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Stephen King's IT |OT| He thrusts his fists and then he posts (Unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter Kyleripman
- Start date
That shit's still fucking with my head
None of then were alive, those were dead bodies. It was poorly communicated though.
crisdecuba
Member
If the genre is thriller, then Get Out is the best this year.
How do we know this? I got the impression IT didn't start feeding on them until his hibernation started and we had direct evidence of Bev floating and then still being alive a few minutes before. If they are all supposed to be dead it is not in the film and contradicts Bev and Stanley's experiences with IT not immediately killing them.
Except it made her afraid when it showed her it's throat to get it her into the floating state was how I understood it. That entire floating corpse/prisoner thing made no sense. And I'm pretty sure IT can still kill even if you aren't afraid.
IT feeds on fear, and prefers when the flesh is engulfed in fear, before consuming. The floating bodies were corpses, you could see blood particles, and some of them were chewed/dismembered.
The lights he got Bev withDeadlightsput her in a trance that took her to a future dimension/alternate world, and I'm sure if they never revived her; she would have lost her sanity for good. Stanley was almost certainly at deaths door, but they saved him in time, and his reactions during that scene will play into his decisions when he's older.
The movie could have translated some of those elements better, but the roots are there.
The lights he got Bev withDeadlightsput her in a trance that took her to a future dimension/alternate world, and I'm sure if they never revived her; she would have lost her sanity for good. Stanley was almost certainly at deaths door, but they saved him in time, and his reactions during that scene will play into his decisions when he's older.
The movie could have translated some of those elements better, but the roots are there.
Stanley was also not part of the group hug. He just stood behind them.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
I guess they were showing that Bower's father was abusive to him, which resulted in him becoming a bully then eventually snapping. That was in the novel, but we get a clearer route to his mental break down. The tipping point was the "apocalyptic rock fight".
Kyleripman
Member
The idea was that IT gave him back the knife and set him on a path to attack the kids. This plays out more
in the future when IT gets more worried about them. Since Bowers is a real person he can harm and kill the Losers whether they believe in IT or not.
How'd he do that?
And thanks (to both) for providing some of the context from the novel. Tempted to read it now
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Again, this is a part where the novel was clearer. In the novel,
the balloons attached to the mailbox all had pictures of the Losers faces on them. I think after Henry opens the knife for the first time, he also pops every balloon with the blade's tip. Also, I think around this time he starts seeing It's face in the moon. It's not like the mini-series where you see Pennywise's face in the moon, but it was described like being a talking skull face that would inch Henry on about taking his revenge. This would be the same face he sees when It returns when they are all adults.
And regarding Henry in the book, he was on the road to destruction since he was born. His father, in the novel,
was a war vet with PTSD that everybody in town believed he was plain crazy. His father, who had a chip on his shoulder, saw to it that his son would would also buckle from that chip's weight. He fed him racist "truths" about the Hanlons, and rewarded him with a beer when he killed Mike's dog. But mostly, everybody (I remember Henry's friends hated helping Henry around the farm because Butch of beat the shit out of them), especially Henry, was scared of Butch Bowers. Henry felt power as the leader of his group, and power over the other kids at the elementary school because he was big and strong. But over time the Losers would undermine his power and even defeat him in the rock fight. Everything from the years his dad weighing down on him, It's influences, and the Losers standing up to him and defeating him made him break. From then on he wanted blood. The mini-series, while it didn't go in depth about Henry's backstory (didn't even show his home life), the scene where the Losers surround him and he refuses to leave, but they all tell him they, together, could put him in the hospital, then Henry stumbles away while crazily saying "I'll kill you all!" is pretty close to what happened in the book (though a lot more happened, like Henry's friends basically abandoning him little by little through the fight).
helped*
KeyBladerXIII
Member
Anyone know what the words are to the creepy song sung by kids during the opening credits and whenever IT was around? I loved that.
I thought this scene was just a well-edited meme.
I burst out laughing when it happened in the movie.
I didn't know what to feel when that happened.
