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Does Final Fantasy V have the weakest story of the mainline games of the franchise?

W

Weltall Zero

Member
PshycoNinja said:
Before you started to insult me you might've wanted to actually read my comment. I am no fan of XIII or its story. But I think insinuating it is "the absolute worst" when we have III is funny.
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You may think whatever you want; but thinking that others that disagree with your (terrible) opinion "haven't played FF games before X" is not just "funny", it's downright hilarious.

Also I "insulted" you because I said you have bad taste? After your suggestion that people disagreeing with you must be ignorant and not actually have played the games? Are you for fucking real?

PshycoNinja said:
Say what you will about the games during the PSX era and beyond but at least they attempted to tell stories.
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I wholeheartedly agree: modern FF game "attempted" to tell stories. Older FF games, on the other hand, succeeded. If you think a complex story is inherently better, you must love Kingdom Hearts.
 
S

Strings

Member
AuthenticM said:
It sure seems that way to me. Uninteresting characters (except for Gilgamesh), super bland protagonist, mediocre villain and story.
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Remove mention of Gilgamesh, and this is basically how I'd describe XV.

Anyway, I think XIII and XV are significantly weaker than V and I, because the story in the former feels like someone trying pretty hard but falling flat on their face, while the story in the latter is more just a general framework (and that's less offensive to me).
 
M

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
I, XIII, and XV all exist, at the very least. 1 doesn't really have a "bad" story so much as it barely has one at all (which is pretty much the definition of a "weak" story). XIII's story is just awful all around, and XV's story, which might have been pretty cool, is executed horrendously.

V's story may be pretty bare bones and to the point, but it is also very charming, and it is executed well for what it is.
 
B

Berordn

Member
Toth said:
Hmmm I think FF V has a ton of charm and Galuf is great but yes, the story is a bit mundane compared to the more epic titles between it (and calling FFIV trope is unfair since the game had one of the most robust storylines when it as released in 1991).
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FFIV might've been revolutionary for the scope of the story at the time, but that doesn't mean it was executed well. Characters have meaningful development immediately stripped away, the revolving door of death, the outright absurdity of some of the major plot devices... FFV avoids a lot of that by simply being lighter in tone and featuring fewer characters but giving each stronger development. The characters in IV were generally flat tropes.

I always felt FFV did more with the simpler story than IV did with the hamfisted one.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
5 is slightly better than 15, but 3 is probably the weakest, especially the NES original.

People saying X had the worst are being absolutely ridiculous.
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Weltall Zero said:
I wholeheartedly agree: modern FF game "attempted" to tell stories. Older FF games, on the other hand, succeeded. If you think a complex story is inherently better, you must love Kingdom Hearts.
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This about sums it up, really.

Comparing the story in a game like FFV to FFVI and latter games in the series is meaningless, it's like saying Mario Galaxy has a shitty story compared to Xenoblade. FFV didn't make its story one of its main appeals, so its approach is simplistic but it works.

At the same time a simplistic story isn't inherently worse than a "bigger one". I find V's story far, FAR better than IV's for example. Sure it's far more simple, but it's well done, whereas IV was ambitious for its time but its story is hilariously bad 90% of the time.

A story being bad doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable, also. It's fine to like IV, I do it myself.
 
K

Keinning

Member
V is great. being light on story and not taking itself seriously is what makes it so charming to me. IV felt like a cheap mexican soap opera in comparison - so dramatic, so full of itself, so forced. VI knew how to dose the good and the bad from IV and V so it wins as a better story for me in the snes era, but V is still my favourite game overall

i don`t think its fair to compare modern to classic FF stories. things are different in how stories are told today. but by no means FFV is close to the worst ones
 
P

pantsmith

Member
Blegh. There are some lame answers in this thread that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I, II, & III all have way more barebones stories than V does. V also has a campiness and heart that makes up for its lack of complexity.

Plus I dont know how you could look at something like the Galuf scene and call V a poor story. Its dope!

Khrno said:
OP you missed X, so FFXV
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Not to single you out, since this is hardly the only anti-X post in here, but X has one of the cooler stories in the Final Fantasy series.

