• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Why the dislike for Chrono Cross?

Z

ZombiePlatypus

Member
Most of the negative reception I've seen seems to just stem from the camp that strictly wanted CT2. CT's great, but I played CC and I absolutely loved it as there was no baggage or expectations from a previous title.

The plethora of characters never bothered me. The core cast still has a great story, and the game's overall plot and the questions it raises are really interesting. The characters outside of the core cast just felt like extras/pokemon you collect which is fine.

Also, to this day, the game has absolutely beautiful background/scenery art, and the OST's untouchable.
 
G

GrandHarrier

Member
It was an OK game that had no business being a sequel to Chrono Trigger; It is barely connected to the first game and the only connections to it are, essentially, to shit all over everything you liked about Chrono Trigger. It actively brings down the franchise as a whole by being a sequel; Trigger would have been better off being a solo game, is a timeless classic I could replay today, but I couldn't ever be bothered to go back to Cross.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Personally, I loved CC and hold it dear to my heart. I think the story is incredibly ambitious if you get the whole thing, but the execution/story pacing wasn't done well. The characters are also a mixed bag because I liked the few central characters but many other characters are forgettable or silly. Combat wise, it's just decent. But the art direction is gorgeous, and the soundtrack is one of the best ever made.
 
T

tiebreaker

Member
Prefered Cross to Trigger.

That said, I played both when I was like 10. I'll replay both of them sometime soon, maybe I'll have a new appreciation for both games.
 
S

StarStabbedMoon

Member
To those saying it should have been a standalone game, that just wouldn't have worked. The end of the game depends on the events and characters from CT, and the player's knowledge of them, to make it meaningful even in the slightest. If these were just random characters thrown in at the end of the game it would have been pointless. The story in CC only exists because of CT.
 
L

Lunarwhale

Member
I really loved Chrono Cross when I was younger, but looking back on it now, the direction it took was strange. It cut out a lot of design choices that made Chrono Trigger such a memorable experience. Trigger was a very lean game - quick moment-to-moment gameplay, tight and memorable cast of characters, relatively simple systems, fairly exciting story tied together by a few key decision points, etc. Cross isn't. Cross has a bloated playable cast, slower battle system with a comparatively complicated magic system, and a much slower story. It's really a radically different game in terms of its design identity - I can see why somebody would like one and not the other.

I'd really like to give Cross another go someday. I love its world and general aesthetics (even if some of the character designs are a little weak). Battle track aside, the music is gorgeous.
 
S

StormBrute

Member
Chrono Cross is my favorite game of all time, but I can understand why it would disappoint some people with how much it breaks from Chrono Trigger in almost every way. It feels like an intentional antithesis at times, like with the tone in Cross being a slow, melancholy journey as opposed to Trigger's fast, fun adventure, or how much of the story in Cross is dealing with the consequences of Trigger's time travel. So I can understand fans of Trigger not being happy with that, but I thought it was a fascinating contrast.

The game does have flaws, I admit. The story does become too complicated by the end, and there's too many characters for them all to matter or be worth caring about (though I personally liked most of the designs), but I thought there were also a lot of good parts within those parts. The orphanage and other stuff with Kid in the story, plus the Dragoons and others in the cast were all great, and there's other moments too.

Beyond that, I loved the visuals and music so much, and the dreamlike kind of tone/pacing through it all. The battle system was also great and ahead of its time in ways with the refueled resources after every battle with your health and the elements. Like others have said, the element grid also allowed a lot of setup configuration and made basic spells viable throughout the whole game. There was a lot of variety in how you could play the game, and locking out different characters and bosses depending on your choices added to the feeling of having substantial, different options in the game. It really made NG+ feel like a fresh experience every time.

Also, the fast-forward/slow-motion options for NG+ are great and I love them. Best NG+ feature.
 
K

Korigama

Member
dragonzdogma said:
I actually liked it but it didn't feel very chrono trigger

The already perfect combat was replaced with a more Final fantasy like random encounter system.

The Story and overall akira toriyama design was replaced by some generic fantasy rpg setting.

Music isn't even that memorable imo.


Those are just a few reasons why I think the game was disliked.
Click to expand...
-There are no random encounters, nor is the combat anything like any given Final Fantasy.

-The setting couldn't be further from generic.

-The soundtrack is easily Mitsuda's best work.


I went from liking Chrono Cross, to disliking it, and then back again over the years. Still haven't actually played Chrono Trigger, so disappointment in how different the two are wasn't a factor for me. Playable cast likely would've benefited from being cut in half, however, and I do have gripes here and there with the story.
 
