Chairmanchuck
Member
Spec Ops?
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Booted up Steam for time in months and checked the new releases....WTF
- Thread starter thekiddfran
- Start date
Spec Ops?
thekiddfran
Member
Oh fuck off with this condescending nonsense.
I am a 30 year old adult who is sick in bed and wanted to play dawn of war. Checked the store to see what new games were out this week. Scrolled down to the new and trending section and saw thrash upon thrash of anime and this suicide simulator.
So much is wrong with the entire steam layout and the way it quality controls their games.
People on here defending it calling it an open store or calling me an idiot for going to the new and trending games section.
It is not hard for a company like steam to get a quality and assurance team together to look at the list of games releasing this week, checking the games landing page and seeing if their are suitable for the audience.
Chairmanchuck
Member
There are no explicit porn games on the store, besides stuff like Witcher where you can fuck the girls you choose in several positions. Most visual novels on Steam dont even have porn content in it.
I assume you played the two new anime games that were released.
There is a disclaimer at each storepage whether its suitable for children or adults.
There are no porn games on Steam at all. The adult VN's that make it onto the platform have that content censored.
"Neo-Nazi brainwashing tools" could mean all sorts of things. There's a few shitty gamergate and Trump supporting games.
I'm sure your critical thinking can tell you just fine what should you be playing next, not a committee deciding for you what's gonna be suitable for you. You're 30 years old, like you said yourself, not 5.
We'll have to differentiate both issues.
Almost everyone who commits suicide has some psychiatric disorder, the majority of them being mood disorders and substance abuse. Those who suffer from mood disorders are more susceptible to negative responses and emotions. Having a game or the media writing about suicides on a daily basis wouldn't have a positive effect on beings with such emotional trauma.
Those who murder people doesn't necessarily have to suffer from this emotional baggage though. If we take a look at serial murders, the main characteristics of them being control freaks, master manipulators and having an egotistical behaviour. Studies have also shown that quite a few of the famous serial murderers have suffered from abuse in their childhood, which by itself is an emotional trauma, but something they have managed to suppress.
I don't think there has been any trustworthy study that has managed to link video game violence to real violence. Hatemongers like to spout this stuff though.
There have been plenty of studies, both international and domestic, that shows that media exposure to suicides can have an effect on those contemplating on taking their own lives.
But is it because Valve curates this content or because no one attempted to upload a straight-up porn game yet?
I think some anime visual novels have official uncut patches outside of the store. Why is that necessary if everything is allowed to get on Steam?
You really seem to have a hard time grasping my argument. I'll make it as simple as possible. It's really not about any individual platforms, or about you or me, it's about a fundamental difference in philosophy about what a game store should be and how these different philosophies are currently catered to by existing options.
There are many popular game distribution platforms.
All of them have more restrictive curation policies than Steam.
To me (and others I assume, based on their relative popularity), that makes them less useful.
It appears that "addressing your concern" would imply having more stringent curation policies.
As such, it would make Steam worse for my purposes.
So: making Steam into the thing you want would make it more similar to every other platform, and would make it worse at being the thing I want.
The bad part about this is that it is the only popular game platform with laissez-faire curation, so then there wouldn't be any other option remaining for those who want that.
Conversely, there are already tons of options for people who want strict curation.
Now, you could argue that there has to be a "middle road". I addressed that argument in my previous post. In short: there might be, but I haven't seen it, and in absence of that I much prefer the open option to the closed one.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Not everything is allowed to get on Steam. There are certain rules and one is "no straight porn. If you want it, you can provide uncut-patches."
Thats more because each region has different laws concerning porn. Porn games could close down a whole region on Steam.
GhostTrick
Banned
It's called choice. What's wrong with people asking to be able to make THEIR decision ? Lol, it's like opposite world. People being called defense force for asking to have the choice by people who're advocating to have things enforced for them.
I don't mind choice, the people that make this garbage teir or worse games can spin their own websites to sell this shit. And you still have the choice to go look for it as the internet is open.
I have higher expectations of trash not being sold on store fronts. Lol at expecting stores not try to sell garbage.
Ah yeah, that's for sure, like the review bombing solution thread show, there are a bunch of undesirable users but the vast majority of the user base of steam can regulate it by it's own means, the thing is, can a company really rely always in the community to do all the work while them are getting a profit out of games like suicide simulator?
That's, I think, my main concern about all this, there is no really a way to protect the user to undersirable content without a tweaking directly in the store and also Valve getting profit of this. However I do agree with you, drawing now a line might become obsolete over time and adding a curator could be bad in the long run, we don't really know, point is also that maybe a restructuration of the store page could do the trick, with the flag button more visible, the disclaimer more visible and the freedom of adding different profiles to wall garden the store.
