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People accidentally buy stuff on PS4; Sony does not offer refunds

S

Sophia

Member
jimi_dini said:
Maybe, just maybe those customers bought a PS4 and wanted to use the DS4 for both PS3 + PS4. Which is even an advertised feature. Pair it with PS4 and connect it via USB for PS3, because PS3 will only support it that way. Makes sense to me.
Click to expand...

If they want to do that, they can do that. I use my Dualshock 4 all the time with my PS3 and PC. It's not Sony's problem that the user activated the wireless functionality of the controller (coupling it to the PS4), then failed to disable it. :p

Dantis said:
I mean, the PS4 doesn't even need to be off. He just needed to disconnect it from his PS4. It's like, four button presses.
Click to expand...

Yup. It actually makes me wonder why the owner didn't disable it, seeing as there's no reason to have it waste battery if all they're doing is downloading updates.
 
J

jimi_dini

Member
Rocky said:
When you connect it to a PS4 via USB, its still coupled only with that PS4 and would have to be coupled to another PS4 before it could control it. When you connect it to a PS3 via cable, its not "coupled", that's why it only has basic functions.
Click to expand...

Sony implemented that feature, so that DS4 works on PS3 somewhat. It didn't happen by accident. Sony did it on purpose and didn't think about exactly that situation.

And this doesn't answer my question: Why in the hell is it sending wireless commands - which definitely includes button presses - although it's connected via USB and sending those button presses via cable as well. What's the reason for this?

Sophia said:
If they want to do that, they can do that. I use my Dualshock 4 all the time with my PS3 and PC. It's not Sony's problem that the user activated the wireless functionality of the controller, then failed to disable it. :p
Click to expand...

So you knew about this and you disable "wireless" all the time when switching between PS4 and PS3? Because I wouldn't have done that as well. I would have assumed that the controller either sends commands via cable or wireless.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
Sophia said:
If they want to do that, they can do that. I use my Dualshock 4 all the time with my PS3 and PC. It's not Sony's problem that the user activated the wireless functionality of the controller, then failed to disable it. :p
Click to expand...

It's not Sony's fault that the user did this, but it is Sony's fault that they have designed a system where it can happen. I mean, is there a single reason why a person would need to control a PS3 and a PS4 at the same time? I'd say there isn't, and so the controller should not have been designed to allow it under any circumstance at all.

Sony have acknowledged that it is designed at least partially to be compatible with the PS3, so they really should have ironed little quirks like this out of it entirely before releasing it and since they didn't, a refund as a gesture of goodwill is hardly an obscene request.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Accidentally buy stuff on PS4 when using DS4 on PS3. Sony refusing refunds


That should have been your thread title.
 
M

MoGamesXNA

Unconfirmed Member
In Australia that wouldn't fly and they'd have to give a refund irrespective of their 'terms and conditions' of purchase. Accidental digital purchases happen. While scrolling through apps on the IOS marketplace on my iPad 2 last year, I bought a useless $20 app with an accidental tap. Fortunately I got my money back. Hah. That rhymes.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
I'm not surprised, PSN Customer Service is an actual joke. After having £30 stole from my hacked PSN account, I finally got the money back after two weeks, but will remain locked out of my PSN and all games and services for "another week probably, we're not sure".
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
reptilescorpio said:
I thought Sony give you one free do over?



Sounds like a nice way to get free rentals on Playstation.
Click to expand...

Sony dont give free one-overs. Sony Australia in particular are absolutely rubbish for customer service.

This post is interesting though:

MoGamesXNA said:
In Australia that wouldn't fly and they'd have to give a refund irrespective of their 'terms and conditions' of purchase. Accidental digital purchases happen. While scrolling through apps on the IOS marketplace on my iPad 2 last year, I bought a useless $20 app with an accidental tap. Fortunately I got my money back. Hah. That rhymes.
Click to expand...

Sony should start following the law here. Maybe start refunding Fifa hacks while theyre at it.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Psycho_Mantis said:
This. Its not even their fault. Refunds don't work like that lol.

