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Gotchaye
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:25 PM)
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I'm not sure what Wizards need, but it's a huge struggle trying to contribute past T10 even with some pretty nice gear. Del Rasha only adds CC because nobody wants to wait for Slow Time to kill things and Vyr's is like a Monk that's only up half the time - it's really not well-suited to group play because it does so much worse the more running you have to do. Maybe if you could build Chantodo's stacks and get Archon CDR while in Archon, so that you effectively have no downtime but also can't build up stacks forever (you would have a higher number of stacks on average though).
mileS
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:25 PM)
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Agree on the F&R talk. Would love to see it gone completely more than anything. No set rings unless its just the 1 ring matching with other gear. The amount of different builds would jump up quite a bit without F&R.
Radec
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:30 PM)
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God I hate Exorcists.
MrDaravon
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Radec

God I hate Exorcists.

Regular exorcists and Ghastly Seraphs have killed more GR60 runs than anything else combined for me. I will literally be completely ignoring elite packs because exorcists/seraphs are actually the greater threat most of the time as a DH. It's super fucking dumb.
Dahbomb
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by JesseZao

What's the rough order of power now?

I have other classes at 70, I just have played C and DH the most.

Monks and Barbs are god tier at the moment with WD in 3rd place not that far behind (but fuck playing with Helltooth Lag).

DH is 4th, Wiz 5th and Crusader is dead last.


Monks and WDs benefitted a lot from the cube. A set like Uliana would be mediocre as fuck without the Cube.
JesseZao
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:44 PM)
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I got the cube last night, but I haven't harvested any powers yet. I'll have to get the mats to start doing that soon.
Pyros_Eien
Member
(09-13-2015, 09:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by JesseZao

I got the cube last night, but I haven't harvested any powers yet. I'll have to get the mats to start doing that soon.

If you got it while leveling, you can't really extract powers until 61+ when you start getting death breaths. Even then, they're very uncommon at torment 1 and under, so it takes a bit to actually really start making use of the cube. Still worth dumping some of your first death breaths(after the one to unlock blacksmith crafting imo)+1 round of bounty in T1(or even hard) into the cube just to get 1 power for each slot.
Radec
Member
(09-13-2015, 10:38 PM)
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GR58 done on my 14 hour WD.

2 more and I'm switching to Wiz.
CrushDance
Banned
(09-13-2015, 11:15 PM)
This is insanity. I have over 5,000 Deaths breaths but next to nothing in regards to veiled crystals. Did I miss an update or something...because it sounds like most players have the opposite problem that I have. I haven't played for many months,
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
(09-13-2015, 11:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrushDance

This is insanity. I have over 5,000 Deaths breaths but next to nothing in regards to veiled crystals. Did I miss an update or something...because it sounds like most players have the opposite problem that I have. I haven't played for many months,

are you just not picking up yellows?
Addnan
Member
(09-13-2015, 11:26 PM)
You are doing something wrong lol. I have 5 stacks of yellows and only 2000 deaths breaths.
Pyros_Eien
Member
(09-13-2015, 11:31 PM)
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Iirc, you get 8 materials per white salvage, farm whites for a bit in like Halls of Agony or Battlefields or wherever you prefer, then convert the whites into other stuff. Even like 10mins of farming will yield several hundreds of materials, enough to burn a good amount of death breaths.

It's that or looting all the rares as you go instead of ignoring them.
CrushDance
Banned
(09-13-2015, 11:42 PM)

Originally Posted by davepoobond

are you just not picking up yellows?

I am, and I do salvage some of them. But how do some of you have thousands of crystals? ! rare=1 crystal...right? This is so weird, haha. Maybe I farmed a bunch of those a year ago and just forgot?
Jedi2016
Member
(09-14-2015, 12:04 AM)
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I don't pick up yellows, but I do pick up the crystals that drop off enemies, especially bosses or goblins that drop dozens of them. I forget how many I have, thousands.. haven't had a problem with 'em yet.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
(09-14-2015, 12:10 AM)
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I can't get a decent hellfire amulet to save my life.

And farming them is soul-sucking.

Got close today with one for my DH, but the passive was absolute trash, and the crit damage was only like 63%.
Jas
Member
(09-14-2015, 12:32 AM)
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I agree with the top 3 classes being Monks, Barbs, and Witch Doctors but I think by the end of the season Witch Doctors will end up doing the highest greater rift.

