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Instro
Member
(10-18-2017, 04:48 PM)
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It's amazing how enabled this guy was. Years of abuse, yet no one really did anything. Has MSU faced any repercussions over what this guy was doing?
SomewhatGroovy
Member
(10-18-2017, 04:57 PM)
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The worst fucking news to read this morning.
the_prime_mover
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:00 PM)
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I am grateful for her courage in making her suffering public, but horrified at how we as a society are so willfully blind to these abuses to our children. As a relatively new father, I am very apprehensive about the world my daughter will face and what support systems she will have access to when myself and my wife are not immediately available. I have to assume that many of those who are abused do have people that care for them deeply, and yet - when things like this happen the perpetrators generally work so hard to shut the victim up and keep their acts hidden while society seems more than willing to ignore the systems that allow for these abuses to take place.

I agree that we need to make some major changes to ensure that our children are not left to suffer these abuses, and then shamed into keeping them quiet. However, I would argue that her first point for change should be the last step we take towards stopping these crimes from happening.

I am afraid that we live in a society where we are all to willing to abrogate responsibility and so we are comfortable with turning a blind eye when victims are not forthcoming with information about the abuses they have endured. The victim should never be required to be the strongest defense against injustice. We as a society should be working diligently to ensure that these types of situations can't happen and that support systems are robust and inclusive.

It seems ridiculous to expect victims to throw away everything in order to expose their wounds. And we have to understand that this is often what we are asking of them. None of these people chose to be victims, but were victimized because their abusers were able to use their positions of power against the victims. This means that the victim was generally powerless before the abuse, and then more than powerless after the abuse. It seems reasonable to assume that the systems in place are imperfect and allow for rampant abuse, and that the people in power are able and perhaps inclined to perpetrate abuse. Perhaps that puts the burden of proof on those in power, but it seems far more likely that people with power will abuse and conceal than people without power will lie about being abused.
SolidSnakex
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Linkura

Yup, it's pretty much another Hollywood and it's been known for a long time.

Gymnastic may actually be worse. I know over the past year ESPN has done a number of articles about just how bad it is

At least 368 gymnasts throughout the United States have alleged being the victim of some form of sexual abuse over the past 20 years, according to police files and court cases obtained throughout the nine-month investigation. A number of the victims were children, and almost all of them were girls, according to the Indianapolis Star.

More than 100 coaches, gym owners and other adults connected to the sport have been accused of abuse.

http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnast...abuse-gymnasts

A former member of the United States women's gymnastics team filed a civil lawsuit Thursday against Dr. Larry Nassar in California Superior Court, claiming the long-time team doctor for USA Gymnastics sexually assaulted her during medical exams and that the legendary former coaches, Bela and Marta Karolyi, failed to protect her and engaged in their own pattern of physical and emotional abuse. The suit also claims that top USA Gymnastics officials had "wide-ranging knowledge" of the abuse, but for years "concealed and ignored" it, enabling both Nassar and the Karolyis.

The lawsuit also alleges that Bela and Marta Karolyi "turned a blind-eye to Nassar's sexual abuse of children at the ranch" and "instituted a regime of intimidation and fear at the ranch for the minor children under their custody."

The lawsuit further accuses Bela and Marta Karolyi of:

Striking the gymnasts, scratching them until they bled and encouraging parents to hit their children.

Depriving gymnasts of food and water and searching the gymnasts' rooms to find and confiscate hidden food.

Screaming obscenities at the gymnasts; telling them that they were fat; and requiring them to strip to their underwear so that their physical appearance could be judged in front of their peers.

The lawsuit alleges the Karolyis allowed Nassar to "have unfettered and secluded access to minor children, including the Plaintiff, in the children's living and sleeping quarters," a violation of USA Gymnastics' own policies.

"Nassar would pre-sexually groom these minor children into believing that he was their friend and confidant," the lawsuit alleges, in contrast to "the oppressive and abusive treatment by [the Karolyis]," sneaking the gymnasts food, candy and other "contraband" to build trust.

