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Wolf Akela
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:25 AM)
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Why not punish cops who turn off body cams?
bosseye
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:26 AM)
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America seems to have a serious problem with their police. I don't see anything changing either. No body cam (unless off by a verifiable fault) should be treated with the deep suspicion it deserves. Problem is the entire system appears to be so internally corrupt you have to doubt any cop would ever be held to account regardless.
Future
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:27 AM)

Originally Posted by Wolf Akela

Why not punish cops who turn off body cams?

This is what I don't get. Drive without a license and I'm fined $500. Leave bodycams off as a cop? Just another day, hopefully with some paid leave
Ethelwulf
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:27 AM)
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"We are investigating...".
Broken Hope
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(07-17-2017, 08:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by bosseye

America seems to have a serious problem with their police. I don't see anything changing either. No body cam (unless off by a verifiable fault) should be treated with the deep suspicion it deserves. Problem is the entire system appears to be so internally corrupt you have to doubt any cop would ever be held to account regardless.

Their police problem is a side effect of their gun problem, if anyone and everyone wasn’t potentially carrying a gun the police wouldn’t need to be armed as standard and crappy cops wouldn’t be murdering people.
Famassu
(07-17-2017, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shauni

Wow, I didn't actually know that, but I'm not surprised. Lol at costly training. The training they do have is so light I can't imagine it's that costly

Anything above 0$ is "costly training" in a fiscally conservative "taxes & paying for anything with tax money are the devil's invention" country like US.
30yearsofhurt
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by danm999

Apart from racial issues, lack of guns, a huge part of this is training.

It looks like in Minneapolis you undergo 14-16 weeks of training to become a police officer.

From what I can gather in New South Wales, the theoretical component of the course at Goulburn academy alone is at least 28 weeks.

Had a couple of friends from my cricket club go through AFP and NSWPS and their training was about 2 years.
The big difference is that every bullet has to be accounted for here. You fire one off you better be able to justify it cause the paperwork is "horrendous".
In Australia firing a gun is an ordinary police officers last resort.
FreedomFighter
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:41 AM)
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The addendum to OP is massively disturbing. So the cop shot past his partner to kill the lady? I guess foreign nationals can get it to. Hope this story makes the rounds around the globe for all to see.

It's as if the cops were like "l need a vacation, let's kill her and get some of that paid leave. Worked for Yanez."
hamchan
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:44 AM)
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WTF America
H2Yo
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by danm999

Did you know Australians are descended from criminals? The officer was just defending themselves.

So are Americans. They commited treason against the English. So that rules out that theory.
Last edited by H2Yo; 07-17-2017 at 08:49 AM.
GrizzleBoy
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:46 AM)
Just sounds like America to me.

This is what police do over there.

It's literally in their training.


Maybe if the majority of the population could vote for someone who will do something about it. You know, what with the finest "democracy in the world and such.

Any day now.

Americans will surely kick up enough (or ANY) fuss for politicians to take notice and make serious reform a party platform.

Any day now.

Basically, I'm blaming Americans in general.
Last edited by GrizzleBoy; 07-17-2017 at 08:49 AM.
Famassu
(07-17-2017, 08:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by 30yearsofhurt

Had a couple of friends from my cricket club go through AFP and NSWPS and their training was about 2 years.
The big difference is that every bullet has to be accounted for here. You fire one off you better be able to justify it cause the paperwork is "horrendous".
In Australia firing a gun is an ordinary police officers last resort.

Yeah. Potential KKK member, neo nazi, dumb ass police exist everywhere (the ex-husband of my aunt is one racist ass motherfucker of a police). The difference is that, yeah, the education is more thorough and usually emphasizes de-escalation/non-violent approach above "shoot first, never even ask questions" and usage of guns is discouraged & even prevented in most situations. So at worst they might racially profile people and more easily arrest or at least intercept black people without reason which, while unfortunate & shouldn't happen either, is vastly preferable to so many shootings.
Last edited by Famassu; 07-17-2017 at 08:50 AM.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(07-17-2017, 08:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by 30yearsofhurt

Had a couple of friends from my cricket club go through AFP and NSWPS and their training was about 2 years.
The big difference is that every bullet has to be accounted for here. You fire one off you better be able to justify it cause the paperwork is "horrendous".
In Australia firing a gun is an ordinary police officers last resort.

