badcrumble
Member
That'll have to be touched on, I'm afraid. But ideally all of the
HA HA THAT WAS MY REAL PLAN ALL ALONG
Master Xehanort is back and he's got a new plan
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Kingdom Hearts Community Thread: Now everybody can be a Keyblade Wielder!
- Thread starter Blood Diamonds
- Start date
Meccanical
Member
I just skipped all of KH2's cutscenes.
Except in Timeless River, because I thought that place was charming as hell.
Except in Timeless River, because I thought that place was charming as hell.
And yes KHIII will be next. Other than these HD collections, there will be no other KH games before III. If there was even one that is not III, it would have to be a portable release, but that would go against what Nomura has said and a principle we are already seeing in action: KH is coming back to home consoles in a big way.
And of course there's that ending to DDD...
And of course there's that ending to DDD...
Seven Force
Banned
I guess I'd be fine with the latter.
DDD took BBS's brilliant reinvention of the series' combat and broke it. The best fights in BBS required well-timed blocks, counters, dodges and a careful management of the abilities at your disposal. D-Linking for a necessary health boost, or ability perk and chaining certain commands to amount Command Styles all worked in good balance. Flowmotion breaks the combat in DDD on the other hand and the camera can have a hard time keeping up. The Dream Spirits are distracting fluff too.
And I thought the later KH's had a much worse battle system than the main games. It's all about opinions, and I sure hope they go back to what it was in 1 and 2.
Haven't played BBS, I admit, but afaik it's similar to DDD's, which I disliked for the most part. Flowmotion was great though.
I can't. Terra is just too dumb. Just look at the final battle in BBS:
Terra: I was stupid and fell right into Xenahort's trap but I won't do it again.
Aqua: Xenahort is manipulating you, if you continue to fight him the darkness will consume you.
*Terra rushes towards Xenahort the moment he sees him*
Aqua: Xenahort is manipulating you, if you continue to fight him the darkness will consume you.
*Terra rushes towards Xenahort the moment he sees him*
badcrumble
Member
Agreed. I don't mind Flowmotion existing in the game, but it ought to be restricted to when you're in a Command Style instead of being accessible all the time. It breaks the combat AND the level exploration.
DDD's best contribution to the series' gameplay was definitely the stronger differentiation of the way characters moved (outside of Flowmotion). BBS had much better differentiation when it came to the actual combat and their movesets, but I loved how DDD gave Glide to Sora and Air Dash to Riku, among other things like different blocking moves, and especially Riku's fantastic Dark Roll move. Those moves actually did a great job of differentiating the way the characters felt in combat even though their commands were mostly really similar.
Don't really see how anyone can argue that I's battle system is better than 3D's or BBS's. It's clumsy in comparison and II is way more buttonsmashy and lacks a lot of features BBS & DDD add. BBS absolutely destroys especially I, but II as well and while the flowmotion stuff in 3D can break some battles, it's not an auto win move since a lot of bosses & enemies (especially on the hardest difficulty level, but even on the easier ones) can kill you very easily if you use it carelessly, plus it's kind of your own choice if you decide to spam it. Even action games like Bayonetta have their fair share of "game-breaking" moves that you can spam throughout the game, but it's way more fun to actually trying to utilize all the tools the game offers you.
I love BbS but I thought Terra had the worst voice acting in the entire series and Aqua wasn't much better.
It's my favorite battle system, however. I really dislike Flowmotion and hope it goes away. Eliminated the entire platforming aspect of Kingdom Hearts. You can win any fight with enough enough patience and aerial flowmotion ground smash attacks.
Is there any good reading out there on DDD's plot? The Kingdom Hearts wiki didn't go into detail on any of the time-traveling. It sounds like, currently,
But
It's my favorite battle system, however. I really dislike Flowmotion and hope it goes away. Eliminated the entire platforming aspect of Kingdom Hearts. You can win any fight with enough enough patience and aerial flowmotion ground smash attacks.
Is there any good reading out there on DDD's plot? The Kingdom Hearts wiki didn't go into detail on any of the time-traveling. It sounds like, currently,
Xehanort is chilling in Castle Oblivion with 11 Xehanort clones waiting for one last one, and he will then fight the 7 light keyblade wielders to start a new Keyblade War and forge a new X-Blade.
