• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Reggie: AM2R killed because it was a commercial product without a charge

A

Alex_Mexico

Member
WHat I'll never understand (but I'm thankful for) is that if Nintendo's own Metroid II remake has been in development for two years then it must've been in production around the time AM2R was about to release so why wait until after it releases to C&D? I mean Im happy they didnt because thanks to that I played the best 2D Metroid I've ever played but why wait until after? They must've thought the game would suck or never become so big that it might overshadow them. Thats my only explanation.
 
C

Crayolan

Member
I'm guessing when he says commercial product he means it looks so good that they could probably sell it. All the things Nintendo has been targeting with C&D's recently has been high quality stuff which could potentially serve as a replacement for actual Nintendo releases.
 
M

MCN

Banned
Ah, the childish "indie devs should be able to do what they want with other people's work with no consequences" shit again. Never change, GAF.
 
jetsetnickradio

jetsetnickradio

Member
Honestly, I enjoyed playing AM2R so much that I'm looking forward to playing the 3DS game way more than I probably would have otherwise. I always liked Metroid games, but AM2R made me fall in love with the series again and crave a proper new game.
 
F

finley83

Banned
RumbleHumble said:
It'd be real great if Nintendo picked up the guy who dev'd AM2R. That'd do a great job helping win some people over who got bummed out by what happened.
Click to expand...

Capcom did a really good thing when they shut down the RE2 fan remake. They didn't hire them, but did invite them to the studios to talk about their ideas for what a RE2 remake could be, and showed them a load of cool insider stuff that they weren't able to share publically.

Basically they C&D'd them in the nicest way possible and it sounded like the guys involved were pretty happy about how it all transpired.
 
A

Alex_Mexico

Member
Htown said:
you know they've been selling Metroid 2 on eshop since like 2011, right?
Click to expand...

And I would've bought it to support them in exchange for me playing AM2R for free if it wasnt because they only let you play original GB games on 3DS for reasons beyond my understanding. I dont own a 3DS but I do owned a WiiU so I bought Zero Mission on that one.
 
T

Tarextherex

Banned
Who cares that AM2R is free. They are releasing a Metroid 2 remake. They want people to buy their own remake of that game rather than simply playing the free game made by people using their IP. Even if you're indie and release your game for free you shouldn't use other companies' IPs. Simple as that

It's like the internet always wants to spin those kinds of news into a topic about "Nintendo is archaic, they hate their fans, PR spin, fuck NOA, etc".
 
synce

synce

Member
Doctoglethorpe said:
They should start suing erotic fanfic and cartoon porn makers next. Who knows how much money they lost cause people were already satisfied.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Nintendo actually did take action against a guy who drew a Pokemon doujin

And honestly it's tough to feel bad for anyone who tries to make fan games, even if free. By now everyone knows the companies don't like it and it'll always end the same way. You could've made something totally original instead, which is becoming more and more rare these days
 
C

Crub

Member
He might have been unaware of the game or simply didn't know what to reply. It's just the usual PR talk. It's never worth reading into what Reggie says.
 
R

Robert at Zeboyd Games

Banned
KojiKnight said:
Not a great look to announce their remake of Metroid 2 a year after AM2R even if their version was already in the works by then.

It may not look stupid, but it would look like Nintendo was just stealing ideas from fans.
Click to expand...

Because remaking an old game is such an incredible creative idea that Nintendo could never have come up with it on their own, especially with a series where they've already remade a game in the past (Metroid: Zero Mission).
 
T

Toxi

Banned
synce said:
Pretty sure Nintendo actually did take action against a guy who drew a Pokemon doujin

And honestly it's tough to feel bad for anyone who tries to make fan games, even if free. By now everyone knows the companies don't like it and it'll always end the same way. You could've made something totally original instead, which is becoming more and more rare these days
Click to expand...
Dude was literally working on this since 2006.

Also, again, why are people criticizing others for spending their time on a company's IP on a video game forum?
 
R

RK128

Member
finley83 said:
Capcom did a really good thing when they shut down the RE2 fan remake. They didn't hire them, but did invite them to the studios to talk about their ideas for what a RE2 remake could be, and showed them a load of cool insider stuff that they weren't able to share publically.