It is weird that its controlling the PS4 as well. If theres proof then you can say Sony messed up and demand a refund although did they not say not use DS4 for the PS3?
Click to expand...
No, they say on their website that the DS4 can be used on the PS3. That's advocacy.

If Sony knew this was possible, I'm positive they would put a warning on their website. As it stands, it's an oversight on their part.

I also like how so many people are acting like it's common sense to have your PS4 off when using your DS4 on the PS3 (confirmation bias) while Sony's support staff is still denying that it's even possible.
 
I

Into

Member
Are you kidding me?

People do not realize both consoles are on? The PS4 is rather quite, but people dont notice the massive light coming out of it? Unplug the PS4 then, problem solved, is it not?
 
P

Pain

Banned
How is that Sonys fault? How can someone prove it was accidental? You see that's why they're not offering refunds.
 
J

Joni

Member
Cthulhu_Steev said:
Controllers have to be paired with USB if you want to use them with a different PS3.
Click to expand...
There is a brief second where it doesn't know.

jimi_dini said:
Sony implemented that feature, so that DS4 works on PS3 somewhat. It didn't happen by accident. Sony did it on purpose and didn't think about exactly that situation.
Click to expand...

toythatkills said:
It's not Sony's fault that the user did this, but it is Sony's fault that they have designed a system where it can happen. I mean, is there a single reason why a person would need to control a PS3 and a PS4 at the same time? I'd say there isn't, and so the controller should not have been designed to allow it under any circumstance at all..
Click to expand...
It is general USB technology. They also somewhat work on the PC without any drivers from Sony, which is a completely different system. The PS3 at least expects input from a similar device. And they would have to use similar protocols on both consoles to support the Move. It is just an accident the DS4 also works.
 
R

Rocky

Banned
Socreges said:
No, they say on their website that the DS4 can be used on the PS3. That's advocacy.

If Sony knew this was possible, I'm positive they would put a warning on their website. As it stands, it's an oversight on their part.

I also like how so many people are acting like it's common sense to have your PS4 off when using your DS4 on the PS3 (confirmation bias) while Sony's support staff is still denying that it's even possible.
Click to expand...

Um, it kinda is common sense. How many people are playing 2 consoles at the same time? I'm sure it is not many.

cyberheater said:
It's still better then your horrible thread title.
Click to expand...

True. The title should be changed. Dark Souls II really has nothing to do with the issue and the game itself certainly isn't buying anything on the store.
 
C

Cthulhu_Steev

Member
jimi_dini said:
Sony implemented that feature, so that DS4 works on PS3 somewhat. It didn't happen by accident. Sony did it on purpose and didn't think about exactly that situation.

And this doesn't answer my question: Why in the hell is it sending wireless commands - which definitely includes button presses - although it's connected via USB and sending those button presses via cable as well. What's the reason for this?



So you knew about this and you disable "wireless" all the time when switching between PS4 and PS3? Because I wouldn't have done that as well. I would have assumed that the controller either sends commands via cable or wireless.
Click to expand...

It sends wireless command to the PS4 if it was paired, used and not turned off before plugging it into the PS3 by USB while the PS4 is on. It doesn't pair with the PS3 at all, why wouldn't it keep sending wireless commands to when you do that?
 
T

toythatkills

Member
Into said:
Are you kidding me?

People do not realize both consoles are on? The PS4 is rather quite, but people dont notice the massive light coming out of it? Unplug the PS4 then, problem solved, is it not?
Click to expand...

Read the OP?

He knew the console was on, he just assumed that connecting the controller via a cable to a PS3 would stop it from sending a wireless signal and so would stop controlling the PS4, which is an assumption that a hell of a lot of people would make before seeing this thread I would wager.
 
I

Into

Member
Socreges said:
I also like how so many people are acting like it's common sense to have your PS4 off when using your DS4 on the PS3 (confirmation bias) while Sony's support staff is still denying that it's even possible.
Click to expand...