But
what happened to Organization XIII? Where did he get those 11 vessels? If Organization XIII was meant to be vessels for Xehanort's pieces of heart, did any of them actually turn into a Xehanort clone? You killed a bunch of them in KHII/CoM.
Or are the vessels just clones from alternate time dimensions or something? In that case did Organization XIII just completely fail and he scrapped them?
Or are the vessels just clones from alternate time dimensions or something? In that case did Organization XIII just completely fail and he scrapped them?
Seven Force
Banned
Well to be fair, the platforming in the series has never been particularly good in the first place. I don't like Flowmotion for the most part, but I do like that it encouraged bigger worlds that encouraged looking through every nook and cranny for treasure chests and such. I'd take that over the somewhat janky platforming the rest of the series has had.
Of course, the with the bigger worlds, the lack of NPCs of any sort become even more noticeable...
I agree that im not the biggest fan of flowmotion, but you cannot "win any fight by doing just ground smash attacks" on any difficulty harder than normal, especially the later fights.
The time it takes for you to complete the attack will often get you killed in critical especially, and while in flow motion you cant heal, flow motion was actually THE reason i died in a lot of fights on the harder difficulties again critical being a bitch.
As I said above, just because you CAN win (though, you really can't win all of them) battles that way doesn't mean you should do it and that there are no better ways. A lot of action games can be played that way, spamming some powerful move and going through the game mostly doing that, and none of them are any fun that way. It's boring and takes a lot longer to play DDD that way (especially since the strength of flow motion attacks gets relatively weaker as you progress in the game), so why not utilize all the features of the combat system, since it's more fun that way? It's like "herp derp, I spam one move and make this game not fun for me even though I could be playing it differently and still have way more fun", it's not like the game makes blocks completely pointless. The usefulness of them is still there.
From what I've understood, there's a time & place when all the Xehanort's can appear at once, in the meanwhile there's only the reincarnated Master Xehanort with his lackeys, trying to find suitable vessels. One of those was the end of 3D, the second time will probably come at the end of III for some epic last showdown.
Organization XIII still exists in its new form. Not all of the members were strong-willed enough to be
Xehanort's vessels, so he has had to come up with different ones. Some of the members were strong enough, as kind of indicated by the yellow eyes.
As said in the game, they have to abandon their physical bodies and only the heart can travel through time if there is a strong enough vessel at the other end to take it in
I'll take smaller, more detailed levels with regular platforming any day over the humongous environments of KH3DS that took forever to traverse and were completely barren in terms of scenery and personality.
It took forever to get anywhere, especially when doing sidequests or running through old levels again, and it didn't get better later in the game. In the old games you'd get glide or superglide and could navigate very quickly. Flowmotion is always the fastest way to get somewhere, and it's available from the beginning of the game. It always takes the same amount of time to get anywhere, even when doing tedious collecting and whatnot.
Plus I hope for KHIII to actually have NPC's and whatnot. If the environments are as huge as DDD, they'll still be incredibly spread out and the environments will still feel lifeless.
I think they should scrap it, put an emphasis back on air dashes (I'd prefer the faster ones from Days, though), and put new moves in for wall jumps (that don't propel you 10 stories into the air), pole swinging, rail grinding, etc. Move around at the same speeds as the old games but with a lot more maneuvers and flexibility. I think you could build some good platforming off of it too.
Plus I missed seeing a treasure chest somewhere up high and looking forward to coming back to get it when I have more abilities
You could use flowmotion to get anything at any time during DDD.In fact Block->Riposte is my stratagy of choice for Tron (rezlar? Or something?)
And Xemnas.
badcrumble
Member
Flowmotion didn't ruin the platforming, but it DID ruin backtracking with new movement abilities to explore old areas and find new items. Stuff like High Jump, Double Jump, and Glide basically ceased to impact the way you move around the world, despite being a huge deal in KH1. It reminded me a lot of the way that KH2 (pre-Final Mix) didn't ever require you to have any of the movement abilities to get around its levels.
Meccanical
Member
Yeah, level design in KH2 was just not there.