Thematically its all about the succession of generations, living the life your parents always wish they had lived, and a not-so-subtle condemnation of ritual for the sake of continued ritual.

People let their distaste for belts and Tidus cloud their judgement :/
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
pantsmith said:
Blegh. There are some lame answers in this thread that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I, II, & III all have way more barebones stories than V does. V also has a campiness and heart that makes up for its lack of complexity.

Plus I dont know how you could look at something like the Galuf scene and call V a poor story. Its dope!
Click to expand...

Some think less story = worse. When in reality the bigger the scope, the harder is to deliver. V's was simple and effective, so it's quite good compared to others in the series, IMO.
 
N

Nottle

Member
Final Fantasy V has Gilgamesh which is a big plus. It's the series in pure Miyazaki mode.

1 and 3 have much worse stories because the characters practically don't exist, and 2 isn't that great either though it does have characters.

5 is a gameplay first game, but I still enjoy it's really dumb story.
 
U

UnnecessaryTodd

Member
I think V's is a fairly average story but I wouldn't call it bad. XIII and XV's implementation of their story was downright terrible (and personally even after doing the research I still think they are incredibly weak, XIII especially) I think VIII's had a lot of issues as well and is definitely the silliest of all the plots. So for me it comes down to how the gameplay reinforces/contradicts the plot to really determine which I think is the poorest.

I see a lot of people ragging on X and I would've agreed a few years ago but when I replayed it recently I got a whole new respect for it as a story. It's a very different kind of story to be sure. The main problem is Tidus as a protagonist is just a really bad fit (at least Vaan is irrelevant in XII, Tidus rants and raves and makes it all about him when it really should've been Yuna's story from the start)

But when you look at how the story is complimented and reinforced by the gameplay it shines. They work in tandem. It's a big part of why X's linearity is acceptable and works whereas XIII's linearity is a bit of a slap in the face. The plot of X is you are on a journey from point X to point Y with several stops in between. That is the quest you are on. You aren't explorers, you aren't searching for an answer to stop a big bad. You know an answer and you are heading straight for it and protecting the person who can make it happen. When you finish your journey and decide "Fuck it, we're going to find another way" is when the game opens up and allows you to explore with the airship. It's not necessary but it makes sense contextually for it to be the right point in the game to open things up. And at the same time it's not immersion breaking that you're goofing off with this sense of urgency since Sin has existed for generations and you've only just now decided to try another way. You've calmed Sin with the hymn and you are buying time while you train and search for any way to become stronger. You defeat Omega Weapon, you find the secret aeons, you collect the celestial weapons etc. Or you don't. It's up to you how far you want to go to prepare.

XIII has none of this context to explain any of its design decisions. You are fugitives and you should be looking for any way to escape, it should feel frantic and tense. Instead you get these long drawn out corridors with no exploration at all. You're running but not from anything. You're not in danger, not really. You get to the end of the area, fight your set piece boss and move on after some more cutscenes when often nothing much has changed. The game "opens up" towards the end but it's just a glorified field full of "side quests" which are really poor excuses for side quests. The enemy are so ill-defined and the dangers so obtuse and vague that you really don't have any way to gauge how you should feel and the character's reactions are so disparate that it's hard to feel like you're accomplishing anything apart from "well, factually the story has progressed". But when your characters are talking about being literally forced by a godlike entity to grind levels or that your plan is to "do nothing" is just poor poor storytelling. The gameplay is at complete odds with the story.

So XIII is my vote.
 
T

TrounceX

Member
Arkeband said:
People saying X had the worst are being absolutely ridiculous.
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Came here to say this.

I can't even fathom how anyone could think X has the weakest story in the series. Did they even play any of the other games? How about XII where the story absolutely falls apart in the second half for well documented development reasons. Or XIII with all it's jargon and logical inconsistencies. Or XV where the entire story isn't even contained within the game. Not to mention many of the early FF's had very unambitious stories to be generous about it.

FFX is a straightforward, well executed tragic love story with a properly satisfying ending that is not predictable. No plot holes, no convoluted storylines, no ridiculous plot twists that make no sense (looking at you FFVIII...). I
 
L

Lynx_7

Member
pantsmith said:
Blegh. There are some lame answers in this thread that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I, II, & III all have way more barebones stories than V does. V also has a campiness and heart that makes up for its lack of complexity.

