• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

'Stop Giving Evil Characters Brown Skin'

AzureFlame

AzureFlame

Member
WillyFive said:
The one game that bothered me the most:

284
latest


...she instantly lost her darker skin when she got 'upgraded' to Zelda.

But this has not bothered me in games as much as it has in movies, where you get stuff like this:

c9e.png
Click to expand...

maybe that's just a tan?
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
DryvBy said:
Dark = Absent of Light; Bad Guys. When you're depressed, someone may use an idiom about falling on dark times.

But let's make it about something else.
Click to expand...

This is true. Hence "Dark Link", "Dark Samus", Darth Vader, etc..

That doesn't mean that dark-skinned aren't disproportionately more likely to be villainous, or that this isn't an issue.
 
M

Mael

Member
sanstesy said:
They are a strong, powerful tribe of dark-skinned women. While they were thieves I never thought of them being evil as they also fought against Ganondorf. Nabooru was the one who granted Link access in the Spirit Temple after earning her respect.
Click to expand...

You could say she's one of the good ones...
 
M

Masterspeed

Member
sephi22 said:
I feel like Overwatch is also guilty of this. One of the games primary villains in Reaper is a black/Hispanic hybrid. Orisa, who's supposed to be a killer robot model that was part of the omnic crisis that killed millions has an African accent. Widowmaker is a good white girl gone bad through brainwashing, and they gave her a huge butt and dark skin. She's purple but that's as subtle as you can get without going full blackface. Roadhog is Maori and Junkrat is a dark skinned Aussie (excuse being he charred himself)

The heroes like Mercy, Tracer, Reinhardt, Torbjorn or Soldier 76 are full aryan on the other hand. And this game is supposed to be a bastion of diversity or whatever.
Click to expand...

Okay, just skip out Lucia, Sombra, Symettra, Pharah and Ana.
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
Umbreon's name in Japanese is Blackie.

It's a combination of black and lucky.

Dark type is called evil type in Japan as well.
 
N

NexusCell

Member
sephi22 said:
I feel like Overwatch is also guilty of this. One of the games primary villains in Reaper is a black/Hispanic hybrid. Orisa, who's supposed to be a killer robot model that was part of the omnic crisis that killed millions has an African accent. Widowmaker is a good white girl gone bad through brainwashing, and they gave her a huge butt and dark skin. She's purple but that's as subtle as you can get without going full blackface. Roadhog is Maori and Junkrat is a dark skinned Aussie (excuse being he charred himself)

The heroes like Mercy, Tracer, Reinhardt, Torbjorn or Soldier 76 are full aryan on the other hand. And this game is supposed to be a bastion of diversity or whatever.
Click to expand...

Mei is chinese
D.va is Korean
Lucio is both dark skinned and Brazilian
Pharah is dark skinned and Egyptian
Ana is dark skinned and Egyptian

Nice Cherrypicking there. Good going.

Even then, you ignore Sombra, Symmetra, Hanzo, and Genji.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
sanstesy said:
They are a strong, powerful tribe of dark-skinned women. While they were thieves I never thought of them being evil as they also fought against Ganondorf. Nabooru was the one who granted Link access in the Spirit Temple after earning her respect.
Click to expand...

Again, not a very positive portrayal in OoT even if they weren't played as straight up baddies. Thats how it has come off to me even when i first played it as a kid
 
Y

yanipheonu

Member
There's at least the "villain temporarily turns black" twist on things. Greed in Fullmetal Alchemist gains the black shell because it's pure carbon. A similar thing happens with Sen. Armstrong in Metal Gear Rising, where his skin hardens and looks black in response to physical trauma.

Nanomachines_Son.jpg
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
autoduelist said:
I mean, there is a reason for it, and it's not inherently racist. We're instinctually afraid of the dark. This is ingrained in our ancestral history, lighting fires to keep away the baying wolves. The dark = black, the light of day = white. It's why many major 'gods' from major religions are, or are based on, sun gods.

It's the use of symbols to quickly allow the viewer to understand something is 'evil' [just like 'red' is often used for dangerous due to the color of predatory eyes in the night as well as the color of many poisonous berries]. It is why the bad guys wear black hats, and the good guys wear white hats in westerns, not racism.