"He built this relationship in order to sexually abuse these minors, including the Plaintiff," the lawsuit alleges.

The Karolyis enabled Nassar, according to the lawsuit, by engaging essentially in a quid pro quo: by turning a "blind eye to Nassar's sexual abuse of children at the ranch," the lawsuit claims, they ensured that he would never report their abuses.

"Bela and Marta Karolyi kept Nassar on because he was willing to keep their secrets, and when you have secrets in an environment with children, that's where pedophiles flourish," Manly said.

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...octor-karolyis
sixteen-bit
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:06 PM)

Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

Gymnastic may actually be worse. I know over the past year ESPN has done a number of articles about just how bad it is



http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnast...abuse-gymnasts







http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...octor-karolyis

so fucked up
Luschient
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:11 PM)
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Shit, this is the first I'm seeing about the allegation the Karolyis were enabling this shit. Depressing as hell.

I know that Aly Raisman has been talking about abuse in gymnastics for at least the past year or so, saying USA Gymnastics wasn't doing near enough to combat it. Waiting for her to weigh in today about Kayla's situation.
kmfdmpig
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(10-18-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

Gymnastic may actually be worse. I know over the past year ESPN has done a number of articles about just how bad it is



http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnast...abuse-gymnasts







http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...octor-karolyis

That's such a systemic breakdown. It almost seems like they need specific protocols to prevent this whether body-cams, policies to prevent children being alone with coaches/trainers/doctors, etc...
llien
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:13 PM)
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I recall reading about this story years ago.
shandy706
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Byakuya769

1 in 4 women. The problem is everywhere.

I have 2 daughters.

These stories already make me want to beat every ounce of breath out of these people. I don't know what I'll do if someone hurts one of my children.

How's prison food these days?
maquiladora
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Byakuya769

1 in 4 women. The problem is everywhere.

At least 1 in 4. The problem isn't exclusive to Hollywood or the games industry etc.

The problem is with men in positions of power - everywhere.
HawksWinStanley
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by shandy706

I have 2 daughters.

These stories already make me want to beat every ounce of breath out of these people. I don't know what I'll do if someone hurts one of my children.

How's prison food these days?

Bingo. If I ever caught anyone doing something like this to my daughter I'd keep smashing my fists through their face til I was punching nothing but mush and the floor underneath.
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(10-18-2017, 05:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

Gymnastic may actually be worse. I know over the past year ESPN has done a number of articles about just how bad it is



http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnast...abuse-gymnasts







http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...octor-karolyis

burn it down and start over.
Dr.Phibes
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:26 PM)
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I thought it was well established how horrible sports like gymnastics and figure skating are, especially for female athletes.
perfectchaos007
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dreams-Visions

burn it down and start over.

The Károlyi's are finally no longer in charge but honestly they should be banned from being anywhere near US Gymnastics for turning a blind eye to this

Originally Posted by Dr.Phibes

I thought it was well established how horrible sports like gymnastics and figure skating are, especially for female athletes.

Yeah but that was mainly due to the strict diets that led to eating disorders. This sexual abuse makes takes the horrible-ness to a whole nother level
Mattlikewhoa
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:29 PM)
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Good for her for speaking out on it. He's going to get everything he deserves in prison. Stick him in gen pop, and let it be known what he's in for.


Originally Posted by dani_dc

Unfortunatey this is not a shock, particularly considering the person in question.

FBI Says Gymnastics Doctor Larry Nassar Recorded Abuse on Go Pro

A complete monster.
The only solace to take is that he's already in jail.

Jesus Christ...
BajiBoxer
Banned
(10-18-2017, 05:43 PM)
Awful :-( Not shocking though. Was wondering when some of the more famous gymnasts would come out about this stuff.