But you know what, good on them for taking the chance. Some will find it scary, I know some in the theater did. Some laughed. Horror is subjective.
excelsiorlef
Member
Awesome. It's well deserved. Beautifully shot, expertly written, wonderfully acted. It all came together perfectly, plenty of time to breathe with its good pace and sizable runtime. You really got to know and care for the children. Some of the best movie kids in ages if not ever.
Watched the film. I liked it as a "scary monster" film but didn't much care for it as a fan of the book. The film was good for cheap scares and is fairly solid standing on its own, but seems terrified at the idea of making a viewer genuinely uncomfortable outside of that one scene involving Bev and the pharmacist, and that whole brief exploration into skeeviness has zero narrative payoff in the end so why even bother.
Complaints below spoilers for the movie
Complaints below spoilers for the movie
There's two big things I think the film really got wrong.
Thing #1: Derry in the book is a diseased place representing everything wrong with a small to mid sized American town. People participating in and enabling racism, homophobia, child abuse, and everything else you can think of. IT feeds off of this like a parasite, and the adults (plus kids like Henry) are complicit in its periodical reigns of terror. The film has some of this stuff, but never goes far enough for it to come to the forefront in order to drive the point home and make the viewer genuinely uncomfortable. There's only once scene of adults ignoring Henry's bullying. The farthest we get into racism is one scene where Henry calls Mike an "outsider". No one says the N-word, we don't delve into the racial motivations behind the Black Spot, we don't see Henry kill Mike's dog then get a pat on the back from his racist dad about it. Bev's dad is creepy, but he never escalates into full blown child abuse until near the end of the film. The end result is that Derry lacks any sort of character as being this awful pit of evil that IT would gleefully nest in, instead it's just a town with some creepy buildings where stuff happens. It feels like a lot of this was excised because the producers were scared at the idea of making any viewers genuinely uncomfortable with anything outside of IT's multiple scary and gross forms. I watched the RedLetterMedia review of the film after getting home, and their half-criticism of calling this a "marketable film" is very on point in that regard.
Thing #2: The book is sort of an homage to a lot of old monster books and films. Something a lot of old school monster books and films have in common that was shared in the book is that there is a pretty clear progression of "monster shows up and no one know what to do about it oh my god"->"characters think about how the monster behaves and how they can counter it"->"characters act on plans to fight back against the monster and are successful". In the book this is shown through how they first hurt IT by tricking it into taking the shape of a werewolf, and also in other ways (and weirder ways, but I'm not going to fault the movie for not including un-filmable things). In the movie, they mostly just beat IT up with whatever random rubbish happens to be lying around at the time, there's no thinking in their actions. This turns "fighting fear with reason and courage" into "fighting fear with a fight or flight reaction", which is much less interesting.
Then there's lesser things like completely excising any theme of sexual discovery/empowerment. Every near-sexual action involving Bev in the film is something done TO her, even right at the end of the film when Bill kisses her it's something that she doesn't initiate. You don't have to include the whole "child gangbang" scene (and its good they left it out cause that was weird as heck), but at least have her initiate something on her own outside of quoting a dorky poem. Then in the last act Bev just gets kidnapped by IT so they can tie up all the conflicts involving everyone else in the Losers in two minutes and run off to the final act, while also I guess giving an excuse to show the Deadlights a bit so they don't come out of nowhere in the second film. All this adds up to what is essentially character assassination for Bev when you compare her to her character in the book.
One other minor gripe: With the racism mostly gone and with all the "Derry history" stuff given to Ben, Mike has been entirely reduced to "token black character" and I don't even know why he's still in the film outside of having a token black character.
