• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

WiiU technical discussion (serious discussions welcome)

I don't know anything about GPU architecture, but I can count.

I don't see 8 of anything. How is he grouping them?

I don't know don't think he said. I'm gonna guess here. If you look to the right the brighter colored area. You'll see some rectangles that have smaller boxes in their corners. Which look similar to SIMDs from other die images to me (though I could totally be wrong here and if some one wants to correct it go right ahead) If you look at those you can see 8 of those similar set up (with the top row offset to the right from the bottom row). I THINK that's what he's looking at as the SIMD units. I can't say for sure though, and it's just a guess. It's the only thing that looks similar to other die photos that there are 8 of. so *shrug*
 

The Boat

Member
Wouldn't be a Wii U discussion without them would it? Hopefully people who take these things personal can step back and realize they aren't chained to a single machine.
this won't happen.
On another note, I should take this oportunity to learn more about this subject since I am an EE student. I just don't know where to start.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
I don't know anything about GPU architecture, but I can count.

I don't see 8 of anything. How is he grouping them?

Congrats you are blind or you can't count
Jd4ZbUG.png


they even have the same shape of the SIMD cores of the 4870
 

USC-fan

Banned
If you really want me to quote some of your posts claiming repearedly that the GPU is a R700 and nothing more I can do that. I also remember you claiming the range of shader power was 240-300gflops and I'm pretty sure I can find that quote. Though to be fair you could possibly have decided on a higher range later.

Yes i would. Good luck...
 

Schnozberry

Member
so the general consensus is that the chip is "bad" or not what was expected even with already low expectations. but what is this based on?, it seems there is also no concrete facts/analysis yet, or much known yet about it, other than there possibly being fixed function hardware, or is that it?

I am not trying to make a point, just trying to understand.

The answer is we don't know yet. There is a bit more custom logic than expected, and folks are still trying to decipher what that means, along with attempting to count some of the other more boiler plate GPU stuff like SIMD units.
 
See the above for a very good reason why - unless questions like that can be answered - launching a new thread just now isn't a great idea.

To have a good die shot to work from is brilliant, but not if the discussion and dissection in the meantime is going to introduce more confusion.
 

majik13

Member
The answer is we don't know yet. There is a bit more custom logic than expected, and folks are still trying to decipher what that means, along with attempting to count some of the other more boiler plate GPU stuff like SIMD units.

ok, it just seems even knowledgeable people are outright saying it is bad. I guess I will just have to wait, with low expectations.
 

z0m3le

Banned
S right now the 4870 is the closest as far as die shots go to what we have for Wii U?

HD 4770 would be the closest if someone can find it... it's 40nm.

I don't have confirmation, but similar looking clusters on the R700 die shot have 20 SPUs each.
What? HD 4870 has 10 SIMDs, this has 8...? 800 ALUs in HD 4870... so 640 here... unless it isn't HD 4000 based, or HD 5000 based, in which case we know nothing...
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
How the hell did nintendo stuff a HD 4770 in there? that is a bit extreme... I am still not believing it...

IF this is VLIW5 and we are right about the SIMDs, that is 704GFLOPs... WHAT?

Seems to good to be true to me. And when things seem to good, they probably are.

I don't have confirmation, but similar looking clusters on the R700 die shot have 20 SPUs each.

Makes a lot more sense.
 
Congrats, Nintendo, for giving us apparently last-gen tech and charging us $350 for it.
Wait a moment... so if at the end the thing ends up having 640ALUs (best speculation was 480) plus A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF FIXED FUNCTIONS... then... how the hell is this "last-gen" tech?
¡It will destroy anything the PS360 can do easily!

And we are speaking of raw power here, but I'm sure that this hardware is MORE EFFICIENT as well (those 32MB of eDram, if used correctly, will boost efficiency at levels PS360 can only dream of).
 
Wait a moment... so if at the end the thing ends up having 640ALUs (best speculation was 480) plus A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF FIXED FUNCTIONS... then... how the hell is this "last-gen" tech?
¡It will destroy anything the PS360 can do easily!

And we are speaking of raw power here, but I'm sure that this hardware is MORE EFFICIENT as well (those 32MB of eDram, if used correctly, will boost efficiency at levels PS360 can only dream of).





It won't ends up with 640ALU. Except if the GPU process is 28nm or less, I can't see that possible. More expecting the 160 thing.


So things are looking BETTER?





I'd say they are looking worse.
 

Effect

Member
So in the end we'll likely know nothing as the hardware is even more customized then originally thought? Even if we know numbers that doesn't mean they'll accurately reflect what can be done on the system?