N

Novel Mike

Member
I think if it was its own game without trying to make any real relation to CT it would be a hell of a unique and interesting game and easily one of the best PS1 games.

But it is a sequel to CT. A Sequel that reveals that within 20 years of CT's ending that everyone from that era is dead. Chrono, Marle, Lucca, all dead. Magus is also still around except they did everything they could to say its not actually Magus making the character feel like an odd imitation then anything else, this was further worsened by the DS CT remake trying to retcon Magus losing his memory and becoming the character we see in CC which is complete and utter bullshit and hurts Magus as a character in CT.

CT had some darker moments but the overall tone was one of hope and happiness. CC is a much darker story with a fairly dark tone which would be fine if it wasn't a sequel but because they decided to make the games directly related to each other the darker story ends up influencing the overall outcome of the original game. I seriously can't replay CC very often because it pisses me off that the story they decided to go with was that everyone from CT was dead, and its not like it serves any real purpose to have that plot point its just trying to tie the games together but also explain why Chrono and co+ aren't apart of this story.

It's just utter garbage on that front. CC does many things exceptionally well but the attempts to tie the games together when they didn't really need to are really what people who don't remember the game fondly linger on and can't forget despite all of the generally good and unique elements the story has despite that.

That isn't the only problems with CC, as others have said way to many needless characters that end up contributing next to nothing to the story and overall plot but the system for the various characters was super interesting. I love that the first real big mission ended up having different outcomes and routes deepening on whom you decide to guide you. I loved stuff like that but as a whole it never really worked quite right.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
I used to be a big Chrono Cross defender. And then I actually played it. I loved the music and art direction. But everything else including the story is very....ehh
 
G

Gestahl

Member
My favorite part of Chrono Cross is when you're 80% through and the story is poorly told and convoluted but you think you're getting a decent grasp on it and then some shitty old man or stupid ghost shows up to say "Well actually..."
 
J

JPLC

Neo Member
Chrono Trigger may be one of my favourite games, but I LOVE Chrono Cross. I wish more games would handle sequels the way CC handled being a sequel of CT; here's the world 20 years later, and here's how the events of the previous game influenced it. Doing it in that way made the world of CT/CC feel way more real to me than just bringing the old cast back for another go for another artificial adventure. It felt like how history actually works in the real world; the gaps inbetween events are murky, and cause and effect in general can be cloudy or hard to fully understand.
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
Korigama said:
-There are no random encounters, nor is the combat anything like any given Final Fantasy.

-The setting couldn't be further from generic.

-The soundtrack is easily Mitsuda's best work.


I went from liking Chrono Cross, to disliking it, and then back again over the years. Still haven't actually played Chrono Trigger, so disappointment in how different the two are wasn't a factor for me. Playable cast likely would've benefited from being cut in half, however, and I do have gripes here and there with the story.
Click to expand...

Wow. I hadn't even seen that post. Talk about dissing a game they've never played.
 
B

BassForever

Member
Overly complicated plot that is decent on its own but terrible when compared to the game its continuing the tale for

A stupidly large cast of boring, unmemorable characters with the few interesting characters behind the games branching plot lines so you can't get them all in one run

An okay battle system that suffers from most psx era jrpg issue of being slow

The graphics and music are really the only things going for the game, and they're incredible. Chrono Cross is the perfect example of people being so awe by how good the game looked and sounded they didn't realize the game they were playing wasn't very good.
 
D

Daeoc

Member
I can see why some don't like it, but I prefer CC over CT. I'm fine with what I'd call "bonus" party members(Suikoden is one of my favorite series, though most of the 108 Stars are more useful than most of the CC cast), and I liked the connection to CT(and what it implies). I like the story, the battle system is great, and the music is amazing. I do wish Magus wasn't cut from the story, I would've liked to see that.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
It's called chrono and is nowhere near as good as trigger, and worse, feels nothing like trigger

Really, Kato should have just given it a different name and broke the links to trigger altogether.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
n0razi said:
Chop out like 80% of the worthless characters and turn Glenn into young Frog, BAM we have a winner!
Click to expand...

If I were to direct a Chrono Cross remake, the first thing I would do is that. Cut down 45 to around 15 or so, to maintain the concept of a relatively big playable cast while giving each member more dialogue lines, screen time and relevance to the plot. So that leaves:

Serge/Lynx
Kid
Harle
Leena
Radius
Karsh
Glenn
Zoah
Marcy
Viper
Fargo
Riddel
Norris
Sprigg
Mel
Grobyc

Others can be NPC really.
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
It's called chrono and is nowhere near as good as trigger, and worse, feels nothing like trigger

Really, Kato should have just given it a different name and broke the links to trigger altogether.
Click to expand...