I don't think this is the better solution and I don't think I can came up with a better one, this is a very complex issue and I think either Steam akready thought about this and scrapped it or they are working on a better fix, they added the tags which can help this but is not perfect, so they can came up with a solution to this.
My bad, I thought you were personally attacking me, I'm sorry
I don't get what you are saying, sorry
Chairmanchuck
Member
He is saying that if a Suicide Simulator is promoting Suicide, wouldnt stuff like GTA, Postal etc. promote violence?
Gravy Boat
Member
Do you use any other major store fronts? Amazon, App store? Hell even supermarkets sell a bunch of garbage crap that doesn't do what it's supposed to. Shitty products are always going to exist and are always going to be available to purchase, even through some of the biggest store fronts in the world. Just don't buy them.
GhostTrick
Banned
Guess what ? Every retailers sell garbage. Thing is, legitimate devs are hurt by curation, as explained many times. And it's easy to tell them "Well, just sell on your own website".
TheRedSnifit
Member
GTA V and Postal both have dedicated suicide buttons, incidentally.
Primethius
Banned
Yea, I don't really get why Steam doesn't have more curation in this regard. Not really a fan of garbage like this getting a free pass to be on a store like Steam.
My god, this trash is offending. You are seriously okay with every harmful stuff to be on steam because of 'freedom'? What if its racist game.. that is offending. This game OP listed is very offending too. Cant believe the defending in this thread. Im with you OP its disgusting.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Who is judging what is garbage though?
Before Valve said Visual Novels arent games. The OP said "anime trash", so he maybe wouldnt allow anime stuff on Steam, GOG doesnt allow Cook Serve Delicious on its store because its "too casual", Valve has "make your own adventure game" novel games, some would say those are garbage.
Some would say Goat Simulator is garbage.
The question is if that game is really harmful. Is it promoting suicide? Is Postal promoting violence? Is C**** G**** promoting sexual torture against children?
Primethius
Banned
I would hope that most would say, "hmmm ISIS simulator? That's garbage."
Not exactly going for a high bar here given the pics in the OP and the devs other output (Suicide Simulator).
TheRedSnifit
Member
I think we can all agree that weeb games should be removed.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I do avoid when I can, yes. But in your world, it's still OK because the other cool kids are doing it! That makes it OK! (It doesn't)
I can see a BIG difference between legitimate attempts at games that are rough around the edges vs stacking black slaves in a boat like Tetris.
Why can't you?
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The argument of "b-b-but some good games might not make it on" is bullshit. If you can't spot what is a legitimate attempt vs some edgelord cash/mindshare grab, you've got problems.
Better close your Google Play/Amazon/Netflix and iTunes account then.
There isn't games with slave Tetris on Steam.
It is easy to tell them this. Yes, I agree on at least that.
Chairmanchuck
Member
That game looks like a bad game, but its still just a Unity asset FPS where you fight ISIS soldiers.
The Tetris part is/was a 20 second part in an educational game about slavery...
That game was never an "edgelord" attempt of a shocking game, but a game that used a maybe tasteless minigame in a game that tried to teach you about the horrors of slavery.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Battlefield and CoD have multi-million dollar budgets so they're acceptable.
If you haven't picked up on it yet, indie games and AAA games aren't held to the same standards.
Gravy Boat
Member
Then don't buy it. Stop paying attention to it and move on with your life. It's doing you literally no harm if you just pretend it doesn't exist.
I can spot the difference, which is why I'd rather handle my own curation rather than leaving it to someone else.
I have similar expectations of stores across the board. This lame "aw well these other stores let junk in means its ok for Steam to as well" defense is lazy.
I'm so sad the edgy reply by Jacksinthe on last page was just a dry-by post :C
The argument about amazon's books or netflix shows needed an answer, too bad.
It goes without saying but since I dont see any way to please everyone on this issue, I prefer to have the freedom to choose and the tools to filter than to have a 3rd party decide what I want and don't want to see in a store.
Edit: Oh boy, here we go.
The fact that you are aggressively sure of what content would be worth and what wouldnt has a name and it's not pretty. Also, no comments on the comparison to Amazon/iTunes, too bad :/
The argument about amazon's books or netflix shows needed an answer, too bad.
It goes without saying but since I dont see any way to please everyone on this issue, I prefer to have the freedom to choose and the tools to filter than to have a 3rd party decide what I want and don't want to see in a store.
Edit: Oh boy, here we go.