Hasn't that always been the case with Nintendo systems? Numbers say one thing but the games speak for themselves while getting better over the course of the hardware's lifespan. Why should the Wii U be any different.

I for one do not believe at all the Wii U is equal or weaker to the PS3/360 when it comes to what really matters. The games.. Nothing I've seen in terms of games and Nintendo's past history and knowing what they've said can make me believe that. Like always I'll let the games speak for themselves in the end.
 

ozfunghi

Member
Please stop with the manic depressing behaviour.

OMG 640 ALU's
WTF 160 ALU's
etc

Please remain calm, until someone knowledgable tells us what's what.
 

AzaK

Member
Does anyone have a link to a 4770 die shot? This is exciting and I'm learning lots here.

I sincerely hope Microsoft doesn't use this info to misrepresent the Wii U in their advertising.

Well that will maybe teach Nintendo to not be secretive. I think being open and honest about your specs gives you the chance to justify it without rampant enthusiast gamer speculation that migth actually hurt sales.

Wait a moment... so if at the end the thing ends up having 640ALUs (best speculation was 480) plus A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF FIXED FUNCTIONS... then... how the hell is this "last-gen" tech?
¡It will destroy anything the PS360 can do easily!

And we are speaking of raw power here, but I'm sure that this hardware is MORE EFFICIENT as well (those 32MB of eDram, if used correctly, will boost efficiency at levels PS360 can only dream of).

It won't have 640, you should know by now not to expect the best.

Please stop with the manic depressing behaviour.

OMG 640 ALU's
WTF 160 ALU's
etc

Please remain calm, until someone knowledgable tells us what's what.

this
 
Looking at it wrong guys. It take 4 blocks for 80 ALUs clusters. 20 ALU per block. You have 8 block or 2 80 ALUs cluster. That is why he posted 160.

I'm looking at this from my phone but that what I see.
Yes, comparing it with the 4870 die shot, it seems it's 20ALU's per block. So 160ALUs seems more plausible than 640 for me at this moment.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Looking at it wrong guys. It take 4 blocks for 80 ALUs clusters. 20 ALU per block. You have 8 block or 2 80 ALUs cluster. That is why he posted 160.

I'm looking at this from my phone but that what I see.

Thanks! yeah I was looking at it wrong, it's not 8 SIMDs, it is 2... 160 ALUs

160 x 2 x .55 = 176GFLOPs... That is extremely crazy too! LOL

In this kind of power envelope the clockspeed would suffer greatly. Lets not be too whimsical
That is why it made no sense to me... lol wow that is extremely small. Well at least we know for certain now.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
HD 4770 would be the closest if someone can find it... it's 40nm.

What? HD 4870 has 10 SIMDs, this has 8...? 800 ALUs in HD 4870... so 640 here... unless it isn't HD 4000 based, or HD 5000 based, in which case we know nothing...

the 4870 has 40 SIMD cores not 10

die-shot-colored.jpg
 
Thanks! yeah I was looking at it wrong, it's not 8 SIMDs, it is 2... 160 ALUs

160 x 2 x .55 = 176GFLOPs... That is extremely crazy too! LOL


That is why it made no sense to me... lol wow that is extremely small. Well at least we know for certain now.

What's the 2 in the formula, the number of operations per hertz? I'm assuming .55 is the hertz right?
 

tkscz

Member
it's going to take me about an hour to get home, in that time I expect gaf to be completely destroyed from this information. sub 200 Gflops is crazy, I must admit, but most of the GPU is fix function, makers those flops mean little.
 

USC-fan

Banned
Wiiu is a test case of BC just ruining the hardware of the system. It was more important to run wii game than it was to push performance at all.
 

TAS

Member
I think you're spot on. Disappointingly low flops but fixed functions to make up for it.

But that basically would also mean its impossible to compare it to anything else...

No doubt the reason why Nintendo doesn't give detailed specs. On paper, it looks underwhelming but in real world scenarios it's surprisingly competent. At this point, I couldn't care less how many FLOPs the GPU has. I have no doubt the Wii U is a highly specialized machine like the GameCube was and the games will look and perform amazing.
 
Wiiu is a test case of BC just ruining the hardware of the system. It was more important to run wii game than it was to push performance at all.

Might be more a case of a ridiculously low TDP target (30-35W while running) ruining performance. Considering how much PPW the actual hardware configuration gets, I'd think that even an additional 10-15W would have allowed them to eliminate most or all of the current-gen porting issues, at the very least.
 
Top Bottom