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This is the poorest generation of all time at creative standpoint...

A

ASilentProtagonist

Member
Well, you're not wrong. It was much easier to take risks during the PS2 era compared to now, where games are much more expensive to make. I also feel that Western devs are taking very little risks within the games themselves than before.

Hopefully with this new rise of Japanese games this will change. This year has been my favorite year of the gen by far because of daring games like Persona 5, Yakuza 0, GR2, and Nier: Automata.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
Play better games, OP. This gen is still a breath of fresh air after last gen, where it seemed like every publisher was intent on cloning the shit out of anything that sold well and dumbing things down, which led to crap like Hitman Absolution, Resident Evil 6 and Splinter Cell Conviction. We still see some of that this gen but I also think we see more creative risks.

And that's not even taking into account the sheer number of great indie games that are available these days.
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Famassu said:
To take your post seriously, even if we take just EA & Ubisoft (the publishers most crapped on for creative bankruptcy), they do try to push the envelope in some ways (not just graphixxx) with games like The Division, The Crew, Steep, Titanfall 1 & 2 and such.
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In what ways are these games pushing their respective genres forward? Titanfall offers some great traversal options that only a few games have picked up (though it arguably owes a huge debt to Mirror's Edge for plotting out the prototype and bringing the innovation to the AAA space in the first place). Not sure what The Division has done to push the envelope, unless you mean bringing well established MMO mechanics to a TPS? Should Destiny not get the credit for that? I haven't played Steep or The Crew.

To be clear, I'm asking in good faith. :)
 
Y

yyr

Member
Angel_DvA said:
I don't know if I'm getting too old or what but
papayapa-cat.gif
Click to expand...

People were saying this last gen also. And they were also wrong.

Go play some new genres and highly-rated indies.
 
Y

yuraya

Member
Steez said:
And you still didn't explain how the presentiation of the ending is so super creative.
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How many games have you played in your life where the final mission in the game is the same thing as the first mission in the game? All while connecting a story that spans 50+ hrs. How many times has Kojima done something like that in his past games?

I don't understand why you are having such a hard time understanding what creative means and why the mission is creative. Its okay to hate on the game but in the end of the day quality is subjective. Creativity is not.


Steez said:
Creativity =/= Refinement

The game plays like a regular TPS, just with really tight controls. There is nothing *new* (creative) about it.

It's fine that you love the game, but TPP is just not particularly creative.
Click to expand...

Controls in a video game directly affect the gameplay. So yes how you refine a games controls to tailor it to its gameplay is absolutely a factor in its creativity. Especially in the stealth genre. How you the player interact with all other enemy npcs in that game is very creative. The amount of options you have in that game are ten fold compared to other open world games and how you interact with enemies in them. There is no other game like it no matter how much you want to argue.

Also repetition in a video game is not a negative when the gameplay and controls are sublime.
 
B

BassForever

Member
ASilentProtagonist said:
Well, you're not wrong. It was much easier to take risks during the PS2 era compared to now, where games are much more expensive to make. I also feel that Western devs are taking very little risks within the games themselves than before.

Hopefully with this new rise of Japanese games this will change. This year has been my favorite year of the gen by far because of daring games like Persona 5, Yakuza 0, GR2, and Nier: Automata.
Click to expand...

Wat?

What part of persona 5 was daring exactly? Its one of the most safe sequels this year.
 
M

Mass_Pincup

Banned
ASilentProtagonist said:
Well, you're not wrong. It was much easier to take risks during the PS2 era compared to now, where games are much more expensive to make. I also feel that Western devs are taking very little risks within the games themselves than before.

Hopefully with this new rise of Japanese games this will change. This year has been my favorite year of the gen by far because of daring games like Persona 5, Yakuza 0, GR2, and Nier: Automata.
Click to expand...

All sequels to critically acclaimed games.

The only one I would consider daring would be Nier: Automata for basically doing away with everything from the first game ([spoilerat first glance][/spoiler]). But even then the number of people having played the first one was so low that it didn't really mattered.
 
M

MartyStu

Member
Toni Codrea said:
Western AAA? Sure, same song and dance for a decade or so. If you want a lot of creativity go indie and Japan.
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But this is not even true. Even Western AAA have been putting a ton of effort in.

Certainly much more so than Last Gen.

ASilentProtagonist said:
Well, you're not wrong. It was much easier to take risks during the PS2 era compared to now, where games are much more expensive to make. I also feel that Western devs are taking very little risks within the games themselves than before.