Plus I dont know how you could look at something like the Galuf scene and call V a poor story. Its dope!
Click to expand...

Gilgamesh
also has a great moment towards the end too, and overall your main party members are fleshed out with character interactions and some background story. It's all fairly well executed.

Also, Exdeath always gets the short end of the stick in these discussions. Maybe he's boring in the other translations, I wouldn't know, but in the GBA localization he's kind of a lovable ham. The guy fights a turtle!
 
S

StoneFox

Member
FFV is my second favorite FF game for many reasons, but one of them IS the simple story. Ever since FFI, the stories were convoluted messes (even FFI had time travel and sci-fi) but FFV was the most succinct and easy to follow story until they went off the cliff again. Simple doesn't make it bad, it's a type of charm that can be enjoyed in its own way.

FFV made me laugh so much, I wish Square Enix would do straight comedies again. You'll never see a fully platonic party of one dude with a bunch of women ever again (at least from Square Enix I feel). Every game nowadays feels the need to include a love interest side plot and it was really refreshing that V lacked that.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
I really feel like XV takes that cake for me.

Not only is the content shallow and poorly told, but the cardboard cutout characters do absolutely nothing but stay two-dimensional the whole way through. When the "big bad" finally reveals his plan, there's no actual reason to even give a shit, so everything just ends up feeling like a huge waste of time. Some of the story points are told in loading screens (when they're as long as they are in this game, I went to the bathroom or got a drink), and some of the story is told on pieces of paper on the ground. Then add in the fact that nearly every character had next to no exposition, no real buildup to even give a reason to care about them or their "bonds", and the side characters that have zero relevance throughout the story but were advertised as main characters, and you just have a pile a trash.

Literally everything sounds good in theory even when it's story is poorly told. But if the story is poorly told, you don't focus on the things that don't exist when trying to say something is good. If it's not good it's not good. A theory of what it could've been, or your head-cannon don't magically change what the end result was.

It also doesn't help that the game itself requires extra view materials that have to be viewed outside of the game, making the actual game itself feel even more shallow in story-content than it already is. It just feels like a bunch of concepts that nobody knew what to do with, so they just did the bare minimum and focused on giving the player fetch quests with no story/world significance to think that that were playing some grand adventure, when in reality it's one of the most vapid experiences i've played in all of gaming.

V on the other hand is simple, but it's still great because it clearly explains itself and its reasons as to why you should care about it at all (not to mention it's fun to play!).
 
N

Nottle

Member
I'm about to do reviews on the FF games and I've thought about the fact that every Final Fantasy game exists on a Scale bewtween Star Wars and Miyazaki. V is very Miyazaki. Thinking about V It's sort of a less cynical version of FFVII's themes.

Both games are stories about environmentalism and passing on the world to the future.
Galuf and Aeris both sacrifice themselves in order to help the people they care about.
your enemy in V is just a tree monster. The world has been split into 2 and humans constantly misuse the crystals and fuck things up.
 
P

PshycoNinja

Member
Weltall Zero said:
You may think whatever you want; but thinking that others that disagree with your (terrible) opinion "haven't played FF games before X" is not just "funny", it's downright hilarious.

Also I "insulted" you because I said you have bad taste? After your suggestion that people disagreeing with you must be ignorant and not actually have played the games? Are you for fucking real?
Click to expand...

Seriously? You just sound like you want someone to just take your anger out on. I don't mind if that's how you do it but don't mischaracterize what I say. I said it "feels" like people forget the older games and because of how fresh the newer games are they are likely to pick on them. But sure, keep attacking me. I've not called anyone ignorant or the like. I haven't pointed anyone out and insulted them like you have.

I wholeheartedly agree: modern FF game "attempted" to tell stories. Older FF games, on the other hand, succeeded. If you think a complex story is inherently better, you must love Kingdom Hearts.
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You can keep twisting my words all you want. I never said a more complex story is better. XII isn't a complex story. Neither is XV. XIII attempts to be complex. So does X. Each game tells their stories to various effects. Just because a story is simple doesn't make it great either as FFIII has proven.
 
