored or downplayed. And generally speaking, after the Obama era "controversies" just uncovered with Russia, it makes all the red scare hysteria coming from nowhere even more silly.

Its been almost a year since the election and all anyone can come up with is "Russian companies bought some ads."

If you could not tell, i'm on Greewald's side. I would not have gone onto fox news, but if your gonna try and spread your view, anywhere is fine IMO.

And seriously, trying to attack Nomiki for calling out russia hysteria is sexist claptrap.

If you wanna play on team democrat and bash anyone who criticizes them instead of actually standing for consistent principled stances, then your conceding the argument that you are a hypocrite on issues important to the American people and are hurting the leftist fight against fascism, corruption, despotism, and social justice.
 
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excelsiorlef

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Because the "russia directly meddled in the election therefore Trump is illegitimate and Clinton team is absolved for their shitty loss" story is overexaggerrated red scare mcarthy era hysteria, trumped up to subbvert media conversations about real issues and a play from democratic strategists like John podesta in the first place to put out a convenient narrative against Trump after the whole embarrasing DNC leak took place where they had to fire people.

Real trump collusion with places like turkey and saudi arabia is ignored or downplayed. And generally speaking, after the Obama era "controversies" just uncovered, it makes all the red scare hysteria coming from nowhere even more silly.

Its been almost a year since the election and all anyone can come up with is "Russian companies bought some ads."

If you could not tell, i'm on Greewald's side. I would not have gone onto fox news, but if your gonna try and spread your view, anywhere is fine IMO.
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Man you managed to be more Greenwaldian than Greenwald... he just compared it to WMDs in Iraq... you went full scale calling everyone McCarthyists... Congrats.

Do you think anyone who watches Fox News was swayed to now look at Fox News differently after hearing Greenwald say what he said and seeing Carlson nodding in agreement and then seeing Fox News's official twitter account share this clip?
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
ken_matthews said:
Do you really think there is a moral equivalence between Western democratic values and Putin perverted view of the world?

EDIT: I'll grant you that there is no way to know what effect Russia's influence campaign had on our election results. But the tactics they are employing are demonstrably effective at manipulating sentiments and creating a movement with critical mass.
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What tactics? What exactly did they do? They spent $100,000 on Facebook ads? For a media buy, that's a drop in the bucket. It gets you nowhere. Hillary spent $565 million on her campaign.

On the list of reasons why Trump got elected, Russia is somewhere near the bottom. Your racist Aunt Helen was more affected by watching Fox News everyday than she was by seeing a story about Hillary being a secret lesbian with Huma on Facebook.
 
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Muzy72

Banned
It’s hilarious (or sad?) how many people on the left are dumb enough to fall for talking points by these “progressives” who literally only shit on Democrats, especially going to fucking propaganda networks like Fox News to do it. Why focus on the travesties caused by Trump when we can shit on the DNC / Hillary Clinton who “stole” the election from Bernie amirite.

How fucking dumb are some of y’all to not see through obvious propaganda?
 
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Muffin1611

Banned
There's enough to talk about when it comes to Russia even without US election interference talk. Dismissing all of it as "anti-Russia hysteria" when Russia is literally receiving sanctions for all the shit they pulled recently is complete bull.
 
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CrimzonSamurai

Member
Clipjoint said:
He didn't back Ron Paul in 2012. That's completely made up.
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He's on record saying that Paul was better than Obama on a swathe of issues. Mainly issues that concern rolling back American foreign intervention. I mean his argument almost makes sense, if you were viewing the entire election through the lens of drone strikes and just about nothing else.

Yes, I'm willing to continue to have Muslim children slaughtered by covert drones and cluster bombs, and America's minorities imprisoned by the hundreds of thousands for no good reason, and the CIA able to run rampant with no checks or transparency, and privacy eroded further by the unchecked Surveillance State, and American citizens targeted by the President for assassination with no due process, and whistleblowers threatened with life imprisonment for "espionage," and the Fed able to dole out trillions to bankers in secret, and a substantially higher risk of war with Iran (fought by the U.S. or by Israel with U.S. support) in exchange for less severe cuts to Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs, the preservation of the Education and Energy Departments, more stringent environmental regulations, broader health care coverage, defense of reproductive rights for women, stronger enforcement of civil rights for America's minorities, a President with no associations with racist views in a newsletter, and a more progressive Supreme Court.
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So, yeah, every right-thinking person in the country should be willing to make that trade, given that the other option on the table in the article would maybe stop the drone strikes and maybe roll back surveillance at the expense of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act and every single other thing progressives find valuable about the federal government.

But, hey, Ron Paul, legal heroin, amirite?

https://www.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/
 
K

kirblar

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Because the "russia directly meddled in the election therefore Trump is illegitimate and Clinton team is absolved for their shitty loss" story is overexaggerrated red scare mcarthy era hysteria, trumped up to subbvert media conversations about real issues and a play from democratic strategists like John podesta in the first place to put out a convenient narrative against Trump after the whole embarrassing DNC leak took place where they had to fire people.

Real trump collusion with places like turkey and saudi arabia is ignored or downplayed. And generally speaking, after the Obama era "controversies" just uncovered with Russia, it makes all the red scare hysteria coming from nowhere even more silly.

Its been almost a year since the election and all anyone can come up with is "Russian companies bought some ads."

If you could not tell, i'm on Greewald's side. I would not have gone onto fox news, but if your gonna try and spread your view, anywhere is fine IMO.

And seriously, trying to attack Nomiki for calling out russia hysteria is sexist claptrap.

