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wesleyshark · Mar 29, 2017

MosquitoSmasher said:
I stand corrected.

I was talking to a friend about Scorpio and just Xbox in general and he believes that Scorpio will be the last Xbox from MS. He claims MS even said this themselves a while ago that this would be their last console generation. Did they ever say this at all? In a way it's true, since Phil Spencer said generations are over for MS.

No one from MS has said anything even close to this.

MysteryM · Mar 29, 2017

Bitch Pudding said:
So, with regard to Scorpio, it is my understanding that it will be able to play any XBOX One game with the data from the disC, without having to install any patch or download additional / adapted files.

Xbox one games and Scorpio games are the same, however given the extra memory in Scorpio and the potential for higher resolution textures, I wouldn't be surprised to see patches that increase the texture quality\mesh details etc. depending on what developers are targeting.

Okami Haundo · Mar 29, 2017

MosquitoSmasher said:
I stand corrected.

I was talking to a friend about Scorpio and just Xbox in general and he believes that Scorpio will be the last Xbox from MS. He claims MS even said this themselves a while ago that this would be their last console generation. Did they ever say this at all? In a way it's true, since Phil Spencer said generations are over for MS.

If you take Phil's comments about going "beyond generations" and then deliver it secondhand to someone who doesn't follow Xbox that much, I guess I can see where he got that from. I've had similiar situations with friends who like games but don't really follow the industry too much. They'll come to me and say things like "yo dude, did you hear about PS5?!", and it turns out they're semi-referring to an article where a PS rep passively mentioned the idea of it.

No chance that they're done with Xbox though.

Nozem · Mar 29, 2017

wesleyshark said:
No one from MS has said anything even close to this.

Well, sort of:

Greenberg: I think it is. ... For us, we think the future is without console generations; we think that the ability to build a library, a community, to be able to iterate with the hardware -- we're making a pretty big bet on that with Project Scorpio. We're basically saying, "This isn't a new generation; everything you have continues forward and it works." We think of this as a family of devices.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/17/microsoft-aaron-greenberg-qa-project-scorpio-vr/

tiredheadcrab · Mar 29, 2017

Burdmayn said:
If you take Phil's comments about going "beyond generations" and then deliver it secondhand to someone who doesn't follow Xbox that much, I guess I can see where he got that from. I've had similiar situations with friends who like games but don't really follow the industry too much. They'll come to me and say things like "yo dude, did you hear about PS5?!", and it turns out they're semi-referring to an article where a PS rep passively mentioned the idea of it.

No chance that they're done with Xbox though.

IDK, some posters on GAF think that Xbox is MS's last console in the gaming space before is supposedly fails.

Colbert · Mar 29, 2017

Chobel said:
No idea, I'm not familiar with on the hypervisor OS works, but whatever the case there will use of some kind of code translation from one target architecture to another. That falls under emulation IMO.

TL;DR Exisiting games will not emulated on Project Scorpio! Xbox One Games will run natively.

To understand how MS will handle the absence of ESRAM you need to know some things how the ESRAM was utilized on the Xbox One.

The ESRAM was not used automatically by the GPU. It has to be said so by the developer via the API that exists for it. The way it works is: You map your data to the virtual address the ESRAM is configured with. By that the GPU will read write that data from the ESRAM because of the memory address of the data. Without that mapping ESRAM would never be used.

This leads to the fact that to handle the absence of the ESRAM MS can do 2 things:
1. Map a portion of the 12GB of GDDR5 RAM to the same virtual address the ESRAM had on the OG Xbox One in the hardware (MMU). So every existing code just puts the data into a different spot but still thinks it is using ESRAM.
2. Update the API that it differentiates between the device it is running on to handle those API calls differently. For example the API is called when executed on a Xbox One it works the same way as always. If the call is executed on Project Scorpio the API handles the call different (mapping to the normal shared memory).

Both options are not emulating anything. The first option is just a remapping a portion of the shared memory, the second option is just handling API calls differently by on what the device the code is executed on.

Other than that Xbox Scorpio using almost the same technology stacks (x86-x64, AMD GCN) --> also strongly indicates no emulation.

Outrun · Mar 29, 2017

MosquitoSmasher said:
I stand corrected.

I was talking to a friend about Scorpio and just Xbox in general and he believes that Scorpio will be the last Xbox from MS. He claims MS even said this themselves a while ago that this would be their last console generation. Did they ever say this at all? In a way it's true, since Phil Spencer said generations are over for MS.

