Lol it's not an even playing field and there's nothing wrong with calling Namco out on it. They put up thousands and thousands of dollars up for grabs and handicap 90% of their fanbase from ever reaching it. I welcome anyone with a voice to keep speaking up until hopefully it pierces Namco's corporate Fortress and influences someone within that can make a difference.
And that's all fine and dandy and they've made their point ages ago, but if you saw Michael Murray's response(which I actually partially agreed with), they aren't gonna change shit.
So fuck worrying about Namco just magically being on your side because like Sayah said, that's not happening. Play the game.
If Tekken had been released worldwide at the same time, JDCR and Saint would still be beating everyone outside of Korea free, because that's what they were doing after five years of Tekken Tag 2 as well.
If Tekken had been released worldwide at the same time, JDCR and Saint would still be beating everyone outside of Korea free, because that's what they were doing after five years of Tekken Tag 2 as well.
Tag 2 when the west didnt have the machines either? The point is is everyone has access to the game it then becomes a question of ability and community and not if we had the game at the same time
Tag 2 when the west didnt have the machines either? The point is is everyone has access to the game it then becomes a question of ability and community and not if we had the game at the same time
And that's all fine and dandy and they've made their point ages ago, but if you saw Michael Murray's response(which I actually partially agreed with), they aren't gonna change shit.
So fuck worrying about Namco just magically being on your side because like Sayah said, that's not happening. Play the game.
It's not the point about Namco being obstinate corporate assholes in the matter. Just because they won't change doesn't mean everyone should just stay silent. Even though I'm not a sports guy you can look at the NCAA fiasco. We know the NCAA will never change their stance on compensating their athletes but that doesn't mean we should all just shut up because it's futile. I didn't mention it in my previous post but raising your voice generates awareness to the general public and even if it won't necessarily get the desired outcome for the game we're invested in, everybody else can appreciate when a different company doesn't treat their region this way.
So I'll just reword your last sentence: Fuck worrying about what American/European Tekken competitors say about the way Namco treats them not jiving with your outlook. Play the game.
If Tekken had been released worldwide at the same time, JDCR and Saint would still be beating everyone outside of Korea free, because that's what they were doing after five years of Tekken Tag 2 as well.
You're making a rebuttal to a claim that was never made. Tell me one person who said they could beat JDCR and Saint if they had the game the same time as them. The argument is that regardless of the Koreans' aptitude in competition, it's not a level playing field.
EDIT: Also, fun fact: Mr. Naps beat JDCR in Tekken 6 when they met at EVO, a game that NorCal had access to the same time as Japan/Korea. Just like how guys like JFJ, FightingGM, Fab, Kor beat Koreans like Rain, Knee, etc. at various MLG events, all players who had access to Tekken 6 arcade along with Japan/Korea.
Well, in all fairness Tekken 7 had basically 3 years to "perfect" it's console version and to supply it with a plethora of content, great customization, modes and to make sure the online worked properly. I really do like Tekken 7, but the netcode on day one was inexcusably horrific and it still had major issues even today after multiple patches. SF5 was obviously rushed and it seems like MVCI was also from what I've heard. Not trying to justify the Capcom fighters being rushed with their issues, but if I heard correctly, Tekken 7 console version was also rushed to consoles which was indicative by the bad netcode and issues. That really perplexes me. Oh well, at least it plays great and is very fun to me. Imo, it makes TTT2 feel really stiff control-wise despite TTT2 have more content, better customization, etc.
I pretty much skipped Tekken 6 and TTT2. Bought Tekken 6 four years after release because I didn't own a PS4 until then, and I bought TTT2 on the Wii U.
Tekken 7 is literally a copy/paste recycling of Tekken 6. To the point that people were able to easily mod Tekken 6 PSP to play like Tekken 7. In fact, I'll say I vastly prefer bound over screw attacks. Stronger wall damage and less hideous animation. Bound even had unique animation for opponents landing on their stomach while screw attacks don't. Tekken 7 just made minor changes to make the game less intimidating for newer players, including, for instance, easier getup options, toned down wall damage and oki, and addition of power crush to help overcome pressure/rushdown, which I assume is why you like it. Newcomers frustration with Tekken 6 was due to constantly getting juggled, re-juggled, and wall splatted without understanding why.