Basically they C&D'd them in the nicest way possible and it sounded like the guys involved were pretty happy about how it all transpired.
Click to expand...

The best part is those guys are working on a new horror project completely original, so they are still doing what they love despite the C&D. Capcom were really good in that situation honestly.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
Alex_Mexico said:
WHat I'll never understand (but I'm thankful for) is that if Nintendo's own Metroid II remake has been in development for two years then it must've been in production around the time AM2R was about to release so why wait until after it releases to C&D? I mean Im happy they didnt because thanks to that I played the best 2D Metroid I've ever played but why wait until after? They must've thought the game would suck or never become so big that it might overshadow them. Thats my only explanation.
Click to expand...

To force the people at MercurySteam to play it to demand better? Can't exactly do that if they C&D it before it releases.
 
V

VariantX

Member
Alex_Mexico said:
WHat I'll never understand (but I'm thankful for) is that if Nintendo's own Metroid II remake has been in development for two years then it must've been in production around the time AM2R was about to release so why wait until after it releases to C&D? I mean Im happy they didnt because thanks to that I played the best 2D Metroid I've ever played but why wait until after? They must've thought the game would suck or never become so big that it might overshadow them. Thats my only explanation.
Click to expand...

Just be glad they did wait so we got a "complete" version of the game publicly available instead of us wondering about what could have been. If Nintendo's remake is deficient in any way, that's exactly where the conversation will go if AM2R was never finished.
 
N

Nessus

Member
I think maybe he's talking about the difference between something like fan art, and something that competes directly on the same level as an actual Nintendo game?

I still think they should have figured out a way to work with him and release it on like 3DS. Either way I'm so glad they waited until after the game was done and released on the Internet to send the C&D.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Nessus said:
I still think they should have figured out a way to work with him and release it on like 3DS. Either way I'm so glad they waited until after the game was done and released on the Internet to send the C&D.
Click to expand...
That would have been a legal nightmare. And the person making AM2R wasn't exactly interested in making a commercial product.
 
H

higemaru

Member
Zennistrad said:
Keep in mind that it's entirely plausible that Nintendo didn't start developing Samus Returns until after AM2R had proved there was significant fan support for more Metroid.

They'd never admit that, of course, but given their Let's Play bullshittery in the past it's not hard to imagine that they'd shut down a fan project and make their own replacement because they'd rather not have something be popular that they can't make money from.
Click to expand...
The 3DS remake has been in development since 2015 according to E3 interviews. Additionally, it was around late 2015 that rumors started to appear regarding potential Metroid projects for Wii U/3DS being pitched by MercurySteam.

Also, like obviously AM2R is of questionable legality, and while I wish Nintendo had a better relationship with its fan creators, AM2R is easily downloadable and they let it sit out there for long enough for the people who really wanted it to download it. The Streisand effect takes care of everyone else. Fan creators just need to be stealthier about this kind of stuff. If you post an extremely ambitious fangame on Reddit or something, it'll gain traction quickly.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
Nessus said:
I think maybe he's talking about the difference between something like fan art, and something that competes directly on the same level as an actual Nintendo game?

I still think they should have figured out a way to work with him and release it on like 3DS. Either way I'm so glad they waited until after the game was done and released on the Internet to send the C&D.
Click to expand...

I mean...they ARE doing their own Remake of Metroid 2.
 
W

Wamb0wneD

Member
RPGCrazied said:
I get you want to protect your ip, but am not getting how its a commercial product when its free.
Click to expand...

Because it has the potential to cut into sales of their own, actually commercial product. Which happens to be a remake of the very same game. It's not that complicated.
 
Y

Yukinari

Member
Again im curious how Nintendo is gonna deal with youtubers who get early copies that will probably mention AM2R in their Samus Returns reviews.

Samus Returns has a few ideas from AM2R but even if its coincidence they will get compared.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Wamb0wneD said:
Because it would cut into sales of their own commercial product. Which happens to be a remake of the very same game. It's not that complicated.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make AM2R a commercial product. That statement was just a typical Reggie-ism.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Crankshaft said:
I feel like they should just change some sprites and the text and then release AM2R as an original game.
Click to expand...
DrM64 isn't interested in selling a game. He wanted to make a modern version of Metroid 2.

