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CTLance
(04-19-2017, 01:23 PM)
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I have to admit, with figurative mushroom clouds rising above the horizon all around us as of late, returning to this thread has an outright therapeutic effect on me. Shit's still fucked proper, but somehow it's healing to watch Brexit implode in slow-mo - despite being part of the clusterfuck. Kinda like the Coyote in Roadrunner during that moment of calm when he notices where the rope tied to his ankle leads (and that he won't be able to undo the knot in time).

Gotta say though, the state of the opposition in the UK is something else. What a bunch of damp, mouldy cunts. It's absolutely mindblowing that nobody from the opposition managed to exploit this ongoing crisis for political gain.
Alx
Member
(04-19-2017, 01:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by CTLance

Kinda like the Coyote in Roadrunner during that moment of calm when he notices where the rope tied to his ankle leads (and that he won't be able to undo the knot in time).

Lol, I won't be able to get rid of that mental image...
8bit
Knows the Score
(04-19-2017, 04:10 PM)
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For any avoidance of doubt, or other obtuseness :

European Union agencies must be based in the EU. The decision to relocate EU agencies based in the UK is not part of the Brexit negotiations.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
(04-19-2017, 04:11 PM)
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I'd post a zany meme, but this stuff is getting really old really fast.
oti
Member
(04-19-2017, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by 8bit

For any avoidance of doubt, or other obtuseness :



https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657

Go away with your LOGIC.

Duuuuuuuuuuuh
PdotMichael
Banned
(04-19-2017, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by 8bit

For any avoidance of doubt, or other obtuseness :



https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657

EU once again with both sides damaging behaviour!
oti
Member
(04-19-2017, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Funky Papa

I'd post a zany meme, but this stuff is getting really old really fast.

I'll post it for you.

Jackpot
Member
(04-19-2017, 04:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by 8bit

For any avoidance of doubt, or other obtuseness :



https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657

That's not fair, you can't bring facts into a debate! How am I supposed to continue living in my bubble?
Kyougar
Member
(04-19-2017, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by 8bit

For any avoidance of doubt, or other obtuseness :



https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657

those EU bastards, trying to steal from hardworking englishmen
Tacitus_
Member
(04-20-2017, 08:12 AM)
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https://www.ft.com/content/f224b684-...1-d5f7e0cd0a16

EU officials say there will be no freeze on EU spending through structural or regional funds, as these are implemented via UK authorities rather than directly through an EU body. The commission has said it will stand by funding promises to Northern Ireland, for instance.

But in other direct funding areas the tighter approach is beginning to pinch. Brussels has already stipulated that any contracts in the latest phase of work on the €10bn Galileo satellite navigation system can be cancelled without penalty if the supplier is no longer based in an EU member state.

A final section calls on EU staff to encourage the private sector to prepare immediately for the “legal repercussions” of Britain leaving the bloc and losing the rights of member states.

Examples that private parties may want to consider include “requirements, according to EU law, for marketing authorisation holders or registrants to be established in the EU or to have an office in the EU”.

Companies moving data cross-border are also encouraged to consider their legal arrangements, should a data transfer deal with Britain prove impossible.

The data access negotiations could prove to be a headache for the UK.
Melon Husk
Member
(04-20-2017, 08:19 PM)
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

Exclusive: European parliament president Antonio Tajani says process could easily be reversed if election brings in new British government

“If the UK, after the election, wants to withdraw [article 50], then the procedure is very clear,” he said in an interview. “If the UK wanted to stay, everybody would be in favour. I would be very happy.”

“If tomorrow, the new UK government decides to change its position, it is possible to do,” said Tajani. “The final decision is for the 27 member states, but everybody will be in favour if the UK [decides to reverse article 50].”

The Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, said Tajani’s remarks show “that contrary to Theresa May’s claims, it’s not too late to prevent a divisive, hard Brexit”.

Fat chance but nice to know I guess!
Last edited by Melon Husk; 04-20-2017 at 08:21 PM.
oti
Member
(04-20-2017, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Melon Husk

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

Exclusive: European parliament president Antonio Tajani says process could easily be reversed if election brings in new British government




Fat chance but nice to know I guess!

A fun new twist!
Calabi
Member
(04-20-2017, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Melon Husk

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

Exclusive: European parliament president Antonio Tajani says process could easily be reversed if election brings in new British government




Fat chance but nice to know I guess!

