ZeezbruhTV
Member
This is the thing that gets me. But hey maybe they juiced it up in D2 *watches strike gameplay and see's the same boring/bad/non existent AI. Literally Halo: CE elite AI is better than anything i've seen in destiny 1 or 2.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
To the "Destiny 2 looks like DLC" crowd. Why?
- Thread starter StalkerUKCG
- Start date
This is the thing that gets me. But hey maybe they juiced it up in D2 *watches strike gameplay and see's the same boring/bad/non existent AI. Literally Halo: CE elite AI is better than anything i've seen in destiny 1 or 2.
They spent an entire hour going about every single key point regarding changes and additions made to the game. I know there's little to see at the moment to attach these bullet points to but honestly since d1 launch bungie has improved upon a lot of the mistakes made, and for the fans D2 seems like a continuation of that. I'm not sure the burned players are even the audience bungie is trying to save face for so I can see the complaints. I just don't think they're warranted, yet.
Yes, and Cabal strikes will feel Cabally
Hive will look Hivvy
and Fallen will look Falleny?
Each race has its own aesthetics, feel and function that is rooted in its culture and lore - and once again I have to ask, do you lot just want a new IP, because with each new hot take it feels that way.
lets completely ignore the massive cabal drill section and the fact that the last boss room while distinctly vex, is on a much larger scale than a boss encounter area than they've ever designed before. games with long overarching stories have enemy races with architecture that lends you to know you're fighting a specific type of enemy. the areas AROUND the buildings are completely different. the color palette in the strike was something new. it didn't look like vex on venus, aside from the indoor areas where it was clearly vex. no one complained that forerunner buildings in halo looked like forerunner buildings. they enjoyed the massive vistas and skyboxes around them.
lets also ignore the fact that besides the strike, every other gameplay area we've seen doesn't look even remotely similar to another venus, another mars, or the cosmodrome again. it's like people are trying to be reductive and ignorant just to suit their argument. the same goes for the "no new enemies!" shit. there isn't a new race of enemies, yet, from what we've seen. we also have seen a single strike and story mission. we have, however seen 3 new types of enemies for a race in that strike, and a bunch of new enemy models. people just looking for reasons to be irate or something
Muscle Wizard
Banned
Don't know if this was posted yet, but Kotaku recently published a podcast of their first reaction to the Destiny 2 reveal, with Destiny Moses Jason Schreier weighing in.
http://kotaku.com/our-immediate-reactions-to-destiny-2-1795385151
Here's an excerpt
So coupled with the reused animations, weapons, classes, and other features along with other things known to have been planned for DLC that has backslide for two years into this game, there's good cause for people so disappointed with the reveal.
An issue I have with it is that Destiny is only good because it was first. It was the first MMO-lite loot-crazy "games as service" shooter to really hit the scene and I could put up with it because it was the only one. Now more and more games are expanding the niche like The Division, Ghost Recon: Wildlands, and EA's Project Dylan, but Bungie hasn't signaled any real renovation to Destiny as a series. While the other games aren't as big as Destiny yet, Bungie has ignored the things that were actually innovative about them and decided to keep trucking along with the same setup, despite the decline in players.
The only thing I cared they kept in Destiny was the shooting. Just the literal aiming your gun and pulling the trigger, which worked really well. The rest I felt was in need of a massive rethinking and that did not happen.
http://kotaku.com/our-immediate-reactions-to-destiny-2-1795385151
Here's an excerpt
So coupled with the reused animations, weapons, classes, and other features along with other things known to have been planned for DLC that has backslide for two years into this game, there's good cause for people so disappointed with the reveal.
An issue I have with it is that Destiny is only good because it was first. It was the first MMO-lite loot-crazy "games as service" shooter to really hit the scene and I could put up with it because it was the only one. Now more and more games are expanding the niche like The Division, Ghost Recon: Wildlands, and EA's Project Dylan, but Bungie hasn't signaled any real renovation to Destiny as a series. While the other games aren't as big as Destiny yet, Bungie has ignored the things that were actually innovative about them and decided to keep trucking along with the same setup, despite the decline in players.
