So they should limit the size of patches so it takes less time to download, like on the Xbox 360?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-23-extensive-skullgirls-patch-finally-coming-to-xbla
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Multiple Game Patches/Updates on PS3...
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
- Start date
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-23-extensive-skullgirls-patch-finally-coming-to-xbla
Metalmurphy
Member
Steam works differently, it knows the out of date files and updates them individually to the latest version. No idea on the 360, but iirc they have limits on update sizes which is why it isn't as bothersome.
Hell no, I'd rather wait longer then know that developers might have had to make compromises.
the_batman
Banned
ok but if your connection isn't set up beyond 4Mbps then of course you won't get the benefits of a faster network structure.
and the psn download speeds aren't consistent, like i can download a full game, around 12gb, in a couple hours, but 500mb patches take around an hour as well.
That's interesting, but if it does know, why does it take so long to verify if game data is complete? It would seem that process would be required for Steam to know which files need addressing? Or is it just in some sort of data registry, and the verify integrity thing is like a full manual check?
Miles Quaritch
Member
I don't mind compatibility updates. Had to download them for Borderlands 2, but forcing them onto players instead of just providing the option would be the better approach.
Okay, I guess that makes sense. Still, as a gamer, I'd rather the focused on using a similar approach to that on the 360. It's considerably less frustrating, especially if all you want to do is have a quick game session.
I can understand why they don't though...
Basically, it's nice to want things.
Sigh, if only...
Tizoc
Member
Well...
1- I have 700+ items in my download list for PS3, having to scroll down a random 100 just to find the game or DLC I wanna dl is rather irritating
2- The PS3 Store's search function isn't very effective, as some titles on the PS Store have duplicate pages, eg Bionic Commando ReArmed 1 has 2 pages: One for the Demo+Instant Purchase, and another page for the Unlock Key.
When I tried to buy BC1 through the webstore it mainly linked to the demo page, and did not allow me to buy the game from that page, the PS3 Store linked to the same page as well when I searched for BC1. I managed to find the BC1 unlock key page with an 'advanced search' on the webstore though.
tl;dr Searching via the PS3 Store does not guarantee you finding the game you want, ESPECIALLY if the game was removed from the store like the PSX R-Type games.
3- No offense but have you tried the PS3 Store's search function?
SillyEskimo
Member
I have yet to actually play this game because of this. I start the patching and eventually play something else.
Rabid-Coot
Member
It gives a patch reminder every 10 miutes if you do that now.
Terbinator
Member
What is Sony chose not to fix the current shitty implementation to get people to go PS+?
Basileus777
Member
It's annoying when this happens for PSN games. Why can't Sony put the patched version of the game up for download?
Terbinator
Member
So which is it? Either my network isn't setup for the fastest speeds (it is) or is it Sony's dodgy servers? Both of which aren't having a shitty connection speed as your originally suggested.
Sony's network blows. Everyone knows this.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Yes and no. The patch sizes on 360 grown considerably over the past couple of years (the biggest I've encountered was 2gb for BF3) but even then, you're only downloading one patch no matter when you play. Be it six months after launch to two years later, you'll still only download the latest patch. That's what I'd like to see as standard on SP3 instead of leaving it up to the developer.
Doesn't this only download patches for the last 10 or so games you've played? Doesn't really help you if you want to play something you haven't played for a while.
Metalmurphy
Member
Can't say I ever had a game do that unless I manually tell it to in the options (Verify game cache integrity). There was a time where Steam changed update methods and it needed to rebuild the format (think this was for Source games only) so perhaps it was that?
Might be something to do with certification? No idea honestly.
If you download a game that had lots of updates on the 360 does it download the newest built the first time or does it download the game and thne patch it?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Pretty sure it downloads the game and then the patch, but then it didn't prompt me to download any patches when I booted up Halo 3 the other day and I hadn't played it since '09...