The fact that you are aggressively sure of what content would be worth and what wouldnt has a name and it's not pretty. Also, no comments on the comparison to Amazon/iTunes, too bad :/
GhostTrick
Banned
Exactly. Going to take GOG's exemple again: Cook Serve Delicious, Assault Android Cactus, Mushihimesama, Dodonpachi Resurrection or any Visual Novels are/were refused because GOG curation either didn't care to reply to the devs, called the game casual or just said "we don't like it".
Frankly, I'd take 1000 Handspinner Simulator being released, which I have a low chance to encounter even one, rather than getting any of the title I listed refused for sale.
More good-great games are on Steam today than ever before, because they opened the platform up. If I have to live with shit games that I can ignore and that don't affect my life in the slightest, that's the smallest trade-off possible. "Steam is garbage" is the biggest hyperbole bullshit I've read in a long, long time.
Primethius
Banned
In the context of the dev having made that and then a Suicide Simulator game?
Nah, I don't see why SS should not be removed.
I personally have no problems with Suicide Simulator or ISIS Simulator as long as they are good games.
Those don't look like decent games though , they look like trash.
But I don't see why people shouldn't be able to play politically incorrect or tasteless games if they want to.
Those don't look like decent games though , they look like trash.
But I don't see why people shouldn't be able to play politically incorrect or tasteless games if they want to.
You also seem to have a very hard time figuring out what I'm trying to say as well, I will try to down play it enough;
Steam, as a platform, in my opinion, should give the user some ways to prevent stuff like this to happen, not because your personal purposes or whatever, because you shouldn't think individually, but in a general context.
I do have complaints, and I hope you agree, this kind of stuff is more harmful for the platform that good, even if they have a surprinsingly thoughtful disclaimer, stuff like Suicide SImulator makes, at least me, very concerned about the whole process of saying what's good or not.
Since the company allows everything and that is not going to change, it would be great that the users could adress it better and more efficient and make their own curation.
Problem is can we trust the user base for this? As it shows in the review bomb tool solution with the graphs, we can actually rely on the platform to curate itself and prevent bad things like bombing to some extent, however, maybe in the future would be great if Steam makes review the games that are openly gross and make something, I don't know what, about them
As I said it in other posts, a set of profiles with different content aviable for the same account, like Netflix, could do the trick. As well, I could be totally wrong about this
GhostTrick
Banned
I can see it too. Some platforms proved to not be able. Do you think for exemple Assault Android Cactus or Cook Serve Delicious aren't worthy to be sold on a store ? Legitimate question. Because that happened and these were decisions because someone didn't liked these games.
I'm not saying this situation is perfect, I'm saying I prefer this one than the other. And that in the second solution, you wouldn't be able to buy the games you prefer to buy elsewhere... or you wouldn't be able to sell your games.
And you know, when I say I can see it too, I'm already enforcing my views. Because I could think some games aren't worth a look when they may be for you.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Valve needs to employ some actual humans to curate their shit. I hate this techno-libertarian philosophy of "we take zero responsibility for what appears in our store".
I'm pretty sure Christine love, developer of ladykiller in a bind, said that the steamversion of her game is entirely uncensored.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Why?
In 99% of cases (OP seems to be in the 1%), you're not going to find those games by browsing Steam unless you specifically search them out and instead hear about them from a Jim Sterling video or a thread on NeoGAF or something.
For the other 1% Steam already gives you tools to filter out games with Nudity, and games with certain tags (like, you can already filter out 'Meme' or 'Anime') or even report the game and Valve might even remove it anyway.
Chairmanchuck
Member
They did that and didnt allow Visual Novels on Steam.
They said a game like Stardew Valley wouldnt be on Steam when their curation was still alive.
They didnt allow Oil Blue on Steam.
Stuff like Shmups wouldnt be on Steam.
A very far off that % don't you think, and the tag problem has been already discussed in other posts
The vast majority of people that kill other people are not serial murders, or people with serial murder characteristics, so not quite sure how that really applies.
it seems to me that not all people that commit murder are emotionally balanced and free of emotional baggage or substance abuses, so if one group is susceptible to influence due to those issues, why shouldn't the other, and ofc if we are taking the lack of evidence on a link between video game violence and real violence (which is fair) why can't we also do the same for suicides and video games.
In the end I really see no reason why video games that are essentially about killing people should be allowed to stay (which I think they should), while video games about suicide can't (which this one isn't but let us pretend it is).
The idea of video games influencing people into any kind of death is the sort of extraordinary claim that I believe requires extraordinary proof before we should do anything about it.
I find it bizarre that a real human cant tell the difference between an actual decent game and shovelware garbage.
Like it's obvious Stardew isn't Bad Rats.