Hopefully with this new rise of Japanese games this will change. This year has been my favorite year of the gen by far because of daring games like Persona 5, Yakuza 0, GR2, and Nier: Automata.
Click to expand...

These are all sequels to well-regarded games. Most of those games are good, but none are daring. At all.
 
Nameless

Nameless

Member
Can't agree. Indies and mid-tier have been overflowing with creativity and even in the AAA space stuff like Witcher 3, BOTW, and Horizon all 'moved the needle' in ways we haven't seen before.
 
V

Vertti

Member
Actually you're wrong. This is the best generation at creative standpoint. You just don't play indies. Also it's gets harder and harder to invent something completely new when there's been games for over 30 years.
 
P

Par Score

Member
Speaking with absolutely zero subjectivity, there has objectively never been a more creatively diverse game development environment than there is right now.

More people are making games. More types of people are making games. We are in a golden age of creative freedom.


And yet the OP is pining for fucking Kojima to ride in on a white horse and save the industry. The dude that made 17 Metal Gear sequels, and would have kept making them if Konami didn't kick his ass to the kerb. Only he can save us, only he is willing to try new things.

What a joke.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
satsugaisan said:
Games are better now than they ever were.

Mechanics are better.

There are more genres.

More nations are represented.

OSTs are better

The indie scene is stronger than ever

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Oh hell naw

Freddo said:
I actually disagree with that.

Sure the music budgets increased and the sound quality increased many times over, but the music itself? I vastly prefer the older melody heavy game soundtracks over the boring underscore game music we have today that usually try to hide in the background like it was some TV/movie soundtrack. Heck, game companies even hire TV/music composers these days, but I feel there is a big difference between the two and it's unfortunate that games try to emulate the TV/movie soundtracks rather than continuing doing their own thing.

Take Yasunori Mitsuda, for example. His game soundtracks from the 90s are still super popular (Chrono Trigger, Xenogears and Chrono Cross) and fancovers are still made regularly, and then he moved over to real orchestral music and suddenly it became a lot more bland and I don't see any fancovers from his latest work, Valkyria Revolution, happening anytime soon. And he's not the only one, I feel it's pretty much that way with the majority of game composers.

Not that awesome game soundtracks aren't made any more, they are, but in my opinion they are noticeably more rare than they used to be.
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Yeah, agreed with this. I feel like indies and lower-budget games (e.g. Falcom's) have taken up the mantle of the cool, memorable, 32-bit era type of OSTs (Jamestown, Slain, Freedom Planet, Ys, etc.) that I enjoy so much. Most modern high-budget games, especially non-Japanese games, have such bland OSTs in comparison.

Par Score said:
Speaking with absolutely zero subjectivity, there has objectively never been a more creatively diverse game development environment than there is right now.

More people are making games. More types of people are making games. We are in a golden age of creative freedom.


And yet the OP is pining for fucking Kojima to ride in on a white horse and save the industry. The dude that made 17 Metal Gear sequels, and would have kept making them if Konami didn't kick his ass to the kerb. Only he can save us, only he is willing to try new things.

What a joke.
Click to expand...
lol, my thoughts exactly
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
This has been one of the best gens for creative output. OP, you gotta be playing exactly all the wrong games if this is your feeling.
 
T

TheRazielim

Member
ASilentProtagonist said:
Well, you're not wrong. It was much easier to take risks during the PS2 era compared to now, where games are much more expensive to make. I also feel that Western devs are taking very little risks within the games themselves than before.

Hopefully with this new rise of Japanese games this will change. This year has been my favorite year of the gen by far because of daring games like Persona 5, Yakuza 0, GR2, and Nier: Automata.
Click to expand...

Well, here's the thing. Persona 5 and Yakuza 0, even if great, are some of the safest sequels around. So nothing "daring" there.

Same goes with Witcher 3, actually. I'd love to see anyone tell me what is so revolutionary (hell, even evolutionary) about it, other than that it's well written. But that was already there with Witcher 1 and 2. The scale is bigger, but the open world adds nothing interesting beyond the fact that there's simply more quests.
 
T

TaterTots

Banned
Haly said:
So far, I'd say PUBG, but I don't think its popularity will last, or maybe Hearthstone.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure H1Z1's King of The Hill was out first. Only major difference between the two is jumping out of a plane, but I do agree those type of games are the new popular ones this generation.
 