If you wanna play on team democrat and bash anyone who criticizes them instead of actually standing for consistent principled stances, then your conceding the argument that you are a hypocrite on issues important to the American people.
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When you say "distracting from the real issues" what "real issues" are you talking about? Because we've been up to our eyeballs in healthcare talk! And plenty of other talk about issues that the Trump admin has been screwing up.
 
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jellies_two

Member
You can't compare ad buys it's clicks and views and likes.

If I advertise (by lying) free iPads I don't have to spend much to light a fire under time lines, the ad buy is just
the spark. If someone advertises with lying political ads that Hillary is a child molester, and someone "likes" this bullsht article, and then I have that user any future content goes straight into their timeline for free.

We don't actually know how far and how much the Russian content travelled but some people who study how things propagate believe it was far in excess of what you would imagine.

Remember: Facebook is a 4d monster we only get to see slices of it as it passes through. It's very difficult to know exactly what's going on and Facebook seems reluctant to open their data in fact they appear to be closing it up.
 
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JettDash

Junior Member
kirblar said:
When you say "distracting from the real issues" what "real issues" are you talking about? Because we've been up to our eyeballs in healthcare talk! And plenty of other talk about issues that the Trump admin has been screwing up.
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Surely if Democrats only talked about "real" issues, authoritarian dumbass Trump supporters would be on our side!!
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
CrimzonSamurai said:
He's on record saying that Paul was better than Obama on a swathe of issues. Mainly issues that concern rolling back American foreign intervention. I mean his argument almost makes sense, if you were viewing the entire election through the lens of drone strikes and just about nothing else.



So, yeah, every right-thinking person in the country should be willing to make that trade, given that the other option on the table in the article would maybe stop the drone strikes and maybe roll back surveillance at the expense of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act and every single other thing progressives find valuable about the federal government.

But, hey, Ron Paul, legal heroin, amirite?

https://www.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/
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Paul was better than Obama on a swathe of issues. He was worse than Obama on many other issues. That's how you politics works when you ignore the red team blue team game. That doesn't mean Greenwald supported Ron Paul, though. He openly and repeatedly rejected and denounced the notion that he was "endorsing" Ron Paul by pointing out there areas where his platform was more progressive than Obama's.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Clipjoint said:
Paul was better than Obama on a swathe of issues. He was worse than Obama on many other issues. That's how you politics works when you ignore the red team blue team game. That doesn't mean Greenwald supported Ron Paul, though. He openly and repeatedly rejected and denounced the notion that he was "endorsing" Ron Paul by pointing out there areas where his platform was more progressive than Obama's.
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Ignoring the blue team red team game is a very terrible idea when even the most liberal R or conservative D votes with the party the vast vast majority of the time.

The "bipartisanship" is a lie that voters eat up like cats going right for milk spilled on the kitchen floor.
 
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Clipjoint

Member
kirblar said:
Ignoring the blue team red team game is a very terrible idea when even the most liberal R or conservative D votes with the party the vast vast majority of the time.

The "bipartisanship" is a lie that voters eat up like cats going right for milk spilled on the kitchen floor.
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Good thing Greenwald is a journalist and not a Senator, then.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Greenwald and others have a point when they criticize the medias craze about Russia.
I see this reporting doing more harm than good and so far not much of anything has come from it and honestly, I don't think anything major will ever come from it.

If bots, ads and a few leaks are all it takes to make Americans elect a tyrant, the problem isn't Russia but the American voter.

The media, Hillary Clinton and many others are always busy trying to externalize blame. Talking about Russia, talking about Trump etc.
But the truth is that HRCs loss was due to a major fuck up in the democratic party. You had a winning strategy on hand and chose to run on an unpopular centrist message instead. Not just that, you even went ahead and fought the "populist" left wing message.
Populist is the word many Americans use, but I wouldn't call it that. Its more common sense than populism. Basically what it is: Taking the ideas that worked great in Europe and trying to implement them in the US.
Europe is way more left than the US, but nobody would call any of their governments a "populist left wing" government.

If the democratic party continues its centrist/center right approach they will ensure many more Republican wins.
The answer to Trump isn't moving further to the right, but further to the left.



Greenwald loses loads of credibility for his support of Assange, though. Assange and Wikileaks are propaganda tools. He should recognize that and not respond with whataboutism.
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
Clipjoint said:
Paul was better than Obama on a swathe of issues. He was worse than Obama on many other issues. That's how you politics works when you ignore the red team blue team game. That doesn't mean Greenwald supported Ron Paul, though. He openly and repeatedly rejected and denounced the notion that he was "endorsing" Ron Paul by pointing out there areas where his platform was more progressive than Obama's.
Click to expand...

He wasn't actually better on anything. The guy's whole shtick was "I don't govern, I vote no on everything because there should be no federal government." The guy had an idiotic base and he played to them and them alone.

Regardless, there's no reason to write that article other than to say "Hey Obama sucks maybe consider this crotchety racist with legal weed instead because Muslim babies." If you want to make a point about the surveillance state or American interventionism that's just fine, but there's no reason to hold Ron Paul as some kind of beacon of like, 3 progressive ideals when the rest of his platform is to completely destroy the main tool of progressivism in the US - the federal government.

Point being Greenwald isn't a principled progressive, he's just a shit-stirrer, whose only loyalty is to himself. Far and above any commitment to the ideals he claims to hold to so securely. The guy uses that platform to stir the shit because that's how he feeds himself.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Melkr_ said:
Nah, dont even try it. I donteven know or care what that video is about, I am just responding to OP question. Sometimes people are on Fox News without being a themselves a right wing nutjob or a "Kremlin troll".
Click to expand...

Then, why even respond?

This is lazy, but then again you are a hilarious caricature anymore, so I can't say i'm surprised.


The far left Russian Apologists on this forum are embarrassing.
 
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