It also helps that our justice system is designed to punish rather than protect officers accused of wrongdoing. As enforcers of the law, they're held to a higher standard, which is something the US has trouble with.
Recreat3
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:51 AM)
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What in the hell..a harmless woman dies because some cop decides to pull out his gun and shoog her whole she was talking to his partner. God damn it, shoot the cop.
HowZatOZ
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Famassu

Yeah. Potential KKK member, neo nazi, dumb ass police exist everywhere (the ex-husband of my aunt is one racist ass motherfucker of a police). The difference is that, yeah, the education is more thorough and usually emphasizes de-escalation/non-violent approach above "shoot first, never even ask questions" and usage of guns is discouraged & even prevented in most situations.

There are definitely racists in the AFP, hell in the ADF as well, but we have more stringent training and far stronger gun laws. Those two help in maintaining our forces to actually be useful and not murder-driven government paid suits.

So yeah, fuck America. One case of course but it is definitely becoming (well, already was) far more dangerous as both a citizen of the country or a tourist of the country to dare call the police. May as well just parlay with criminal for better results.
danm999
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by H2Yo

So are Americans. They commited treason against the English. So that rules out that theory.

That was different that was for FREEDOM
Jmanunknown
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:56 AM)
This whole shooting incident makes no sense. I wonder if the officer who killed this women will go to the I feared for my life bs.
commedieu
Aliens made this post
(07-17-2017, 08:57 AM)
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I hope this gains traction. Fuck American police and their garbage training. What's the point if there is no accountability? Why have training at all if it's just executing people and getting away with it?
MWS Natural
Blacks Anonymous
(07-17-2017, 08:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by DiscoJer

Unfortunately, people need to realize that any interaction with the police can result in someone being killed.

The only way to avoid getting killed by a cop is to avoid cops.

Unless your life is in grave immediate danger with no other options or chance to escape:

STOP CALLING THE POLICE.
Piggus
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy

Just sounds like America to me.

This is what police do over there.

It's literally in their training.


Maybe if the majority of the population could vote for someone who will do something about it. You know, what with the finest "democracy in the world and such.

Any day now.

Americans will surely kick up enough (or ANY) fuss for politicians to take notice and make serious reform a party platform.

Any day now.

Basically, I'm blaming Americans in general.

Wow, thank you so much for clarifying!
akira28
am I an eager baby bird?
am I a cute baby bunny?
(07-17-2017, 09:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jmanunknown

This whole shooting incident makes no sense. I wonder if the officer who killed this women will go to the I feared for my life bs.

he fucked up pretty bad. Im sure he's fearing for his life, atm.

those dreams of retirement and owning a boat are maybe going up in smoke.
Spectone
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by HowZatOZ

There are definitely racists in the AFP, hell in the ADF as well, but we have more stringent training and far stronger gun laws. Those two help in maintaining our forces to actually be useful and not murder-driven government paid suits.

The difference is in the cultural response, those people seem to be applauded in the US in Australia they are condemned.
Candescence
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:08 AM)
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What the actual fuck.

Yanks, your cops have a problem. Innocent people should not be fearing for their lives because of the bloody police.
Last edited by Candescence; 07-17-2017 at 09:11 AM.
jellies_two
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:08 AM)

Originally Posted by MWS Natural

Unless your life is in grave immediate danger with no other options or chance to escape:

STOP CALLING THE POLICE.

Isn't this what the NRA keeps saying anyway? They always say stuff like who is going to protect your family when the scary man with the gun confronts you, the cops? (With added dropping sarcasm).
PingPongvonLaserstein
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Wolf Akela

Why not punish cops who turn off body cams?

That question can apply to a seemingly endless variety of police misbehavior in the US. Law enforcement here is a poorly trained and vetted, increasingly militarized group with next to zero legal or administrative accountability. They often have no stake in the communities they "serve", they place a higher premium on loyalty than they do on competence, and nobody who counts seems particularly motivated to do anything about it.