Microsoft only allows it for more important games. And yes, you'll still be downloading one patch which is in essence 3-4 different patches packed together and hidden as one unless it just keeps patching the same thing. The one true solution is auto-downloading and background-downloading of patches, not forcing extra work on the developer or forcing them to minimize their patches.
Miles Quaritch
Member
fair enough, I personally don't agree that it's forcing more work on developers, I'd say it's being more gamer friendly in its approach to smaller or fewer patches/updates. I do agree that auto downloading is the future. Now I just have to figure out why it didn't download the patches for Starhawk automatically....
sono
Gold Member
I think one of us may not be understanding the other, in case my post wasnt clear (sorry)
scenario: you just purchased game "brilliant"
the latest version of brilliant is 1.04. which is 1.4G, around the same size as version 1.0 of brilliant
You download brilliant having got purchased it, PSN sends you 1.0 as a 1.4G download.
You then download 3 patches each of 256M each to get to 1.04 versoin.
total downloaded to get to 1.04 = 1.4 + (3*.25) = 2.15G.
If you had on the other hand been given 1.04 as a base install you would have saved the additional 0.75G through Sony network and the internet and gained the playtime to download and install that extra 0.75G
It actually doesn't have to be free for them to do it. If there's a scenario where you would have to be able to display the content even though you haven't bought it (like a LBP costume or a DLC car in a racing game that someone you play with online has) then it must be patched in instead of downloaded as DLC. That's why LBP had a ton of updates.
Metalmurphy
Member
Oh ok, you're talking about the digital version already being on the final version. I wasn't talking about that, but just the update process itself.
That on itself I believe is another issue related to certifications.
It had its slow moments, like when you had to sit there waiting after asking something to background download, but current iteration is crap and runs like molasses. The funny thing is a few games still use that old store UI if you open up the store in-game, so it's still there, hiding in a corner somewhere. DOA5U uses it, and I also believe Uncharted 3 does too. The sad thing is if you play some older games with an in-game link to the store, the game will open the store for you, which requires you to exit the game. If you want to return to the game you have to restart it, which makes for a horrific user experience.
On PS4 everything is supposed to be integrated into the main system UI (like on 360) instead of running in a separate app, so it should be much better to use.
Normal DLC will show up. I'm talking about the exclusive DLC you get via the purchase that aren't available on PSN Store. For example I got a bunch of Avatars and 30 mins DLC for getting Beyond. Not that I personally care about them, but the download list would be the only way to get them at this point since they're not available to buy seperately
Iacobellis
Junior Member
I hope so. Everything on PS3 was added after the fact, so it feels very fragmented. Certain games don't track people you've played with, some don't have Trophies, and some don't know to pause when you've opened up the XMB. I remember how in the early days, games would have to implement their own view of the Friends List and messaging system. I think the first Resistance also had a shortcut to the audio devices menu if you needed to adjust settings on your headset. It was a very poor experience pre-2.40.
Even something simple such as sending cross-game invites or joining a friend's match is done on a game by game basis, whereas it's been embedded into the 360 Dashboard since 20005.
The Mana Legend
Banned
When I got LittleBigPlanet 2 on PS+, it took over two days to download and install all of the updates and the game itself for it.
It was ridiculous, and the insane download, updates, and install times are one of the reasons why I do not play most of my PS+ games.
It was ridiculous, and the insane download, updates, and install times are one of the reasons why I do not play most of my PS+ games.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Starhawk without the internet sounds like a grand old time.
Tizoc
Member
If it's a disc game, just play it and when asked to update, press O then quit the game. It should get its download update/patch when it auto updates.
Metalmurphy
Member
Probably about as grand as playing it with an outdated version.
Also, 2 days? lol Something definitely wrong on your end.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Gran Turismo: The thread.
This was the worst offender by far, until the goty edition came out.
I guess sometimes the same assets need to be replaced again, and other times minor changes to files are made, but require the complete file to overwrite them.
This was the worst offender by far, until the goty edition came out.