Yeah good to know, but we havent got a second chance because our politics wont give us that alternative, but at least theres a chance.
Joni
Member
(04-20-2017, 09:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Melon Husk

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

Exclusive: European parliament president Antonio Tajani says process could easily be reversed if election brings in new British government

Fat chance but nice to know I guess!

It was to be expected. It will come at the cost of some waivers Cameron had negotiated, but there is no reason for the EU to be vindictive if the UK wants to undo its decision.
Frankfurter
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Melon Husk

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

Exclusive: European parliament president Antonio Tajani says process could easily be reversed if election brings in new British government




Fat chance but nice to know I guess!


EU continues to be the good cop in this "game" ;)
Xando
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:28 AM)
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European Commission wants UK to pay Brexit costs — in euros

The European Commission wants Britain to pick up the tab for any costs related to its departure from the EU, such as the relocation of agencies now hosted by the U.K., and bear the currency risk by paying in euros, according to a draft of Brussels’ negotiating plan.

The hard line for the Brexit talks, laid out in a draft of the Commission’s detailed negotiating directives obtained by POLITICO, also includes tight protections for EU citizens and the EU budget, robust legal controls for any transitional phase for U.K. withdrawal, and clear guarantees for businesses whose goods go on the market before the “divorce” is finalized.

But it is the Commission’s approach to the U.K.’s ongoing financial obligations to the EU that stands out in the document, suggesting that Brussels wants to make it very clear that leaving the bloc doesn’t come cheap.

“The United Kingdom should fully cover the specific costs related to the withdrawal process such as the relocation of the agencies or other Union bodies,” the Commission wrote, adding that the U.K.’s financial obligations to the EU “should be defined in euro” rather than sterling.

The Commission’s directives, which will provide a careful roadmap for the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier, can only be adopted once leaders of the remaining 27 EU member countries have approved broader guidelines now being developed by the European Council. The 27 will meet to discuss those guidelines at an extraordinary summit in Brussels on April 29.

But even as the Council’s draft guidelines were being revised and reviewed by diplomats in Brussels and in capitals across the Continent, officials at the Commission have been hard at work on the more detailed directives, under the close supervision of Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, his chief-of-staff, Martin Selmayr, as well as Barnier and his team.

Guess that was inevitable with how "flexible" the pound is at the moment
Last edited by Xando; 04-21-2017 at 11:31 AM.
Halph n Halph
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frankfurter

EU continues to be the good cop in this "game" ;)

I'm getting more of an abused spouse vibe.
" I know he comes home every night full of Stella and smashes up the house , but I love him "
D4Danger
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:43 AM)
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The United Kingdom should fully cover the specific costs related to the withdrawal process such as the relocation of the agencies or other Union bodies

how is this our problem again?
Kyougar
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

how is this our problem again?

you are kicking the agencies out after the EU was so nice and built it in the Uk with EU money. Now we have to relocate them and build it elsewhere. Its a big hassle.
*Splinter
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

how is this our problem again?

That bit sounds like nonsense to me, too. I can understand the EU choosing to move those agencies after we leave, but why would we pay for them to do so?

Originally Posted by Kyougar

you are kicking the agencies out after the EU was so nice and built it in the Uk with EU money. Now we have to relocate them and build it elsewhere. Its a big hassle.

We aren't kicking the agencies out. As far as I know the EU could choose to leave those agencies in the UK even after we leave (although obviously they won't do that).
Halph n Halph
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kyougar

you are kicking the agencies out after the EU was so nice and built it in the Uk with EU money. Now we have to relocate them and build it elsewhere. Its a big hassle.

Kicking them out ?
TimmmV
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by *Splinter

That bit sounds like nonsense to me, too. I can understand the EU choosing to move those agencies after we leave, but why would we pay for them to do so?


We aren't kicking the agencies out. As far as I know the EU could choose to leave those agencies in the UK even after we leave (although obviously they won't do that).

Because the EU paid for those buildings in the first place, and are forced to relocate them as a consequence of the UK leaving the EU

Originally Posted by *Splinter

We aren't kicking the agencies out. As far as I know the EU could choose to leave those agencies in the UK even after we leave (although obviously they won't do that).

Originally Posted by Halph n Halph

Kicking them out ?

In reality they will be though, the EU cant really have these agencies in countries that dont offer free movement to EU citizens
Last edited by TimmmV; 04-21-2017 at 11:58 AM.
DarthMasta
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:59 AM)

Originally Posted by D4Danger

how is this our problem again?

