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WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis

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Effect

Member
Putting all the pointing and laughing aside, I don't understand this info.

For all the people who are laughing it up, how is Wii U able to run ME3, AC3, BlopsII, etc? How is it able to run X?

And don't be jackass and say "poorly lol," that's not the goddamn point. Those games, for the most part run fine and I'm not sure how that's possible.

As a layman, I don't understand what's going on here one bit.

This . This is an issue with Nintendo's past consoles as well. On paper they look one way but the end result is something different. See the GameCube..hell all their systems. Why people are acting as if that's not the case here (with all the customization going on) I don't understand. The games speak for themselves. If the system was as weak as some claim and/or are wishing how is it it's able to run the games it does now and as well as it does with the power the system is pulling? How is it that games coming look as good as they do and in the case of X have the scale that it does?

Something is clearly missing here. The question is what and if we'll ever know.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Since noone really said that this wrong, i'll ask:

Is that really possible...?

It's not that it's wrong. It's that this piece of silicon doesn't just have the same subsections of a standard GPU. There is a fair bit more. We don't know what those bits do or how it helps the overall performance of the chip.

It's a unique design.
 
Do we know all fixed functions (especulated) space are for GC/Wii BC?

Looking at the chip, its a very very tight space to even accommodate the Wii's Hollywood. Don't get me wrong, fixed function will definitely *help* but not nearly enough of a degree to overturn the implications of the design. All IMO

Putting all the pointing and laughing aside, I don't understand this info.

For all the people who are laughing it up, how is Wii U able to run ME3, AC3, BlopsII, etc? How is it able to run X?

And don't be jackass and say "poorly lol," that's not the goddamn point. Those games, for the most part run fine and I'm not sure how that's possible.

As a layman, I don't understand what's going on here one bit.


Its not weak, its squarely in the same ballpark as the 360 and ps3. Nothing more.

Its weaker than our expectation. And I think we can pretty much drop the "half-assed port" bit because its quite close to the other two in architecture.
 
Useful in what way?

It gives a good idea of the graphical aspects that Nintendo wanted to focus specifically on, which in turn shows what we should expect from them. It also provides some concrete information on the specs, so we can determine how feasible it is to migrate or develop a game for the Wii U.
 

Meelow

Banned
Somewhere between 100% and none?

Do some of the people in this thread posting strong opinions realize they're making asses of themselves?

So what does this all mean?

Wii U GPU is not good or Wii U GPU is a big mystery and takes a lot from GameCube?
 

evangd007

Member
Since noone really said that this wrong, i'll ask:

Is that really possible...?

Possible, but not probable. While it's based on the R700, it's far too customized to make any assumptions like that.

Of course, that post being the third in the thread, it will be oft-quoted and taken as 100% fact.
 

Portugeezer

Member
Putting all the pointing and laughing aside, I don't understand this info.

For all the people who are laughing it up, how is Wii U able to run ME3, AC3, BlopsII, etc? How is it able to run X?

And don't be jackass and say "poorly lol," that's not the goddamn point. Those games, for the most part run fine and I'm not sure how that's possible.

As a layman, I don't understand what's going on here one bit.

I agree, if it were as bad as some people make out then these half assed ports should run worse than they do, no?

Some people are also full of crap though.
 

joesiv

Member
Anyone got any high resolution Wii/GC die X-rays? I can only find crappy ones online. Maybe we can play eye spy and see what functional chunks from that die are also on the Wii U's.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
So what does this all mean?

Wii U GPU is not good or Wii U GPU is a big mystery and takes a lot from GameCube?
It means that people who are in this thread not for the lulz are largely scratching their heads over this otherwise totally non-custom design.
 

Margalis

Banned
Somewhere between 100% and none?

Do some of the people in this thread posting strong opinions realize they're making asses of themselves?

It's too late. This thread is already garbage.

I don't understand the point of posting the image instead of just PMing it to people who care and know enough for it to be useful. We're right back to multipliers and other stupid shit, only now people can point to a photo they don't understand and with no explanation whatsoever pretend it's proof of whatever they want to believe.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
Yea, if half the chip wasn't being used.

There is a lot of custom metal in latte, will it ever be possible to know what it is capable of?

Not without nintendo saying the rest, and none of the big 3 spill all the beans on the customizing they have done to pc parts they have borrowed from. We can assume but that's ballpark not totally exact.
 