I guess sometimes the same assets need to be replaced again, and other times minor changes to files are made, but require the complete file to overwrite them.
Bolded sentences, exactly why I mentioned to use the general search, because as you know, there is no download list search function. It's the only way to search for anything on the store. It's not like you can do it any other way. And if that didn't do anything, then yeah, you have to scroll through hundreds of items to find the stuff you want. I didn't say it was optimal, just that you don't really have a choice. As stated in a previous post, I do want Sony to have a search and sort functions for the downloadlist.
I own several PS3s, one launch 60gb and one slim, so yeah, I have used the search function, but not very often, since I barely have to redownload stuff.
But I understand that some stuff can't be found, a good example is mentioned by Shahed, exclusive DLC to special editions that can't be purchased.
Caayn
Member
I take it that you never buy games anymore? It's idiotic that there still isn't a decent patch system, in terms of speed, on the PS3.
It's pretty ridiculous when you download something off the PSN store and then it downloads patches and crap for another 15 minutes (or longer, depending on your connection speed), installs them, etc before you can actually play them. Would be nice if the PSN versions of the games had the latest updates already included.
dragonbane
Member
It can get pretty ridiculous yeah. Uncharted already annoyed the fuck out of me.
BTW where the hell are your Beyond impressions
?
BTW where the hell are your Beyond impressions
?The verify game cache reads every file, compares it to a checksum and re-downloads what's not matching.
The update isn't doing that, it just overwrites files that need to be changed. AFAIK the update process uses the appmanifest acf files as reference and assumes nothing is corrupted or tinkered with.
walltowall
Member
I feel the same. I downloaded Battlefield 3 from PS+ and still had to sit through a patch when I booted it up for the first time. You would think that they would give you the most updated version.
What's just as terrible is that the PSN games don't have the updated version or worse yet doesn't add to patches to your download queue with the full game. Only when you boot it up is when you'll be hit with the surprise.
PS+ is wonderful in that regard though. Solves my major annoyances with it
PS+ is wonderful in that regard though. Solves my major annoyances with it
The Mana Legend
Banned
No, 50 mb/s download speed at a University. LBP2 has a ridiculous number of patches and updates, and Sony's awful download speeds makes it unbearable.
Metalmurphy
Member
Doesn't take more then 2 hours on mine, so yeah... And 50MB/s (I'm assuming its bytes) for an Uni doesn't seem all that much tbh.
The Mana Legend
Banned
lol wut
Patching like Steam does is slightly more complicated on a console. With Steam, the client can know all the files it has downloaded for a game, which files were changed by which patches, which files were removed, everything, because all those files are by necessity tied to the client. On this generation of consoles, the 360 got away with a pretty simple solution by initially putting limitations on what files could be patched, since the console does not know what is on the disc. This together with patch size limitations meant the system knew about which files were replaced each time and could do a micro-Steam solution for those files.
The PS3 has had a much looser patch system since day one and it's not certain they could do the same thing, and if you've started patching games on the looser system it's impossible to tie those together into a new tighter system without breaking older patches. It should work out this generation, especially if all games are digital and they know which files have changed to offer the latest version of the game for download at all times rather than having you download an old version and patch it up to date.
The PS3 has had a much looser patch system since day one and it's not certain they could do the same thing, and if you've started patching games on the looser system it's impossible to tie those together into a new tighter system without breaking older patches. It should work out this generation, especially if all games are digital and they know which files have changed to offer the latest version of the game for download at all times rather than having you download an old version and patch it up to date.
Metalmurphy
Member
What's so funny? You think 50MB/s for an entire University is good? oO
And again, I can have the whole thing ready to play in less then 2 hours, so if it takes 2 days for you it's kinda an obvious where the problem lies. Not to mention if it actually took 2 days on norm, don't you think more people would have spoken up?
Patches don't have to install on a 360. That's why it is better. And they removed (or raised) the patch size limit a while ago.