It's not your problem in any sense other than the EU might make it so over any trade deal.
Xando
Member
(04-21-2017, 12:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

how is this our problem again?

It probably isn't (unless there are some contractual obiligations) but the EU can make it a UK problem during the negotiations.
TeddyBoy
Member
(04-21-2017, 12:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

how is this our problem again?

It's a good negotiating point, very minor and something people will be willing to concede later.
Kyougar
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by *Splinter

That bit sounds like nonsense to me, too. I can understand the EU choosing to move those agencies after we leave, but why would we pay for them to do so?


We aren't kicking the agencies out. As far as I know the EU could choose to leave those agencies in the UK even after we leave (although obviously they won't do that).

Originally Posted by Halph n Halph

Kicking them out ?


You voted leave, thats "kicking out" everything that has to do with the EU.
Orniletter
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:08 PM)
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You could say the EU wants it's money back .
Halph n Halph
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orniletter

You could say the EU wants it's money back .

Can the UK get its money back as well then?
*Splinter
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyougar

You voted leave, thats "kicking out" everything that has to do with the EU.

1. Actually I didn't, thanks

2. Unless there is some (not self-imposed) rule saying that EU institutions must be based within the EU, us voting to leave the EU doesn't force them to move those agencies anywhere. I fully expect they will move the agencies even if they have to bare the costs of doing so, but that decision is entirely their's to make.


That said, (I think) I understand other posters who pointed out that they will make it a negotiation point just because they can.
TimmmV
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Halph n Halph

Can the UK get its money back as well then?

Thats an entirely reasonable thing to ask yeah.

The problem of going down that road is that then the UK has to negotiate the current value of 40 or so years of UK investment, which just adds more things to negotiate in a very small window of time.

Originally Posted by *Splinter

1. Actually I didn't, thanks

2. Unless there is some (not self-imposed) rule saying that EU institutions must be based within the EU, us voting to leave the EU doesn't force them to move those agencies anywhere. I fully expect they will move the agencies even if they have to bare the costs of doing so, but that decision is entirely their's to make.


That said, (I think) I understand other posters who pointed out that they will make it a negotiation point just because they can.

The majority of these rules are going to be ultimately self-imposed, they just happen to differ from the UKs own self-imposed rules

The point is whether its remotely practical for the EU to run an agency in a country that is no longer in the EU, given that the UK will not have free movement for EU citizens anymore, and presumably be operating under its own set of standards and laws.

Not to mention that the UK would then continue to see the benefits of having the agency being based here, which EU countries would miss out on despite being the ones that pay for the agency to keep running.

With that in mind its entirely reasonable that the EU would want to relocate things from the UK to a country that is going to continue to contribute something towards them (and therefore recoup relocation costs from the country forcing the relocation in the first place - the UK)
Last edited by TimmmV; 04-21-2017 at 01:45 PM.
DiGiKerot
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by *Splinter

1. Actually I didn't, thanks

2. Unless there is some (not self-imposed) rule saying that EU institutions must be based within the EU, us voting to leave the EU doesn't force them to move those agencies anywhere. I fully expect they will move the agencies even if they have to bare the costs of doing so, but that decision is entirely their's to make.

I'd imagine the argument with point 2 is that, presumably, the proper functioning of these agencies would require the free movement of staff from the UK into Europe and vis-versa. Any potential issues, or interruptions, or new Visa requirements, that would prevent this from happening as a result of leaving the EU does effectively force them to move the agencies in question, else they fail to do the thing they are intended to actually do.
Stallion Dan
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Melon Husk

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

Exclusive: European parliament president Antonio Tajani says process could easily be reversed if election brings in new British government

Fat chance but nice to know I guess!

Over half of a record high vote turnout voted Brexit, who is seriously gonna campaign to reverse it?
DarthMasta
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:29 PM)

Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

Over half of a record high vote turnout voted Brexit, who is seriously gonna campaign to reverse it?

Calm down, he isn't seriously suggesting it, it'd take a couple of months for UKIP and the newspapers to drum up "Brexit 2, this time it's personal, let's show homo Olympian fencers where they can stick their EU".
Muffin1611
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

Over half of a record high vote turnout voted Brexit, who is seriously gonna campaign to reverse it?

You mean a slight majority with two out of four union members voting for it, being fueled by lies on the side of a bus and their most important concern, "immigration"?