Is it common sense to realize that 2 of your consoles are turned on? One has light coming out of it!?

toythatkills said:
Read the OP?

He knew the console was on, he just assumed that connecting the controller via a cable to a PS3 would stop it from sending a wireless signal and so would stop controlling the PS4, which is an assumption that a hell of a lot of people would make before seeing this thread I would wager.
Click to expand...

He assumed the PS4 would "know" he was playing on his PS3 then and would stop controlling the PS4? Yeah i very much Sony had engineers work on something like this.

Your dog can also accidentally step on your PS4 controller, press the turn on button, and proceed to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on store, i doubt Sony engineers designed the buttons so that dog and cat paws do not function on the controller.
 
A

AstuteClass

Banned
lol wait, Sony's call centre advisor's supervisor refused to talk to the guy? Isn't that like... them not doing their job properly?
 
S

Sophia

Member
jimi_dini said:
So you knew about this and you disable "wireless" all the time when switching between PS4 and PS3? Because I wouldn't have done that as well. I would have assumed that the controller either sends commands via cable or wireless.
Click to expand...

Of course I disable the wireless if I previously paired it up with the PS4. Why would I even expect it to work at all if it was already coupled with it?

toythatkills said:
It's not Sony's fault that the user did this, but it is Sony's fault that they have designed a system where it can happen. I mean, is there a single reason why a person would need to control a PS3 and a PS4 at the same time? I'd say there isn't, and so the controller should not have been designed to allow it under any circumstance at all.

Sony have acknowledged that it is designed at least partially to be compatible with the PS3, so they really should have ironed little quirks like this out of it entirely before releasing it and since they didn't, a refund as a gesture of goodwill is hardly an obscene request.
Click to expand...

For what its worth, the Dualshock 3 appears to behave the same way as the Dualshock 4 when used on the PC. There's no way to test it under a more ideal situation given that the Dualshock 3 doesn't work on the PS4.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Yagharek said:
Sony dont give free one-overs. Sony Australia in particular are absolutely rubbish for customer service.
Click to expand...

I agree the 2 guys running Sony Aus are shit but we've had tons of posts in the past on GAF about Sony offering a one time only refund of a digital purchase, not sure if it's just US or other regions too.
 
F

Famassu

Member
Joni said:
You're just sending out a wireless signal that could be picked upo by anything in the neighbourhood. A DualShock 3 can turn on two different PS3 consoles too.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it can't. At least my Dualshock 3 doesn't turn on my PS3 if I have used that Dualshock 3 on any other PS3, before I plug in the USB cord.
 
B

BigDug13

Member
toythatkills said:
Like he said, he was downloading updates, and it didn't occur to him that connecting via a wire to a PS3 would allow the controller to continue to send a signal to the PS4.

Silly in hindsight, sure, but a perfectly reasonable assumption at the time.
Click to expand...

But the PS4 downloads updates in stand by. Why keep it turned on for updates?
 
FeiRR

FeiRR

Banned
jimi_dini said:
And this doesn't answer my question: Why in the hell is it sending wireless commands - which definitely includes button presses - although it's connected via USB and sending those button presses via cable as well. What's the reason for this?
Click to expand...

The reason for this is you may want to charge your controller while still playing and the charger doesn't necessarily have to be your PS4.

I'm all against "I'm stupid so I'm entitled" but there should be some way to get a refund for any digital purchase in reasonable time (say 15 minutes) and this pertains to all platforms.

Edit: DS3 behaved in the same way. When I had it wired to PC, unplugging it turned my PS3 on so it was paired, that's why I prefer to have a separate controller for PC now. But it is not possible to pair it over BT to two different consoles at once.
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
jimi_dini said:
Someone in this thread owns 2 PS3s and could check this? Would be very interesting.
Click to expand...