However I thought the Cavern of Remembrance in the Final Mix version was great.
Oh cool, a community thread was finally made.
Started off the series with CoM, unfortunately. Didn't have a PS2 at the time but once I finally did my first two purchases were KH and KH2.
As messed up as the story is, I enjoyed it until 358/2 days came along. I know she has some fans but Xion is a terrible character to the lore.
The same with Ven, as much as I LOVED BBS. If he was excluded or at least had a better explanation behind his background, I feel like the story would have been a lot better. Both him and Xion ruined Roxas' character and story.
Nonetheless, still love the game. Haven't gotten the chance to play KH3D since I don't have a 3DS, but it'll be my first purchase once I get one. Haven't played RE:Coded as well but I think that's the only game from the series I'm going to skip. :B
I look forward to KH3 too, and I believe (eh) that the story won't get any worse (eeehhh).
Started off the series with CoM, unfortunately. Didn't have a PS2 at the time but once I finally did my first two purchases were KH and KH2.
As messed up as the story is, I enjoyed it until 358/2 days came along. I know she has some fans but Xion is a terrible character to the lore.
The same with Ven, as much as I LOVED BBS. If he was excluded or at least had a better explanation behind his background, I feel like the story would have been a lot better. Both him and Xion ruined Roxas' character and story.
Nonetheless, still love the game. Haven't gotten the chance to play KH3D since I don't have a 3DS, but it'll be my first purchase once I get one. Haven't played RE:Coded as well but I think that's the only game from the series I'm going to skip. :B
I look forward to KH3 too, and I believe (eh) that the story won't get any worse (eeehhh).
Meccanical
Member
Me too, especially with Terra's story (which totally surprised me, did not think I would like him at all but his ended up being my favorite).
And aw common
I'm really looking forward to 3D!
(besides the fact that I heard Xion shows up and possible has a big role in the story? uggghh)
I'm not here to argue about opinions because I don't care what other people like more. I honestly liked the original system a lot more. I don't care if someone thinks it's clumsier, I simply had more fun in KH1 and 2.
Now that someone mentioned the flowmotion breaking the platforming, I take back what I said about it; it's fun in a fight, but it absolutely ruined the level design. I can't believe I almost forgot about it, but DDD's level design was atrocious.
Ugh seriously?
Yep. And when you factor in that this is a character who has been training in the light for years, it really is pathetic.
Hey, kisaya~
Hey, kisaya~
<3 Forgive me.
I love Xion
Best character theme in Kingdom Hearts as well. Possibly best, most suited character theme in all video gaming.
I agree, but a great theme isn't enough for me to give her my love xP
But she stars in two of the best cutscenes in the series:
<3 Forgive me.
I agree, but a great theme isn't enough for me to give her my love xP
''Please don't hold back, Axel.''
How can you not like her?
Meccanical
Member
How can you like her?
I never even played Days, I'm completely neutral to her.
Of course. And we both dislike Ven! So ~hi5~
Xion is the first girl in the series to actually not be nothing more than a damsel. She also is one of the few characters to actually develop, set out a goal, and then complete said goal. Not to mention her story is definitely the most tragic in the series -- Sorry BbS fans, I didn't feel any remorse for T/A/V.
Meccanical
Member
I like Larxene
Ah! Yes, I missed Larxene. She was only with us for about 6 minutes of Chain of Memories, but it was a good 6 minutes.
I think flowmotion made basic traversal so much more fun. It has that kind of "WEEEEEEE, I'M FLYING!" fun factor to it. It did make the old moves like Glide pointless. The thing with this franchise is, though, that they like to improve on things that have potential. Flowmotion is a cool mechanic that isn't balanced as well as it should've, but that's no reason to abandon it completely. They can make adjustments to the way flowmotion works and perhaps make changes to level designs so that stuff like Glide & High Jump still have their uses (i.e., if there are no walls or poles, there's no flowmotion).