But yeah, don't see anyone campaigning for it. Nobody that could make a difference, at least.
Halph n Halph
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

Over half of a record high vote turnout voted Brexit, who is seriously gonna campaign to reverse it?

The Lib Dems are , it's just difficult to get them to admit it.
Huw_Dawson
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Halph n Halph

The Lib Dems are , it's just difficult to get them to admit it.

Current policy is a referendum on the final deal with an option to remain.

If the Lib Dems won the GE, then all bets are off.
Halph n Halph
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Halph n Halph

The Lib Dems are , it's just difficult to get them to admit it.

Originally Posted by Huw_Dawson

Current policy is a referendum on the final deal with an option to remain.

If the Lib Dems won the GE, then all bets are off.

Go on mate just admit it . You're amongst friends here ;)
Walshicus
(04-21-2017, 06:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

Over half of a record high vote turnout voted Brexit, who is seriously gonna campaign to reverse it?

There's still time to reverse this fucking idiocy. Can't blame the damned from hoping.
Joni
Member
(04-21-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

Over half of a record high vote turnout voted Brexit, who is seriously gonna campaign to reverse it?

The party smart enough to realize that most other parties are vying for that 51% in a system where you could have a majority with 49% of the vote.
Who would be so dumb to try to aim for the brexit crowd that both UKIP and the Tory are already claiming.
BigAl1992
Member
(04-22-2017, 12:50 AM)
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Cross posting from this thread;

Trump puts EU ahead of Britain in trade queue
Merkel lands Brexit victory for Brussels

Britain has been pushed behind the European Union in the queue to strike a free-trade deal with the United States, officials in Washington have said.

President Trump has softened his opposition to negotiating with the bloc as a whole after attempts by his officials to open talks with individual European nations were rebuffed.

During a private conversation last month, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, convinced Mr Trump that talks on a US-EU deal would be simpler than he thought, sources close to both sides of the discussion told The Times.

This led to a “realisation” in the Trump administration that a trade deal with the EU — allowing the tariff-free exchange of goods and services — was more important to US interests than a post-Brexit deal with Britain, a source close to the White House said.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade deal between the EU and US, shelved after Mr Trump’s election victory, could now be revived or a new deal proposed.

The EU is America’s biggest trading partner: US exports to the bloc last year were worth $270 billion; it imported goods worth $417 billion. In the same period the US exported $55 billion in goods to Britain and imported $54 billion.

The development threatens to embarrass Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, who after meeting Mr Trump’s advisers in January claimed that Britain would be “first in line” for a deal. A year ago Barack Obama warned that the UK would be at “the back of the queue” if it left the EU. Speaking alongside David Cameron in London, he said: “Maybe at some point down the line there might be a UK-US trade agreement but it’s not going to happen any time soon.”

Mr Trump’s change of heart has been put down to Mrs Merkel’s intransigence. After her trip to Washington, she briefed cabinet colleagues on what she said were “very basic misunder- standings” by Mr Trump on the “fundamentals” of the EU and trade.

“Ten times Trump asked her if he could negotiate a trade deal with Germany. Every time she replied, ‘You can’t do a trade deal with Germany, only the EU’,” a senior German politician said. “On the eleventh refusal, Trump finally got the message, ‘Oh, we’ll do a deal with Europe then.’ ” Cecilia Malmström, the EU’s trade commissioner, will visit Washington next week for informal talks with Wilbur Ross, the US commerce secretary, and other Trump officials. The EU and Mrs Malmström are keen not to appear to plead for the reopening of TTIP negotiations but will discuss the “economic and strategic rationale” for a deal if the American side does the same.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...ueue-l7t8zwn7k

And obligatory gifs for such occasion;



oti
Member
(04-22-2017, 10:54 AM)
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Knock knock.
Who's there.
REALPOLITIK.
sammex
Member
(04-22-2017, 11:28 AM)
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Amazing coincidence it's exactly a year to the day that Obama said we were back of the line.

Anyway, this made me chuckle.

Halph n Halph
Member
(04-22-2017, 12:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by sammex

Amazing coincidence it's exactly a year to the day that Obama said we were back of the line.

Anyway, this made me chuckle.

Lol
Where's your Basil Fawtly stiff upper lip man ?
That image should be in the OP.
Last edited by Halph n Halph; 04-22-2017 at 12:12 PM.
8bit
Knows the Score
(04-22-2017, 01:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by *Splinter

That bit sounds like nonsense to me, too. I can understand the EU choosing to move those agencies after we leave, but why would we pay for them to do so?


