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Knowingly exposing others to HIV will no longer be a felony in California

Kevyt

Member
As a gay in Washington DC this is really awesome! Glad others are catching up. DC decriminalized it a while back.

The CDC made an announcement that persons who are on their HIV medication are highly unlikely to pass HIV onto others.

Also your health is your responsibility! Safe sex is great sex! 👌
 
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.
Damn. Sorry to hear man :(

And yeah this thread is fucking nuts
 
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.

And that's fine. No matter how much you hate us I'll continue to advocate for what s in the beat interest of public health. And once again no is advocating for people purposely putting others in danger
 

royalan

Member
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.

You know what? I'm not sparing you. It disgusts me when people hide behind emotional stories to make disingenuous, poorly supported arguments.

I am gay. I have worked in STD prevention and education. I know people with HIV. I know people who have died from HIV/AIDS related health complications. So fucking stop it.

That does not change the fact that destigmatizing HIV is, on the whole, a good thing that will lead to smarter adults, less fear, and fewer infections in the future.
 

KaYotiX

Banned
As a gay in Washington DC this is really awesome! Glad others are catching up. DC decriminalized it a while back.

The CDC made an announcement that persons who are on their HIV medication are highly unlikely to pass HIV onto others.

Also your health is your responsibility! Safe sex is great sex! 👌

It's still fucked up....
 
You know what? I'm not sparing you. It disgusts me when people hide behind emotional stories to make disingenuous, poorly supported arguments.

I am gay. I have worked in STD prevention and education. I know people with HIV. I know people who have died from HIV/AIDS related health complications. So fucking stop it.

That does not change the fact that destigmatizing HIV is, on the whole, a good thing that will lead to smarter adults, less fear, and few infections in the future.

It's pretty sad when people act like I don't know far more people who have been infected than they do and obviously some of them were infected by careless people. Obviously criminalization didn't prevent their infection
 

FoneBone

Member
strange how no one espousing vitriol towards HIV+ people who don’t disclose their status doesn’t espouse the same towards sexually active at-risk people who aren’t getting regularly tested, even though the latter group presents a much higher health risk
 
strange how no one espousing vitriol towards HIV+ people who don’t disclose their status doesn’t espouse the same towards sexually active at-risk people who aren’t getting regularly tested, even though the latter group presents a much higher health risk

Because that's not what this topic is about.
If you want a thread of people decrying that, start a thread on it and it will happen.
 

sjboi

Member
No, it's an incentive to never find out of you have it in the first place until you're hospitalized and already spread it.

Why? I disagree. As I understand, it’s not a felony to spread it IF you disclose your status. Having HIV itself isn’t the felony here. Do you really think it’s common for people who suspect they’ve been infected with HIV to *willfully* remain ignorant of their own status and refuse testing, all because they think they will eventually be dishonest with someone, fuck them, get caught in the lie, and get charged with a felony? Naw, that seems like bullshit. Anecdotally, if I think I’ve been infected with HIV, I’m calling out of work and sprinting to the nearest clinic. Choosing to not find out because I envision myself engaging in felony behavior in the future seems totally ridiculous and I never even thought of such a thing until reading this thread. I think it is WAY more likely that criminalizing non-disclosure prevents poz people from lying moreso than it discourages people from getting tested.
 
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.

Sorry about your brother.
 
You know what? I'm not sparing you. It disgusts me when people hide behind emotional stories to make disingenuous, poorly supported arguments.

I am gay. I have worked in STD prevention and education. I know people with HIV. I know people who have died from HIV/AIDS related health complications. So fucking stop it.

That does not change the fact that destigmatizing HIV is, on the whole, a good thing that will lead to smarter adults, less fear, and fewer infections in the future.
My frustration lies with people who act as though it is easy for people to care for HIV. It's not a "no big deal" disease. I too know people who have died. It's a big fucking deal. Anything that can kill you is a big fucking deal. Acting like it isn't is fucking ridiculous. People acting like everyone can wrestle with this thing and win is fucking ridiculous. Acting like everyone has the same access to life saving drugs is fucking ridiculous. I just...the fuck?