Is it misused on occasion? Sure. But it's important to recognize that the use of darker palettes for 'evil' has non-racist roots in our history. [and yes, like I said, it can be abused... but something like 'Dark Samus' is clearly due to non-racist symbology.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this. Really well put.
 
KLoWn

KLoWn

Member
Ganon is has always been green to me, and looking at the screens in this thread, he still is.

sephi22 said:
I feel like Overwatch is also guilty of this. One of the games primary villains in Reaper is a black/Hispanic hybrid. Orisa, who's supposed to be a killer robot model that was part of the omnic crisis that killed millions has an African accent. Widowmaker is a good white girl gone bad through brainwashing, and they gave her a huge butt and dark skin. She's purple but that's as subtle as you can get without going full blackface. Roadhog is Maori and Junkrat is a dark skinned Aussie (excuse being he charred himself)

The heroes like Mercy, Tracer, Reinhardt, Torbjorn or Soldier 76 are full aryan on the other hand. And this game is supposed to be a bastion of diversity or whatever.
Click to expand...
Just...what? I mean, are you actually serious?
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
It's also kinda weird in the case of ULTRA because i don't recall previous versions of evil ryu being dark skinned, only evil sakura.
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
Nostremitus said:
Isn't Ganondorf lighter than the other Gerudo? Like, turning evil made him lighter toned and slightly gray/green.
Click to expand...

Ganondorf, Koume and Kotake, and Twinrova are all unique as far as the green tinge goes, which is likely a reference to their witchcraft and wizardry. The other Gerudo don't seem darker as far as I can tell from the random artwork and screenshots I'm finding though. In fact, they seem likely they could be a tad lighter.

It's also worth nothing Ganondorf got darker in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.
 
C

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
I dunno, the word "dark" always had an evil connotation, thus inherently labelling stuff associated with it evil, sick, frightening etc
 
M

Mael

Member
sanstesy said:
What? In the credits of OoT after Ganondorf is defeated we see Gerudos and the people of Hyrule together celebrating. There is clear line brought of them ever being inherently evil.
Click to expand...

Half of the people who played the game didn't finish it to begin, with so I doubt that many people didn't make the obvious connection.
Especially when in the sequel, gerudos are all pirates who will kill you on sight.
The gypsy undertone is probably a bigger deal than the brown one for OoT's era Gerudo though.
They're absolutely not portrayed as good people.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
KellyNole said:
I would think this. She is on a ship out in the sun. Of course she will have a darker complexion than a princess who sits in a castle who is not outside most of the day.
Click to expand...

why didn't she just keep her tan?

probably because nintendo didn't like the idea of a dark skinned princess

splatoon seems to show they've evolved on the matter, which is a nice step in the right direction

Carl2291 said:
This cries out as reaching for the sake of hits. Trying to generate some kind of controversy to gain hits. There's literally thousands of evil white guys in games. A few having brown skin isn't a problem.

The problem is a lack of POC main protagonists.
Click to expand...

agreed - representation is a problem, this just isnt it
 
K

KillLaCam

Banned
Carl2291 said:
This cries out as reaching for the sake of hits. Trying to generate some kind of controversy to gain hits. There's literally thousands of evil white guys in games. A few having brown skin isn't a problem.

The problem is a lack of POC main protagonists.
Click to expand...
Exactly this
 
T

Taliban Stan

Member
There's mildly an issue if there's more evil brown skinned characters than good brown skinned characters in games. I've no clue if that's the case.

However, I haven't seen a glut of brown skinned villains in games. Especially not main villains. I don't see what the issue is. Surely there can be some. Brown skinned people aren't angels who can only be portrayed in the most positive of lights.
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
I feel like this thread would be much more interesting on OT.

Certainly better than "He's GREEN, doesn't count!" and "lol what, is nighttime racist now?"
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
jon bones said:
why didn't she just keep her tan?

probably because nintendo didn't like the idea of a dark skinned princess

splatoon seems to show they've evolved on the matter, which is a nice step in the right direction



agreed - representation is a problem, this just isnt it
Click to expand...