S

Steez

Member
yuraya said:
How many games have you played in your life where the final mission in the game is the same thing as the first mission in the game? All while connecting a story that spans 50+ hrs. How many times has Kojima done something like that in his past games?

I don't understand why you are having such a hard time understanding what creative means and why the mission is creative. Its okay to hate on the game but in the end of the day quality is subjective. Creativity is not.
Click to expand...

I'm not having a hard time. It's not creative, it's random.
They couldn't find a way to tie the ridiculously obvious twist back into the narrative. There is no build up, no justification, just the same bad section at the end of the game.
It literally serves no purpose at all. The game would work the same, if Kojima omitted the last mission and just played the new cutscene.

If anything, the game treats its audience like morons, while simultaneously jerking itself off.

Hey idiots, here's a refresher of the beginning. Our story is so genius that you surely couldn't keep up with this amazing twist, if we didn't take you by the hand and guide you through the steps.

Get outta here with that nonsesne.

The idea would have worked a lot better if they had done anything new with that mission. Like let you play from a different perspective and let the player experience the "twist" firsthand. You know, doing something creative with it.

Also, Infinite has you play the same ending and begining. But that game justifies that decision by adding/removing things to/from the narrative.


yuraya said:
Controls in a video game directly affect the gameplay. So yes how you refine a games controls to tailor it to its gameplay is absolutely a factor in its creativity. Especially in the stealth genre. How you the player interact with all other enemy npcs in that game is very creative. The amount of options you have in that game are ten fold compared to other open world games and how you interact with enemies in them. There is no other game like it no matter how much you want to argue.
Click to expand...

A sheer amount of options was already present in the series over a decade ago. MGS2 & 3 had tooons of ways to tackle scenarios, TPP just controls better. And again, implementing better controls is refining something that was already present. In this case back in 2004.
You can't truly believe that a tight control scheme is somthing so creative, that it has to be mentioned at the forefront of video game creativity in 2017.

And man, frickin Deus Ex came out in 2000 and had more ways to approach stealthy gameplay than TPP.

yuraya said:
Also repetition in a video game is not a negative when the gameplay and controls are sublime.
Click to expand...

That's beside the point, but it's absolutely detrimental when there is no variety in gameplay and when the pacing is not good enough to justify a 50 hours experience.
 
W

Wozman23

Member
I'm not gonna retread the things said by others, but I agree with the problem being with AAA and not with indies.

Not only are AAA games safe because of financial risks, but it's also a lot easier to take an established idea or a current IP and build from it. So time is a big factor as well. Just look at games like Horizon and Sucker Punch's next game. We've gone from a 2-3 year dev cycle to something that often takes 5+ years. If you are a publisher/developer and you're looking to build a large new IP, a new engine, and a completely fresh experience, you're going to have to give it far more time than past generations.

With advancements in technology, like 4k, I can't imagine it is easy to keep up. We haven't even nailed 1080p/60fps yet. It would be great to see everyone just focus on that milestone, then look to push 4k. If technology keeps trying to one up itself, development is bound to implode at some point.

The beginning of this generation was pretty abysmal, with a ton of sequels and remasters. Couple that with the lackluster performance of many of the promising new IPs like Sunset Overdrive and The Order: 1886, and you've got a pretty bleak outlook. But this generation is finally starting to pick up some steam. If it can survive as long as the last one, I think we're bound to see some really great AAA games in the coming years.

Angel_DvA said:
I mean every generation so far had his game who define it, who create a new genre or make one genre better, what game has done that for this one ?
Click to expand...

Snake Pass is a 3D platformer with a completely unique way to traverse even though the genre has been around for 30+ years.
Thumper is a new type of rhythm game, and one hell of a VR game.
Resogun, Nex Machina, and Matterfall are revivals of the arcade that reimagine concepts and genre's from the 80's and apply the technological advances of today.
Velocity 2X merges the SHMUP genres and platforming effectively.
Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime's gameplay is a unique hybrid of twin-stick and simple platforming.
DOOM has one of the best campaigns in FPS history.
Horizon is not only one of the best looking games, but it has one of the best implementations of Photo Mode - a fairly recent addition to games.
There's been a progression of the Team Ico spirit through not only The Last Guardian, but indies like RiME and Abzu.
No Man's Sky pushed the limits of procedural generation.
Survival games, roguelike/lites, narrative driven games, and exploration games (walking sims) seem to be hitting their stride, and becoming more inclusive.
 