Thing #1: Derry in the book is a diseased place representing everything wrong with a small to mid sized American town. People participating in and enabling racism, homophobia, child abuse, and everything else you can think of. IT feeds off of this like a parasite, and the adults (plus kids like Henry) are complicit in its periodical reigns of terror. The film has some of this stuff, but never goes far enough for it to come to the forefront in order to drive the point home and make the viewer genuinely uncomfortable. There's only once scene of adults ignoring Henry's bullying. The farthest we get into racism is one scene where Henry calls Mike an "outsider". No one says the N-word, we don't delve into the racial motivations behind the Black Spot, we don't see Henry kill Mike's dog then get a pat on the back from his racist dad about it. Bev's dad is creepy, but he never escalates into full blown child abuse until near the end of the film. The end result is that Derry lacks any sort of character as being this awful pit of evil that IT would gleefully nest in, instead it's just a town with some creepy buildings where stuff happens. It feels like a lot of this was excised because the producers were scared at the idea of making any viewers genuinely uncomfortable with anything outside of IT's multiple scary and gross forms. I watched the RedLetterMedia review of the film after getting home, and their half-criticism of calling this a "marketable film" is very on point in that regard.
Thing #2: The book is sort of an homage to a lot of old monster books and films. Something a lot of old school monster books and films have in common that was shared in the book is that there is a pretty clear progression of "monster shows up and no one know what to do about it oh my god"->"characters think about how the monster behaves and how they can counter it"->"characters act on plans to fight back against the monster and are successful". In the book this is shown through how they first hurt IT by tricking it into taking the shape of a werewolf, and also in other ways (and weirder ways, but I'm not going to fault the movie for not including un-filmable things). In the movie, they mostly just beat IT up with whatever random rubbish happens to be lying around at the time, there's no thinking in their actions. This turns "fighting fear with reason and courage" into "fighting fear with a fight or flight reaction", which is much less interesting.
Then there's lesser things like completely excising any theme of sexual discovery/empowerment. Every near-sexual action involving Bev in the film is something done TO her, even right at the end of the film when Bill kisses her it's something that she doesn't initiate. You don't have to include the whole "child gangbang" scene (and its good they left it out cause that was weird as heck), but at least have her initiate something on her own outside of quoting a dorky poem. Then in the last act Bev just gets kidnapped by IT so they can tie up all the conflicts involving everyone else in the Losers in two minutes and run off to the final act, while also I guess giving an excuse to show the Deadlights a bit so they don't come out of nowhere in the second film. All this adds up to what is essentially character assassination for Bev when you compare her to her character in the book.
One other minor gripe: With the racism mostly gone and with all the "Derry history" stuff given to Ben, Mike has been entirely reduced to "token black character" and I don't even know why he's still in the film outside of having a token black character.
Most of the horror stuff was the most Goofy stuff I see in a while. Like pennywise should never run at all.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Honestly, I wish we had more stuff like this in the movie. Pennywise being silly was my favorite parts of the book. He is kind of a goofy sonabitch.I thought this scene was just a well-edited meme.
I burst out laughing when it happened in the movie.
esmith08734
Member
So how about time passed between IT killing Georgie and The Losers running into IT? It felt like a year but could have only been a few months. Also, how long does Pennywise feast for?
And he wanted to recruit Henry because he sensed the group was forming an alliance and felt threatened by the idea of them maybe not being as afraid?
Never read the book, just trying to bridge it together.
And he wanted to recruit Henry because he sensed the group was forming an alliance and felt threatened by the idea of them maybe not being as afraid?
Never read the book, just trying to bridge it together.
Less than a year but more than a few months (the book starts in Fall 1957 with the majority of the "childhood" events taking place in the summer of 1958), and yes.
Saw this last night. I liked it but I wish it aimed more for creepy than scary. It feels like the movie keeps trying to get you to jump out of your seat but failing. It would have been better with more scenes that were just unsettling rather than scary, like the sewer scene with Georgie.
The kids were the best part. Richie could have easily been a hackneyed "wisecracking asshole" character but the actor totally nailed it. And the
line from Eddie killed me. It seems like such a cheesy joke on paper but the actor's delivery was hilarious
The kids were the best part. Richie could have easily been a hackneyed "wisecracking asshole" character but the actor totally nailed it. And the
gazebos
Razzmatazzer
Member
Agreed, I really enjoyed this scene, mostly because I just didn't expect it.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Nothing about the film was scary. It was enjoyable when it was just a kids going on an adventure flick. It was impossible to feel any tension or be scared by anything else going on.
