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SDCowboy
Member
(05-20-2017, 05:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by PSqueak

Leaving out details about your [ethnic] heritage and listing your own name as something more "white" sounding.

When i worked as part of a Directv call center the first tip i was given was to say my name was something more american and white sounding like "Robert" so the customers wouldn't flip the fuck out. The principle is the same.

I don't get it...if one put a false name down on an application, for example, wouldn't they find out as soon as they tried to hire that person, and then they would not get the job?

And as soon as that person went into an interview, they would see that person isn't white (if that were to be an issue).
Last edited by SDCowboy; 05-20-2017 at 05:12 PM.
BobLoblaw
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(05-20-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Sounding white or having a white name gets you to the front door, but overall appearance (especially complexion) still determines if they actually let you in. It should be hard to believe stuff like this still happens in 2017, but I'm finding it quite easy. :|
Darryl M R
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(05-20-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by megatronium

One of them being "See!! We DO interview and hire minorities!! We really do! We have data that shows it!!!!"

aka "I'm not racist. I have a friend who is ________"

edit: If you happen to get the job as a result of those practices and are good at your job, it's win-win.

Exactly. You have to play the game and acknowledge that there is a game to play.
The Greek Freak
Member
(05-20-2017, 05:11 PM)

Originally Posted by BobLoblaw

Sounding white or having a white name gets you to the front door, but overall appearance (especially complexion) still determines if they actually let you in. It should be hard to believe stuff like this still happens in 2017, but I'm finding it quite easy. :|

If you're just a little subtly racist and not over the top racist it's easier to dismiss a name than someone you speak to who comes off well.

People forget there is really a wide range of racism and alot of it isn't sessionsesque.
SDCowboy
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(05-20-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Wouldn't one be less likely to get a job because they put down a false name and/or ethnicity (which would be an obvious lie as soon as they met or tied to hire that person), than the chance of the interviewer being a racist?

I mean, this may help get someone into an interview, but what about actually being hired?
HawksWinStanley
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(05-20-2017, 05:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Enzom21

Why do you think this and where did you get this information?

I just assumed that if you're looking to capitalize on government incentives then you'd want to make sure your application process was streamlined to find candidates that helped you qualify. If not then what would be the point of asking about the candidate's race if there is no benefit to hiring one over the other?
DiatribeEQ
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(05-20-2017, 05:22 PM)
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Buddy of mine that I've known most of my life, while not the best example of this (While he's black, he's also a massive geek who's into sci-fi and fantasy everything, reads tons upon tons of books, ect) has never had to worry about this. His younger brother on the other hand,has struggled to find work. It wasn't until he finally had my friend re-do not only his resume, but practiced with him for interviews on how to do everything: How to dress, act, behave, converse, ECT. Said that his brother (while no reason to ever be that way as they bother come from an upper middle class family in the burbs) was as ghetto as ghetto got in everything he did and while he was smart and capable, he never got a chance to show it beyond anything fast food. Once he straightened the whole presentation part of his brother out and how he could sell himself to a prospective employer, it actually didn't take him long to find a good stepping stone styled job.
Fuchsdh
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(05-20-2017, 05:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Greek Freak

If you're just a little subtly racist and not over the top racist it's easier to dismiss a name than someone you speak to who comes off well.

People forget there is really a wide range of racism and alot of it isn't sessionsesque.

And that especially when it comes to hiring, even subconscious bias could tilt the scales. Most jobs you're getting large numbers of applicants, so you're looking for any reason to reject someone, and "that guy/girl has a made up funny sounding name" might be the factor, without them even considering that such a trivial thing would have some obvious racial and class biases at play.

