• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dark Souls II - First review

Bedlam

Member
If anything the game will be definitely harder to master than the original. You're more open to damage and have to level up stamina and equipment load individually. No need to worry about all the convenient stuff added into the game.
I don't think I will take your word for that.
 

krakov

Member
Don't have time to read it all but:


Dark Souls series is still hard, right ?
They didn't add a waypoint system, radar and health-regen and things like that, right ?

They added all of that and optional QTE to finish the game, but you don't HAVE to use it if you don't want to so it's all fine.
 
You're right, thinking is a chore. Combat is a chore too, so I hope that there are many weapons where I can just mash buttons since I lack the required patience and pattern recognition to overcome it. I also hope that in the next game they just do away with the health bars. What's the point of them anyway? They just lead to death, and dying isn't fun. I don't want to die, it's too inconvenient. It's bad enough that I have to touch a bonfire whenever I want to go anywhere now. Too much of a chore, and I hope that the next game is a little more linear so I don't have to worry about getting lost and having to touch a bonfire.

Maybe you should take a leaf out of your avatars book.

There is a difference between game mechanics and completely backing you into a corner because you specced your character wrong, you shouldn't have to start over because of something they never explained to you.
 
Let's not celebrate a game losing a huge part of it's gameplay identity, for the sake of attracting a wider crowd to it. The Souls series was one of these few franchises left that punished it's players for bad decisions, and mistakes. But that's gone now. There were dozens of action RPGs you could have played, if you wanted an easier, less forgiving experience. Now Souls is about to change into a game it isn't really meant to be.

It's not about the respec item. It's about the philosophy behind it. It it seeped through the core of the game itself. For me Dark Souls was not just about the gameplay, or the visuals, or the art design. It was about how it felt. Everything had weight. Every decision was permanent. Every spent soul meant something. Even killing a NPC meant he/she was gone from the game. The game made me feel like I was part of a real living world.

But now FROM accommodated the people who didn't try to understand how Souls was unique. Now you can respec. Now you can bring back dead NPCs to life. Now you can zip around the map from the get-go. There's nothing permanent or earned. The very core tenets of the game have changed from what made Dark Souls, Dark Souls into just another action RPG.

That's what angers people. Not the fact that some people will respec all the time. The fact that the entire game is seemingly now built around ideas like it.

You are making a tremendous amount of assumptions based on nothing. Let me ask you this: if this respec item was available only in NG+ and then only once per NG+, does it invalidate all of your character decisions? Does it turn Dark Souls into just another ARPG?

I refuse to believe that something like a respec or waypoint system cannot be intelligently implemented into the game without undermining what makes it great. Yes, it can be bad, as it was in D3, and I think that trend does warrant some concern from people who disliked how it affects games, but that doesn't mean you can damn a game for simply stating it's trying a thing that others have done poorly before you even know anything past the fact that it exists.

You know what I think? I think the worst part of the Souls games is the fact that some of the most elemental facets of your character, things that deeply effected the way you played and how well you performed, were obfuscated from the player and never properly explained. Does streamlining things like that cause the game to lose part of it's identity? Does it turn it into "just another ARPG?"

I believe the systems in DS can be improved upon. I think it's reasonable that an earlier fast travel system, if implemented well, can make the game better. Same with respeccing and players who want primarily PvP. After thousands of hours, I promise you it's hard to derive enjoyment out of running through the game for the umpteenth time to try out a specific spec. Respecing can make that experience better and still not undermine the consequence of player desicions, if it is designed to do so.

It's frustrating because, reading posts like yours, I get the impression that any change that improves the game from systemic perspective is going to be met with backlash from people who want FROM to just make the same game again. I'd hate for a designer to feel limited by their audience clamoring for status quo when they feel that they could improve upon their design, and I'm glad game development is such that paranoid opinions like yours don't reach developer's ears before they have a chance to try it.

I have faith that the people that made the first two games so incredible and unique can do it again while making the experience better overall. Change is good.
 