W

Weltall Zero

Member
PshycoNinja said:
Seriously? You just sound like you want someone to just take your anger out on. I don't mind if that's how you do it but don't mischaracterize what I say. I said it "feels" like people forget the older games and because of how fresh the newer games are they are likely to pick on them.
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No you damn well didn't. Here's what you originally said (emphasis mine above and below):

PshycoNinja said:
I feel like anyone who says XIII or XV haven't played any FF games before X. As much as I didn't like XIII or its story at least it tries to be interesting.
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Not "have forgotten": "haven't played": I'm not mischaracterizing anything, ir's you who is trying to rewrite (post) history. You accused everyone disagreeing with you of not having actually played the games. At least own that.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
A basic and generic story is better than whatever was happening in 13, and probably 15's as well. I also prefer it over 3's and 10's, and probably other games in the series I haven't played yet (2's doesn't sound terribly compelling to me).
 
R

RRockman

Banned
FF 5 was from a time where the actual gameplay had more emphasis than the story. So while it is the weakest in complexity, it isn't overwrought like modern RPGS and it gets the job done.


But of course, weakest in complexity doesn't mean bad persay. I promise you I enjoyed reading about 5 way more than reading about all of FFXIII's games.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I am ALL about good stories in games, and I recognize that V's is pretty minimal compared to other FFs, but I think it's inoffensive at worst. I actually really enjoyed it for its lighthearted nature and super-focus on the crystals as a gameplay and story element. It's straightforward, typical fantasy fare, but is that really bad? I don't think so. I loved Faris, Galuf, and Bartz (in that order) and it's way better than the XIII series (which I also enjoyed to an extent) and the first three games.

V's is probably more enjoyable then XII's to me, as well. Wait, hear me out, put those pitchforks down. XII has a fantastic setup and an extraordinarily strong first act or so, but the pacing goes so downhill in the latter part of the game that literally half of the game's areas/zones end up being monster hunting/questing grounds or paths from point A -> B with little to no plot relevance. XII is a game that is not set up to be light on story like that, so it stands out a lot more. When it finally picks back up again, it ends too quickly. V is similarly light on story, but the tone is set from the beginning and there's never any dissonance with its pacing. As a complete package, it completed what it set out to do a lot better, and a large part of that is because it was less ambitious and relatively simple.

I still like XII, a whole lot, actually. But it's better to aim for a lower target and get a bullseye than aim high and hit the edge. IMO.
 
X

Xero

Member
SilentSoldier said:
FFV and its job system are the reason why its one of my favorites in the series. If we're talking legitimately bad stories in FF games, we've got 8, and 10 for that.
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the 2 final fantasy's that led to my decision to stop bothering with the games as they were going in a direction i loathed. so for that alone i appreciate them.
 
W

Weltall Zero

Member
Opa-Pa said:
This about sums it up, really.

Comparing the story in a game like FFV to FFVI and latter games in the series is meaningless, it's like saying Mario Galaxy has a shitty story compared to Xenoblade. FFV didn't make its story one of its main appeals, so its approach is simplistic but it works.

At the same time a simplistic story isn't inherently worse than a "bigger one". I find V's story far, FAR better than IV's for example. Sure it's far more simple, but it's well done, whereas IV was ambitious for its time but its story is hilariously bad 90% of the time.

A story being bad doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable, also. It's fine to like IV, I do it myself.
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I wouldn't say IV is much simpler than V; it's quite straightforward. Hell, it would be my go-to example of "FF stories don't have to be complex to be enjoyable". IV and V are quite similar, it's VI where Square clearly started pushing for more (more mature themes, for one).

Still, I fully agree than a simple story is fine. This is especially true if this matches the exposition: i.e. don't pad out a simple story as 20 hours of cutscenes. Believing complex stories are inherently better is such a teenager thing to do (and unfortunately I did it myself back then too; I loved Chrono Trigger but considered it inferior to FFVI in part because of its simpler story); it's one of those cringey "trying to be grown up and liking grown up stuff" that fortunately we also grow out of eventually.

Xero said:
the 2 final fantasy's that led to my decision to stop bothering with the games as they were going in a direction i loathed. so for that alone i appreciate them.
Click to expand...