The only thing I cared they kept in Destiny was the shooting. Just the literal aiming your gun and pulling the trigger, which worked really well. The rest I felt was in need of a massive rethinking and that did not happen.
That's very reductive to look at these complaints and think this. That's like talking to someone post MK 3 "Of course Sub-Zero looks similar to Reptile and Noob Saibot! They are Ninjas! Maybe you just hate having new characters!"
Aesthetic can be similar but totally look different still. You can see something very Frank Lloyd Wright in every Frank Lloyd Wright building but they definitely have their own identity and look.
This is literally a textbook example of hyperbole.
The Vault of Glass looks different than the Black Garden, which looks different than the Nexus Mind, which looks different than the new strike.
Its not like every Vex area looks the same, theyre all different variations on the Vex aesthetic.
Its kind of insulting to talk about them like theyre mere palatte swaps like Reptile to Sub Zero.
Which enemy would you say boasts better AI?
The Driver
Member
Vex environment aside, I'm more annoyed that the boss is just another Gate Lord/Atheon/Minotaur with the exact same animations and attacks from D1. The "3 stages" are okay but the boss is still a dumb bullet sponge that we've killed hundreds of times.
Gradly
Member
I'm not into these types of games but here's my thought.
I thought Destiny was gonna be a Game as a Service for the whole 10 year deal with Activision, where they introduce expansions and improve the game. I was surprised there was D2 in the works.
But now when the D2 shown, I didn't feel it like a new entry, it felt just like, what I already expected, an expansion.
Halo has an iconic character with a focus on story, COD games have different settings and time periods. I think Destiney lacks that
I thought Destiny was gonna be a Game as a Service for the whole 10 year deal with Activision, where they introduce expansions and improve the game. I was surprised there was D2 in the works.
But now when the D2 shown, I didn't feel it like a new entry, it felt just like, what I already expected, an expansion.
Halo has an iconic character with a focus on story, COD games have different settings and time periods. I think Destiney lacks that
I assure you the game doesn't care about my comparison.
The point was exaggerated but it remains all the same, in a level about time robots they must certainly have far more going on for them than robotic angled ruins and some gates. Maybe a Vex ship. Maybe the interior of a giant Vex we fight to shut down. Why can't we do things like that? Things that would be very different but still clearly show off the Vex flair we all know. Things that are very within he really of possibility.
If anything the division and wildlands proved to me or reminded me how great Destiny really is. Because neither of those games brought the fun and great shooting like Destiny did. I'd rather Bungie iterate on Destiny than try to incorporate things from the division especially.
spazchicken
Member
I thought the graphics would look better. I mean, the first one was possible on the PS360 and looked almost exactly like the PS4 and XB1 versions.
Destiny 2 doesn't look leagues better than the first one, imo. I'm talking poly count, lighting, textures and animations. If I didn't know and you told me it was another expansion to the first game, I would have believed you.
I think this is people's problem with Splatoon 2 as well.
Destiny 2 doesn't look leagues better than the first one, imo. I'm talking poly count, lighting, textures and animations. If I didn't know and you told me it was another expansion to the first game, I would have believed you.
I think this is people's problem with Splatoon 2 as well.
anothertech
Member
They definitely could have refined the UI a little more, so it didn't look exactly like the original. That's probably all it would have taken to hush the 'looks like dlc' talk.
titanfall > titanfall 2 = "too many changes! you fucked it up!"
mirrors edge > mirrors edge 2 = "too many changes! you fucked it up!"
destiny > destiny 2 = "not enough changes! you fucked it up!"
¯\_(ツ_/¯
Titanfall didn't need major changes. The basic gameplay systems were already really good in the first one. It just needed a ton more content. But they went and changed a bunch of stuff. For the worse.
Destiny needed major changes in basic gameplay (in MY opinion) and I'm not really seeing them. Destiny 1 felt aged in gameplay (shooting, AI).