It's all kinds of fucked up and scary, and I have no idea what the solution is.
Isaac Otherworld
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(07-17-2017, 09:09 AM)
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It's fucking disgusting. Pretty much everyone I know wouldn't call the cops under any circumstance because doing so is just putting yourself more in danger. Someone I know was physically assaulted by a stranger a few weeks ago and refused to have anyone call the police for this very reason. American police are the fucking worst. They don't protect. They don't serve. You'd think that after years of outrage over this police would have some slight internalization of some of the complaints and criticisms but on contrary it seems like they're doubling down.
KarneeKarnay
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(07-17-2017, 09:11 AM)
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Shouldn't any cop who has their body cam off at this point and experience one of these events, lose their job at the very least?

Cops should treat these cameras as a life line. That if things hit the fan, they have proof of what happened. Any Cop who switches these off, should be treated the same way as a cop who turns up without a vest, gun or badge. You wouldn't let them work and if they did you would fire them.
HowZatOZ
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by akira28

he fucked up pretty bad. Im sure he's fearing for his life, atm.

those dreams of retirement and owning a boat are maybe going up in smoke.

Inb4 he already has the boat and whores from previous innocent murde...sorry, accidents on duty.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by KarneeKarnay

Shouldn't any cop who has their body cam off at this point and experience one of these events, lose their job at the very least?

Cops should treat these cameras as a life line. That if things hit the fan, they have proof of what happened. Any Cop who switches these off, should be treated the same way as a cop who turns up without a vest, gun or badge. You wouldn't let them work and if they did you would fire them.

That would require accountability, which the entire justice system is designed to not have for police officers under any circumstance. I honestly think an officer could strangle their wife and get away with it as long as they said "I feared for my life."

Though to be honest, we have so many unjustified police killings on camera and they're still not prosecuted. Body cameras wouldn't help with shit. They're really just security theater for citizens. It doesn't actually protect you from police wrong doing or hold them accountable.
DukeSilverHaze
Junior Member
(07-17-2017, 09:15 AM)
They'll probably receive the keys to the city.
Maximo
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(07-17-2017, 09:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Broken Hope

Their police problem is a side effect of their gun problem, if anyone and everyone wasn’t potentially carrying a gun the police wouldn’t need to be armed as standard and crappy cops wouldn’t be murdering people.

It aint a gun problem its the boys club attitude the lack of training and the blatant racism infecting the police force.
HotHamBoy
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(07-17-2017, 09:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by MrKaepora

-Person needs help.

- Does what anyone in a normal country would do and calls the cops.

- Happy trigger law enforcement arrives and shoots inside the car right next to his partner killing the person who've asked for help.

And you're worried about the feelings of cheeto president.

This all situation is pathetic. Yes, it was happening before Trump and you guys don't seem bother to fix it.

Train your officers better and solve the gun problem that you have if you want to honour these kinds of stupid killings.

Yes sir, right away sir, I'll start first thing tomorrow!

Do you guys know how condescending you sound?
Last edited by HotHamBoy; 07-17-2017 at 09:20 AM.
holygeesus
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:20 AM)
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As an outsider, the lack of accountability seems to be the real issue here. If juries won't ever convict police officers, despite staggeringly overwhelming video evidence, then a new approach to trying them seems to be needed. Until there starts to be consequences then these events will only continue.
HotHamBoy
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(07-17-2017, 09:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by holygeesus

As an outsider, the lack of accountability seems to be the real issue here. If juries won't ever convict police officers, despite staggeringly overwhelming video evidence, then a new approach to trying them seems to be needed. Until there starts to be consequences then these events will only continue.

Who is going to make that happen? Me? You?
commedieu
Aliens made this post
(07-17-2017, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by HotHamBoy

Yes sir, right away sir, I'll start first thing tomorrow!

Do you guys know how condescending you sound?

Oh no, watch out! Someone is being critical of an entire failed justice system and thugs that execute people. The horror!