It's not the point about Namco being obstinate corporate assholes in the matter. Just because they won't change doesn't mean everyone should just stay silent. Even though I'm not a sports guy you can look at the NCAA fiasco. We know the NCAA will never change their stance on compensating their athletes but that doesn't mean we should all just shut up because it's futile. I didn't mention it in my previous post but raising your voice generates awareness to the general public and even if it won't necessarily get the desired outcome for the game we're invested in, everybody else can appreciate when a different company doesn't treat their region this way.
So I'll just reword your last sentence: Fuck worrying about what American/European Tekken competitors say about the way Namco treats them not jiving with your outlook. Play the game.
Umm that's not nearly what I'm getting at because the players are doing that already. I'm saying that the focus on Namco's bs arcade mentality hurts their play because they're too focused on how unfair it is. They are going to speak out and have spoken out plenty of times. Until shit changes do what you have to at this point to win which some players have.
You're making a rebuttal to a claim that was never made. Tell me one person who said they could beat JDCR and Saint if they had the game the same time as them. The argument is that regardless of the Koreans' aptitude in competition, it's not a level playing field.
Umm that's not nearly what I'm getting at because the players are doing that already. I'm saying that the focus on Namco's bs arcade mentality hurts their play because they're too focused on how unfair it is. They are going to speak out and have spoken out plenty of times. Until shit changes do what you have to at this point to win which some players have.
Out of the 1000's of tweets and comments the competitive players make on discord, steams, and their twitter making a few comments that you count on your finger about the advantage Japanese/Koreans have about their 2.5 year head start means they're mostly "focusing on how unfair it is"? That is quite the claim you're making. Don't you think they're mentally exhausting their matchup notes, match vid analyses, habits observed from prior games, the lab work they've done instead?
This isn't really something we can debate, if that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. Both of us have competed before, when I went up against guys like Kor, JoeyFury, and OFDP I was not mentally defeating myself about how awesome they were at Tekken. I was focused on the battle at hand and trying to win. But alas, I can only speak for myself here.
If that's what you think the players are spending their mental capacity on when sitting opposite the Koreans in a tournament then there's nothing I can present to say otherwise. And even if for argument's sake they did think that way during tournament, not tweeting or posting about it like you're asking won't change that fact.
You're gonna have to show me these receipts. You referred to this tweet at the beginning of the conversation and the only implication I read is that we are not familiar enough with the matchup based on the time we had. There's nothing I take away saying Naps would have prevailed over Jeondding, just saying that we would have understood why things were happening better.
Out of the 1000's of tweets and comments the competitive players make on discord, steams, and their twitter making a few comments that you count on your finger about the advantage Japanese/Koreans have about their 2.5 year head start means they're mostly "focusing on how unfair it is"? That is quite the claim you're making. Don't you think they're mentally exhausting their matchup notes, match vid analyses, habits observed from prior games, the lab work they've done instead?
This isn't really something we can debate, if that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. Both of us have competed before, when I went up against guys like Kor, JoeyFury, and OFDP I was not mentally defeating myself about how awesome they were at Tekken. I was focused on the battle at hand and trying to win. But alas, I can only speak for myself here.
If that's what you think the players are spending their mental capacity on when sitting opposite the Koreans in a tournament then there's nothing I can present to say otherwise. And even if for argument's sake they did think that way during tournament, not tweeting or posting about it like you're asking won't change that fact.
You're gonna have to show me these receipts. You referred to this tweet at the beginning of the conversation and the only implication I read is that we are not familiar enough with the matchup based on the time we had. There's nothing I take away saying Naps would have prevailed over Jeondding, just saying that we would have understood why things were happening better.
I'm not saying they aren't putting in the work they clearly are. But imo as a competitor, I've eternalized the philosophy that any energy towards the game outside of trying to get better at the game is going to hurt your game. The same goes with complaining about input lag, the game being different fundamentally than what you care for, etc. And if those things frustrate you enough, it's going to take away from your ability to level up. I know it has for me in TTT2 and in T7 which is why i haven't been playing and earnestly putting in the work.