1. Witch Doctor
2. Barb
3. Monk

All 3 classes are fun to play right now so you can't go wrong with any of them :)
Kinitari
Black Canada Mafia
(09-14-2015, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fenderputty

I won't be playing this weekend as I'll be out of town.

Fenderputty#1180

When I get back I"ll kick the least active member and put you on. People are like 170+ days inactive in the main clan.

Awesome, I was out this weekend too but just got back!
Armaros
Member
(09-14-2015, 01:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jas

I agree with the top 3 classes being Monks, Barbs, and Witch Doctors but I think by the end of the season Witch Doctors will end up doing the highest greater rift.

1. Witch Doctor
2. Barb
3. Monk

All 3 classes are fun to play right now so you can't go wrong with any of them :)

Helltooth has insane lag issues and Carnevil require very good item rolls and is much squisher.
eek5
Member
(09-14-2015, 01:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Addnan

You are doing something wrong lol. I have 5 stacks of yellows and only 2000 deaths breaths.

This happens if you're lazy and craft items to upgrade rare in the cube. Crafting yellows costs a lot of veiled crystals.

For armor always gamble rares off kadala to upgrade. For weapons just collect them during runs and/or check vendors.
Jas
Member
(09-14-2015, 01:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Armaros

Helltooth has insane lag issues and Carnevil require very good item rolls and is much squisher.

Helltooth lag isn't too bad solo, at least it doesn't bother me. Zombie Bear build is very tanky think it will do better than Carnevil even with lag.
Armaros
Member
(09-14-2015, 01:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jas

Helltooth lag isn't too bad solo, at least it doesn't bother me. Zombie Bear build is very tanky think it will do better than Carnevil even with lag.

At the level of Grifts people are running on the high end, just about every class starts to lag, Helltooth just starts to lag first because of its underlying mechanics.

Watch the 71 rift from the top barb.
ShalashaskaEx
Banned
(09-14-2015, 02:53 AM)
Grrr....I noticed last night that RoS was down to $20 on Amazon. The physical version, the download code was still $40 for whatever reason.

I went to order it today and it's sold out.

That'll teach me to procrastinate!

T_T
JoeMartin
(09-14-2015, 04:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jas

I agree with the top 3 classes being Monks, Barbs, and Witch Doctors but I think by the end of the season Witch Doctors will end up doing the highest greater rift.

1. Witch Doctor
2. Barb
3. Monk

All 3 classes are fun to play right now so you can't go wrong with any of them :)

Rend barb looks like it's going to take number 1.

Granted, Alkaiser got dream density and type, but he finished 71 with time to spare regardless. Rend is hitting its stride and I don't see WD competing with its innate tank and ability to cleave multiple screens of mobs at once.
Ricerocket
Member
(09-14-2015, 04:19 AM)
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Just saw Alk's 71 clear, seems like the game hit it's limit in number crunching and mechanics That's sad that he has to keep pausing the game to let it catch up.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-14-2015, 05:08 AM)
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like holy shit are monks and barbs op compared with the other classes at the moment

did blizzard just not care that some classes can kill grift bosses in three hits while others have to take five minutes doing the same thing or
Duress
Member
(09-14-2015, 05:20 AM)
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What happened to clan chat? I log on and everyone's gone. :(

We disband?
ZenaxPure
Member
(09-14-2015, 05:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

did blizzard just not care that some classes can kill grift bosses in three hits while others have to take five minutes doing the same thing or

Same as it's ever been. It's only been a few months where it took Barbs upwards of 10 minutes to kill a GR boss without a conduit pylon.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-14-2015, 06:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by ZenaxPure

Same as it's ever been. It's only been a few months where it took Barbs upwards of 10 minutes to kill a GR boss without a conduit pylon.

couldn't they just, like, make them all balanced? it doesn't seem like it would be that hard.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
(09-14-2015, 06:26 AM)
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they could also punish people for botting
punish people for using exploits
give us more stash space
make it so the game doesnt kill itself once you reach super high level grs
etc

but they just dont

I don't need all classes to be perfectly balanced but it's pretty ridiculous how there always have to be 1 or 2 classes that are straight up better than the others.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-14-2015, 06:28 AM)
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the issue isn't with solo playing, i'm having fun with my wizard on my own and i'm never going to be pushing the GR leaderbaords, it's when you're in a group and there's a monk who just hits one button and kills every mob on the screen before zipping over to the next blob and one-hitting them all too

like i literally just run along behind and collect the loot

it's just not fun
Dahbomb
Member
(09-14-2015, 06:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

couldn't they just, like, make them all balanced? it doesn't seem like it would be that hard.