Alongside previous studies I believe we've had on GAF about how law firms discriminate based on class and how equally-credentially women get shafted by hiring too, it seems like the biggest issue is that if you have an existing population doing hiring, they're far more likely to keep hiring people they think are like them, and chances are at many firms that's going to be whiter and more male.
Minamu
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(05-20-2017, 05:36 PM)
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A colleague of mine mentioned this today as a possible reason for my troubles. But I'm not black, I'm as white as can be, and I have a photo to prove it in my resume. But my surname is super Russian, even though I'm not actually Russian. I wonder if that hurts my chances or not :/
v1lla21
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(05-20-2017, 05:39 PM)
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Truuu. Gotta sound white too... Then they meet you. Lol.
GhostTrick
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(05-20-2017, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Greek Freak

What face pops up on a resume with the name Lashonda? What about Lindsey?


I don't know, but that's fucked up for sure.


Originally Posted by megatronium

They usually ask in a survey at the end of the application. They "say" it's optional. Oddly enough, one of the companies I've been interviewing for wrote me an email saying that to continue with the interview process, I had to answer the survey. I had my 3rd interview with them on Friday. They seem really interested but I'm taking a job with another company that offered it to me the week before.


In USA right ? I know for sure that'd be illegal in my country. Hence why it seems weird to me that you'd precise your ethnicity on your resume, whenever you're white/black/asian/arab/latino/anythingelse
televator
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(05-20-2017, 05:46 PM)
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Shortening my name to JC often gets really positive reactions from white people in general for me. Especially if they happen to be religious.
HiiiLife
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(05-20-2017, 05:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Darryl M R

Exactly. You have to play the game and acknowledge that there is a game to play.

Unfortunately
Supast4r
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(05-20-2017, 05:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheSpoiler

Of course this is a thing. I'm not saying "duh", because black people know this, but white people have no idea. But yeah.

I had an interview earlier this week over the phone We made small talk, and she noticed my name and started talking about how it's Irish and how her grandmother was Irish and all that jazz. At that point I knew she was under the assumption that the person speaking to her was a nice white man and not a scary black creature attempting to be human.

When I stepped into her office the next day for the in-person interview, she glared at me like I lied to her. That happy tone was gone. She even asked me to verify who I was a few times more than I felt necessary.

That's the worst part. When white people feel like we are the problem because we "lied" to them.

There is so much truth to this that it's insane.
Fuchsdh
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(05-20-2017, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Greek Freak

What face pops up on a resume with the name Lashonda? What about Lindsey?

According to some stats cited by Freakonomics, a stunningly high number of black names are unique via spellings or new invented variations. I'm not sure if they've done any studies looking at "new" names across races in recent years, because it does seem like we're getting more "white" invented names as of recently, but that might just be sample bias Brecken Kale

Looking for the paper cited actually reminded me they did a story about how much names matter, and advance the case that having a stereotypically black name doesn't actually impact you that much.

They explain those findings coexisting along with the studies like this one on resumes this way:

Although seemingly in conflict with the audit study findings, we believe the two sets of results can be reconciled. To the extent that Black names are used simply as signals of race by discriminatory employers, it is unlikely that names would be correlated with job outcomes beyond the interview stage since the employer directly observes the applicant’s race once an interview takes place. In the face of discriminatory employers, it is actually in the interest of both employee and employers for Blacks to signal race, either via a name or other resume information, rather than undertaking a costly interview with little hope of receiving a job offer. More generally, we show that Black names are correlated with family background characteristics that may predict labor market productivity, even after controlling for the type of information available to employers on resumes. If that is the case, then it may be efficient (albeit illegal) for employers to use names in screening applicants. Once an individual is personally known to us, names wane dramatically in importance, as a moment of reflection about one’s own oddly named acquaintances and colleagues will likely bear out. Because of this, and the fact that the cost of changing one’s name is low, it is hard to imagine how names could plausibly have a large impact on life outcomes, even if resume callbacks are somewhat reduced. Therefore, we conclude that the stark differences in naming patterns among Blacks and Whites is best explained as a consequence of continued racial segregation and inequality, rather than a cause that is perpetuating these factors.

n0razi
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(05-20-2017, 05:54 PM)
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What if you Asian-ify your name? Does that boost it even more?
metalslimer
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(05-20-2017, 05:55 PM)
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Yeah I'm in grad school now but applying for jobs during college and gap year I had my white voice mastered. I have a pretty black name but it's also possible it could be European as well. Anyway the initial phone interview is the most important part to actually get in the door.
Vice
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(05-20-2017, 05:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by n0razi

What if you Asian-ify your name? Does that boost it even more?