Please. I've followed the series since the first game's release and have read many interviews of Nomura. Maybe I don't remember everything he's said (because he's basically a lunatic), but even after I finished KH2, I didn't think there was THAT MUCH that we needed to know about that warranted 4 full length games inbetween KH2 and KH3. I personally feel like they went way overboard on some ideas and the convolution. I mean, they're fun games, but holy shit, we would have been fine with just some intermediate events (like COM) and not the six years and the four games worth of soap opera inbetween KH2 and KH3, plus the fact that Nomura suddenly decided a few years ago that these 8 games are just going to be ONE SAGA of the ENTIRE series to come? Like seriously wtf. Hire an editor. Learn to condense.
No, I'm suggesting that the majority of this convoluted, complicated backstory/sidestory mess that they made after KH2 was not needed and just a way to add more complication and bide time to KH3. It was only after KH1, after all, that Nomura even began to fully consider this being a long-running series with a huge ass plot structure. That's why KH1 is simplistic in comparison. There didn't need to be so much crazy story to what's going on between KH2 and KH3, Nomura just decided he wanted to flesh it out more, which I don't think was necessary. Every single game he's filling one plot hole and digging two more.
I mean, I like them, I just don't think they were all necessary. BBS was great though.
Because she brings up interesting plot points. What makes her less worthy of an existence than a nobody or even Sora?
''=====Day 224: Xion=====
Even if Xion is a Replica - a puppet - she's still Xion. I understand that in my head, but how do I interact with her now? Riku-Replica was just a tool, but I can't just use Xion. No, I was wrong to have just used Riku-Replica in the first place. How is a man-made puppet any less worthy than a Nobody that was never meant to exist at all? They're both ambiguous. Tenuous at best. And she's my friend. Even if neither of us should exist, that doesn't invalidate the bonds we form. Next break we get, I told her we'd all go to the beach. I hope we get the chance. Our little summer vacation. I know if we can get together and laugh about stupid stuff, this nagging doubt will go away.
Report Author: Axel''
Then there's the conflict of the power balance between Roxas and Xion; you care for both of them but one's existence will cause the other's demise. And, of course, the last few days of her tragic life;
where she fights with her best friends for her right to be destroyed and reunited with Sora, and then everyone just forgets her sacrifices.
I'm simply saying that from objective POVs, BBS & 3D have so many improvements over the more buttonsmashy predecessors (not that they aren't fun) that I can't comprehend how anyone would want to go back to those games (II did have some great enemy encounters that are really fun, but don't mistake those to how much simpler the combat system is). Almost everyone who's played BBS think that it's the highlight of the series in terms of combat.
Better than II's straightforward worlds with no exploration at all... :3
I like going by release date.
Because you get increasingly refined mechanics (usually) and the questions are answered as they go along.
If you start with BBS you'll end up with questions about the answers they give to you to answer the questions you would have had if you didn't start with BBS lol.
How can anyone hate Sora.
:/
I just didn't like the fact that she played a part in Roxas leaving Org XIII, when really he left because he wanted to find out more about his origins.
Because he ''created'' Roxas and consequently Xion and but in the end they get the short end of the stick while he gets to live his life. DDD *ending spoilers*
implied that they will fix this, but I still hold a grudge towards him.
PRjumpman124
Member
That's why KH1 is still my favorite even though I love the other entries. You can appreciate the game's story on its own, and the concept of light vs darkness and friendship is really good imo.
Meccanical
Member
You act like he did this on purpose.
For all intents in purposes Roxas and Xion shouldn't exist.
SimpleGamer
Member
I didn't understand how the
worked in DDD. I really got confused at the end. Can anyone explain how
Time travel
master xehanort and young xehanort met up?
BigBadShamoo
Banned
But she stars in two of the best cutscenes in the series:
''Please don't hold back, Axel.''
How can you not like her?
Damn. How can you not like a character like that. That scene. I haven't even watched it yet but I already know how I'll react.
Meccanical
Member
Who said anything about disliking larxene?
Oh I wasn't implying you did, I was merely sharing the love.
Share the love
Also totally random:
This gif reminds me when sora was smiling for goofy and donald in kh1
Edit:
Found it!
Seven Force
Banned
I'm probably going to be waaaay of base here, but my understanding is that:
- In the time between being split between a heartless and a nobody and showing up on Destiny Islands at the beginning of KH1, Ansem/Xehanort's Heartless travels back in time. (Because apparently, beings without a body can time travel in a limited capacity.)