What in the world.
I agree with Jason, in that the biggest weakness of Destiny was the fact that it didn't feel like a world at all. The biggest improvement in this sequel could be right over there and we haven't seen it yet.
Well its not like this only happens to destiny 2 @Op
For example i think there were similiar voices with splatoon 2
Difference is because Destiny is far more played and activsion is one of the "bad guys" in gaming apparently, there are far more people who voicing there opinion
For example i think there were similiar voices with splatoon 2
Difference is because Destiny is far more played and activsion is one of the "bad guys" in gaming apparently, there are far more people who voicing there opinion
Muffdraul
Member
Consistency is good. A new alien race or two would also be good.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
That crowd strikes me as people who have either:
1) Never played the game and only seen it from afar.
or
2) Played a bit of vanilla D1 but didn't like it (it was lacking in many areas back then I must admit) and never partook in TTK and the massive improvements over the last 3 years.... vanilla was lacking, and they seem to think that anything like vanilla (at a glance, it could look similar I guess) is a bad thing.
Personally, I think what they've done looks amazing and my hype couldn't be higher - as a note, I'm a vanilla/DB veteran of about 1500 hours originally, then a returned player with Rise of Iron (about 400 hours in this stint so far, loving the additions since vanilla).
On a side note, I think Jason's viewpoint is way off, but then again I often disagree with his opinions (for some reason).v
100% agree with you on this mate, I did 100 or so hours with Division and only a handful of Wildlands, both have reminded me how good Destiny is (now), and why it's so popular with it's community.
1) Never played the game and only seen it from afar.
or
2) Played a bit of vanilla D1 but didn't like it (it was lacking in many areas back then I must admit) and never partook in TTK and the massive improvements over the last 3 years.... vanilla was lacking, and they seem to think that anything like vanilla (at a glance, it could look similar I guess) is a bad thing.
Personally, I think what they've done looks amazing and my hype couldn't be higher - as a note, I'm a vanilla/DB veteran of about 1500 hours originally, then a returned player with Rise of Iron (about 400 hours in this stint so far, loving the additions since vanilla).
On a side note, I think Jason's viewpoint is way off, but then again I often disagree with his opinions (for some reason).v
100% agree with you on this mate, I did 100 or so hours with Division and only a handful of Wildlands, both have reminded me how good Destiny is (now), and why it's so popular with it's community.
MrChowderClams
Member
I think a lot of the confusion and expectation came from the marketing and press buzz before the reveal, which focused quite a bit on "Rebooting Destiny" and "A fresh start for Destiny", when in the end it seems like it's less of a reboot and more of an evolution.
I've been playing Destiny since the Alpha and to be honest it does feel like an iterative step forward (which is great!), but it was surprising to see that so much of the game seems very close to it's predecessor, when it sounded like it was going to be this completely revamped and renewed experience.
I dont disagree, but expecting Bungie to show all their cards in an hour reveal would be silly. So I am reserving judgement until closer to launch.
I have my disappointments well documented, not keen on 4V4, lack of 60fps and dedis.
My main concern is size and scope and content. Deliver on that and I will keep coming back.
I played a lot of games this gen with pointless open world, sand boxy bullshit padding and filler. Yet, Destiny, the one game that may actually benefit from this often shitty design philosophy really shies away from it - I wish Bungie would stop holding back so much.
ISee
Member
What's the problem with people calling it an expansion/dlc in the first place? MMOs do this all the time. A ~$60 admission price is normal. FF14 - Stormblood + monthly subsciption is $50-$60. You have to level up again, you have to get new gear because your previous uber gear is nothing in comparison to the new stuff, there are new storys, visuals are sometimes better, classes/skill systems are redone, there is sometimes a new race/class, there are new locations/areas/dungeon and sometimes a new feature or two...
In my book Destiny 2 fulfills all requirements to be called a typical mmo expansion. With one big difference, your old character/gear is gone. Which is a shame for old players, I understand your pain.