The worst part is, we agree on destigmatization. I never said lock that fucker who infected my brother up. Ever. I said it's not as easy as people are making it out to be. Fucking a.
 
Why? I disagree. As I understand, it’s not a felony to spread it IF you disclose your status. Having HIV itself isn’t the felony here. Do you really think it’s common for people who suspect they’ve been infected with HIV to *willfully* remain ignorant of their own status and refuse testing, all because they think they will eventually be dishonest with someone, fuck them, get caught in the lie, and get charged with a felony? Naw, that seems like bullshit. Anecdotally, if I think I’ve been infected with HIV, I’m calling out of work and sprinting to the nearest clinic. Choosing to not find out because I envision myself engaging in felony behavior in the future seems totally ridiculous and I never even thought of such a thing until reading this thread. I think it is WAY more likely that criminalizing non-disclosure prevents poz people from lying moreso than it discourages people from getting tested.
It's really a thing. Read about 'downlow guys' in the LGBT community.
 

FoneBone

Member
Also, it needs to be emphasized over and over that this is a position taken by virtually every public health organization working in HIV prevention. It is not in any way a fringe position, no matter what your gut reaction may be
 
My frustration lies with people who act as though it is easy for people to care for HIV. It's not a "no big deal" disease. I too know people who have died. It's a big fucking deal. Anything that can kill you is a big fucking deal. Acting like it isn't is fucking ridiculous. People acting like everyone can wrestle with this thing and win is fucking ridiculous. Acting like everyone has the same access to life saving drugs is fucking ridiculous. I just...the fuck?

The worst part is, we agree on destigmatization. I never said lock that fucker who infected my brother up. Ever. I said it's not as easy as people are making it out to be. Fucking a.

People aren't trying to paint HIV as easy. They are saying that some of the justification for the old law is void.
 

royalan

Member
It's pretty sad when people act like I don't know far more people who have been infected than they do and obviously some of them were infected by careless people. Obviously criminalization didn't prevent their infection

RIGHT?!? It's infuriating.

People in this thread act like this hasn't been a law on the books in California THIS WHOLE FUCKING TIME. And yet it has done BALD ASS MOTHERFUKING SHIT to stop the spread of the disease, but a whole lot to make people afraid to even get tested, and make it harder for the people on the ground doing the real ass work.
 
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.
If that's the case with your brother you should be happy that California is making laws that will help prevent the spread of HIV, yeah?
 
People aren't trying to paint HIV as easy. They are saying that some of the justification for the old law is void.
Please read comments above extolling the great strides made regarding HIV drugs and what a difference it has made. I agree. We have made great strides, but People sometimes forget that not everyone has access to the same drugs. Not everyone is lucky enough to have insurance or funding for programs that provide drugs to them. It's fucked to act like just because there are great drugs out there everyone is on them.
 

Kevyt

Member
Also, it needs to be emphasized over and over that this is a position taken by virtually every public health organization working in HIV prevention. It is not in any way a fringe position, no matter what your gut reaction may be

Pretty much.

I have not seen, met or worked with a public health agency in the states in HIV prevention that didn't support this.
 

sjboi

Member
It's really a thing. Read about 'downlow guys' in the LGBT community.

I’m gay and have fucked many dl guys. I know many people choose to remain willfully ignorant of their HIV/STD status, but I think that’s more of a case of “ignorance is bliss”, where they don’t want to face their own choices, than because they fear being sent to jail because of non-disclosure. Like, I just don’t see how the law (as it was previously) prevented testing, as many in this thread claim.
 

royalan

Member
I’m gay and have fucked many dl guys. I know many people choose to remain willfully ignorant of their HIV/STD status, but I think that’s more of a case of “ignorance is bliss”, where they don’t want to face their own choices, than because they fear being sent to jail because of non-disclosure. Like, I just don’t see how the law (as it was previously) prevented testing, as many in this thread claim.

You answered your own inquiry with the part that I put in bold.
 
I think it’s wholly possible to destigmatize HIV without making the condition seem harmless. The disease is absolutely deadly if you don’t have the means to access the treatments available now.

I think it’s important to remember that young people are inflicted with HIV as well. And leaving the full responsibility of sexual health to both parties in the current state of the American sexual education system is poor.
 