T

Taliban Stan

Member
This gen has been a super let down for me compared to ever gen since I was a teenager (PS1-era). Ever generation used to have it's great new franchises that really had a major impact on things.

GTA blew everyone away in the PS2 era, it got multiple entries, and it maintained excellence in PS3-era even with new games like Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, the rise of Call of Duty, all coming in and being declared great and finding success. We had Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

What are the counterparts? Every generation has some old franchises that keep bringing the heat along with some new ones that set things on fire. What is that for this gen? I feel like stuff like Bethesda RPG, Assassin's Creed, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Call of Duty, and all the other big games fell off hard and nothing replaced them. Shadow of Mordor is not on par with Assassin's Creed and even if it was that awesome, as of today we got a grand total of 1 vs how many good Assassin's Creed games?

GTAV is one of the best games this generation and it's a port of a PS3/360 game. Last of Us is one of the best games this generation... is a remaster of a PS3 game. Uncharted Collection is amazing, it's a PS3-era game. Uncharted for, an actual PS4 game, not so much. Just feels like we didn't proclaim PS2-era as a great games library because they put out a bunch of 480p version of PS1 games but actual games made just for the PS2-era were pretty middling.

It's damning to me that some of the best and most popular current gen games are ports of last gen games. Usually by this time, we're swimming in so many new awesome games that people aren't really checking for old games like that. Not so much this time around though.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Microsoft has released a fighter, a real time strategy game, a crazy mechanics third person shooter, a 3D Metroid like shooter, a Time warping game with neat mechanics, one of the best 2D Platformers ever, and they have a base building survival game, a 100% destruction multiplayer game, and a treasure hunting pirate MMO coming.

Maybe try some of their stuff out OP?
 
Bakkus

Bakkus

Member
Indie games sure are overrated in regards to how "innovative" they are. Most of them aren't in any way other than 'look how unique the artstyle is!'
 
A

Assanova

Member
The people saying "lol but indies!" don't get it. I will play the occasional indie, but nothing is on par with or made the same impact as a Mortal Kombat, Zelda, Wii Sports, or Call of Duty. Those are games that were so impactful that even people who don't play games knew what they were. Indies are nothing new. Past generations had those types of word of mouth low key games like the first Legacy of Kain, Jet Set Radio, and Mischeif Makers.

Where are the new creative games that rocked the industry so hard that they were all over the news, non-gamers knew what they were, and forced the industry to rethink how they design games? I think the only indie game to do that this gen was Minecraft, and even then, that game is from the PS3/360 era.
 
I

illamap

Member
Bakkus said:
Indie games sure are overrated in regards to how "innovative" they are. Most of them aren't in any way other than 'look how unique the artstyle is!'
Click to expand...

I think so too. Considering everyone seems to value innovation these days, it begs the question why aren't these "innovative" indie games financially much bigger successes, if innovation is what gamers crave.

My other point is even when indies have some innovative mechanic, what's the point if the said mechanic isn't actually fun.

I do think indies can be big hits financially if it's innovative and actually fun like minecraft regardless of the budget that went in to the game.
 
A

Aaron D.

Member
Well the OP is certainly a Hot Take, that's for sure.

I'd perhaps even agree somewhat if your only metric were the monthly NPD Top 10 lists.

Thankfully that collection only makes up a fraction of titles that serve the market. And with that in mind I'll simply disagree with the premise of the OP and move on.
 
B

bobbychalkers

Member
I spent much of my day yesterday in paint color warfare against a gang of squids wearing streetwear. This is clearly the best time to be playing games.
 
A

Aroll

Member
Horizon... ARMS... I mean, those just hit this year. New, inventive IP.

Also, stop limiting yourself to AAA games. Check out the indie scene. The creativity and originality is amazing. Better than it's ever been.
 
C

Caronte

Member
If all you play is the typical AAA crap what do you expect. Play more indies and mid-sized games, they are really good.
 
E

Equanimity

Member
Par Score said:
Speaking with absolutely zero subjectivity, there has objectively never been a more creatively diverse game development environment than there is right now.

More people are making games. More types of people are making games. We are in a golden age of creative freedom.


And yet the OP is pining for fucking Kojima to ride in on a white horse and save the industry. The dude that made 17 Metal Gear sequels, and would have kept making them if Konami didn't kick his ass to the kerb. Only he can save us, only he is willing to try new things.

What a joke.
Click to expand...