Why are you internalizing all of this as some sort of slight to you personally? I'm American. The outrage is justified because cops have no accountability, and the do this far too often.

It's almost as if we have people here more concerned about being insulted over the issue, than we have about supporting politicians that desire reform for these cowards. Same goes for the population that absolves them of all guilt when it comes to juries. Just can't admit it's a dire issue that needs a resolution yesterday.

Must, keep, worldview, going, at, all, costs.
Last edited by commedieu; 07-17-2017 at 09:27 AM.
HowZatOZ
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by HotHamBoy

Who is going to make that happen? Me? You?

Ah yes, lets just sweep it under the rug and it'll solve itself.
Isaac Otherworld
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(07-17-2017, 09:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by commedieu

Oh no, watch out! Someone is being critical of an entire failed justice system and thugs that execute people. The horror!

Why are you internalizing all of this as some sort of slight to you personally? I'm American. The outrage is justified because cops have no accountability, and the do this far too often.

It's almost as if we have people here more concerned about being insulted over the issue, than we have about supporting politicians that desire reform for these cowards. Same goes for the population that absolves them of all guilt when it comes to juries. Just can't admit it's a dire issue that needs a resolution yesterday.

Must, keep, worldview, going, at, all, costs.

People have been protesting police violence for years. It's been a huge national issue since Trayvon Martin, despite that case not involving an officer. And despite all the protests and after levying all our criticisms and making them clear and known, we can't get movement on this issue. I understand the justified outrage. I'm outraged and have been for years. But I understand why people are getting snappy at people who come in to say "American police suck. Why haven't you fixed that already" considering how powerless I personally feel and how things seem to be regressing despite the movement and effort to fix the system.
MrKaepora
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(07-17-2017, 09:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by HotHamBoy

Yes sir, right away sir, I'll start first thing tomorrow!

Do you guys know how condescending you sound?

Why? Everything seems fine.

Serious, if the citizens of a country don't demand change from their politicians who's going to?
Aarglefarg
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by jellies_two

Australian police have had their moments
Recently they shot Batman and harlequin having sex in a Melbourne nightclub (that was pissing them off with civil actions). Batman had a fake gun, which they were told of
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...og-investigate

Joker and Harley Quinn, yeah.

Here is a more detailed article: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/in...10-gx8lud.html

That the police were told beforehand that it was a fake gun isn't the big important thing since it's reasonable to not take that for granted. It comes down to if he was pointing it at police and refusing to put it down when he was shot, which is what police say but is disputed by witnesses and possibly security footage. In that type of situation if it is true, treating it as a real weapon is reasonable.
Verelios
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(07-17-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by HotHamBoy

Yes sir, right away sir, I'll start first thing tomorrow!

Do you guys know how condescending you sound?

He's absolutely right. There's a fundamental problem with law enforcement in this country whether you agree or not.
hirokazu
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(07-17-2017, 09:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by danm999

That was different that was for FREEDOM

America was a penal destination for British convicts too.
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(07-17-2017, 09:46 AM)
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At some point one of the officers fired a weapon, killing the woman. The officers were wearing body cameras but they were not turned on during the incident, the mayor said.


What's the fucking point anyway
commedieu
Aliens made this post
(07-17-2017, 09:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Isaac Otherworld

People have been protesting police violence for years. It's been a huge national issue since Trayvon Martin, despite that case not involving an officer. And despite all the protests and after levying all our criticisms and making them clear and known, we can't get movement on this issue. I understand the justified outrage. I'm outraged and have been for years. But I understand why people are getting snappy at people who come in to say "American police suck. Why haven't you fixed that already" considering how powerless I personally feel and how things seem to be regressing despite the movement and effort to fix the system.

This, what you just posted makes sense. And doesnt come off as a snarky response. The other posts seem defensive. That's how I took it due to lack of clarity. So my mistake there.

Just because you think you're powerless, doesn't mean that you are. people are clearly upset over yet another execution. I mean you do you, but it is a bizarre way to respond to justified rage at our country and our system that we have allowed to flourish.