Bedlam

Member
There is a difference between game mechanics and completely backing you into a corner because you specced your character wrong, you shouldn't have to start over because of something they never explained to you.
Good thing then that in the Souls games you can't really spec your character wrong preventing you from finishing the game.
 

puzl

Banned
One things for sure, I CAN'T WAIT to invade all these dark souls crybabies who whine about every aspect of the game not being tailored to their own personal vision for how they want it. These guys are usually the absolute worst players too and send the most hilarious hate mail. Here is my PS3 hate mail collection. The PC is even better. I can't wait to see what DkS2 brings!
 

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
So, uh, this respec option is an item right? It's not like there's a button staring you in the face on the hud the entire time.

Just....drop the item. No more 'thinking' about it.
 

Bedlam

Member
LOL! That may calm down the elitist fans a little bit.
Why is it that some of you can't comprehend the fact, that this isn't about being "hardcore," being an "elitist" or playing the "real" DS? This is simply about my own, personal enjoyment of the game and yet, whenever someone raises concerns about the convenience features, guys like you spout the same completely false hardcore/elitist/realDS bs?

These guys are usually the absolute worst players to...

Sure, if you say so. Did you discuss the game with the people you received hatemail from? I mean, you seem to know what they think about it for some reason.

Why are people whining about Soul Vessels then?
Because I still want permanence. Decisions should matter in terms of shaping my character.
 
Good thing then that in the Souls games you can't really spec your character wrong preventing you from finishing the game.

Why are people whining about respec items then?

I don't get the elitist circle jerk who play these games and tell people they are doing it wrong because they didn't die 1000000000 times or are using cheesy items.

If you don't like an item or a feature then don't use it, I will play the game however I want to.
 

Gbraga

Member
I need to get more into the pvp aspect of Dark Souls II, the only times I fight another player is when I get invaded, and I always have a blast, but every time I try to invade either with the red or blue thingie, it always fails.
 

Garcia

Member
Being able to play around with your build without spending several dozens of hours of prep to get there doesn't take from the challenge of the game, it just gives me a bit more respect as a player, and that's something that I find truly valuable in the series.

Finally someone who truly understands the meaning of such changes.

Why do you guys think From decided to completely ignore the purists? Because you're in the minority who loved to death the worst designed aspects of the game. They want their series to keep evolving and be much better overall experiences.
 

soontroll

Banned
One things for sure, I CAN'T WAIT to invade all these dark souls crybabies who whine about every aspect of the game not being tailored to their own personal vision for how they want it. These guys are usually the absolute worst players too and send the most hilarious hate mail. Here is my PS3 hate mail collection. The PC is even better. I can't wait to see what DkS2 brings!

I'm pretty sure those people will just play offline. Stop being so molest.
 

puzl

Banned
Sure, if you say so. Did you discuss the game with the people you received hatemail from? I mean, you seem to know what they think about it for some reason.

It's hard to get much sense from people who's vocabulary consists of "FUCKING BACKSTABBING FAGGOT" etc..

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Here are a list of rules to follow when playing Dark Souls:
 
I couldn't care less if someone decides to use the respec option in their own game, so long as it's limited to a single use so you don't have a million guys out there changing their builds to mimic the current PVP trend of the day. I'd like to fight a variety of builds in the late-game, not a tidal wave of giant dads.

I'll be carefully planning my build from the get-go so I can't imagine any scenario where I'll ever need to use it.
 

Bedlam

Member
It's hard to get much sense from people who's vocabulary consists of "FUCKING BACKSTABBING FAGGOT" etc..

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Here are a list of rules to follow when playing Dark Souls:
So according to you I must be one of those people, too. Because I don't want these convenience features, I must totally suck at the game and spam inane hatemail to everyone who (easily) beats me.

I don't get the elitist circle jerk who play these games and tell people they are doing it wrong because they didn't die 1000000000 times or are using cheesy items.
Can you guys please stop calling us "elitists"? This has nothing whatsoever to do with being elitist.

Meanwhile, one of the users calling others "elitists" chooses to brag with his online pvp achievements. Cool.
 
One things for sure, I CAN'T WAIT to invade all these dark souls crybabies who whine about every aspect of the game not being tailored to their own personal vision for how they want it. These guys are usually the absolute worst players too and send the most hilarious hate mail. Here is my PS3 hate mail collection. The PC is even better. I can't wait to see what DkS2 brings!