We aren't kicking the agencies out. As far as I know the EU could choose to leave those agencies in the UK even after we leave (although obviously they won't do that).

No, they can't. Those agencies must be located in the EU. If the UK is no longer in the EU, then those agencies cannot stay there.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657
CyclopsRock
Member
(04-22-2017, 05:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by 8bit

No, they can't. Those agencies must be located in the EU. If the UK is no longer in the EU, then those agencies cannot stay there.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...87528254918657

Is that a legal requirement or is it just what the Commission wants?
Muffin1611
Member
(04-22-2017, 05:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by CyclopsRock

Is that a legal requirement or is it just what the Commission wants?

https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...ed-agencies_en

Didn't find a specific law on it, but it says here that decentralised agencies are based across the EU. I'd also imagine that they'd need to since they operate under European public law.

If anyone finds the legislation on it, feel free to link it.
PJV3
Member
(04-22-2017, 06:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by CyclopsRock

Is that a legal requirement or is it just what the Commission wants?

Are there any others outside the EU already?
8bit
Knows the Score
(04-22-2017, 06:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by CyclopsRock

Is that a legal requirement or is it just what the Commission wants?

(As far as the EMA is concerned) It's a legal requirement. I assume the same for the EBA.
Xando
Member
(04-26-2017, 01:46 PM)
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Some new developments today:


German lawyers think even a transitional deal would have to pass the bundestag (and therefore probably other parliaments aswell):

BERLIN — Negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU could be even more fraught than previously thought — because national parliaments may also be involved.

That’s one of the conclusions of an analysis by the research service of the German parliament, the Bundestag, and it’s backed by a senior MP in Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats.

If the national parliaments of the 27 countries remaining in the EU — and perhaps also some regional parliaments — are all to get a say, it could make the passage of the Brexit deal more complex and leave less time for the actual negotiations.

It’s generally agreed that the “divorce deal,” setting out the arrangements for Britain’s departure from the EU, can be sealed by Brussels and London. But Britain’s new relationship with the bloc is a different matter.

The EU has suggested an initial deal would not need the approval of parliaments in member countries, as it would be only temporary — to be replaced by a more comprehensive trade agreement at a later date. The German government backs this view “with the explicit reservation that this will be reviewed at a later point in time,” according to the 10-page Bundestag analysis, dated March 27 and obtained by POLITICO.

But the analysis also states that if the deal “is being ‘loaded up’ with competencies of the member states, this would turn it into a mixed agreement [affecting both EU and national legislation], which would require unanimity in the European Council and the ratification of all member states for it to be sealed, according to our current evaluation.”

And then also this:

EU to exclude financial services from post-Brexit deal

The EU intends to exclude the financial services sector from a trade deal with the UK after Brexit, according to the latest tweaks in the EU's draft negotiating guidelines. EU citizens must also be granted permanent residency in the UK after 5 years of living there.
The new text spells out that any free trade deal that would allow the City of London, Europe’s leading financial centre, continued access to EU markets would require that Britain continues to respect the EU's regulatory and supervisory standards.
It serves a blow to British prime minister Theresa May, who has called an election for 8 June. In the letter she sent to the EU to notify UK's exit, she argued for an ambitious free trade agreement that covers financial services.
However, France, Germany and other countries are looking to attract financial companies to Paris and Frankfurt, and other cities once the UK leaves the single market with Brexit.
An earlier version only said that the future trade agreement should "not endanger financial stability in the Union and encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages".
The new line was agreed by EU advisers to head of state and governments on Monday (24 April) in a preparatory meeting ahead of the Brexit summit on Saturday (29 April), according to Reuters.
In another change in the draft guidelines, the EU wants to secure the right to acquire permanent residency in the UK for EU citizens who have continuously lived in the UK for five years, Bloomberg reported.
The EU has already said in its guidelines that "agreeing reciprocal guarantees to safeguard the status and rights derived from EU law" for EU and UK citizens caught up in the process "will be the first priority for the negotiations" for the bloc.
The new draft of the EU 27 will be discussed at a political level by European affairs ministers on Thursday, for a final preparation of Saturday's summit.

oti
Member
(04-27-2017, 08:35 AM)
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BREAKING: Germany's Merkel: Britain must engage in 'constructive dialogue' with the EU about Brexit before negotiations can start.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/857498158854811648

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