In my book Destiny 2 fulfills all requirements to be called a typical mmo expansion. With one big difference, your old character/gear is gone. Which is a shame for old players, I understand your pain.
Mass Effect Andromeda and Battleborn both tried to do exactly that, along with GTA online, Payday and The Division/Wildlands. Xenoblade X was restructured partway through development to add a character creator and shared online. Meanwhile we got Triforce Heroes, Federation Force and Lost reavers. Thats at least 10 Destiny esque games that have been released so far. Not including Steep who's jump in multiplayer is very similar to Destiny's patrol missons.
Bioware is working on another Destiny clone in their project codenamed Dylan, Microsoft has Sea of Thieves (Destiny on Boats) due soon. The only major publisher seemingly not working on a Destiny-Like game is Sony. However Succer Punch has been working hard on a new IP since 2013 that is due to be announced soon.
It seems like making a Destiny-Like game is really hard, and no one else has gotten close yet to what Bungie has accomplished.
Keeping the Char (race, look and gender) will be possible. Gear is gone, sure, because Gary.
Link ?
This mixed with them making development changes a year from release, and then supposedly cutting content that was mentioned in the leaks last September and moving it to DLC.. yea fool me once, geez.
titanfall > titanfall 2 = "too many changes! you fucked it up!"
mirrors edge > mirrors edge 2 = "too many changes! you fucked it up!"
destiny > destiny 2 = "not enough changes! you fucked it up!"
¯\_(ツ
Titanfall and Mirror's Edge are both games that have a lot of love in the community. Of course no one wanted changes.
Destiny was considered a failure by many at launch, and still a disappointment down the line.
You're comparing awesome apples to disappointing oranges.
D2 looks the same as D1 because D2 is the same as D1. If a business model works, why change it.
Many people hated Alien Isolation as they found it was slow, boring and hard but if they released AI2 just with new levels and a new story, I'd be more than happy as I loved AI. Horses for courses.
As for D1 and now D2, I don't see what all the hype is about, I thought D1 was boring af and I hate games with bullet sponge enemies.
The only differences here which are a let down are the technical changes they could of made, the biggest being the stupid 30fps limit.
Many people hated Alien Isolation as they found it was slow, boring and hard but if they released AI2 just with new levels and a new story, I'd be more than happy as I loved AI. Horses for courses.
As for D1 and now D2, I don't see what all the hype is about, I thought D1 was boring af and I hate games with bullet sponge enemies.
The only differences here which are a let down are the technical changes they could of made, the biggest being the stupid 30fps limit.
Reduction at its finest. Destiny more than doubled the sales of Titanfall + Mirror's Edge combined, so it's fairly obvious that it's not a "disappointment" in the grand scale of things. Also, I would argue it has more hardcore fans than both games combined. Just because you thought something was a disappointment does not mean the general public does.
I think it is something worth looking at - this hybrid type of fps, loot, rpg pvp, pve thing with raids is hard to do, ask the makers of The Division.
You remember the Division, it's a good game, but upon release, I could the limitations immediately but people were ready to deem it Destiny-killer and so many threads came and went and then nothing...
D2 gameplay reveal had 500k live views, unreal stuff. There is something there that keeps people coming back, I just wish Bungie had CD Project Red's ethical approach to content - lord knows they have the money and resources.
Expansions usually expand upon the game. If you buy Stormblood you get the content of the original game + Heavenward. With destiny 2 you get only the content at the time of release, as well as any free DLC they might provide. Judging by destiny 1, this free DLC will not amount to much.
I think the expansion model would have been better.
ISee
Member
But the previous content is sometimes also gone. Take WoW:Cataclysm as an example.
Also only FF14 seems to 'force' the previous content like boss-raids/dungeons on new players. Often enough you either begin at a higher level our you just rush through previous zone with a huge boost to experience points.
What I'm trying to say: Previous content is mostly irrelevant once a new expansion arrives and is often enough just a hurdle for new players. I for example had to do a lot of stuff in FF14 before I was allowed to start with heavensward. It made sense story wise, but it was for sure a massive grind.