Your friend is narrating tales from his rectum.

Colbert · Mar 29, 2017

c0de said:
I am not splitting hairs, I am using the correct technical terms.
Again, the current gen systems work as I said: You can't run games off disc. Every "app" for gameos has to be an XBO app to be executed. For 360 games this means you have a package containing the game, the emulator, the 360 os. How would you be able to play a game from disc then? It just doesn't work this way, at all.
...
The point still stands - it can only work in the way they are doing it currently because this is how games on gameos are to be executed.
That Scorpio will have the same gameos and won't need patches to run them is obvious.

That's totally true in the sense if you will put a Xbox One disc into the system it will install the game from the disc not from the internet what instead happens if you put in a 360 game disc. The Xbox One games will run natively and 360 games still need the "emulation/translation layer" because those games are based on a different CPU+GPU instruction set and clock frequencies.

pitchfork · Mar 29, 2017

MosquitoSmasher said:
I stand corrected.

I was talking to a friend about Scorpio and just Xbox in general and he believes that Scorpio will be the last Xbox from MS. He claims MS even said this themselves a while ago that this would be their last console generation. Did they ever say this at all? In a way it's true, since Phil Spencer said generations are over for MS.

Phil Spencer got asked the other day on Twitter if Scorpio would be the last console and his answer was a firm 'NO'

Mike Ybarra also replied with a wink and said that there was still plenty of innovation yet to be realised

gofreak · Mar 29, 2017

Nozem said:
Well, sort of:

https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/17/microsoft-aaron-greenberg-qa-project-scorpio-vr/

The messaging on this is a mess.

Are we to believe that XB1 will be supported forever by all software? (i.e. no new 'generations', everything will run on everything going forward? seems very unlikely)

Are we to believe that devs will be allowed set their own hardware requirements? (seems not based on comments that all scorpio sw will run on xb1)

Unless someone can offer an alternative explanation, MS will a) still be dictating hardware compatibility requirements and b) will evolve those requirements over time.

The difference between that an a 'traditional' console generation seems pretty academic. You'll still have distinct software generations - the 'only' change will be in the potential for overlapping windows of hardware compatibility between those generations (i.e. a new sw generation won't necessarily require hitherto unreleased new hardware).

Again though, maybe there's an alternative plan that fits? However I tend to think Microsoft hasn't even figured out what they mean by this and are playing it completely by ear. I'm reading a October 2016 Spencer interview on this and he says 'I don't know' three times in his answer on what 'gaming beyond generations' actually means...

shandy706 · Mar 29, 2017

gofreak said:
The messaging on this is a mess.

Not really, they're making consoles like PCs/iPhones. They release new hardware on a regular basis and eventually old hardware just can't run it. Once you get a couple OS(s)/systems out the OG Xbox One will fall away. However, you'll still be able to play your Xbox One games as you move forward.

gofreak · Mar 29, 2017

shandy706 said:
Not really, they're making consoles like PCs/iPhones. They release new hardware on a regular basis and eventually old hardware just can't run it. Once you get a couple OS(s)/systems out the OG Xbox One will fall away. However, you'll still be able to play your Xbox One games as you move forward.

Can you point to me where this is explicitly explained?

I think it's a perfectly reasonable assumption based on what they've alluded to, it's the likely outcome I described above, but have they explicitly spelled this out or committed to this approach? I've read a number of interviews, and though some tend to sound more certain than others, recent interviews seem to simultaneously communicate uncertainty about what this all will mean beyond Scorpio.

(I'll note again though - as long as Microsoft is holding charge of hardware compatibility, and classing software by hardware compatibility and marketing those classes with some distinct branding, the concept of software cycles/generations remains. The ranges of hardware a software gen encompasses may now overlap, but distinct software generations would remain, delineated by the changing baseline.)

Okami Haundo · Mar 29, 2017

gofreak said:
Can you point to me where this is explicitly explained?

I think it's a perfectly reasonable assumption based on what they've alluded to, it's the likely outcome I described above, but have they explicitly spelled this out or committed to this approach? I've read a number of interviews, and though some tend to sound more certain than others, recent interviews seem to simultaneously communicate uncertainty about what this all will mean beyond Scorpio.