My frustration lies with people who act as though it is easy for people to care for HIV. It's not a "no big deal" disease. I too know people who have died. It's a big fucking deal. Anything that can kill you is a big fucking deal. Acting like it isn't is fucking ridiculous. People acting like everyone can wrestle with this thing and win is fucking ridiculous. Acting like everyone has the same access to life saving drugs is fucking ridiculous. I just...the fuck?

The worst part is, we agree on destigmatization. I never said lock that fucker who infected my brother up. Ever. I said it's not as easy as people are making it out to be. Fucking a.

Isn't that exactly what this thread is about though?

People are saying it shouldn't be illegal, you called them a defense force.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
For Herpes I'm not sure why we haven't made a vaccine yet. I know with other Viruses like HCV it's difficult because of antigenic variation and other factors. I guess for Herpes, in general, it's not as "serious", and there's very good medication for it. Because of that there's less funding/research into it compared to something like HIV/Ebola/etc.

I don't know if it's HSV-1 or HSV-2 or both, but hasn't there been a suggested link between herpes and Alzheimer's or dementia? Because if there is concrete evidence of that, just that alone would make it the scariest of all STIs, in my opinion.
 
I don't know if it's HSV-1 or HSV-2 or both, but hasn't there been a suggested link between herpes and Alzheimer's or dementia? Because if there is concrete evidence of that, just that alone would make it the scariest of all STIs, in my opinion.
I’d need to see the receipts on that. Herpes is so prolific that you can find a correlation between it and literally every other condition a person may have depending on the interpreter of the data.
 
Isn't that exactly what this thread is about though?

People are saying it shouldn't be illegal, you called them a defense force.
People are on different tracks in this thread.

The OP is about the decriminalization, but much of the discussion has been about whether or not HIV+ people should disclose the truth of their infection before having sex. Which is a fair thing to also bring up.

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS DISCLOSE.
 
Isn't that exactly what this thread is about though?

People are saying it shouldn't be illegal, you called them a defense force.
Again, my frustration lies with "great drugs so no big deal" GAF, not with "destigmatization of HIV" GAF. Unfortunately, there is a big mix of of both in this thread.
 
Again, my frustration lies with "great drugs so no big deal" GAF, not with "destigmatization of HIV" GAF. Unfortunately, there is a big mix of of both in this thread.
I agree. I think that we need to stop treating everyone equally regarding the choices they make imo. In the case of your brother, his partner neither disclosed his condition nor did he have the full rationale to weigh his decisions because of his age, and more likely, the inaccesbility of clinics and HIV exceptionalism makes it difficult to seek treatment and get a result if you ever had curiosity relating to your partner’s condition. I think there’s a level of nuance missing in the current discourse. The extremities are a bit too much because each particular case of transmission is different and should not be treated with a blanket mentality.
 

DR2K

Banned
WTF? If anything purposely exposing people to any STD should be a criminal offense. HIV is the worst, it's a life sentence.
 

sjboi

Member
You answered your own inquiry with the part that I put in bold.

Not getting tested because of insecurities (dL guys) or because you don’t want to face the music of your HIV status (quite a few people, I suspect) is different than not getting tested because you fear a felony law regarding non-disclosure. The first two are realistic scenarios, but I don’t think the latter happens, at all.
 
WTF? If anything purposely exposing people to any STD should be a criminal offense. HIV is the worst, it's a life sentence.
This is my position:

1. HIV is bad, we should prevent transmission.
2. HIV exceptionalism, treating HIV as its own caste, makes it particularly difficult to seek treatment and find results because medical practitioners don’t treat HIV similarily to all other STDs.
3. Non-disclosure of someone who is HIV+ but with an undetected load is unethical and immoral, primarily because you’re removing your partners’ agency by withholding information from them.
4. Passing STDs to a younger partner when you’re the older party is immoral, especially because the power dynamic is all sorts of fucked up.
5. We should destigmatize HIV whilst ensuring that the spread of HIV is controlled. We can also punish people depending on their intent, and if found that the person whom transmitted did so out of malice or oblivious irresponsibility, then they should be punished accordingly.*

** This is relating to all types of life-threatening STDs, not just HIV.
** Oblivious irresponsibility refers to those that know they have the disease and are not seeking treatment, but willingly sleeps with other partners without disclosing their status.
 