I've always been bothered by minors being trained for such high stakes demanding world competition. It's a scene ripe for abuse. How many gold metal teams were built through abuse to get the toughest most durable kids/young women for the team? The stakes make it easier for sexual predators to opperate too. No one wants to rock the boat when it's something your life is dedicated to.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by shandy706

I have 2 daughters.

These stories already make me want to beat every ounce of breath out of these people. I don't know what I'll do if someone hurts one of my children.

How's prison food these days?

Same here. The worst part is, if something were to happen the abuser would most likely get away with it whether charges are pressed or not.

Originally Posted by maquiladora

At least 1 in 4. The problem isn't exclusive to Hollywood or the games industry etc.

The problem is with men in positions of power - everywhere.

The problem is men in general. Positions of power increase the likelihood of abuse but everyday men are terrible as well.
BajiBoxer
Banned
(10-18-2017, 05:45 PM)

Originally Posted by dani_dc

Unfortunatey this is not a shock, particularly considering the person in question.

FBI Says Gymnastics Doctor Larry Nassar Recorded Abuse on Go Pro



A complete monster.
The only solace to take is that he's already in jail.

Holy shit, I somehow missed this aspect of the scandal before :-(
DonShula
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(10-18-2017, 05:46 PM)
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This is heartbreaking.
LegendofDragoonLives
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(10-18-2017, 05:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Trojita

Looking him up he was a serial abuser and caught by the FBI. He abused at least 140 victims.

What the fuck ????
ShyMel
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:50 PM)
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There are so many abusive people in positions of power across so many different fields, be it sports, movies, or more traditional jobs.
Twilight Princess
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(10-18-2017, 05:50 PM)
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If 1 in 4 women are abused, how many men that you personally know are rapists/molesters?
WoolyNinja
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:51 PM)
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Wow, I can't imagine working your entire childhood towards a dream of being in the Olympics only to get there and be sexually abused. How could there be no supervision of this guy all these years??

I hope her speaking out publicly, and seeing everyone else speaking out publicly now, gives her at least some help and comfort for dealing with what she (and probably many other gymnasts) went through. Terrible, just terrible.
RumblingRosco
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Twilight Princess

If 1 in 4 women are abused, how many men that you personally know are rapists/molesters?

It could be 1 in 100 or 1 in 1 based only on the statistic you've provided. I'm sure there are actual studies out there, though, which I'd like to dig up and see for myself.
Kill Your Masters
Member
(10-18-2017, 05:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Trojita

Looking him up he was a serial abuser and caught by the FBI. He abused at least 140 victims.

Chop his dick off.
Tahnit
Banned
(10-18-2017, 06:07 PM)
Jesus Christ what the fuck is wrong with people!?
Acorn
Member
(10-18-2017, 06:08 PM)
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Bloody hell, just proves even if you're a big name athlete you aren't safe.

Horrible.
darscot
Member
(10-18-2017, 06:10 PM)
Gymnastics is such a great sport but it is plagued with this. I'm very surprised so many have not heard of this case. Both my kids were heavy into the sport, my son still is. No child is too young to be sexually educated. This happened at the gym my daughter trained at. The person that did it targeted his victims based on the parents. Home schooled, heavily religious kids he knew the parents sheltered and would not be educated. Don't ever use playful terms for you childrens private parts all of these things make them a target. The guy fucked up when he didn't realise one boys family was divorced and his real Mother was a Doctor. The boy spoke out the moment he saw her using clear educated terms of exactly what the guy did. There was a long list of victims before he stepped up like a hero. The guy completely confessed and several of the boys and their parents just denied it and said they would pray for him. I have never wanted to smack some sense into people more in my life.
cordy
Banned
(10-18-2017, 06:13 PM)
I get angrier and angrier the more I read of these things the past few weeks and fuck it's worse than I thought. How the fuck can people do this? How? Fuck man.
Krauser Kat
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(10-18-2017, 06:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by cordy

I get angrier and angrier the more I read of these things the past few weeks and fuck it's worse than I thought. How the fuck can people do this? How? Fuck man.

because other men do nothing.
QuantumZebra
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(10-18-2017, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Albino_Yeti

Needs a bullet in his head if you ask me.