(I'll note again though - as long as Microsoft is holding charge of hardware compatibility, and classing software by hardware compatibility and marketing those classes with some distinct branding, the concept of software cycles/generations remains)

As you stated, this is definitely the most logical assumption but they've never stated that explicitly. I'm honestly not sure that they ever will in this case. Has Apple ever spelled this out given their release schedules? It always seems to me that they pretend like no one was expecting a new iPhone every year.

SicSemperTyrannis · Mar 29, 2017

shandy706 said:
Not really, they're making consoles like PCs/iPhones. They release new hardware on a regular basis and eventually old hardware just can't run it. Once you get a couple OS(s)/systems out the OG Xbox One will fall away. However, you'll still be able to play your Xbox One games as you move forward.

This concept isn't hard to grasp, it's crazy that some are fighting this belief. It just makes sense from a business and customer facing view.

gofreak · Mar 29, 2017

Burdmayn said:
As you stated, this is definitely the most logical assumption but they've never stated that explicitly. I'm honestly not sure that they ever will in this case. Has Apple ever spelled this out given their release schedules? It always seems to me that they pretend like no one was expecting a new iPhone every year.

Well, the Apple model is a bit less controlled. More PC-like. There isn't the same kind of 'policy' as such about software compatibility, devs can support or not support devices as they wish, so the omission of any explanation of a policy there speaks for itself.. And it's always been the same there - if it was changing, Apple would have to explain it.

Microsoft's 'generation-less' approach - if it is as we surmise above - wouldn't actually be a PC-like, policy-less free-for-all where devs can specify there own compatibility. There would still be distinct, Microsoft specified generations of software. 'Just' the mapping of software generations and hardware generations would change. Thus a policy would exist that they ought to be able to communicate.

Further, the console model, the Xbox model has worked one way in this regard to date. If you omit to explain the compatibility model, one will assume it's the same as always. If it's changing to another way, it should be explained how.

In the absence of concrete explanation, people are filling the void with assumed (even if apparently logical) explanations of how software compatibility will work beyond Scorpio. Assumptions that might inform purchase intent for that machine, or expectations of what the hardware will be (e.g. 'it can't be jaguar, because it'll be the baseline for next-gen xbox software'). All I've been wondering is if these policies are actually something concrete, or if MS has been non-committal about it.

deadlast · Mar 29, 2017

SicSemperTyrannis said:
This concept isn't hard to grasp, it's crazy that some are fighting this belief. It just makes sense from a business and customer facing view.

I think both Sony and MS are moving that direction. It just makes the most sense. It's what nintendo did with the 3ds (but there is no telling what nintendo will do next). I'm just curious when the xbox 1/xbox 1s will no longer be the base model that games are designed to.
Going forward, I wonder what versioning microsoft will use for their xbox brand.

Okami Haundo · Mar 29, 2017

gofreak said:
Well, the Apple model is a bit less controlled. More PC-like. There isn't the same kind of 'policy' as such about software compatibility, devs can support or not support devices as they wish, so the omission of any explanation of a policy there speaks for itself.. And it's always been the same there - if it was changing, Apple would have to explain it.

Microsoft's 'generation-less' approach - if it is as we surmise above - wouldn't actually be a PC-like, policy-less free-for-all where devs can specify there own compatibility. There would still be distinct, Microsoft specified generations of software. 'Just' the mapping of software generations and hardware generations would change. Thus a policy would exist that they ought to be able to communicate.

Further, the console model, the Xbox model has worked one way in this regard to date. If you omit to explain the compatibility model, one will assume it's the same as always. If it's changing to another way, it should be explained how.

In the absence of concrete explanation, people are filling the void with assumed (even if apparently logical) explanations of how software compatibility will work beyond Scorpio. Assumptions that might inform purchase intent for that machine. All I've been wondering is if these policies are actually something concrete, or if MS has been non-committal about it.

That's a very good explanation, I certainly see your point. I'm really hoping they can come out and commit to an approach when Project Scorpio is formally detailed. Their initial statement that promised game/accessory support from Xbox One is what sold me on the project from day one.

c0de · Mar 29, 2017

Colbert said:
That's totally true in the sense if you will put a Xbox One disc into the system it will install the game from the disc not from the internet what instead happens if you put in a 360 game disc. The Xbox One games will run natively and 360 games still need the "emulation/translation layer" because those games are based on a different CPU+GPU instruction set and clock frequencies.