The study also involved Asian people whitening their resumes to get more interview.
Yoshimitsu126
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(05-20-2017, 05:58 PM)
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Asian American but parente gave me and my siblings white names with a phonetically white last name. This is actually pretty common for first generation minorities in SoCal.
Chocolate & Vanilla
Fuck Strawberry
(05-20-2017, 06:08 PM)
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I'm mixed race white British / Iranian and like all lot of my fellow Brit/Persian half and halfs I used to shorten my surname on a CV as it made a huge difference in getting interviews.

Just my little anecdote.
R0ckman
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(05-20-2017, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheSpoiler

Of course this is a thing. I'm not saying "duh", because black people know this, but white people have no idea. But yeah.

I had an interview earlier this week over the phone We made small talk, and she noticed my name and started talking about how it's Irish and how her grandmother was Irish and all that jazz. At that point I knew she was under the assumption that the person speaking to her was a nice white man and not a scary black creature attempting to be human.

When I stepped into her office the next day for the in-person interview, she glared at me like I lied to her. That happy tone was gone. She even asked me to verify who I was a few times more than I felt necessary.

That's the worst part. When white people feel like we are the problem because we "lied" to them.

It's probably a gaelic last name, a lot of blacks in America are actually gaelic. A very low amount of the current population in scotland can speak it. And when I mean low I mean 1% of the population.
StillEdge
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(05-20-2017, 06:45 PM)
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I have a very Hispanic first and last name so I am flagged easily.
Smokey
Just ordered 2 Laker car flags on Amazon.com
(05-20-2017, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by FeenixRising

Duh? I guess.

I mastered my white voice.

It's a must. If you don't have this, you slippin.
Sho_Nuff82
(05-20-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by SDCowboy

Wouldn't one be less likely to get a job because they put down a false name and/or ethnicity (which would be an obvious lie as soon as they met or tied to hire that person), than the chance of the interviewer being a racist?

I mean, this may help get someone into an interview, but what about actually being hired?

Off-hand dismissal based on (likely) subconscious racism vs face to face dismissal based on overt racism. A lot of people will go through with the former unknowingly, but will be appalled by the idea of the latter.

Getting your foot in the door works because it overcomes knee-jerk reactions. Of course, if the employer is overtly racist, they will resent the deception, and not hire you anyway.
Figboy79
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(05-20-2017, 09:49 PM)
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I've definitely seen interviewer's faces fall when I've walked into the interview after what seemed like an awesome phone interview.

I think for a lot of us, the hope is that getting that face to face, and somehow proving we aren't like the scary stereotypes they see of us on TV, will be enough to get us the job. "Sounding black" during the phone interview, or having a "black sounding" name are big no-no's for black people. Just like having a "non-white" sounding voice, heavy accent, or "foreign sounding" last name can hurt other minorities. It's an absurd extra hassle that we have to deal with just looking for fucking work.

I always get that extra bit of anxiety when I get the face to face interview after a good phone interview. And not just typical job interview anxiety, but "If they see I'm not white, will that negatively affect their decision?" I can usually tell how the interview is going to go when I see their reaction to me being black. I also admit that I have a sigh of relief if the person interviewing is also a minority. Doesn't matter if they're black, Mexican, Asian, etc, etc, there's some weird thing that goes on in my head where I think, "I may have a better chance at getting this job now." I hate that I feel that way, but it is what it is. I didn't ask for this country to cultivate a culture of racial bias, both overt, and subconscious. I just work with what I got, and hope that I give a killer interview, and any perceived biases go away once they see how qualified I am.

And don't even get me started on the interviews that feature comments like, "You're so well spoken!" in breathless amazement. *eyeroll*
Kelsdesu
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(05-20-2017, 10:06 PM)
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I even fib on the EEO form. "Fuck em Ye."

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