Wish I'd seen this sooner. Definitely does not work. My friends tend to use their PS3s at once in the same room, so often there's three going at the same time. If a controller is synced to one system, then even after it shuts off it'll just turn on the one it's synced to.
 
H

hesido

Member
Shining Sunshine said:
Makes no difference since people can still accidentally purchase off the store after toggling it off.

People just need to be smarter.
Click to expand...

But when you willingly turn off that option that protects you, how's that not a different case? Still not ideal that random tapping buys stuff, but much better. By default, the current setup offers no such protection.

Why is it that, when people are willingly buying things, they don't need to be smart enough to enter a code / password or even require the final confirmation to be actively selected (which reduces the chances A LOT) by changing the direction, but they need to be smart enough because the system offers no protection by default?

Even the final confirmation screen requires you tapping X, without even an extra directional input. Is that justified, so us not so smart people can buy stuff? Is this too much hassle for smart people to have that extra directional input? How much revenue would be lost if Sony added just that directional change? Even that extra little step could reduce those accidents.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
reptilescorpio said:
I agree the 2 guys running Sony Aus are shit but we've had tons of posts in the past on GAF about Sony offering a one time only refund of a digital purchase, not sure if it's just US or other regions too.
Click to expand...

We've also had tons of posts about Sony not refunding Fifa hacks and banning accounts where scammed users go for bank chargebacks.

Sony basically are hiding behind terms of service rather than upholding reasonable claims for refunds - such as this one.
 
I

Into

Member
I thought this was going to be some sort of deal where installing DS2 on the PS3, automatically bought all the DLC for it, if that was the case then Sony should get railed on. Because that is precisely what the thread title is alluding to

Instead its not realizing another console is on OR realizing its on, but that the console is self aware enough that the user is playing on his PS3

"Ill just wait till he is done with the PS3" - says PS4
 
T

toythatkills

Member
BigDug13 said:
But the PS4 downloads updates in stand by. Why keep it turned on for updates?
Click to expand...

Some people just have weird habits like that. When I'm updating apps on my iPad I leave the app store open. I don't know why I do it, there's no benefit to doing it, it's just the way I've always behaved.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Into said:
Is it common sense to realize that 2 of your consoles are turned on? One has light coming out of it!?
Click to expand...
Common sense has nothing to do with it. People probably just weren't aware that the PS4 was on(do you do a checklist of which electronics are on/off whenever you game?) or didn't realize that a controller working for your PS3 would also be controlling your PS4 at the same time. I've never heard of that before so I'd probably be caught out by that as well.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
Into said:
I thought this was going to be some sort of deal where installing DS2 on the PS3, automatically bought all the DLC for it, if that was the case then Sony should get railed on. Because that is precisely what the thread title is alluding to

Instead its not realizing another console is on OR realizing its on, but that the console is self aware enough that the user is playing on his PS3

"Ill just wait till he is done with the PS3" - says PS4
Click to expand...

Why shouldn't connecting the controller to a PS3 with a cable stop it from sending a wireless signal? Is it really that insane an assumption, honestly?
 
J

jimi_dini

Member
Cthulhu_Steev said:
It sends wireless command to the PS4 if it was paired, used and not turned off before plugging it into the PS3 by USB while the PS4 is on. It doesn't pair with the PS3 at all, why wouldn't it keep sending wireless commands to when you do that?
Click to expand...

Let's use a simple example:

I connect my DS3 to my PS3 via cable. This means that my PS3 already gets button presses and so on via cable. Which means that if my DS3 sends out wireless commands at the same time, my console would get controller input from one controller via wireless and cable, which means from 2 sources. But the console can only use one of those. It makes no sense to have both at the same time. Which means that one source is completely useless at that time and shouldn't be sent out in the first place.

I would assume that you don't have to use wireless on PS4 and that you could play via cable as well, just like on PS3. But even if this isn't the case, then Sony implemented that dual mode for PS3 support only. Which makes it even worse and makes again - no fucking sense. Unless of course there is a game on PS3+PS4 that you can play at the same time using the same controller inputs. Who knows, maybe there is something like that :p

Is it really that hard to understand?