For sure but to game os this is transparent. It gets a binary that contains code built for x86. What this code actually does is a different thing, of course.
It is like having a PE executable that happens to contain an emulator like dolphin and static data in it, like say a rom like Zelda. Nobody does that because you don't need the package as you can launch only the emulator and then select the rom you want to play which is not possible in the way games work on Xbox One.

Colbert · Mar 29, 2017

c0de said:
For sure but to game os this is transparent. It gets a binary that contains code built for x86. What this code actually does is a different thing, of course.
It is like having a PE executable that happens to contain an emulator like dolphin and static data in it, like say a rom like Zelda. Nobody does that because you don't need the package as you can launch only the emulator and then select the rom you want to play which is not possible in the way games work on Xbox One.

Just to give a thought: Doing something like PE code generation would require to disassemble the whole 360 package to know what is actually code and what is actually data. I do not think they do it that way. I think they have a little VM that emulated the CPU instruction set to its x86 equivalent. Its as fast as PE code as it just calls fixed sets of machine code instructions. Overhead is minimal and you don't need to care about the package itself.

c0de · Mar 29, 2017

Colbert said:
Just to give a thought: Doing something like PE code generation would require to disassemble the whole 360 package to know what is actually code and what is actually data. I do not think they do it that way. I think they have a little VM that emulated the CPU instruction set to its x86 equivalent. Its as fast as PE code as it just calls fixed sets of machine code instructions. Overhead is minimal and you don't need to care about the package itself.

Hmm? I don't think you understood what I meant. You can easily put data into an executable which you could also separate.
I just used PE to give an example from a usual Windows binary to show what I mean with the package that itself shows to Xbox One a binary the console knows. That the data itself also has machine code and additional data that is interpreted by code that the Xbox One sees is of course also happening. It's an egg in an egg.

Shpeshal Nick · Mar 29, 2017

gofreak said:
The messaging on this is a mess.

Are we to believe that XB1 will be supported forever by all software? (i.e. no new 'generations', everything will run on everything going forward? seems very unlikely)

Are we to believe that devs will be allowed set their own hardware requirements? (seems not based on comments that all scorpio sw will run on xb1)

Unless someone can offer an alternative explanation, MS will a) still be dictating hardware compatibility requirements and b) will evolve those requirements over time.

The difference between that an a 'traditional' console generation seems pretty academic. You'll still have distinct software generations - the 'only' change will be in the potential for overlapping windows of hardware compatibility between those generations (i.e. a new sw generation won't necessarily require hitherto unreleased new hardware).

Again though, maybe there's an alternative plan that fits? However I tend to think Microsoft hasn't even figured out what they mean by this and are playing it completely by ear. I'm reading a October 2016 Spencer interview on this and he says 'I don't know' three times in his answer on what 'gaming beyond generations' actually means...

Are you being obtuse? Or just disingenuous? Nothing about their statements indicate "no more Xbox consoles".

Anyone into gaming enough to be a GAF member should surely be aware of what they're doing. They're literally going to follow the smartphone/tablet market.

Game A in 2017 works on Xbox One and Scorpio
Game B in 2019 works on Xbox One, Scorpio and Scorpio 2
Game C in 2020 works on Scorpio, Scorpio 2 and Scorpio 3

Just like an iPhone 4 is no longer supported by iOS updates and new games/apps.

anothertech · Mar 30, 2017

demigod said:
Wait i thought chobel took the game offer bet vs sage.

Well I just know we all did the avatar bet with Senjutsu and Leeh. I'm not sure what you mean by 'game offer' bet. Maybe that was later.

Also, if Scorpio is a phone the world will burn. lol.

rokkerkory · Mar 30, 2017

Collingwood said:
Are you being obtuse? Or just disingenuous? Nothing about their statements indicate "no more Xbox consoles".

Anyone into gaming enough to be a GAF member should surely be aware of what they're doing. They're literally going to follow the smartphone/tablet market.

Game A in 2017 works on Xbox One and Scorpio
Game B in 2019 works on Xbox One, Scorpio and Scorpio 2
Game C in 2020 works on Scorpio, Scorpio 2 and Scorpio 3

Just like an iPhone 4 is no longer supported by iOS updates and new games/apps.

gofreak's always very cautious about MS

Colbert · Mar 30, 2017

c0de said:
Hmm? I don't think you understood what I meant. You can easily put data into an executable which you could also separate.
I just used PE to give an example from a usual Windows binary to show what I mean with the package that itself shows to Xbox One a binary the console knows. That the data itself also has machine code and additional data that is interpreted by code that the Xbox One sees is of course also happening. It's an egg in an egg.