You're great. So funny. and clever. I really envy you. You must know that.
In fact you just posted on your personal blog all the hatemail you received to cuddle yourself. I would do the same, really...
 

puzl

Banned
I couldn't care less if someone decides to use the respec option in their own game, so long as it's limited to a single use so you don't have a million guys out there changing their builds to mimic the current PVP trend of the day. I'd like to fight a variety of builds in the late-game, not a tidal wave of giant dads.

Don't you see how silly it is what you just wrote? The whole point of respec'ing is to give players the opportunity to change and experiment with their builds. If anything, it will lead to more interesting matches.

Also Giant Dads with Zweis are usually terrible, terrible players. That setup is just asking to be roll bs'd. Thankfully, with the new respec option, they will be able to learn the error of their way and change their build to something that actually has PVP potential :)
 
Can you guys please stop calling us "elitists"? This has nothing whatsoever to do with being elitist.

Stop acting like it then.

All I see from people who love the game and have finished it is how other people are "playing it wrong" and everyone should suffer the backwards game mechanics just because they did.
 

krakov

Member
I need to get more into the pvp aspect of Dark Souls II, the only times I fight another player is when I get invaded, and I always have a blast, but every time I try to invade either with the red or blue thingie, it always fails.

If the red stone fails, it's likely due to your level or the area you are trying to invade. Could also be a connection problem I guess. The blue stone will fail time and time again though, I don't know if it's broken or if it's hard to find actual targets.

To invade with the red stone, choose an area where players are likely to be above your level. If all fails, try the forest.
 

Vazra

irresponsible vagina leak
You're great. So funny. and clever. I really envy you. You must know that.
In fact you just posted on your personal blog all the hatemail you received to cuddle yourself. I would do the same, really...

He should have done a bow before backstabbing people to death so they know he backstabbed them with respect. Remember there is also some sort of honor code with some invaders and doing taunts before fighting. LOL
 

Gbraga

Member
It's hard to get much sense from people who's vocabulary consists of "FUCKING BACKSTABBING FAGGOT" etc..

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Here are a list of rules to follow when playing Dark Souls:

Agreed. I received hate mail once because I didn't bow or whatever, the dude invaded me and was trying to prevent me from advancing in my game (it was my first playthrough) and he wants me to follow his rules in order to have a gentlemen's duel? Fuck off.

I see you, we're fighting.

Yesterday I got backstabbed like 3 or 4 times when I was invaded and I wasn't mad, I was actually quite impressed with his/her ability, it was like a couple of rolls and I was being backstabbed, really fast.

Sunlight Blade never fails though and I just needed to connect 3 hits. :')
 

RK9039

Member
I will be respeccing my character every 30 minutes, use voice chat, play with my friends only, and also I will use the bonfire warp straight away.

Oh, no, that's how ruff ryders roll [DMX Ruff Ryders anthem 1998].
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
One things for sure, I CAN'T WAIT to invade all these dark souls crybabies who whine about every aspect of the game not being tailored to their own personal vision for how they want it. These guys are usually the absolute worst players too and send the most hilarious hate mail. Here is my PS3 hate mail collection. The PC is even better. I can't wait to see what DkS2 brings!

Omg don't post my messages those are supposed to be private1!
 

Bedlam

Member
Stop acting like it then.

All I see from people who love the game and have finished it is how other people are "playing it wrong" and everyone should suffer the backwards game mechanics just because they did.

What you call a backwards game mechanics is crucial to my enjoyment with the game. What many of you call convenience features is seriously hurting my enjoyment with many modern games. Why is that so hard to understand? People like different things. Am I an elitist for not enjoying these things? Am I an elitist for not liking Diablo 3 even though I was a fan of the series before?
 

puzl

Banned
So according to you I must be one of those people, too. Becaue I don't want these convenience features, I must totally suck at the game and spam inane hatemail to everyone who (easily) beats me.