Sophia said:
Of course I disable the wireless if I previously paired it up with the PS4. Why would I even expect it to work at all if it was already coupled with it?
Click to expand...

If the pairing screen on PS4 doesn't say anything about this situation (I don't own a PS4, so no idea what the screen says), why wouldn't I simply try it out. I mean I would know that the DS4 only works via cable on PS3. I would simply connect it. It works. Bamn. Done.
 
E

erawsd

Member
I agree that Sony isn't obligated to give a refund, you can't really be upset since it was your mistake.

However, I do think Sony should do it on good will, even if its just wallet funds.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
Grassy said:
The first thing I would do if I was going to use my DS4 with my PS3 is make sure the PS4 is not on.

Common sense.
Click to expand...

This is what I did before I started up Dark Souls 2. I was watching Netflix, but wanted to game. So I turned off the PS4, plugged the DS4 into my PS3, made sure the PS4 was still off, and then played the game. I took these precautions because I knew it was possible for both to happen when noticing the bright shining blue lightbar color reflecting on my TV from the DS4 while I had both systems on.

It's not hard to be responsible.
 
Z

Zeyphersan

Banned
I can almost guarantee that no one in this thread would have guessed that the DS4 could control both the PS4 and PS3 if not uncoupled from the PS4 first. It's just not an assumption people would make.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Rocky said:
Um, it kinda is common sense. How many people are playing 2 consoles at the same time? I'm sure it is not many.
Click to expand...
Into said:
Is it common sense to realize that 2 of your consoles are turned on? One has light coming out of it!?
Click to expand...
You're both missing the point. So what if both consoles are on? That means nothing on its own. These users were even aware that both were on. The important point is that the controller's inputs affecting both devices at once is bizarre - and something even Sony's support staff and supervisors doesn't think is true. If Sony themselves didn't anticipate this, and still denies that it's the case, then how can we argue that it's common sense and "user error"? Seems like willful hindsight bias to me.
 
J

JP

Member
Sony really need to change the Store layout so that people start accidentally buying Knack instead. That'd work!
Knack-PS4_10-18.jpg
 
D

Dragon Puncher

Member
I don't see why Sony is as fault here. DS4 isn't officially supported as a PS3 controller, so anything that happens in relation to you using it as one, is your own responsibility.
 
L

libregkd

Member
Yagharek said:
Sony should start following the law here. Maybe start refunding Fifa hacks while theyre at it.
Click to expand...
That sucks to hear because I had no problems getting a refund from Sony regard those hacks :/ I gave them some information, they verified purchases with me and my bank account was refunded the $150 that was taken from me within a few days.
 
W

Withnail

Member
So basically...

1. Buy PS4 game
2. Play for a few hours to see if you like it.
3. Call Sony and say you were just playing PS3 the whole time and they owe you a refund.
 
J

Joni

Member
toythatkills said:
Why shouldn't connecting the controller to a PS3 with a cable stop it from sending a wireless signal? Is it really that insane an assumption, honestly?
Click to expand...
Because the wired cable is a charging cable that can be connected to any USB port, and it will only receive the stop sending wireless commands feedback when connected to something that can send it back?
 
T

toythatkills

Member
Dragon Puncher said:
I don't see why Sony is as fault here. DS4 isn't officially supported as a PS3 controller, so anything that happens in relation to you using it as one, is your own responsibility.
Click to expand...

Sony themselves advocate it's use. It's officially supported.

Joni said:
Because the wired cable is a charging cable that can be connected to any USB port, and it will only receive the stop sending wireless commands feedback when connected to something that can send it back?
Click to expand...

So we're expecting all PS3/PS4 owners to fully understand the ins and outs of controller technology and if they don't have such a degree then fuck them? Again, hindsight, easy to see this was stupid now but at least half the people in this thread calling the guy stupid would have made exactly the same assumption before seeing this thread.
 
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