Ironically, if Nintendo had revealed Samus Returns a few years earlier, AM2R would have probably never finished. It was there to fill in a hole that Nintendo is now filling.
 
Rest

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Mutant said:
It satisfied a demand for free, I guess?
Click to expand...
I think that's the idea. That's one of the things copyright exists to stop. The creator of something has the right to be compensated for it, it you use somebody else's idea and don't pay them, it doesn't matter if you're getting paid or not.
 
V

Vital Tundra

Member
MCN said:
Ah, the childish "indie devs should be able to do what they want with other people's work with no consequences" shit again. Never change, GAF.
Click to expand...

Many of us think Nintendo shouldn't be so aggressive about their need to go after fan projects because most other publishers let it be. Its the same thing with monetizing youtube gameplay videos of Nintendo IP, Nintendo is one of the few actually claiming videos and it pisses people off. They have a right to protect their IP under the law, but it doesn't make other childish for believing they should let it go when the current standard is that fan projects are okay to most publishers.
 
O

orborborb

Member
I think Nintendo walked a fine line correctly. Don't shut it down before it gets popular among the sort of people who preorder games and follow game news sites on a weekly basis (which helps both the dev gain publicity and builds hype for the series among the die-hards), but DO shut it down before it can get out of control and actually directly compete with your own products among the sort of people who aren't necessarily going to be buying the official Nintendo version.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
KojiKnight said:
Not a great look to announce their remake of Metroid 2 a year after AM2R even if their version was already in the works by then.

It may not look stupid, but it would look like Nintendo was just stealing ideas from fans.
Click to expand...

Lol, maybe to you and a handful of other people. No rational thinking person would come to this conclusion
 
W

Wamb0wneD

Member
KojiKnight said:
Not a great look to announce their remake of Metroid 2 a year after AM2R even if their version was already in the works by then.

It may not look stupid, but it would look like Nintendo was just stealing ideas from fans.
Click to expand...

UnemployedVillain said:
Lol, maybe to you and a handful of other people. No rational thinking person would come to this conclusion
Click to expand...

Lmao i didn't see this. Yeah, Nintendo stealing their own IP from fans. Makes sense.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
His wording was absolutely horrible but I get what he's saying. AM2R was such a high quality project that Nintendo actually felt commercially threatened by it as they secretly prepared their own M2 remake. It's reasonable even if incredibly poorly said.

But they didn't shut it down until it was basically done, right? So now fans can pick their flavor when it comes to M2 remakes.
 
zenspider

zenspider

Member
Zennistrad said:
"Commercial product without a charge" makes about as much sense as "a square without four sides."
Click to expand...

F2P games aren't commercial products?

AM2R was taking money off the table for Nintendo's Metroid products. It doesn't matter if they charged or nor, Nintendo saw it as a commercial net loss.
 
D

DarkConfidant

Member
It's smart for them to protect their IP. Regardless of how good a fan thing might be, it's in their interest to be the sole provider of their IP, so as not to cheapen the value of their own stuff.

I'm sure there's alternatives, but it's not their obligation to seek those out to be nice.
It's cold, but important. Things like the Nintendo PlayStation and the Phillips CD-i were pulled out of for this same objection to lack of control of their own content. The latter they weren't able to get out of completely, and we have memes forever to commemorate it.

I'm not saying AM2R is Wand of Gamelot.
I am saying that their is little incentive for Nintendo to have fans give Metroid away for free when they're trying to sell it.

It's why Steve Jobs killed off 3rd party Macs when he returned to Apple. Don't let anyone outdo with your own stuff, or worse, make you look bad.


I personally would like them to hire that fan though, as AM2R was one my favorite games I played last year. Or at least cut some kind of deal or good will pact. Like when that guy was hosting NSMB Wii roms before the game out, and they cut the lawsuit and gave him free crap.

So Reggie didn't say it the best way to please the GAF crowd, but he's making the correct move. Or at least what is arguably the correct business move.

I want better than this, but I don't expect it.

They're not sega.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
zenspider said:
F2P games aren't commercial products?

AM2R was taking money off the table for Nintendo's Metroid products. It doesn't matter if they charged or nor, Nintendo saw it as a commercial net loss.
Click to expand...