- He goes back in time to meet his younger self, passes on the power to time travel to him, and instructs him to travel forward through time to pick up the various incarnations of his future self. After which, Ansem/Xehanort's Heartless gets snatched back to him own time, just in time for KH1 to start.
- Young Xehanort does just that, getting everyone except Master Xehanort (Who was going to be revived after Ansem & Xemnas were beaten in KH1 and KH2, anyway)
- He goes back in time to meet his younger self, passes on the power to time travel to him, and instructs him to travel forward through time to pick up the various incarnations of his future self. After which, Ansem/Xehanort's Heartless gets snatched back to him own time, just in time for KH1 to start.
- Young Xehanort does just that, getting everyone except Master Xehanort (Who was going to be revived after Ansem & Xemnas were beaten in KH1 and KH2, anyway)
What...? How could you even say such a thing... even if it were true?
The fact is they came into existence due to Sora's actions and that's all that matters. Sora should own up to his responsibilities. DDD sppoilers
He kind of does in DDD, but he still puts his right to exist on the same level Roxas's.
Because The world that never was is special.
EDIT: You weren't asking why they could but how. My bad.
I think YX just travels forwards in time until he meets his old self.
Wow are you a huge moron. I know Nomura isn't a good writer, but calling him a lunatic considering all he has done for fans & to Square Enix is shitty beyond belief.
Basically, there are two important games after II. Hardly some huge worthless use of time. Days is a sidestory for people who wanted to see what Roxas did during his time in the Organization, outsourced to a small developer while their own team worked on the bigger game, so it's not like it has had any effect on III happening.
They went overboard in wanting to explain the history/origin of the big evil of the series, showing more of a character that a lot of people liked (Roxas) and having one game that builds up to III?
We've had two games that ARE like Chain of Memories (BBS even more important) and one kind of side-story-ish installment. The essential saga so far is
BBS -> KHI -> Chain of Memories -> II -> DDD
That's five games to tell a story that spans more than a decade. The thing is, each game so far has contained a sufficiently self-contained, non-bloated story that also ties to a bigger whole, except Coded, which is pointless. And Days has way too much ice cream eating. But yeah the essential games are pretty direct and to the point with not too much fluff (there's the Disney stuff, but that's something people expect from the series at this point).
The only thing they've handled badly is the fact that they've been released on so many different platforms. But that's not completely in their hands (old platforms have died & new ones replaced them) and they are fixing that now with these HD Collections.
What in hell does this have to do with editing or condensing? How is this any different than, say, Star Wars having the original saga, the prequel saga and countless other ones in the forms of games, books & such. It's just one universe for which he has a lot more ideas for. Even with better editing he'd still continue Kingdom Hearts after III. And there's not much to condense
But there ISN'T "so much crazy story to what's going on between II & III." The only game taking place between II & III is DDD and that tells of how Sora & Co are preparing for the final battle, with a relatively short game for the franchise. BBS tells about the past and is absolutely essential to the whole saga. Days isn't essential to it all and it doesn't really add anything to the crazy that is the bigger picture of the KH saga. It just explains Roxas' time in the organization.
You know I was considering to get a 3DS for DDD alone but after reading some spoilers here and there, I'm glad I didn't
Seriously!? Time fucking travel? Out of all the things you could pull out of your ass Nomura, you choose the most contrive and needlessly convoluted excuse just so to make your pet Sora a bigger badass when he inevitably beat all 13 version of Xehanorts.
People may have a problem with BBS' story but I felt that it was a step in the right direction in a sense that it was trying to make some sense out of the previous game while adding in more. I don't know what to call the mess that's DDD.
And does anyone else laugh at the notion that Xehanort is trying to create a Keyblade War with only like 20 keyblades user? Compare to the scale we saw at the Keyblade Graveyard, I was expecting something more
People may have a problem with BBS' story but I felt that it was a step in the right direction in a sense that it was trying to make some sense out of the previous game while adding in more. I don't know what to call the mess that's DDD.
And does anyone else laugh at the notion that Xehanort is trying to create a Keyblade War with only like 20 keyblades user? Compare to the scale we saw at the Keyblade Graveyard, I was expecting something more