It's actually insanely difficult to balance. Balancing is what they have been trying to do for quite a while now.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-14-2015, 06:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

It's actually insanely difficult to balance. Balancing is what they have been trying to do for quite a while now.

okay but i mean, when they're in a situation where one class can kill every mob on the screen with little difficulty where another class has to carefully kite them around while avoiding damage, carefully proccing all of their buffs and managing their class resource, it kind of seems like they're not really putting much effort in
Raticus79
Seek victory, not fairness
(09-14-2015, 06:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Duress

What happened to clan chat? I log on and everyone's gone. :(

We disband?

Nope, still around and you're still in the clan. I had heard chat bugged out on someone before, so maybe it'll work for you the next time you log in.
Dahbomb
Member
(09-14-2015, 06:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

okay but i mean, when they're in a situation where one class can kill every mob on the screen with little difficulty where another class has to carefully kite them around while avoiding damage, carefully proccing all of their buffs and managing their class resource, it kind of seems like they're not really putting much effort in

I don't know what difficulty you are playing but at TX any class can crush it with no problem. Since you aren't going to be pushing GR, Wizards are perfectly capable of demolishing TX.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-14-2015, 06:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

I don't know what difficulty you are playing but at TX any class can crush it with no problem. Since you aren't going to be pushing GR, Wizards are perfectly capable of demolishing TX.

yes, as i said, i'm talking about playing in a group, not playing solo. i'm having fun with my wizard playing solo. but then when i play with my friends my character is basically pointless because other classes do so much more damage they make her irrelevant. it's not fun, and not from an epeen-waving point of view. it's not fun because you're just along for the ride and contributing nothing.
Dahbomb
Member
(09-14-2015, 06:57 AM)
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Wizards can contribute a lot depending on the spec. They have Aether Walker to move around quickly, cast their spells and do damage before the rest of the group gets there. I mean if you are at a point where everyone is crushing content then you can just try to get to mobs before them and kill them before they do.

Even if all you are doing is procing an EP, that's contribution to the game.
ZenaxPure
Member
(09-14-2015, 06:58 AM)
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Casual group play is terrible just from a gameplay perspective because it's just 3 people following around whoever is using the build with the highest mobility. Personally it's why I've always preferred to play alone because it's just more engaging/enjoyable from a gameplay perspective. Group play is fun but only as a social thing, it's always been terrible as a gameplay experience.

And don't expect it to change. It's always been this way (can't tell you how many countless hours I spent chasing down Jade Doctors at the start of the expansion) and it's probably always going to be that way. The only realistic way to stop it is by giving enemies more HP but that brings in other problems like not being able to carry which is the main thing I like about multiplayer, I am always ahead of my friends in progression and each season end up carrying them to endgame gear.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-14-2015, 07:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

Wizards can contribute a lot depending on the spec. They have Aether Walker to move around quickly, cast their spells and do damage before the rest of the group gets there. I mean if you are at a point where everyone is crushing content then you can just try to get to mobs before them and kill them before they do.

Even if all you are doing is procing an EP, that's contribution to the game.

but why bother building some marginal build like that just so that you can do a measly amount of damage before the monk turns up and 60 billion damage crits everything in the dungeon?

it's stupid! that's not balanced, or fun, it's daft.
Nokterian
always look on the bright side of STRIFE
...and LOL
...and DOTA2
(09-14-2015, 07:47 AM)
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Got starmetal kukri yesterday as a drop..how are the odds of this dropping? Very low so far i heard of it was also a ancient but i added it to my cube anyway very happy with this now i just need mask of jeram.
Pyros_Eien
Member
(09-14-2015, 08:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

but why bother building some marginal build like that just so that you can do a measly amount of damage before the monk turns up and 60 billion damage crits everything in the dungeon?

it's stupid! that's not balanced, or fun, it's daft.

The only way group play works with the current gear levels is Grifts, at least 50-55+ depending on your gear. Anything lower, including torment 10, and you'll destroy everything because the power levels are so high. It's not a class thing either, a well geared wizard can destroy T10 easily near instantly too and it becomes a game of whoever can get to the monsters first to blow them up. Arguably, some classes do it with less gear, but eventually it doesn't really matter. Even Crusaders probably can, even though they tend to be kinda on the slow side for damage even with the new hammer stuff(they tend to hammer a bunch then run away as hammers finish stuff up, while say a monk will just blow everything right away with seven sided strike and move on after).