God, I hear you. FFVIII singlehandedly destroyed my veneration for Square.
 
P

PshycoNinja

Member
Weltall Zero said:
No you damn well didn't. Here's what you originally said (emphasis mine above and below):

Not "have forgotten": "haven't played": I'm not mischaracterizing anything, ir's you who is trying to rewrite (post) history. You accused everyone disagreeing with you of not having actually played the games. At least own that.
Click to expand...

You are highlighting and emphasizing the later of that sentence and not the former. The message there is what I followed up with, I feel people forget the older titles and pick on the newer ones due to recency bias. And I feel they don't give the newer games a fair shake. If you feel what I said was an insult to everyone here then I apologize, even though that is not the intent. As I keep repeating.

Honestly, I really don't like XIII and don't want to be continually insulted by you defending a game I don't even like. You are more than free to continue screaming at me.
 
N

notaskwid

Member
True Fire said:
Final Fantasy IV also had a great story. It's a classic medieval story of redemption that eventually turns into a sci-fi epic with spaceships and aliens. How can you hate on that?

I'd honestly say that the weakest story belongs to X. It was the first clusterfuck story in the franchise, and it led the franchise down a dark road it hasn't recovered from yet.
Click to expand...
That'd be 8.
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
V plot is dumb but inoffensive. The pre PSX era FF have dumb plot but they don't shove it in your face. It's kind of just there but the gameplay is still the main attraction. Especially with V and its amazing job system.

As for the very worst FF plot you have better contender than V with VIII, X, and the XIII series.

The plot in VIII is so convoluted and nonsensical that some insane fans came up with the Squall is dead theory to explain the story. Let's defeat the time traveling witch by doing exactly what she wanted to do in the first place. Amazing plot twist.

In X you don't really exists, religion is a lie for the 34325th time and one of your party member is already dead.

In XIII you have anime tropes and boring long cutscenes filled with said tropes and Lightning. She has a different personality in each of the three games for some reason. Don't expect to understand the plot at all if you don't read the game's lexicon. Religion is still a lie for 432425th time. To defeat the bad guy at the end of XIII you do exactly what he wants and it somehow makes sense again.
 
H

HerroRygar

Member
Man I'm surprised with the X hate. I liked it, but then again I believe XIII is basically the diarrhea-laden dumpster fire that nearly destroyed the franchise and ascribe every negative trend to that series.

X was fine; Tidus being whatever he was wasn't a great twist, but the fish out of water story up to that point was phenomenal.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
V isn’t bad, it’s just kind of pro forma. There are plenty of actively bad Final Fantasy stories, XIII stands prominent.

The story in V has the decency to get out the way of what the game actually wants to be about, XIII’s story is actually a hinderance to getting to the parts of it that are good.
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
Most of the FF titles have great stories even if the writing is weak. I would say V is near the bottom of story in the series, but it is still a fun tale. Just like I or III which I consider about as low on the story totem pole of FF.

The games from VI-X have the best stories, though XII probably has the best writing, the story just falters towards the end.
 
SilverArrow20XX

SilverArrow20XX

Walks in the Light of the Crystal
FFX had a good story. Some people hate the characters for whatever reason. The story's completely coherent and even the more complex stuff is all explained in game if you actually listen to Maechen and pay attention.
 
D

Dr Thor

Neo Member
True Fire said:
I'd honestly say that the weakest story belongs to X. It was the first clusterfuck story in the franchise, and it led the franchise down a dark road it hasn't recovered from yet.
Click to expand...

How the hell is FFX a 'clusterfuck'? It's one of the few games in the series with a fully coherent, properly explained story. Every character gets their moments to shine, every story beat builds on the previous, there's no last-third-falling-apart stuff like other FFs. It may not be to your taste but it's an extremely well-told story by FF standards.

TrounceX said:
Came here to say this.

I can't even fathom how anyone could think X has the weakest story in the series. Did they even play any of the other games? How about XII where the story absolutely falls apart in the second half for well documented development reasons. Or XIII with all it's jargon and logical inconsistencies. Or XV where the entire story isn't even contained within the game. Not to mention many of the early FF's had very unambitious stories to be generous about it.