I don't regret seeing it but I'd barely even class it as a horror or thriller. It was like some 80s high school film with bad jump sequences. The kids were all pretty good actors and charming.
I don't regret seeing it but I'd barely even class it as a horror or thriller. It was like some 80s high school film with bad jump sequences. The kids were all pretty good actors and charming.
So I had my fair share of problems with it, mainly using Bev as a "damsel in distress" at the end. That and I felt, like others, that the movie should have focused on the sense of dread that Pennywise can create instead of always trying to rely on jump scares. But, jumps scares don't really work on me, so I guess that's just different strokes.
Looking at it as just a movie, I felt it was pretty solid. A bit disjointed at the start because they wanted to show It interacting with all of the kids, but once the gang all got together I thought it really picked up. The kids were all great and natural, and they really did have some laugh out loud lines with hilarious delivery at some points (gazebos!)
As an adaptation of the book... slightly disappointed. I already mentioned I wasn't a fan of how they changed Bev's story, but I also felt like they had to move the plot along so fast we didn't really get time seeing the Losers just being kids, including very little with them in the Barrens. The whole dam plot was cut out, for instance. Henry's backstory completely cut I'm sure made it hard for some people to figure out why he was carving his name into Ben (not even a single mention of the exam and summer school?), and his dad only having one scene I didn't feel set the tone as to why he would want to kill him. Also, Belch and Vic just disappear from the movie after Henry got the knife. Speaking of the Bowers gang, they weren't really the omnipresent terrors they were in the book either. They seemed to be everywhere. There was the lingering shot on the morlock hole when Ben was running in the river to get away from Henry... and they never do anything with it. And then, considering what It actually is, it was a bit disappointing that the solution to defeating it was the beat the crap out of it.
I don't mean to be bashing the movie too much. It's a 1100 page book, way too long for even two movies to fit everything into. Taken only as a movie I really enjoyed it and had fun with it. I just feel that there is an even better movie to be made out of the substance of the book.
Looking at it as just a movie, I felt it was pretty solid. A bit disjointed at the start because they wanted to show It interacting with all of the kids, but once the gang all got together I thought it really picked up. The kids were all great and natural, and they really did have some laugh out loud lines with hilarious delivery at some points (gazebos!)
As an adaptation of the book... slightly disappointed. I already mentioned I wasn't a fan of how they changed Bev's story, but I also felt like they had to move the plot along so fast we didn't really get time seeing the Losers just being kids, including very little with them in the Barrens. The whole dam plot was cut out, for instance. Henry's backstory completely cut I'm sure made it hard for some people to figure out why he was carving his name into Ben (not even a single mention of the exam and summer school?), and his dad only having one scene I didn't feel set the tone as to why he would want to kill him. Also, Belch and Vic just disappear from the movie after Henry got the knife. Speaking of the Bowers gang, they weren't really the omnipresent terrors they were in the book either. They seemed to be everywhere. There was the lingering shot on the morlock hole when Ben was running in the river to get away from Henry... and they never do anything with it. And then, considering what It actually is, it was a bit disappointing that the solution to defeating it was the beat the crap out of it.
I don't mean to be bashing the movie too much. It's a 1100 page book, way too long for even two movies to fit everything into. Taken only as a movie I really enjoyed it and had fun with it. I just feel that there is an even better movie to be made out of the substance of the book.
KeyBladerXIII
Member
Watched it again and I gotta say, I felt real sympathy for Stan at the end when he breads down after being attacked by the lady. When he starts crying and yelling about how the others aren't his friends and that they left him alone, that really got to me.
Book/miniseries spoilers:
The leper was awesome. I love Javier Botet and the way he uses his condition to really sell the otherworldliness of his creatures. "Do you think this will help me, Eddy?" was creepy ad fuck.
Book/miniseries spoilers:
Sucks how he's just going to peace out and not even bother reuniting wit the others.