She got her tan back at the end though. My guess is heavy make-up like those old fashioned aristocrats that would powder their faces till you couldn't see a single blemish.

Tetra's mother is also white, just like the king http://zelda.gamepedia.com/Tetra's_Mother
 
SenkiDala

SenkiDala

Member
WhiteRabbitEXE said:
That was literally never the argument.



This is some damn weak shit yo. This is the kind of bizarre, nonsensical direction folks always take when trying to argue race and sex issues don't exist. Come on man, try harder.



Proportionality.

Fewer dark skinned characters in general, but disproportionately more likely to be villains.
Click to expand...

What was the argument then on RE5? On french forums the issue was always about "hey but shooting on black zombies it's racist wtf". Seriously, I ask that peacefuly I've never heard another argument about it.

And honestly I don't (at least not on purpose) take nonsensicial directions... I mean I honestly DON'T see any racial things in those "dark skinned vilain" or "Evil Ryu/Evil whatever" characters... It's true I'm a French white dude from French white parents and so on, so maybe I'm not sensitive about it I've never suffered of racism (except when I lived a bit in Korea, Koreans called me "fucking american" in streets because I'm white...) so maybe I just don't see it. Most of my favorite artists are Japanese, Korean, African americans, Latinos, etc etc.
I mean how they could on purpose make "evil characters" black for a racial reason, it's... So dumb... We're in 2017, people who make games are educated, they are not some Hillbillies (yeah I know, again a stereotype). Oh well it's true I'm surprised by some elections recently (USA, France alt right almost won, etc), that's so weird...

Honestly I can't believe it's on purpose, but... of course there are some stereotypes like "black dies first in horror movies" (not so mucn anymore though), or black character is the funny dude, etc. Asians are the math guys.

That's just weird to me, like all those sexists talks. I mean yes girls are often sexy but Nathan Drake too, Snake is not bad I guess, the Prince of Persia, heroes of Far Cry games, AC, Watch Dogs, they are all handsome/good looking dudes I think, no?

Honestly I'm always confuse in all those talks, maybe I'm too naive and don't see the "dark purpose" (yeah I know "dark" again, sorry) behind all these but, that's how I feel. :)
 
MoogleMan

MoogleMan

Member
I swear people are so sensitive over everything...

I've noticed this since I started gaming 29 years ago.

It's just not what he makes it out to be.
The evil or bad guys are usually darker to give a sense of evil.
Dark = bad/evil.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity.
Could we please stop making an issue out of every little thing?
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
I guess I shouldn't be but I'm surprised how many people are just outright dismissing this. Even ignoring the absolute indefensible darkening of evil versions of characters, can anyone seriously say there are more heroes that have darker skin compared to evil characters? Come the fuck on.
 
P

Pandy

Member
autoduelist said:
I mean, there is a reason for it, and it's not inherently racist. We're instinctually afraid of the dark. This is ingrained in our ancestral history, lighting fires to keep away the baying wolves. The dark = black, the light of day = white. It's why many major 'gods' from major religions are, or are based on, sun gods.

It's the use of symbols to quickly allow the viewer to understand something is 'evil' [just like 'red' is often used for dangerous due to the color of predatory eyes in the night as well as the color of many poisonous berries]. It is why the bad guys wear black hats, and the good guys wear white hats in westerns, not racism.

Is it misused on occasion? Sure. But it's important to recognize that the use of darker palettes for 'evil' has non-racist roots in our history. [and yes, like I said, it can be abused... but something like 'Dark Samus' is clearly due to non-racist symbology.
Click to expand...
I was going to post something along these lines, but the thread is rapidly becoming a trash fire, so I'll just say I agree with the above and see myself out.
 
S

sephi22

Member
Jafar's also a big offender.

KLoWn said:
Just...what? I mean, are you actually serious?
Click to expand...
Yes. As an Indian guy it also bothers me that the only Indian rep in the game is an unquestioning morally reprehensible architect working for an oppressive corporation.