IMO it was bad example because it suggests that MS has a step to produce PE code. But we are on the same page and everybody deeper in the subject already knows the the Game OS thinks because of the outside layer it executes just another Xbox One game.

gofreak · Mar 30, 2017

Collingwood said:
Are you being obtuse? Or just disingenuous? Nothing about their statements indicate "no more Xbox consoles".

Not sure where you got that suggestion, but if you want to point it out I'll be happy to clarify.

As far as I was concerned, our conversation had zip to do with a thought that there'll be no new Xbox consoles post-Scorpio. I certainly think there will be new Xboxs, and MS has said as much.

We were talking about software compatibility models ( your suggested model was discussed btw), what's confirmed and what's being assumed, and how different assumptions in the absence of confirmation can lead to different assumptions about how Scorpio 'must' be specced, on the CPU side in particular.

SenjutsuSage · Mar 30, 2017

Are we officially back to the Microsoft selling the xbox division to dunkin donuts phase again?

derFeef · Mar 30, 2017

SenjutsuSage said:
Are we officially back to the Microsoft selling the xbox division to dunkin donuts phase again?

That phase never ends.

c0de · Mar 30, 2017

Colbert said:
IMO it was bad example because it suggests that MS has a step to produce PE code. But we are on the same page and everybody deeper in the subject already knows the the Game OS thinks because of the outside layer it executes just another Xbox One game.

Oh, I definitely put the blame on me to not explain it in clearer words to make it more understandable.

nomis · Mar 30, 2017

iOS games run in varying capacities on different devices, and then eventually they drop support entirely for the oldest hardware. As long as games have disclaimers as such, there should be no problem.

c0de · Mar 30, 2017

nomis said:
iOS games run in varying capacities on different devices, and then eventually they drop support entirely for the oldest hardware. As long as games have disclaimers as such, there should be no problem.

Please explain that easier to me, this is so complicated to comprehend, I mean how can that even work? This has never been done before (in console space). /s

leeh · Mar 30, 2017

anothertech said:
Well I just know we all did the avatar bet with Senjutsu and Leeh. I'm not sure what you mean by 'game offer' bet. Maybe that was later.

Also, if Scorpio is a phone the world will burn. lol.

We should congregate and decide on an avatar as we all know we're going to win this bet.

c0de said:
Please explain that easier to me, this is so complicated to comprehend, I mean how can that even work? This has never been done before (in console space). /s

I'm really not sure, it's not like we've had devices which have had different hardware configurations since the early days of personal computing. /s

Colbert · Mar 30, 2017

c0de said:
Oh, I definitely put the blame on me to not explain it in clearer words to make it more understandable.

I don't blame you anywhere. I just stated that that your example was a little bit misleading IMO. It's just my (single instance) opinion!

Derived from available information (through articles, podcasts and sources I have access to) the stack of 360 BC games seems to look like this:

Xbox One OS Hypervisor ;x86
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xbox One Game OS Stub | X1 API routines ;x86
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerPC emulation | 360 API Facade -> X1 API Calls ;x86
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xbox 360 barebone OS | 360 API Facade ;PowerPC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xbox 360 Game Code & Data | 360 API Calls ;PowerPC

If there is a API Call the call will not emulated instruction by instruction instead it will be directly passed through to a native API call via an API translation facade to decrease emulation overhead. Code in between API calls is emulated for every single instruction.

The package you download when installing a 360 game on the Xbox One contains: Xbox 360 Game Code & Data + Xbox 360 Barebone OS + PowerPC Emulation & API router + Xbox One Game OS Stub

JaffeLion · Mar 30, 2017

Collingwood said:
Are you being obtuse? Or just disingenuous? Nothing about their statements indicate "no more Xbox consoles".

Anyone into gaming enough to be a GAF member should surely be aware of what they're doing. They're literally going to follow the smartphone/tablet market.

Game A in 2017 works on Xbox One and Scorpio
Game B in 2019 works on Xbox One, Scorpio and Scorpio 2
Game C in 2020 works on Scorpio, Scorpio 2 and Scorpio 3

Just like an iPhone 4 is no longer supported by iOS updates and new games/apps.

this actually makes a lot of sense. And to add to that: every new gen will always be able to play all games from previous gens. So, Scorpio 3 would be able to play all X1, Scorpio 1, and 2 games (and a few xbox 360 games).