And while I'm mostly targeting Speedkicks it's because I think he's a really good player that gets hung up on stuff like that. Anakin in that same thread provided the proper logical competitive mindset with insight. I'm just seeing this come from players like Speedkicks, the newer generation of Tekken players but also old blood like Bloohawk who thought I would know better.
I've seen how this mentality has affected many other players in many games. KBrad, Sanford, FChamp just to name a few.
I'm not saying they aren't putting in the work they clearly are. But imo as a competitor, I've eternalized the philosophy that any energy towards the game outside of trying to get better at the game is going to hurt your game.
The same goes with complaining about input lag, the game being different fundamentally than what you care for, etc. And if those things frustrate you enough, it's going to take away from your ability to level up. I know it has for me in TTT2 and in T7 which is why i haven't been playing and earnestly putting in the work.
This isn't even remotely feasible to avoid. The only way you could block out such information is if you completely isolate yourself from all the Tekken news, information, and release dates. The moment you get exposed to the fact that Tekken 7 released in March 2015 your mind will subconsciously know a certain segment of the fanbase is leveling up before you will ever touch the game two and a half years later. When noodalls releases his tests on Tekken 7's input lag and gets virally spread throughout the internet that information will forever stay in your memory. You can't just erase that from your memory, that knowledge of its existence will always loom.
Even the champion JDCR constantly talks about the input lag in all of his interviews and is the root cause of his dependence on Dragunov over Heihachi. You're right it doesn't help him become a better player thinking about it, but it exists and your brain willl subconsciously think about all the factors regardless. Since we established Namco isn't ever going to compromise the only way to avoid it is to quarantine yourself from the internet but that's not going to happen.
And while I'm mostly targeting Speedkicks it's because I think he's a really good player that gets hung up on stuff like that. Anakin in that same thread provided the proper logical competitive mindset with insight. I'm just seeing this come from players like Speedkicks, the newer generation of Tekken players but also old blood like Bloohawk who thought I would know better.
I've seen how this mentality has affected many other players in many games. KBrad, Sanford, FChamp just to name a few.
You're assuming players like SK are getting hung up on it when that tweet was just a simple acknowledgement of the fact in the form a meme-friendly witty remark. The overwhelming majority of all his tweets, streams, and discord activity is about improving in Tekken and seeking knowledge that would lead to better results.
So yes, you are right that spending energy thinking about Japan/Korea's advantage doesn't help their competitive spirit. But the only feasible entity capable of preventing those thoughts from occurring is Namco themselves.
Unfortunately your spot on, makes no fiscal sense for namco to abandon arcades and move straight to console. Unless the arcade market has a renaissance...
Tekken 7 is literally a copy/paste recycling of Tekken 6. To the point that people were able to easily mod Tekken 6 PSP to play like Tekken 7. In fact, I'll say I vastly prefer bound over screw attacks. Stronger wall damage and less hideous animation. Bound even had unique animation for opponents landing on their stomach while screw attacks don't. Tekken 7 just made minor changes to make the game less intimidating for newer players, including, for instance, easier getup options, toned down wall damage and oki, and addition of power crush to help overcome pressure/rushdown, which I assume is why you like it. Newcomers frustration with Tekken 6 was due to constantly getting juggled, re-juggled, and wall splatted without understanding why.
Namco will never change their way of doing Tekker. If a pro really wants to compete then when the game comes out they will have to either make regular trips to Japan or Korea, or just try to work past it. North American competitors just seem like something nice to put on marketing to me. But I may be too cynical.
Tag 2 when the west didnt have the machines either? The point is is everyone has access to the game it then becomes a question of ability and community and not if we had the game at the same time
Tag 2 at the end of Tag 2's life, when everyone worldwide had the game for literally years, the Koreans still destroyed everyone free.
Fact is Tekken is very fragmented across the Eu and US, unless we can get into a situation where you have this huge mass of high tier players playing against each other regularly,, we're never going to get on the same level. The only way I can see that hapenning is vastly improved netcode.
EDIT: Also, fun fact: Mr. Naps beat JDCR in Tekken 6 when they met at EVO, a game that NorCal had access to the same time as Japan/Korea. Just like how guys like JFJ, FightingGM, Fab, Kor beat Koreans like Rain, Knee, etc. at various MLG events, all players who had access to Tekken 6 arcade along with Japan/Korea.