So don't use them. Respec is an option, just like everything else in the game. Show some restraint and avoid it. Why does it matter to you what other people choose to use in their own game? I can understand it if they're cheating and explicitly ruining your game, but they're not. They'll be using a feature FROM specifically designed to be used. Stop crying.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Don't you see how silly it is what you just wrote? The whole point of respec'ing is to give players the opportunity to change and experiment with their builds. If anything, it will lead to more interesting matches.

Also Giant Dads with Zweis are usually terrible, terrible players. That setup is just asking to be roll bs'd. Thankfully, with the new respec option, they will be able to learn the error of their way and change their build to something that actually has PVP potential :)

Off topic: you got any tips for a PvP noob such as myself? i get beasted all the time.
 

Bedlam

Member
So don't use them. Respec is an option, just like everything else in the game. Show some restraint and avoid it. Why does it matter to you what other people choose to use in their own game? I can understand it if they're cheating and explicitly ruining your game, but they're not. They'll be using a feature FROM specifically designed to be used. Stop crying.
Someone else mentioned it earlier: let's assume you can beat the last boss with an easy QTE. But it's optional. How'd you like that?
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
For those of us who play Dark Souls exclusively for the PVP once we're done with PVE, then re-speccing is an absolute time saver. When I built my 50 faith, fully buffed 9xWOG build to terrorise people online with, it took me days to go through to NG+2 and collect everything I needed. Sure you can call it an investment etc.. but considering I've put around 2000 hours into the game already, I don't particularly enjoy speed running the PVE game for the 927873248923th time, just to tailor a single build around a unique style of play.
You'd still need to go to NG++ to get all those WoG to spam with. I don't really see how respec'ing changes that.

It's just a means to an end. Now we can re-spec, I can change builds whenever I feel like it, keeping the game fresh, exciting, and open to experimentation.
Sounds like it'd be a pain in the ass to respec every time you wanna switch builds. I'd rather just have more save files.

Also:
When I built my 50 faith, fully buffed 9xWOG build to terrorise people online with,
One things for sure, I CAN'T WAIT to invade all these dark souls crybabies who whine about every aspect of the game not being tailored to their own personal vision for how they want it. These guys are usually the absolute worst players too and send the most hilarious hate mail. Here is my PS3 hate mail collection. The PC is even better. I can't wait to see what DkS2 brings!
Also Giant Dads with Zweis are usually terrible, terrible players. That setup is just asking to be roll bs'd. Thankfully, with the new respec option, they will be able to learn the error of their way and change their build to something that actually has PVP potential :)
image.php


lol u r so badass
 
What you call a backwards game mechanics is crucial to my enjoyment with the game. What many of you call convenience features ruins my enjoyment with the game that have them. Why is that so hard to understand? People like different things. Am I an elitist for not enjoying these things? Am I an elitist for not liking Diablo 3 even though I was a fan of the series before?

Yeah I'm sure having a super rare re-spec item is going to ruin your game, you could......I dunno........just not use them?

Why would you limit the audience for a game just because it hurts your feelings, would you rather the game franchise die and wither away because people don't want to deal with the "game mechanics"?
 

puzl

Banned
Someone else mentioned it earlier: let's assume you can beat the last boss with an easy QTE. But it's optional. How'd you like that?

Not my concern. Some people like a challenge and others choose the path of least resistance. Again, how they choose to play a video game has no relevance to how I choose to play it.
 

RK9039

Member
lol.

After the DLC inclusion, Gwyn is toast either way. They should've buffed him when you're playing DLC.

Okay, let's rephrase it: every boss can be beaten with one easy QTE. But it's optional.

Simple.

I would use the QTE. Have fun wasting time.
 

Bedlam

Member
Simple.

I would use the QTE.
And you don't think that possibility takes something away from the game?

I'd probably do it, too btw. It's just natural to go the way of least resistance, especially in the Souls games. That's just how the mind works.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
lol.

After the DLC inclusion, Gwyn is toast either way. They should've buffed him when you're playing DLC.

Okay, let's rephrase it: every boss can be beaten with one easy QTE. But it's optional.

You make very convincing arguments. Hypotheticals so far down the slippery slope they're already past moot. Good job.
 
Top Bottom