MosquitoSmasher · Mar 30, 2017

Not necessarily about Scorpio but I am hoping to hear some Japanese game announcements at E3. As we all know Phil Spencer recently went to Japan to visit third party developers and recently he tweeted that the visit went well and that the publishers are interested in Scorpio/X1, but more importantly that even though he knew he said it before, Japanese games would be coming to Xbox. Something along those lines. Xbox really is missing out on too many great Japanese games like Persona 5,Nioh,Nier and so on. Persona has never been on Xbox but maybe that can finally change now. Do these publishers think that none of the Xbox owners will buy these games? Because I sure would. Really hope we get to see some results.

m23 · Mar 30, 2017

MosquitoSmasher said:
Not necessarily about Scorpio but I am hoping to hear some Japanese game announcements at E3. As we all know Phil Spencer recently went to Japan to visit third party developers and recently he tweeted that the visit went well and that the publishers are interested in Scorpio/X1, but more importantly that even though he knew he said it before, Japanese games would be coming to Xbox. Something along those lines. Xbox really is missing out on too many great Japanese games like Persona 5,Nioh,Nier and so on. Persona has never been on Xbox but maybe that can finally change now. Do these publishers think that none of the Xbox owners will buy these games? Because I sure would. Really hope we get to see some results.

I don't think we'll see anything from Spencer's recent visit to Japan at e3 this year. Seems way too soon. Doubt we'll see much support anyway seeing as how the relationship with PG went.

Thorrgal · Mar 30, 2017

If the message is "no that hard to understand" why the fuck don't they come out and clarify it once and for all?? Every interview, every fucking Q&A it's just more air and more questions...

Alnost a year after E3 and people are going around in circles discussing the same things, over and over and over...messaging has been a horrible disgrace.

Just get it done already

Edit: Ok, if it was easy to understand they wouldn't need to clarify it, but it clearly isn't...and they're playing on that, which is fucking annoying

Okami Haundo · Mar 30, 2017

m23 said:
I don't think we'll see anything from Spencer's recent visit to Japan at e3 this year. Seems way too soon. Doubt we'll see much support anyway seeing as how the relationship with PG went.

You think? I'm not expecting any big exclusive game announcements, but I'd be surprised if Phil didn't negotiate or a port or two of an already released game.

MurfHey · Mar 30, 2017

Im still calling that the "Windows" plot twist is this:

All the scorpio is, is a steam like machine. It will be an "Xbox" but more along the lines of pc.

It will run a version of the windows 10 xbox app. It will still be a Windows 10 os, but only the xbox app, app store, browser will be the actual windows 10 features.

It would be cool if because it is a Windows 10 OS if you are still able to install steam and play steam games.

Leyasu · Mar 30, 2017

Thorrgal said:
If the message is "no that hard to understand" why the fuck don't they come out and clarify it once and for all?? Every interview, every fucking Q&A it's just more air and more questions...

Alnost a year after E3 and people are going around in circles discussing the same things, over and over and over...messaging has been a horrible disgrace.

Just get it done already

Edit: Ok, if it was easy to understand they wouldn't need to clarify it, but it clearly isn't...and they're playing on that, which is fucking annoying

I don't know. I understood it like it was a new console that would play all of the xbone back catalogue, and everything else going forward.

Message was loud and clear for me. What else do you think needs clarification?

tiredheadcrab · Mar 30, 2017

SlyFoxC said:
Im still calling that the "Windows" plot twist is this:

All the scorpio is, is a steam like machine. It will be an "Xbox" but more along the lines of pc.

It will run a version of the windows 10 xbox app. It will still be a Windows 10 os, but only the xbox app, app store, browser will be the actual windows 10 features.

It would be cool if because it is a Windows 10 OS if you are still able to install steam and play steam games.

No this isnt a good idea. Gamers would be more inclined to buy games from Steam and that would cut MS out of a ton of 3rd party game purchases and subscriptions from XBL. If they made this version of Windows 10 UWP only then maybe I can see it.

I mean lets face it, this holiday would you rather buy the steam version of CoD and play online free? Or would you rather buy the Xbox version and pay the sub fee? I think we know which one consumers would choose.