Mr Naps is still capable of beating JDCR imo, but just looking at the list of names there, he's the only one of the old school players really still active in US tournaments, where the Korean legacy players are still there and only getting better.
Jeondding, has been really good for a while now, even if he's not had much exposure. He absolutely ruined people in TTT2 at mastercup a few years back with a double capo team.
Tekken 7 is literally a copy/paste recycling of Tekken 6. To the point that people were able to easily mod Tekken 6 PSP to play like Tekken 7. In fact, I'll say I vastly prefer bound over screw attacks. Stronger wall damage and less hideous animation. Bound even had unique animation for opponents landing on their stomach while screw attacks don't. Tekken 7 just made minor changes to make the game less intimidating for newer players, including, for instance, easier getup options, toned down wall damage and oki, and addition of power crush to help overcome pressure/rushdown, which I assume is why you like it. Newcomers frustration with Tekken 6 was due to constantly getting juggled, re-juggled, and wall splatted without understanding why.
It goes beyond that. I just never found T6 exciting to watch or play at all. I started watching T7FR during KOIFT back in October before I even knew about the things that they made easier for newcomers. I watched it because it looked hella exciting and eventually when I got it, it played that way as well. So to me the similarities really dont matter at all as it feels like a completely different game.
Depends. Steve had stronger Bound combos, Lee, Law, Lars too on top of my mind. Maybe Heihachi. It's true that Screw allows for everyone to have a decent wall carry but at the same time characters powerful wall game is weak. Heihachi has to by happy with df+1,1, 1+2. Not that I'm sad that long wall combos are gone.
It'd be great if Screw was invented in T6. Back then in Tekken development had been put a lot of work, in it's animation variety and quality, so embarrassing stuff like T7 backturn Screw not being original and logical animation wouldn't have chance to pass even in beta stage. There are also huge amounts of copy pasting and bad animation mashups like Miguel's df+2,2 that probably wouldn't fly during T6 development.
That said T7 is mechanically sound game and is fun and screw looks a lot more flashy/effective and I like it. It doesn't make combos any shorter because naturally you have to run farther to catch opponents but the "screwing around" is a fun shit.
My gripe with T7 is that it feels bit soulless. The gameplay works, systems/mechanic work, but they removed many tiny elements like 80% of character fight intro and outros, that made character feel like there "something" in these bags of polygons. They even haven't bothered giving most characters actual role or a reason(not a pointless ones at least) to be in the tournament. Not single story artwork. I don't even want to comment on the shit they offered in character episodes.
The characters feel kinda dead inside. From their apparition, impression they make I get the feeling there's less "Yes! I'll wreck everyone here! Bring in on! "and more: "I don't know why I'm even here...*shrug*"
Tekken 7 is a fun game where balance is good and even the 2d mechanics work. It just doesn't feel fully Tekken when all it's parts are put together, if that makes sense. It's hard to explain the feeling.
It's just a rambling of an ancient fan that doesn't matter in this time.
I'll be still be trying to ask for legacy controller patch but I'm so irrelevant it's not funny. Michael Murray will keep ignoring me until I'm dead or unable to write.
I loved back roll catches and various refloat oki options, stuff characteristic to Tekken. Very cool oki. Very sad that most (Not all thank Raijin!) is gone. You had to be smart how to get up. In T7 I get hit by ground flip moves because I forget I need to stop thinking and hold back on knockdown. Every decent player knew that this is sure death so switching to this backward logic is hard even after months of playtime. :/
Starting to learn Josie as a second character. Been holding it down in green ranks with Asuka for a while now, I think I'm close to my natural skill ceiling without learning frame data and lots of very specific matchup knowledge, idk. But I'm still having fun. I pretty much never pick up more than 1 character seriously in fighting games before my attention just wanes completely, but I really fucking love this game. Compared to any other fighting game I've played it just takes way less time before you're actually playing the game, even if you kind of suck, like me.
It goes beyond that. I just never found T6 exciting to watch or play at all. I started watching T7FR during KOIFT back in October before I even knew about the things that they made easier for newcomers. I watched it because it looked hella exciting and eventually when I got it, it played that way as well. So to me the similarities really dont matter at all as it feels like a completely different game.