Those links to Trigger are part of what makes the story so memorable though.

Dark_castle said:
If I were to direct a Chrono Cross remake, the first thing I would do is that. Cut down 45 to around 15 or so, to maintain the concept of a relatively big playable cast while giving each member more dialogue lines, screen time and relevance to the plot. So that leaves:

Serge/Lynx
Kid
Harle
Leena
Radius
Karsh
Glenn
Zoah
Marcy
Viper
Riddel
Norris
Sprigg
Mel
Grobyc

Others can be NPC really.
Click to expand...

You have to keep Guile. And makes his connections to Magus way more blatant.
 
M

MissCauthon

Member
Going from beautiful sprites to Chroni Cross made me puke. I remember being exited put it the cd and was like wtf are these ugly ass graphics. I was expecting sprite graphics. That was my reason.
I think i played 10 minutes and quit. I was legit mad at not seing beautiful sprites lol. Which is why i hated every ps1 3d games.
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
it could have been as distinct as it is narratively, thematically, while still throwing the fans a bone occasionally, and been more successful.

implementing more combo attacks, tightening up the character roster, adding some better explicit references to CT. making a sequel to a deeply loved game but doing it in a new way is difficult. most developers and creatives lean too heavily on pandering. CC definitely did NOT do that, but it also didn't thread the needle of respecting its predecessor, either.

nonetheless, this is a fucking awesome game. the music is unmatched, and i remember the scenarios and characters vividly. it could use a remaster, honestly.
 
TDLink

TDLink

Member
It's one of the best JRPGs ever made.

90% of the haters just are/were upset it wasn't Chrono Trigger 2.

Do only like 12 of its 45 or so characters actually have plot importance? Yeah. But that doesn't hurt the game. They are there so you can play whatever type of characters you want. Want to have a rocking guitarist? Sure. Some cool cyborg? Do it. A random cute animal creature? They have that too. Character choice doesn't hurt the game. And the characters that are actually part of the main plot are pretty good.

The soundtrack is god-tier. Mitsuda has yet to top himself (I'm kind of hopeful for Xenoblade 2 though in that regard). It creates such a perfect atmosphere which couples perfectly with the the tropical island setting, which is so unique among JRPGs while being incredibly warm and memorable.

The entire "Lynx" portion of the game is incredible as well. The story goes to some really unexpected places. Maybe it does end up leaning too heavily on CT late in the game, but the overall experience is fantastic.
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
MissCauthon said:
Going from beautiful sprites to Chroni Cross made me puke. I remember being exited put it the cd and was like wtf are these ugly ass graphics. I was expecting sprite graphics. That was my reason.
Click to expand...

This pains me. Chrono Cross has some of the most beautiful prerendered backgrounds ever made.
 
B

bionic77

Member
MissCauthon said:
Going from beautiful sprites to Chroni Cross made me puke. I remember being exited put it the cd and was like wtf are these ugly ass graphics. I was expecting sprite graphics. That was my reason.
Click to expand...
The graphics were really good for the time so I can't say it was ugly for its time.

I would agree that the art was not as good as CT. And it has definitely not aged as well. I can pop in CT anytime and I get hooked by it within the first hour.
 
R

Rymuth

Member
Besides too many characters with very little consequence to the plot (robbing the player of the chance to grow attached to them), the convoluted storyline and the obtuse battle-system...

The biggest reason (for me, personally) is that the game is so far up it's own ass. The original dream team wanted to make a simple, charming, coming-of-age story...and it worked.
Kato came in and decided to say 'FUCK! THAT'. At times, the story and themes seem to arguably hate you, the player, for liking Chrono Trigger.

It's like somebody came in, looked at a popular kid's cartoon and decided to make an extremely edgy sequel to it and then complain loudly why it wasn't as well received.
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
TDLink said:
The entire "Lynx" portion of the game is incredible as well. The story goes to some really unexpected places. Maybe it does end up leaning too heavily on CT late in the game, but the overall experience is fantastic.
Click to expand...

unexpected every time. i forget it each time i play it, it is so surprising. really brave storytelling.
 
D

dragonzdogma

Member
Korigama said:
-There are no random encounters, nor is the combat anything like any given Final Fantasy.

-The setting couldn't be further from generic.

-The soundtrack is easily Mitsuda's best work.