Interfectum · Mar 30, 2017

There's obviously a plot twist coming considering MS played their hand on Scorpio super early and has given their competition plenty of time to plan for it. They are keeping some cards close to their chest.

Isurus · Mar 30, 2017

Colbert said:
TL;DR Exisiting games will not emulated on Project Scorpio! Xbox One Games will run natively.

To understand how MS will handle the absence of ESRAM you need to know some things how the ESRAM was utilized on the Xbox One.

The ESRAM was not used automatically by the GPU. It has to be said so by the developer via the API that exists for it. The way it works is: You map your data to the virtual address the ESRAM is configured with. By that the GPU will read write that data from the ESRAM because of the memory address of the data. Without that mapping ESRAM would never be used.

This leads to the fact that to handle the absence of the ESRAM MS can do 2 things:
1. Map a portion of the 12GB of GDDR5 RAM to the same virtual address the ESRAM had on the OG Xbox One in the hardware (MMU). So every existing code just puts the data into a different spot but still thinks it is using ESRAM.
2. Update the API that it differentiates between the device it is running on to handle those API calls differently. For example the API is called when executed on a Xbox One it works the same way as always. If the call is executed on Project Scorpio the API handles the call different (mapping to the normal shared memory).

Both options are not emulating anything. The first option is just a remapping a portion of the shared memory, the second option is just handling API calls differently by on what the device the code is executed on.

Other than that Xbox Scorpio using almost the same technology stacks (x86-x64, AMD GCN) --> also strongly indicates no emulation.

This person knows what they are talking about. I couldn't say it any better. Highly doubt emulation comes into play.

m23 · Mar 30, 2017

Burdmayn said:
You think? I'm not expecting any big exclusive game announcements, but I'd be surprised if Phil didn't negotiate or a port or two of an already released game.

I'd love to be wrong, I want to try some of those games. Even if he were able to bring some ports over, I don't think using the e3 presser to announce ports of older games is a good use of valuable time.

Maybe a short montage or something could work. Who knows.

Synth · Mar 30, 2017

tiredheadcrab said:
No this isnt a good idea. Gamers would be more inclined to buy games from Steam and that would cut MS out of a ton of 3rd party game purchases and subscriptions from XBL. If they made this version of Windows 10 UWP only then maybe I can see it.

I mean lets face it, this holiday would you rather buy the steam version of CoD and play online free? Or would you rather buy the Xbox version and pay the sub fee? I think we know which one consumers would choose.

It's not even just a case of playing online free.

It'd both be the only way to play stuff like Nier Automata and it would be the way to play crossplay with PlayStation players.

It'd be a really stupid move to make. It'd become the default option so fucking fast.

Okami Haundo · Mar 30, 2017

m23 said:
I'd love to be wrong, I want to try some of those games. Even if he were able to bring some ports over, I don't think using the e3 presser to announce ports of older games is a good use of valuable time.

Maybe a short montage or something could work. Who knows.

I'd love to see it too! Honestly, I'm not imagining anything that they'd make a huge deal out of. Just a short blurb about how they're working closer with devs in Japan and here's a few games that are coming to Xbox this year.

Outrun · Mar 30, 2017

I am hoping for a May dedicated event.

Show the hardware.

Then run every game, 3rd party or otherwise, off Scorpio at E3,

Maximilian Kolbe · Mar 30, 2017

Outrun said:
I am hoping for a May dedicated event.

Show the hardware.

Then run every game, 3rd party or otherwise, off Scorpio at E3,

They did with Xbox One and see what happened.

RowdyReverb · Mar 30, 2017

Maximilian Kolbe said:
They did with Xbox One and see what happened.

Yeah, that didn't go over well at all. Pretty much kicked off the narrative of Xbox One not being about playing games
My guess is that we'll get a teaser or partial reveal before E3, and then they'll open the floodgates

Tntnico · Mar 30, 2017

I don't remember if Sony announced new games at its PS4Pro event ? I assume that they should show already announced games on Scorpio ans Keep announcements for E3

Dee Dah Dave · Mar 30, 2017

I think there will be a 30min+ Scorpio video right before the E3 stream starts!

Get the bulk of the hardware info done and then straight into the games at the conference. In fact 15 minutes would do.

5 mins - show what it looks like etc
9 mins - various devs talking about how awesome it is
1 min - wrap up and lead into E3
E3 - Boom, Phil goes live. "Scorpio launches in September for $399, welcome to E3!"

That's how i would do it!

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