FFX is a straightforward, well executed tragic love story with a properly satisfying ending that is not predictable. No plot holes, no convoluted storylines, no ridiculous plot twists that make no sense (looking at you FFVIII...). I
Click to expand...

Yeah seconding this, basically :) I'm guessing people are mixing up 'I personally didn't like the story' with 'the story is objectively bad'.

To add my own opinion to this mess -- I'd personally vote for XV, since not including major story beats in the game at all and putting some others as loading-screen text is just unforgiveable to me. Some people here seem to love the main characters, and that's fine, but personally I found their banter inane and fairly grating after awhile. The whole journey ended up feeling disjointed and aimless -- a stark contrast to X, which for reasons already stated is one of the best FFs in this regard IMO.
 
H

hamchan

Member
It's definitely XV now but for a long while it was V.

Though there's other things to love about V which makes up for it I guess. That job system.
 
linko9

linko9

Member
I love the story in FFV, it's my favorite of any FF. It's not obtrusive, but they focus on only ~5 characters, which means they all have some sort of significance, and can be fleshed out to some extent, unlike later games with way too many playable characters. The fact that Exdeath is a tree is a great/hilarious twist, the whole two worlds merging thing is neat, the connections with the 4 warriors of the last generation, it's all good stuff. Strikes a great balance between the barebones stories of 1 and 3, and the overly complicated and poorly thought out stories seen in 7, 8, etc. Galuf's death still gets me right in the cockles.
 
D

duckroll

Member
FFV had the Boco love story, the Faris character arc, the Hiryu/Phoenix side quest, and Syldra. It has more honest emotions and side quests at the end which tie in to actual character arcs from the entire game, than most FF stories. I find the story in FFV far more natural and interesting than the melodramatic mess of FFIV. And there's much more actual story and setting than 1 and 3.
 
T

TokiDoki

Member
Dr Thor said:
How the hell is FFX a 'clusterfuck'? It's one of the few games in the series with a fully coherent, properly explained story. Every character gets their moments to shine, every story beat builds on the previous, there's no last-third-falling-apart stuff like other FFs. It may not be to your taste but it's an extremely well-told story by FF standards.
Click to expand...

Fully agreed , FFX's story is superb . Now FFXV , that is a story beyond any saving and easily the worst .
 
Z

zashga

Member
FF5 has a simple story, but not a bad one. FF3 has a simple and bad story. FF13 has a ludicrously overwrought bad story. I'd take FF5's story over either of those in a heartbeat.

I don't think much of the stories in FF1, 2, or 8 either, and I haven't played 15 yet. FF5's story might actually make the top half of the series if we're counting!
 
D

duckroll

Member
zashga said:
FF5 has a simple story, but not a bad one. FF3 has a simple and bad story. FF13 has a ludicrously overwrought bad story. I'd take FF5's story over either of those in a heartbeat.

I don't think much of the stories in FF1, 2, or 8 either, and I haven't played 15 yet. FF5's story might actually make the top half of the series if we're counting!
Click to expand...

I think 2 has a pretty good story held back by how obtuse and frustrating the actual gameplay can be. A proper remake would result in a game which can really appeal to those who like FFT and FFXII.
 
linko9

linko9

Member
duckroll said:
I think 2 has a pretty good story held back by how obtuse and frustrating the actual gameplay can be. A proper remake would result in a game which can really appeal to those who like FFT and FFXII.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought 2's story was really impressive for it's time, especially considering the two games that flanked it. I was legitimately impressed. Everything else about the game was a huge letdown unfortunately.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
V was inoffensive but unmemorable.

I don't even remember much about certain characters like Krile.
 
J

jb1234

Member
I've played through V several times and I honestly can't remember a single notable thing about its characters (aside from one of them dying). Its story is just as forgettable. But it's fine because while they're unmemorable, at least neither are actively offensive like XIII and XV.
 
H

Hibiki Kurosawa

Member
Nope, the characters are better than a lot of the other Final Fantasys and that alone makes it a better story. Characters make a story and when X, XIII, and XV exist or even the first three FFs because they weren't really designed to have specified characters, then V is definitely not the worst story in the franchise.
 
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