The leper was awesome. I love Javier Botet and the way he uses his condition to really sell the otherworldliness of his creatures. "Do you think this will help me, Eddy?" was creepy ad fuck.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Barely horror really. Just a few jump scares with music to prompt you.
Unless you really dislike clowns I guess
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
more dread would be nice. i can imagine seeing pennywise 50% less and being happier with the result. the whole first scene he's in could have been a side shot for the big scare and emphasized the terror and struggle of what was happening without explicitly showing us the mechanics of it. in fact, a one shot of that struggle plus the kid trying to crawl away and being pulled back under the street would have been magnifique.
I liked the movie a lot. But it felt more like a monster movie than a horror, which is a shame given the fact that Pennywise feeds off of fear. I think of they focused more on that, the fear of Bev and Henry of their fathers, the fear of Mike for the racists in Derry, the fear of citizens for Henry's crazy dad, it would create a logical reason why something like Pennywise would be there, other than "there was a trappercamp here and everyone just vanished."
One note: Bill Skarsgard nailed it with his laugh, his smile, his left eye, and his deliveries. Fucking nailed it.
One note: Bill Skarsgard nailed it with his laugh, his smile, his left eye, and his deliveries. Fucking nailed it.
Kyleripman
Member
fuuuuck yes! just got my book in today, excited to dive in and this is excellent news~
i loved the original miniseries but it never piqued my interest enough to purchase the novel, skarsgard kid absolutely killed it and i've been thinking about derry since i saw it on the 8th!
yes. the bottom lip, the eye, the drool, the laugh.. everything about his performance was sublime. hope we get to see the cut scenes of b. skarsgard without makeup before he was "pennywise"
Woke up to a google news notification of this this morning, sort of creepy. Still, nice to know the exact date. Looks like I have a pretty good amount of time to finish the book.
Undead Fantasy
Member
That wasn't fear. Those lights make you insane/catatonic. It CAN kill you without you being afraid but fear is seasoning.
He also left first.
GlassEmpires
Member
Definitely. My favourite scene from the 90s adaptation is
Pennywise in the library teasing adult Richie.
The more I look back on the movie, the less I'm seeing it as scary. But this can all be remedied with this movie being scary for kids, while part 2 is scary for adults.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Just tell her it's basically just Stranger Things with jump scares and some gore.
Saw it last night. Not scary at all... but I kinda have an urge to see it again. Its actually a pretty decent movie, just not a scary one. The scares were too in your face. The best one was the most subtle. It was the librarian in the background, when Ben was reading the book on Derry. The kids and Skarsgård were all on point.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
If it even tries to follow the adult part of the novel, then
it will be Ben that sees Pennywise in the library. In the novel, Ben returns to the library because he had fond memories spending lots of time there as a child. He sees Pennywise, who does make some of the jokes he does in the mini-series. I've known some fans of the book scoff at Curry doing the "Prince Albert in a can" joke, but that, as well as the "Is your refrigerator running?" joke were ripped straight from the book. It's just after that, he laughs, imitates one of Richie's voices (non-PC voice), laughs some more, does the "You're too old to stop me" line (which was also in the mini-series), then turns into It's version of Dracula. And for those that know, It transforms into most of the famed movie monsters, but It's versions of those monsters differs from the Universal and popular "look" of them from slightly to completely as far as description is concerned.
I can see this being better than the adult section of the miniseries.
BigJonsson
Member
Saw this tonight, went in really not knowing what to expect other than Pennywise being a clown. My GF asked me if I was going to float before the movie started and I just blinked my eyes at her and shrugged.
I liked it, wasn't scary, I want to know more about It's origins
My GF told me the sequel will have them as adults so I guess I'll go see that when it is out
I liked it, wasn't scary, I want to know more about It's origins
My GF told me the sequel will have them as adults so I guess I'll go see that when it is out
Movie closing to 'The Promise' by 'When in Rome' was a perfect choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HI_xFQWiYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HI_xFQWiYU
mechashiva
Member
Liked it overall but the Silent Hill type hitter motion killed any tension in a scene it was added to for me. Really think he's more intimidating without the head bobble stuff. Kids were outstanding in it.