That or exteeeensive mental therapy.

I know its frowned upon on GAF but I'm much more for the former solution.

I've studied/seen enough (abuse counselor, sociologist) to know that people that deep into the pedophilia realm don't come back. It's like trying to reform a serial killer. They've seen and done things that cannot be undone.

Originally Posted by cordy

I get angrier and angrier the more I read of these things the past few weeks and fuck it's worse than I thought. How the fuck can people do this? How? Fuck man.

Because men in power let it happen/ignore it and the victims are perpetually afraid of speaking out for fear of violent/harmful retribution.
U2NUMB
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(10-18-2017, 06:24 PM)
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My 4 year old is in Gymnastics and I have another girl on the way.. I believe the coaches there are great people but fucking hell.. how can you trust people? This is so sick.. as a dad with daughters this makes me shake.

Good on her and every other victim who have come forward on this monster and others...
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
(10-18-2017, 06:31 PM)
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Go on, girl! Good on you for naming and shaming that fucker. Let's see what comes of this. Something, hopefully.
nelsonroyale
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(10-18-2017, 06:33 PM)
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Good on her for speaking up. The guy who did this is human trash.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
(10-18-2017, 06:42 PM)
Honestly, if you ever put your kids in any sort of sports... You have to scrutinize anyone involved with teaching/coaching them.
Keri
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(10-18-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Heckler456

If I had a daughter, I would never, ever leave them in a situation where they're alone with anyone else until they're like fucking 18 or some shit.

I completely understand the urge, but that's not a great solution either, because it just deprives girls of opportunities to learn independence and participate in more activities.

I think the key for parents is to focus, from a young age on teaching children (and girls especially), that they have bodily autonomy and they can remove themselves from situations that make them uncomfortable. Also, encourage them to always feel free to talk to you about it. It's likely the majority of this man's victims never told their parents, because they were ashamed or afraid of getting in trouble. I have a son, but I'm planning on telling him directly: "Do not believe anyone who tells you that you cannot talk to me about something. I will not be angry. I will help you solve your problem and then we'll talk about it."

It's heartbreaking to think that so many abusers convince children they can't talk to their parents, because their parents will be mad at them. It must feel so scary and isolating.
SenjutsuSage
(10-18-2017, 07:03 PM)
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I 100% saw this one coming. You could just see the way they would touch these girls, her especially, at these public events. It made you wonder what they did behind closed doors if they seemed so creepy in public.
Emperor_Uriel
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(10-18-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Keri

I completely understand the urge, but that's not a great solution either, because it just deprives girls of opportunities to learn independence and participate in more activities.

I think the key for parents is to focus, from a young age on teaching children (and girls especially), that they have bodily autonomy and they can remove themselves from situations that make them uncomfortable. Also, encourage them to always feel free to talk to you about it. It's likely the majority of this man's victims never told their parents, because they were ashamed or afraid of getting in trouble. I have a son, but I'm planning on telling him directly: "Do not believe anyone who tells you that you cannot talk to me about something. I will not be angry. I will help you solve your problem and then we'll talk about it."

It's heartbreaking to think that so many abusers convince children they can't talk to their parents, because their parents will be mad at them. It must feel so scary and isolating.


Basically this. We have zero sex-ed before middle school in most districts, largely because parents are uncomfortable with the education system making their kids aware of these uncomfortable topics.

The solution, in my mind, is for both parents and educators to teach children in kindergarten the three R's:
  1. Recognize that no one can touch where their bathing suit covers.
  2. Resist anyone trying to touch them in that area. If it’s an adult or an older child: run, kick, scream. If it’s someone their age: call for an adult immediately.
  3. Report to a parent or teacher anything upsetting that they did, or were asked to do, with the absolute assurance that they will not face any negative consequences for sharing. They must be aware that this applies even if they promised to keep it “secret.”
In addition, children should be taught that it's always okay to kindly ask someone to stop touching them if they aren't comfortable with the touch. This empowers children by recognizing their ability to consent to touch they enjoy while rejecting touch that makes them uncomfortable.