Servbot24 said:
This has been one of the best gens for creative output. OP, you gotta be playing exactly all the wrong games if this is your feeling.
Click to expand...

You guys are spot on.
 
A

Ahasverus

Member
Assanova said:
The people saying "lol but indies!" don't get it. I will play the occasional indie, but nothing is on par with or made the same impact as a Mortal Kombat, Zelda, Wii Sports, or Call of Duty. Those are games that were so impactful that even people who don't play games knew what they were. Indies are nothing new. Past generations had those types of word of mouth low key games like the first Legacy of Kain, Jet Set Radio, and Mischeif Makers.
Click to expand...
Why is everyone forgetting stuff like Life is Strange, Horizon, The Last Guardian etc? There are your low key innovative games.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
This is genuinely one of the most creative generations this medium has ever experienced due to the foray into new tech and QoL improvements for game development and rendering that makes innovative in game design or even much more improved and polished versions of older ideas much more feasible.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
Assanova said:
The people saying "lol but indies!" don't get it. I will play the occasional indie, but nothing is on par with or made the same impact as a Mortal Kombat, Zelda, Wii Sports, or Call of Duty. Those are games that were so impactful that even people who don't play games knew what they were. Indies are nothing new. Past generations had those types of word of mouth low key games like the first Legacy of Kain, Jet Set Radio, and Mischeif Makers.

Where are the new creative games that rocked the industry so hard that they were all over the news, non-gamers knew what they were, and forced the industry to rethink how they design games? I think the only indie game to do that this gen was Minecraft, and even then, that game is from the PS3/360 era.
Click to expand...
Overwatch is pretty huge.
 
M

MadMod

Member
I think the developers delving into VR alone makes this generation more creative than pretty much most of them. Exploring different forms of media within gaming is extremely innovative.

Even Late Shift and Kitchen are very creative.
 
W

Wozman23

Member
illamap said:
I think so too. Considering everyone seems to value innovation these days, it begs the question why aren't these "innovative" indie games financially much bigger successes, if innovation is what gamers crave.
Click to expand...

People who are passionate about gaming will tell you that indie games are gamer's games, similar to how a musician will tell you how much they respect another musician, who might not be the most popular, but is flawless on a technical level and fully comprehends what they can do with their instrument - like any of the guys from Rush. Or how a comedian will tell you they love some underappreciated comedian because they admire the type of jokes they write - like with Steven Wright.

However the average consumer simply wants safe experiences that remind them of other things they enjoyed. They want Call of Duty, Taylor Swift, and Jeff Dunham. It's basic human nature. AAA and the mainstream provide that comfort, and the companies that produce that content have the marketing dollars to gain widespread appeal.
 
S

Sloane

Banned
The thing video games really lack at the moment is ambition. Virtually all developers, even most indies, know exactly what they can reasonably achieve, so they aim for that, but hardly ever higher.

On some level that's great obviously, games have never felt more polished than today, but professionalism is almost always detrimental to creativity. I kind of miss the days when devs tried to do it all and, even when they failed, you could marvel at the pieces, trying to figure out how it was meant to be.

I get why people are playing it safe but, yeah, it's not exactly exciting.
 
P

Pennywise

Member
Par Score said:
Speaking with absolutely zero subjectivity, there has objectively never been a more creatively diverse game development environment than there is right now.

More people are making games. More types of people are making games. We are in a golden age of creative freedom.


And yet the OP is pining for fucking Kojima to ride in on a white horse and save the industry. The dude that made 17 Metal Gear sequels, and would have kept making them if Konami didn't kick his ass to the kerb. Only he can save us, only he is willing to try new things.

What a joke.
Click to expand...

This.

Also remakes aren't a bad thing unless they're done wrong.
There are always young players coming through and they haven't really played alot of classics or some of them aren't just holding up.
 
A

Assanova

Member
Uno Venova said:
Overwatch is pretty huge.
Click to expand...

I own Overwatch. It's a good game. Not as impactful to me, but I get why people like it.

Ahasverus said:
Why is everyone forgetting stuff like Life is Strange, Horizon, The Last Guardian etc? There are your low key innovative games.
Click to expand...

I played Life is Strange. Loved it, but two things about it:

1) It does not seem all that different than Heavy Rain, a game from last gen.

2) No one is arguing that there aren't good mid-tier games. People are saying that there are no new generation defining games this gen.

I haven't played Horizon yet and passed on TLG because of the crappy controls.
 
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