I went from liking Chrono Cross, to disliking it, and then back again over the years. Still haven't actually played Chrono Trigger, so disappointment in how different the two are wasn't a factor for me. Playable cast likely would've benefited from being cut in half, however, and I do have gripes here and there with the story.
Click to expand...



I remember the combat system being turn based and would switch you to a different screen instead of being seamless like chrono trigger.

I cant remember if enemies would always be on screen tho.
 
TDLink

TDLink

Member
Rymuth said:
Besides too many characters with very little consequence to the plot (robbing the player of the chance to grow attached to them), the convoluted storyline and the obtuse battle-system...

The biggest reason (for me, personally) is that the game is so far up it's own ass. The original dream team wanted to make a simple, charming, coming-of-age story...and it worked.
Kato came in and decided to say 'FUCK! THAT'. At times, the story and themes seem to arguably hate you, the player, for liking Chrono Trigger.

It's like somebody came in, looked at a popular kid's cartoon and decided to make an extremely edgy sequel to it and then complain loudly why it wasn't as well received.
Click to expand...

Coming of age stories are a dime a dozen in JRPGs. I am glad they tried something completely different and relatively unique rather than what the vast majority of other JRPGs do.

And the game absolutely -was- well received at the time, even if some forum histories don't reflect that.

dragonzdogma said:
I remember the combat system being turn based and would switch you to a different screen instead of being seamless like chrono trigger.

I cant remember if enemies would always be on screen tho.
Click to expand...

Yes. The enemies are visible on screen. You can avoid battles by not running into them.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Rymuth said:
Besides too many characters with very little consequence to the plot (robbing the player of the chance to grow attached to them), the convoluted storyline and the obtuse battle-system...

The biggest reason (for me, personally) is that the game is so far up it's own ass. The original dream team wanted to make a simple, charming, coming-of-age story...and it worked.
Kato came in and decided to say 'FUCK! THAT'. At times, the story and themes seem to arguably hate you, the player, for liking Chrono Trigger.

It's like somebody came in, looked at a popular kid's cartoon and decided to make an extremely edgy sequel to it and then complain loudly why it wasn't as well received.
Click to expand...

YrPvKU6.gif
 
G

GrandHarrier

Member
Rymuth said:
The biggest reason (for me, personally) is that the game is so far up it's own ass. The original dream team wanted to make a simple, charming, coming-of-age story...and it worked.
Kato came in and decided to say 'FUCK! THAT'. At times, the story and themes seem to arguably hate you, the player, for liking Chrono Trigger.

It's like somebody came in, looked at a popular kid's cartoon and decided to make an extremely edgy sequel to it and then complain loudly why it wasn't as well received.
Click to expand...

This sums it up perfectly. 100% agree on all points.
 
T

TheEndOfItAll

Neo Member
It was a completely different game with the Chrono Trigger label and some common names. I never felt like it was a true sequel. Characters were interesting enough, but it all took a turn for me when
Serge and Lynx swapped bodies.
.
 
B

bionic77

Member
Rymuth said:
Besides too many characters with very little consequence to the plot (robbing the player of the chance to grow attached to them), the convoluted storyline and the obtuse battle-system...

The biggest reason (for me, personally) is that the game is so far up it's own ass. The original dream team wanted to make a simple, charming, coming-of-age story...and it worked.
Kato came in and decided to say 'FUCK! THAT'. At times, the story and themes seem to arguably hate you, the player, for liking Chrono Trigger.

It's like somebody came in, looked at a popular kid's cartoon and decided to make an extremely edgy sequel to it and then complain loudly why it wasn't as well received.
Click to expand...

I do applaud them for taking a chance. They could have just done a by the numbers sequel.

But for me the story didn't work. I didn't really like the characters and the story was pretty convoluted with dragons, a split in time, etc.
 
rodrigolfp

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
dragonzdogma said:
I remember the combat system being turn based and would switch you to a different screen instead of being seamless like chrono trigger.

I cant remember if enemies would always be on screen tho.
Click to expand...

this is the most offensive difference. stop this slow transition and let me fight on the same screen like CT. this is not Final Fantasy...
 
F

Fug Slanderson

Member
I've owned it since launch, but just got around to playing it last Summer. I made it 5 hours in before quitting from boredom. Maybe it gets better, but I wasn't compelled to find out.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
rodrigolfp said:
this is the most offensive difference. stop this slow transition and let me fight on the same screen like CT. this is not Final Fantasy...
Click to expand...

Hardware limitation. It's way easier to make seamless battle transitions with on-screen enemies with complete static 2D background and sprites with minimal visual effects and simpler animations to worry about.
 