No. I'm not actually serious. As a brown person I gravitated towards brown characters, may they be good or evil. Akuma being the baddest and the coolest.
 
L

LastNac

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Meanwhile, it's something I had been aware of since I was a child, which saddened me. Ganondorf was notable for me with this, as basically the only major black character I was aware of, with the Nintendo 64 being my first console.
Click to expand...

Woah...Ganon is black?
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
MoogleMan said:
I swear people are so sensitive over everything...

I've noticed this since I started gaming 29 years ago.

It's just not what he makes it out to be.
The evil or bad guys are usually darker to give a sense of evil.
Dark = bad/evil.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity.
Could we please stop making an issue out of every little thing?
Click to expand...

you are free to post elsewhere
 
P

peakish

Member
BN.Q8 said:
maybe that's just a tan?
Click to expand...
Of course it's a tan. The stupid part is where they removed it once she became princess like, because of course a princess can't be dark.

It's important to notice how these maybe minor connotations may have larger cultural impact since they're systematic. I've read so many books where thugs are described as "musky" or "dark featured," but very few where good guys are off-handedly described so. That can all add up to stuff like
The Adder said:
SHIT NEEDS TO STOP ALREADY,
YES.

I say this as though the people who skipped the video in the OP to voice their opinions will bother watching this one.
Click to expand...
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
sanstesy said:
What? In the credits of OoT after Ganondorf is defeated we see Gerudos and other people of Hyrule together celebrating. They are not potrayed as inherently evil.
Click to expand...

Hell, in Breath of the wild the Gerudo are incredibly pissed off about Ganondorf staining the reputation of the Gerudo for generations.
 
M

Mael

Member
xdr said:
What was the argument then on RE5? On french forums the issue was always about "hey but shooting on black zombies it's racist wtf". Seriously, I ask that peacefuly I've never heard another argument about it.

And honestly I don't (at least not on purpose) take nonsensicial directions... I mean I honestly DON'T see any racial things in those "dark skinned vilain" or "Evil Ryu/Evil whatever" characters... It's true I'm a French white dude from French white parents and so on, so maybe I'm not sensitive about it I've never suffered of racism (except when I lived a bit in Korea, Koreans called me "fucking american" in streets because I'm white...) so maybe I just don't see it. Most of my favorite artists are Japanese, Korean, African americans, Latinos, etc etc.
I mean how they could on purpose make "evil characters" black for a racial reason, it's... So dumb... We're in 2017, people who make games are educated, they are not some Hillbillies. Oh well it's true I'm surprised by some elections recently (USA, France alt right almost won, etc), that's so weird...

Honestly I can't believe it's on purpose, but... of course there are some stereotypes like "black dies first in horror movies" (not so mucn anymore though), or black character is the funny dude, etc. Asians are the math guys.

That's just weird to me, like all those sexists talks. I mean yes girls are often sexy but Nathan Drake too, Snake is not bad I guess, the Prince of Persia, heroes of Far Cry games, AC, Watch Dogs, they are all handsome/good looking dudes I think, no?

Honestly I'm always confuse in all those talks, maybe I'm too naive and don't see the "dark purpose" (yeah I know "dark" again, sorry) behind all these but, that's how I feel. :)
Click to expand...
Lots to unpack here.
on the bold the difference is that men in games are portrayed as the player wanting to be them, women are portrayed as the player wanting to fuck them.
It's the same issue with PoC representation in games, except no one really gives a shit (exhibit A:this thread).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[DF] Resident Evil 4 Remake on iPhone 15 Pro: Can Mobile Truly Handle AAA Gaming?
44
3K
StereoVsn replied
  • Locked
Metaphor: ReFantazio Details Story, World, Tribes, Characters, English Screenshots
Hype
2
476
Fake replied
[Gamespot] The Most-Anticipated PlayStation Games Of 2023 And Beyond
|OT| Opinion News
34
3K
Batiman replied
Resident Evil 7 - New Details & Impressions from PSMUK
2
75
29K
dlauv replied
Study on Race & Ethnicity Options in Character Creators
2 3
113
17K
kamineko replied
Top Bottom