Tekken 7 is definitely more exciting to watch than Tekken 6 because it adds several spectator friendly changes, whether it's sparks, slow motion, or camera changes to highlight the versatility of certain moves. While I love all of these changes, all of this is still flash and not substance. The core gameplay doesn't evolve much from what Tekken 6 offered. I would say the only major substantive change is the addition of rage drives.
That's exactly the reason I like bound. Plus bound created much better oki situations. Watching Mr. Taxis Anna video makes me sad how inferior Tekken 7s oki is compared to Tekken 6.
Namco did all these things to make a game accessible to casuals except give them a reason to play with this or that character. Stories are nonexistent.
Tekken 7 is definitely more exciting to watch than Tekken 6 because it adds several spectator friendly changes, whether it's sparks, slow motion, or camera changes to highlight the versatility of certain moves. While I love all of these changes, all of this is still flash and not substance. The core gameplay doesn't evolve much from what Tekken 6 offered. I would say the only major substantive change is the addition of rage drives.
Depends. Steve had stronger Bound combos, Lee, Law, Lars too on top of my mind. Maybe Heihachi. It's true that Screw allows for everyone to have a decent wall carry but at the same time characters powerful wall game is weak. Heihachi has to by happy with df+1,1, 1+2. Not that I'm sad that long wall combos are gone.
It'd be great if Screw was invented in T6. Back then in Tekken development had been put a lot of work, in it's animation variety and quality, so embarrassing stuff like T7 backturn Screw not being original and logical animation wouldn't have chance to pass even in beta stage. There are also huge amounts of copy pasting and bad animation mashups like Miguel's df+2,2 that probably wouldn't fly during T6 development.
That said T7 is mechanically sound game and is fun and screw looks a lot more flashy/effective and I like it. It doesn't make combos any shorter because naturally you have to run farther to catch opponents but the "screwing around" is a fun shit.
My gripe with T7 is that it feels bit soulless. The gameplay works, systems/mechanic work, but they removed many tiny elements like 80% of character fight intro and outros, that made character feel like there "something" in these bags of polygons. They even haven't bothered giving most characters actual role or a reason(not a pointless ones at least) to be in the tournament. Not single story artwork. I don't even want to comment on the shit they offered in character episodes.
The characters feel kinda dead inside. From their apparition, impression they make I get the feeling there's less "Yes! I'll wreck everyone here! Bring in on! "and more: "I don't know why I'm even here...*shrug*"
Tekken 7 is a fun game where balance is good and even the 2d mechanics work. It just doesn't feel fully Tekken when all it's parts are put together, if that makes sense. It's hard to explain the feeling.
It's just a rambling of an ancient fan that doesn't matter in this time.
I'll be still be trying to ask for legacy controller patch but I'm so irrelevant it's not funny. Michael Murray will keep ignoring me until I'm dead or unable to write.
Tekken 7 is just inconsistent everywhere. Some customs look great; others don't. Some stages look awesome; others went from looking great to looking like trash (Souq and Jungle Outpost) or are missing basic things like footprints in snow. The hair clipping is awful especially for Katarina and Nina. The character designs range from awful (gigas, Chloe) to great (Kazumi). There definitely is a disappointing take on character endings.
I still enjoy the game but know it could have been so much more, and I'll always remember it as the game that made me have a falling out with this franchise due to its BS release model, massive amounts of recycling, and absurd DLC practices.
No. Not at all! The gameplay evolved far more from T5DR to T6 and then also from T6 to TTT2 then it did from T6 to T7. In fact, T7 is a step down in many ways due to the changes it made to make the game more accessible. Tekken 6 is superior to me from a gameplay perspective. If Tekken 6 had good netcode and an active playerbase, I would drop Tekken 7 in a heartbeat.
I feel like I regret playing Eliza. Its more I am playing her as 2D fighter in a 3D game than in a Tekken way when I play Dragunov. Having an EX DP loaded and in stock makes me have bad habits when I play with Dragunov.
Tag 2 was a piece of shit game. Too complex for its own good. Tekken 7 does it just right. In what ways is it too casual now to enjoy? 'Dumbed down' isn't a negative in this case at all.
I'm think I'm going to drop Kasia. Too bad because he was my first favorite Tekken character.