M

Meowster

Member
It is one of my favorite games. I just love everything about the aesthetic of the game, from the vibrant colors, to the unique character design, to the phantasmagorical world, to the exceptional soundtrack. The team really pushed the PS1 to it's limits with this one. I'm glad I took a chance on it, I almost didn't because I'd seen so much negativity towards it on GAF and other websites. But one of my other all-time favorite games is Final Fantasy VIII, another divisive one, so maybe it is just my taste.
 
N

Ninjimbo

Member
Beats me. CC is a better game in every respect. People will spout some bs like it wasn't a proper sequel or something, but whatever. Nostalgia is the only reason CT is so revered.
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
GrandHarrier said:
It was an OK game that had no business being a sequel to Chrono Trigger; It is barely connected to the first game and the only connections to it are, essentially, to shit all over everything you liked about Chrono Trigger. It actively brings down the franchise as a whole by being a sequel; Trigger would have been better off being a solo game, is a timeless classic I could replay today, but I couldn't ever be bothered to go back to Cross.
Click to expand...

Yup. Add in the convoluted story with nothing of interest to say and reams of characters who get less development than the third stringers in a Suikoden game and you've got big problems. I found Cross to be completely unengaging and unmemorable aside from the music.

Ninjimbo said:
Beats me. CC is a better game in every respect. People will spout some bs like it wasn't a proper sequel or something, but whatever. Nostalgia is the only reason CT is so revered.
Click to expand...

Dismissing CT's rep as nostalgia is ridiculous.
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Chrono Trigger was (and still is) possibly the greatest JRPG of all time.

Chrono Cross was sold to me as essentially "Chrono Trigger 2".

My first impression of the game was that it was jawdroppingly beautiful. But eventually I couldn't keep suppressing the question that was gnawing at the back of my mind for quite a long time "What part of any of this makes it a Chrono game?"

I gave up and allowed someone to spoil the plot for me. Chrono Cross' connection to Chrono Trigger is that Chrono Cross eventually gets around to making a statement of "Fuck Chrono Trigger. And fuck you for enjoying what may be one of the greatest JRPGs of all time."

Chrono Cross should've done a much better job of being Chrono Trigger 2, or it should've put a lot more distance between itself and Chrono Trigger.
 
E

emag

Member
TDLink said:
It's one of the best JRPGs ever made.

90% of the haters just are/were upset it wasn't Chrono Trigger 2.
Click to expand...

ZombiePlatypus said:
Most of the negative reception I've seen seems to just stem from the camp that strictly wanted CT2. CT's great, but I played CC and I absolutely loved it as there was no baggage or expectations from a previous title.
Click to expand...

As pointed out multiple times in this thread, it's not that CT fans just wanted CT2. Cross goes out of its way to shit on every character/plot thread from CT that it touches upon. Oh, Chrono & co. went through an epic journey with tremendous sacrifices to save the world from Lavos? Well, 15 minutes after that game's happy ending, the garbage-tier mooks sweep in and murder all the present day cast and their families, while Lavos is revived as a fusion with Schala and Robo turns evil and exterminates humanity, despite spending centuries as a kind, selfless hero in CT. Oh, and the whole Magus arc with him understanding what happened to Zeal and searching for Schala? Now there's Guile, who's blatantly Magus, but entirely stripped of all connection to Schala/Zeal/everyone and instead a hollow husk of a character.

Imagine if The Last of Us 2 started off with Care Bears descending from the clouds and the infected dissolving into rainbows of Skittles, followed by Joel uppercutting Ellie literally into the sun and rocking out with Tess and the Fireflies. Maybe the game would have some great elements, but it would still be reviled as an absolute mockery of TLoU.

CC would have been a much better game -- for both CT fans and not -- if it didn't have anything to do with CT at all. It still has the problem of having too many poorly defined characters, of course, but the positives would outweigh the negatives.
 
W

Wadiwasi

Banned
I just didn't like anything about it. The combat system, level design, the world all felt bad to me. I don't really have any other way to put it.

Loved Chrono Trigger, but Cross just wasn't for me
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Chrono Cross was remastered because the devs feared the classic JRPG becoming "unplayable"
News
38
3K
TheInfamousKira replied
Lttp: Ori and the Will of the Wisps
LTTP
14
527
AngelMuffin replied
What do you think about character creators?
2
63
2K
El Muerto replied
Travel games (open world / sandbox) - Anyone else lost their patience for long sections of driving / riding / flying?
31
1K
nikos replied
Have you ever played what you genuinely considered to be a “good” game on Mobile?
2 3 4
173
5K
MagnetoWasRight replied
Top Bottom