By empowering the victims themselves with knowledge, we can prevent anyone from being an easy target.
perfectchaos007
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(10-18-2017, 09:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by U2NUMB

My 4 year old is in Gymnastics and I have another girl on the way.. I believe the coaches there are great people but fucking hell.. how can you trust people? This is so sick.. as a dad with daughters this makes me shake.

Good on her and every other victim who have come forward on this monster and others...

I'm a guy but, when I went to see a pediatrician as a child, my mom would be there in the room with me.

As a parent, I would insist being in the doctors room when my child is getting checked out. If the doctor refuses, then thats a red flag and I would find another doctor for my child
Vuci
Member
(10-18-2017, 09:20 PM)

Originally Posted by U2NUMB

My 4 year old is in Gymnastics and I have another girl on the way.. I believe the coaches there are great people but fucking hell.. how can you trust people? This is so sick.. as a dad with daughters this makes me shake.

Good on her and every other victim who have come forward on this monster and others...

I don't want to worry you, but I'm afraid that Maroney's parents most likely thought this doctor was 'great' too.
Linkura
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(10-18-2017, 09:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

Gymnastic may actually be worse. I know over the past year ESPN has done a number of articles about just how bad it is



http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnast...abuse-gymnasts







http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...octor-karolyis

Fucking hell. :(
Mattlikewhoa
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(10-18-2017, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by shandy706

I have 2 daughters.

These stories already make me want to beat every ounce of breath out of these people. I don't know what I'll do if someone hurts one of my children.

How's prison food these days?

THIS! I have a little one of my own, and I might have a baby face, but I'm not scared to go to jail if someone was to hurt her like this.

I need to seriously take a walk...
Akuun
Looking for meaning in GAF
(10-18-2017, 09:22 PM)
I feel sick.
JABEE
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(10-18-2017, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gentleman Jack

The abuse was systemic within USA Gymnastics. Leadership outright ignored decades of claims from gymnasts and their parents that Nassar was a questionable presence, and they enabled and perpetuated the abuses. The entire organization needs to burn, not just Nassar

Just like Penn State.
perfectchaos007
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(10-18-2017, 09:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by JABEE

Just like Penn State.

Yep, and the Karoli's acted like Joe Paterno
Baraka Obama
Banned
(10-18-2017, 09:26 PM)
Reading what he did to her when she was 15 makes my fucking blood boil.
Linkura
Member
(10-18-2017, 09:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by shandy706

I have 2 daughters.

These stories already make me want to beat every ounce of breath out of these people. I don't know what I'll do if someone hurts one of my children.

How's prison food these days?

My friend's daughter is 7 years old and she was groped by an older elementary school student last year during recess when she was 6 and in kindergarten. He cited Trump's election win as part of his reasoning as to why it was ok to grope a 6 year old. I'm not fucking joking.

This shit is everywhere, and our children are watching and learning by example. This shit is not ok and never should be ok. It's absolutely horrible and negligent that this stuff has been going on for decades in certain institutions and only now is coming to light.
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(10-18-2017, 09:28 PM)
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Can we dip this dude's toes in lava? Jesus Christ.
Iksenpets
Banned
(10-18-2017, 09:28 PM)
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Olympic sports seem like a horrible breeding ground for this shit. A bunch of children picked out for their physical characteristics to begin with put into constant, intensive contact with adults who have extreme degrees of authority over them. It's bad enough that it feels like there should be special procedures in place for supervision of all contact between coaches and medical staff and athletes, because there's just way too much potential for abuse there.
Gentleman Jack
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(10-18-2017, 09:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by perfectchaos007

Yep, and the Karoli's acted like Joe Paterno

Yeah, and they were active participants in the emotional abuse of the gymnasts that made them vulnerable in the first place.

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