I agree. I think that we need to stop treating everyone equally regarding the choices they make imo. In the case of your brother, his partner neither disclosed his condition nor did he have the full rationale to weigh his decisions because of his age, and more likely, the inaccesbility of clinics and HIV exceptionalism makes it difficult to seek treatment and get a result if you ever had curiosity relating to your partner’s condition. I think there’s a level of nuance missing in the current discourse. The extremities are a bit too much because each particular case of transmission is different and should not be treated with a blanket mentality.

Thank you so much for this post. I was so angry and frustrated that I barged in guns blazing and fhat wasn't helpful.
 

basik

Member
This is a election losing issue for dems, so I expect to see them pushing it hard in 2018,2020. What else can we do to lose?
 
As a 33 year old heterosexual virgin atheist... I'm indifferent towards this.

Like, considering my experience, or lack thereof, I have ZERO room to speak on this subject.

Otherwise, in general, my hope is we reduce the prison population, so if that helps it along, great? IDK. Hopefully.
 

pixelation

Member
Some of y'all act like everyone has insurance and can care for themselves if they have HIV. Fuck y'all. Seriously. After spending a summer with my brother battling mrsa because funding got cut from the program providing him his HIV meds the hate I have in my heart for y'all feels like the fire of a thousand suns. Fucking defense force for every fucking thing. I'm so mad. So. Fucking. Mad.

His boyfriend knew he was positive and didn't tell my brother. My brother was in his early 20's. He'd never had a partner before the guy who infected him. He was awkward and chubby and not out in high school so he never dated. He was so happy to have someone love him. The relationship faded but the disease is with him for life.

This is so sad, and i am sorry for your brother. But they don't want to understand, they are very okey with not disclosing their HIV status because it's "almost" impossible to pass it when levels are low. Why would they risk rejection and missing out on the fun?. Also everyone has access to HIV medication were they to be unfortunate enough to get it apparently, nevermind the fact that being HIV+ changes your life in so many ways and limits severely what you can and can't do. But hey! there's a fucking defense force for everything.
 

royalan

Member
This is so sad, and i am sorry for your brother. But they don't want to understand, they are very okey with not disclosing their HIV status because it's "almost" impossible to pass it when levels are low. Why would they risk rejection and missing out on the fun?. Also everyone has access to HIV medication were they to be unfortunate enough to get it apparently, nevermind the fact that being HIV+ changes your life in so many ways and limits severely what you can and can't do. But hey! there's a fucking defense force for everything.

So, um, how many hours have you logged in, volunteering and educating the masses on STD prevention and treatment?

Because you're lecturing people in this thread who have done exactly this, and not making one lick of sense in the process. Not one.
 

pixelation

Member
So, um, how many hours have you logged in, volunteering and educating the masses on STD prevention and treatment?

Because you're lecturing people in this thread who have done exactly this, and not making one lick of sense in the process. Not one.

Oh i am not?, wiggle yourself out of the cost issue. Not everyone has access to HIV meds... i await.

-Why are people not willing to let people know about their HIV status? rejection
-How can HIV limit/change ones life? i'll give one example, a boxer who is HIV positive cannot continue fightiing.

Offer counterpoints... don't be lame and just say "i don't make a lick of sense"
 

Ri'Orius

Member
Again, my frustration lies with "great drugs so no big deal" GAF, not with "destigmatization of HIV" GAF. Unfortunately, there is a big mix of of both in this thread.

I think you're taking people out of context. People saying it's no big deal are saying that in response to people who think it's a death sentence.

Nobody thinks HIV is easy, but there's undeniably a lot of ignorance in this thread as to the current state of HIV treatment and prevention. And it's not coming from the people who support this legislation.

At the end of the day, the bigness of a deal is always relative, and right now, HIV is no big deal relative to the public perception of HIV.