F2P games have microtransactions as their commercial model. AM2R doesn't.
 
N

NegativeCero

Banned
What a weird quote. We all know what their motivations were, I just wish they'd just out and say it when it comes to this case specifically.
 
I

IsntChrisL

Member
It's pretty obvious why they issued the C&D. They were working on their own remake and this game kind of stepped on their plans. We might not like it but it's true. If Samus Returns wasn't in development this would have probably never been an issue.

BernardoOne said:
F2P games have microtransactions as their commercial model. AM2R doesn't.
Click to expand...

That only means that Nintendo's $40 game is competing with a free game.
 
T

Team Filler

Member
Alex_Mexico said:
WHat I'll never understand (but I'm thankful for) is that if Nintendo's own Metroid II remake has been in development for two years then it must've been in production around the time AM2R was about to release so why wait until after it releases to C&D? I mean Im happy they didnt because thanks to that I played the best 2D Metroid I've ever played but why wait until after? They must've thought the game would suck or never become so big that it might overshadow them. Thats my only explanation.
Click to expand...

As tin-foil hat of a theory as it sounds, I honestly believe they did so deliberately because they wanted to let the guy finish even though Nintendo themselves were working on a remake as well. The inevitable C&D was going to look bad regardless of when it came, so at the very least they let the guy complete the game and put it out there on the internet (where nothing really dies once it's out there) before sending the legal hammer his way.
 
D

Durante

Member
Saty said:
While i'm not certain, i'm pretty sure Valve released HL games after Black Mesa started development. Besides, they are selling HL1 and HL1:Source in the same marketplace.

So not only did Valve not shut down Black Mesa all those years it was a free fan project, they since permit the devs to make money out of it.
Click to expand...
You don't understand, Valve is totally evil and just like the other companies, if not worse!
Letting people make commercial (and also non-commercial) products based on their properties without repercussions and even offering them on their own platform must just be ruse.

They are also fiercely protective of their research, and sue everyone who even dares to try reverse-engineer their stuff. It's not like they send gift boxes with literally years of internal prototypes and 10k+ USD worth of PCBs to some hackers on the internet.
 
K

KratosEnergyDrink

Member
Vital Tundra said:
They have a right to protect their IP under the law, but it doesn't make other childish for believing they should let it go when the current standard is that fan projects are okay to most publishers.
Click to expand...

There are simply no other publishers out there with this enormous amount of well known and still used franchises. Nintendo is in a very unique position in this.

Most fan projects out there are about dead or worthless IPs, but Nintendo tends to reincarnate even a decade old franchises from time to time.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
IsntChrisL said:
It's pretty obvious why they issued the C&D. They were working on their own remake and this game kind of stepped on their plans. We might not like it but it's true. If Samus Returns wasn't in development this would have probably never been an issue.



That only means that Nintendo's $40 game is competing with a free game.
Click to expand...

If Nintendo's own remake is so terrible that it can't compete with a remake made by one dude in his free time, that tells me more about Nintendo's effort than anything else tbh.
 
K

King Al B

Member
Did the download page or the website for AM2R have advertising on it. Did the creator get advertising money for people visiting the site. Would that counted as profiting from AM2R? I dont know the answers to any of these questions, but these came to mind.
 
L

Lucky Seven

Banned
Is that a poorly worded way of saying that it was the 3DS game without a charge? So pretty much a confirmation of what we suspected was true.
 
S

Seth

Member
Nintendo can kill any project thats using the things they own if they want. Fuck off with this acting like they did something wrong shit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Locked
How The Last of Us became 'the greatest story' ever told in video games
Opinion Analysis 2 3 4 5
203
17K
Elysium44 replied
Everything wrong with Halo Infinite: (Spoilers) THERE'S A LOT WRONG!
Opinion 2 3 4
194
13K
solidus12 replied
PS Blog: Starting in November, PlayStation Plus members will get three PS VR bonus games for no extra charge
News Business Deals 2
50
4K
IntentionalPun replied
[Bustle] Please Respect Mia Khalifa’s Rebrand
6 7 8 9 10
499
62K
Maiden Voyage replied
Kotaku: Gears 5 Developer Says It’s Riskier Than The Last One
Clickbait
13
1K
Wolfgang Jr replied
Top Bottom