I think this is pretty key.
Some people are acting like we're being overly critical of Destiny 2 compared to other sequels, but whenever Assassins Creed or CoD phones it in to a comparable degree, they get the exact same reaction here.
If anything is different with Destiny 2 it's not that the criticism is harsher than usual, it's that more people seem to be willing to defend it.
SHAFT MASTER
Banned
No new enemy races, classes, and everything looks so similar. I'll echo all the peeps saying if someone had told me this was destiny I would have believed them.
Yyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn
Wake me up when they actually do something interesting for once. Thought destiny was cool but boy did it get boring as shit real fast. This looks exactly the same.
Yyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn
Wake me up when they actually do something interesting for once. Thought destiny was cool but boy did it get boring as shit real fast. This looks exactly the same.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Failure in many areas at launch, but amazing in it's current state IMO
Destiny's amazing gunplay and mechanics didn't need fixing either: I personally think D1 feels better than TF2 in terms of mechanics (maybe not movement though, definitely in gunplay however).
That's fair enough, I did say at launch, maybe I went too far. I enjoyed my time with Destiny at launch, but I didn't think it was anything special. After playing faster paced shooters I couldn't go back to Destiny because it felt like my character was moving through molasses, meaning I didn't experience the later expansions.
I find games that make big changes to the sequel were never that good in the first place. for example uncharted 1, AC 1.
Also i think peoples expectations on innovations what can be done to games is unreasonable. We've had games for like 40 years yet people still expect something ground-breaking all the time.
Also i think peoples expectations on innovations what can be done to games is unreasonable. We've had games for like 40 years yet people still expect something ground-breaking all the time.
Darkstorne
Member
Pretty much, but the key difference is CoD wasn't an MMO type game, where gamers create a character, build a community, and get attached. So while WoW's expansions implement changes and content far more wide reaching than Destiny 2 is, they also do so in a way that doesn't hinder player progress.
I'm seeing a lot of comments about "content creation overhaul" suggesting some big back end changes to improve content creation speeds made a new game a requirement, and if that turns out to be true and Bungie adds multiple new planets every year from now on, then this will end up as a good move imo. But launching with only four planets, even if one of them is double the size of D1's exploration size (doubling something tiny isn't much to brag about), doesn't fill me with confidence. If this ends up following exactly the same path as D1 did - stuck with these locations and the "expansions" will mostly just add new strikes and raids, not much solo content at all, then I'll just skip this and wait for Destiny 3, because why bother? It would show they have no interest in creating one base game to constantly build upon and grow a community with.
I need to know:
1) Destiny 3 is 4+ years away. Destiny 2 is here to stay.
2) Content will be coming thick and fast. Expansions will actually expand the game this time with at least one new explorable environment/planet in every single update.
If it was like an expansion in WoW i don't think i would be disappointed. WoW expansions add new classes, new enemy races, new skills for existing classes, many and huge new areas, higher level cap and tons of quests, dungeons and raids.
Well let's compare it to legion(WoWs latest expansion):
New areas
Destiny 4
Legion 5
New dungeons:
Legion 10
Destiny ??
New MP Maps:
Legion 0
Destiny ??
Quest system:
Legion added world quests
Destiny 2 seems to add world quests
Level cap:
Legion increased by 10
Destiny has you start at lvl 1 again
Raids:
Legion 1
Destiny 1
New skills
legion, people got the artifact skill i guess
Destiny three subclasses for each class with new skills
New classes
legion demonhunter
Destiny new subclasses
Doesn't seem like much of a difference tbh
Just based off of the gameplay trailer they released it seems exactly like the first game. So much in fact if you put the two together I might not be able to tell the difference. This is what immediately caught my attention when I first saw the gameplay. That's fine I guess, but I expect more from bungie.
dragonelite
Member
If you showed me the new Strike footage i would have thought it would be part of the expansion pack for destiny 1.
Had hoped on a bit more complexity regarding strikes/raids but it seems like you just go in as a team full of dps players.