Once you get to high enough GRs, everyone contribute decently cause stuff stops dying instantly, so monks need several SSS rotations and you can catch up on sustained damage or whatever. But yes some classes are still ahead, and are in general the classes people want in their groups to do high GRs which isn't very fun for other classes. Before it was DH, then near the end of S3 it became wizards and now it's HotA barbs and U6 monks.

Balancing stuff is hard. It doesn't help that they're slow as shit at patching the PTR either, so they'll swing the nerf/buff bats one side or the other, then they'll just try to adjust slightly(generally not enough), and eventually they settle on a build to push live and the balance is off. I guess they have different people working on different classes too and they don't get together to try to fix it all at once or don't consider the only relevant benchmarks for high end performance, GR level, and instead go with average numbers or whatever else and end up messing it up.

That's how you end up with PTR numbers actually being not balanced for the entire thing, and the live situation being exactly the same, even though it was fairly obvious what was going to happen. A lot of stuff could be tweaked simply by changing numbers too, no actual coding involved. Wizards and DH have strong functional sets, all they'd need is a bigger numbers on their set bonuses(like say changing natalya from doing 400%more dmg to 600% more dmg and call it a day or whatever) and they'd be fine, for example. Well for the most part I guess DH is still squishy as shit even with all the dmg reduction stuff. And Crusader will stay garbage tier until they rework the class or add a really OP set I think, class' a disaster.

Anyway point is, if you play in a group and you have good gear, you need to do GRs to have any fun, because T10 is too weak. It's better than if they had left it up to T6 for sure(god it'd be terrible) but still not good enough I feel. Maybe T12 or so would be a decent amount, equal to GR55.
Addnan
Member
(09-14-2015, 09:00 AM)
If it wasn't for the cube after 973 paragons my ancient Gavel count would be ZERO :|


Rerolled this in the cube last night.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
(09-14-2015, 09:11 AM)
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Slowly getting there with my Ancients. Two pieces of my Uliana set, both weapons, Hellfire amulet and Focus are ancient now. =D Still need the proper belt for my build, though, but not going to complain all things considered. =D
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
(09-14-2015, 10:12 AM)
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Okay so I rolled a barb and I'm running the rend build.

I kind of hate it... The fury issues are too much for me at the level I'm playing.

Honestly my only goal is to hit solo GR 60. I hit 55 with my Crusader and I feel like that was the wall for her, so I'm going Barb.

Is the whirlwind build fun?
IceMarker
Member
(09-14-2015, 10:23 AM)
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I'm leaving for a couple days and we're close enough to 20k, so here's the new |OT3|!

To think it took us a year and half to hit 20,000 posts.
Radec
Member
(09-14-2015, 10:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nokterian

Got starmetal kukri yesterday as a drop..how are the odds of this dropping? Very low so far i heard of it was also a ancient but i added it to my cube anyway very happy with this now i just need mask of jeram.

Pretty low drop rate. But it isn't a best in slot in cube for Docs Furnace is (same with Barbs, Wiz, Crusader)

I'm still looking for one for a Zuni build.

But if you want to climb the leaderboards, Helltooth is the easiest way.
Liferebooted
Banned
(09-14-2015, 07:25 PM)
Am I farming gear wrong? 30+ hours on my Wiz and I'm still stick at like gr10 and T1 solo. I've mainly just been spamming t1 rifts for drops, spending shards at kadala and everytime I finally get 25 breaths I try rolling a yellow into a legendary\set item with no luck. So far I'm using 2pc of like 2-3 different sets instead of getting stuff I actually need =\
Dahbomb
Member
(09-14-2015, 07:32 PM)
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LOL @ changing Nat's set from 400 to 600.

The main thing they gotta do in the short term is to maintain some hardcap on where they want the highest power level to be. Right now GR70 is that number and they shouldn't be introducing stuff that allows existing builds to push past that... otherwise you have even more power creep.

So them buffing up stuff like Marauders or Delseres to where they can do high GR60s is a good thing. Gives more options and flexibility to the classes.
Shouta
Member
(09-15-2015, 04:26 AM)
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Are the Act cache crafting materials limited to 3 regardless of Torment level?

I want to get some real quick on Torment 1 but I wanted to confirm, lol
Gotchaye
Member
(09-15-2015, 04:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shouta

Are the Act cache crafting materials limited to 3 regardless of Torment level?

I want to get some real quick on Torment 1 but I wanted to confirm, lol

You get four per cache starting at (I think) T7.

New Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1111739

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