This is so sad, and i am sorry for your brother. But they don't want to understand, they are very okey with not disclosing their HIV status because it's "almost" impossible to pass it when levels are low. Why would they risk rejection and missing out on the fun?. Also everyone has access to HIV medication were they to be unfortunate enough to get it apparently, nevermind the fact that being HIV+ changes your life in so many ways and limits severely what you can and can't do. But hey! there's a fucking defense force for everything.

Nobody is saying it's "almost" impossible, it's "effectively" impossible. That is, it's literally never happened. But hey, what do those scientists know, right? Can't even explain magnets.
 

pixelation

Member
I think you're taking people out of context. People saying it's no big deal are saying that in response to people who think it's a death sentence.

Nobody thinks HIV is easy, but there's undeniably a lot of ignorance in this thread as to the current state of HIV treatment and prevention. And it's not coming from the people who support this legislation.

At the end of the day, the bigness of a deal is always relative, and right now, HIV is no big deal relative to the public perception of HIV.



Nobody is saying it's "almost" impossible, it's "effectively" impossible. That is, it's literally never happened. But hey, what do those scientists know, right? Can't even explain magnets.

Show me studies with a big fat ZERO chance... go on. I await... not almost... not practically... not technically... i need a ZERO.
 

Evilkazzzz

Neo Member
I dont get it.

That's a fucked up thing to do. Seems like it deserves years in prison if it's proven intentional. Until the day we've mostly cured HIV, intentional exposure of someone else to it (presumably without their knowledge) is grossly irresponsible and possibly malicious.
 

Ri'Orius

Member
Show me studies with a big fat ZERO chance... go on. I await... not almost... not practically... not technically... i need a ZERO.

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html

Across three different studies, including thousands of couples and many thousand acts of sex without a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), no HIV transmissions to an HIV-negative partner were observed when the HIV-positive person was virally suppressed. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load have effectively no risk of sexually transmitting the virus to an HIV-negative partner.

This link was, of course, posted back on page three. You even quoted the post mentioning it.

Maybe you'll actually pay attention this time, eh?
 

royalan

Member
Oh i am not?, wiggle yourself out of the cost issue. Not everyone has access to HIV meds... i await.

Again, let me remind you that you're talking to people who have actually had to deal with this. Who have had to reach out and educate and guide others.

If you're so caught up on the cost issue, go out and educate yourself, instead of charging into a thread and telling experienced people what it is that we "don't want" to believe, as if you have a clue. Being so Strong and Wrong is never cute.

Are HIV medications expensive? Yes, very much so. As is the case with pretty much all prescription drugs in the United States. This is a dire issue that extends beyond HIV. But, as is the case with a lot of drugs, there are options. There are several programs here in PA alone that will subsidize all or most of the cost of meds depending on several factors (income, family status, type of insurance, etc.). This is also true of California.

There are medications available and help out there to make care manageable for many Americans suffering from the disease. Are we where we need to be or SHOULD be? No. But there is help out there and HIV is NOT the death sentence it once was.

And if you're so concerned about people going broke from contracting HIV, then you really should care about defanging harmful laws that do nothing but discourage people from getting tested and contribute to the spread of the disease.
 

KonradLaw

Member
Can people who inentionally infect others with HIV be prosecuted under different, more generals laws in USA? Because otherwise it's a really weird change.
 

CookTrain

Member
Can people who inentionally infect others with HIV be prosecuted under different, more generals laws in USA? Because otherwise it's a really weird change.

I think there are broader laws that concern intentionally passing on STDs in general (possibly just contagious diseases in general, but your mileage may vary depending on where you live). So this is just about not singling out HIV as some bogeyman and instead treating it as it is.
 
I'm gonna repeat again, since the OP left it out - it's still illegal to knowingly expose others to HIV! It's just treated like every single other serious infectious disease in CA - a misdemeanor instead of a felony.
 

KonradLaw

Member
I think there are broader laws that concern intentionally passing on STDs in general. So this is just about not singling out HIV as some bogeyman and instead treating it as it is.

Most STDs can be cured though and aren't fatal if left untreated. HIV is life altering and requiring medication for the rest of your life. This is pretty much causing permanent bodily harm to a person, so should be treated as some form of assault.
 
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