Lost 5 straight to a brawler-level Heihachi who was just frame locking me with u/f+3+4 into d+2? If I try to duck the low, he would just do the jump kick into a combo. It was sad.
Tag 2 was a piece of shit game. Too complex for its own good. Tekken 7 does it just right. In what ways is it too casual now to enjoy? 'Dumbed down' isn't a negative in this case at all.
No one said Tekken 7 was too casual to enjoy. The core gameplay still provides a lot of great depth because it's built off the back of its predecessors. It's just that for me personally, removal of bound and introduction of screw attacks makes Tekken 7 inferior to Tekken 6 from a gameplay perspective. Maybe it's just me but the mind games were more intense in Tekken 6.
T7 is a step down in many ways due to the changes it made to make the game more accessible. Tekken 6 is superior to me from a gameplay perspective. If Tekken 6 had good netcode and an active playerbase, I would drop Tekken 7 in a heartbeat.
Finally feel like I'm getting better at the game. Starting to read lows and that's really helped a ton. Got my Leo to green rank. I do spam db 4,1 when people don't block it. I've gotten a lot better at learning when its my turn to press buttons.
Still hate the state of online but I'm still coming back and playing matches almost every day.
Yes, I know that most people are going to prefer the more accessible game and I can't blame them because I'm the same way with some other fighters. It's unfortunate but it is what it is.
Tag 2 was a piece of shit game. Too complex for its own good. Tekken 7 does it just right. In what ways is it too casual now to enjoy? 'Dumbed down' isn't a negative in this case at all.
What did it mimic besides having 2 pairs of characters?
Both Tag1 and Tag2 were great because they evolved characters adding the best or most useful moves ever.
Jin's b+4 steel pedal? Made in Tag1. Now in T7 half of the cast is using this move.
Kaz without df+2 is not Kaz. Made for Tag1.
1/3 if the moveset Asuka is using now was created for Jun in Tag1.
Does anyone imagine Paul now without ws 3,2 or qcb+4? I don't.
Paul's df+1 B into sway. His most used tool? Tag1.
Lee's running 3,4. Tag2.
Lee's hitman stance. Tag1.
Ect.
Moveset additions for Tag1 and Tag2 were brilliant. With additions so fundamental they are impossible to remove now without not ruining the characters.
How far can you go without knowing shit for frame data? I use to play Tekken Tag 1, got into Tekken 7 because of PC, and I've hit Maurader. I feel like I can't go any further without knowing correct punishes and all that.
How far can you go without knowing shit for frame data? I use to play Tekken Tag 1, got into Tekken 7 because of PC, and I've hit Maurader. I feel like I can't go any further without knowing correct punishes and all that.
This is my first Tekken, and I'm at the same rank as you. With the exception of a few moves, I know practically no frame data other than my character's own best moves and frametraps.
Trust me, you'll be fine. If there's a move that's giving you real trouble then you should look up the frames just to see your ideal punish but other than that, there's no reason to really bother at the start.
I personally find it better to just know your own 10f, 11f, 12f, 13f, etc etc punishes and then just try them out when playing. If the 13f punish didn't work then naturally everything above that won't work, so next time try for 12f and so on.
That's exactly the reason I like bound. Plus bound created much better oki situations. Watching Mr. Taxis Anna video makes me sad how inferior Tekken 7s oki is compared to Tekken 6.
How far can you go without knowing shit for frame data? I use to play Tekken Tag 1, got into Tekken 7 because of PC, and I've hit Maurader. I feel like I can't go any further without knowing correct punishes and all that.
'knowing the correct punishes' and 'knowing frame data' are not the same thing. The numbers are just an easy way to talk about that stuff, but you can find it all out by yourself by trial and error too if you -really hate- spreadsheets for some reason.
All that said, Tekken is a game in which knowledge is important. If you can't deal with certain things (and the correct way to deal with a lot of things is to punish them severely, yes), the opponent will surely abuse this fact until you're ready to tear your hair out.
So if a certain move or string is giving you trouble, remember what it is, then go into practice mode and try to find the solution to it (Ask someone if you can't find anything by yourself). Frame data is just information that can streamline that process a little bit for you, it doesn't change what you'll have to do to improve.