I say we, but I mean white America really. They hold the purse strings and support our police system, and have all the way back when they were tasked to catch run away slaves. I vote as much as I can, but until white America as a voting block, gets miffed, none of this is going to change. We've got an ongoing number of minorities being executed, no progress is really made on that front. It's always justified by racial bias and stereotypes of "well, they smoked pot. So. Probably deserved it."

Unfortunately, it's going to take instances like this to move the needle for the people with political clout. Much like the opiate suicides/addiction issue. Our police are broken, people are outraged. Clearly they aren't indicating there is a button to press to fix this, and it's not some jab at you personally if you've exhausted your efforts. Just saying it comes off weird when, well, "we" do deserve shit talking over it.
commedieu
Aliens made this post
(07-17-2017, 09:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Isaac Otherworld

People have been protesting police violence for years. It's been a huge national issue since Trayvon Martin, despite that case not involving an officer. And despite all the protests and after levying all our criticisms and making them clear and known, we can't get movement on this issue. I understand the justified outrage. I'm outraged and have been for years. But I understand why people are getting snappy at people who come in to say "American police suck. Why haven't you fixed that already" considering how powerless I personally feel and how things seem to be regressing despite the movement and effort to fix the system.

This, what you just posted makes sense. And doesnt come off as a snarky response. The other posts seem defensive. That's how I took it due to lack of clarity. So my mistake there.

Just because you think you're powerless, doesn't mean that you are. people are clearly upset over yet another execution. I mean you do you, but it is a bizarre way to respond to justified rage at our country and our system that we have allowed to flourish. See posts you're getting back at you aren't grasping your pov. It just seems defensive.

I say we, but I mean white America really. They hold the purse strings and support our police system, and have all the way back when they were tasked to catch run away slaves. I vote as much as I can, but until white America as a voting block, gets miffed, none of this is going to change. We've got an ongoing number of minorities being executed, no progress is really made on that front. It's always justified by racial bias and stereotypes of "well, they smoked pot. So. Probably deserved it."

Unfortunately, it's going to take instances like this to move the needle for the people with political clout. Much like the opiate suicides/addiction issue. Our police are broken, people are outraged. Clearly they aren't indicating there is a button to press to fix this, and it's not some jab at you personally if you've exhausted your efforts. Just saying it comes off weird when, well, "we" do deserve shit talking over it.
miller.skippins
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:51 AM)
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WTF is wrong with US Police and their trigger happy mentality? They really attempt to open fire on anything? Whatever happens to 'rules of engagement'?

Those buggers will be court martial till their pants drop if they are in the military..

(p.s. was a military police when i am in the service.)
Agent Gibbs
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:55 AM)
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God damn America what is wrong with your cops? shoot everyone in sight? I mean what on earth happened here.......


Originally Posted by Lemonz

More info

.....WAIT WHAT?! WHAT? I just cannot comprehend this!

That is like a gang land execution!

seriously now America you need to demand your police force is trained to use firearms as a last resort now, because it seems you've become so lax in your oversight of Police they literally seem to be getting away with anything and everything

cynically it might take a white woman dying before something actually happens
Mohonky
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(07-17-2017, 09:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by 30yearsofhurt

In Australia firing a gun is an ordinary police officers last resort.


I would say in Australia the majority of our poloce force go through their career without even drawing a gun on someone much less firing one.
patapuf
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Broken Hope

Their police problem is a side effect of their gun problem, if anyone and everyone wasn’t potentially carrying a gun the police wouldn’t need to be armed as standard and crappy cops wouldn’t be murdering people.

Eh, I don't know details but there's probably a severe lack of training too. And a lack of consequences. If cops have to face jail for shooting unarmed citisens they are much less likely to shoot them.

There's also other countries with high gun ownership where the armed police don't use their firearms liberally.
kvn
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(07-17-2017, 09:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by 30yearsofhurt

In Australia firing a gun is an ordinary police officers last resort.

You mean like in most industrialized countries?
devilhawk
Member
(07-17-2017, 09:59 AM)
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So the cop in the passenger seat shot in front of the cop in the driver's seat? The hell?

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