Diablos54

Member
It's too late. This thread is already garbage.

I don't understand the point of posting the image instead of just PMing it to people who care and know enough for it to be useful. We're right back to multipliers and other stupid shit, only now people can point to a photo they don't understand and with no explanation whatsoever pretend it's proof of whatever they want to believe.
New news = New Thread. Even if said thread ends up going to shit.
 

AzaK

Member
So...theoretically it's between a 360 and PS3, while the Durango and Orbis will be 8x~ more powerful at least?

In terms of FLOPs? Did I get that right?

Not really. We don't know if the SIMD's have 20 shaders or 40 per block.

$200 dollars and we still don't have any concrete conclusion...
We got the money back, Chipworks did it for free.

Based on FLOPs alone, it's weak as hell. But luckily, we are rational human beings and know that FLOPs mean nothing when it's a GPU that's highly customized as this.

Are you assuming 170ish GFLOPS is weak or 340? Because we don't know which it is.

New news = New Thread. Even if said thread ends up going to shit.

It'd be really nice if not all threads on a forum went to shit. This is why the GTTV piece will be interesting (The threads will be sublime for that) because, well NeoGAF is full of shit stirrers. It's a reputation well deserved.
 

artist

Banned
It's based on Caicos ... ugh.

capturep9bkb.png
 
That was pretty damn awesome of Chipworks to chime in, and go beyond their usual process, for free, as opposed to just happily taking the money for their standard photos. I mean, it is their business after all.

$200 dollars and we still don't have any concrete conclusion...
The money wasn't actually spent, and it would've been much more than $200 originally.
 
How much of this chip is wasted so it can run Wii software?
Not even a single transistor won't be used when on WiiU mode. Let's be serious here, if the Wii BC hardware was meant to be used ONLY on the Wii mode, then you would have the entire Wii Hollywood GPU scaled down in a corner a la ARM CPU.
But that was said even by Iwata, that they merged the Wii parts with the WiiU parts so they could use them to emulate Wii, and also to process WiiU graphics.

Wii had fixed-function self-shadowing, fixed-function embm, other T&L functions that could be replied through the ALUs or still be there in some magnified way that makes them free to use.

What we know is that it seems there are 176GFlops or theoretical raw power to use as developers wish, and then a bunch of fixed functions to implement some effects in a much more efficient way.

Don't doubt even for a moment that if putting a miniaturized version of the Wii Hollywood on here and then throwing double or triple the ALUs (it could be possible if you look at the die size they occupy) would give better results, Nintendo would have done it, because it would be a FAR CHEAPER solution that what we have here.

So if they went that route, it mean that they know they can achieve MUCH BETTER results, and I'm sure we will see a glimpse of those results at this E3.
Even the X trailer showed some manners, and some general quality unachievable on PS360, despite some other things were below that mark.
 

ASIS

Member
Allow me to ask another question then, why is Nintendo going for "custom" design that is so hard to get while the compeitiors' GPU is easily understandable? What's the advantage in Nintendo's strategy?
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
$200 dollars and we still don't have any concrete conclusion...

Well, we learned a lot. For start, is not just a down-clocked r700 GPU. 400+ SP counts seem to be extremely unlikely. it appear to have an additional pool of 3MB of EDRAM, worst case is just for BC purpose and non accessible while in Wii U mode.
 

Earendil

Member
Somewhere between 100% and none?

Do some of the people in this thread posting strong opinions realize they're making asses of themselves?

I'm reserving judgement until we actually understand what this chip does. Because right now it just looks like a bunch of brown squares.
 
I'm baffled why this is even necessary.

There are countless developers on this board alone who have worked with the Wii U surely.

Hasn't s single developer thought screw it, lets spill the beans?
 
How are you counting? I'm legit curious, no BS.

It's likely a guess based on the assumption that the GPU uses unmodified VLIW5, assuming 40 ALUS per shader unit, with the 8 shader units shown in the photo. Given the enigmatic nature of the chip, it's a valid conjecture, even if it may be wrong in the end.
 

amaron11

Banned
Allow me to ask another question then, why is Nintendo going for "custom" design that is so hard to get while the compeitiors' GPU is easily understandable? What's the advantage in Nintendo's strategy?

Why did Sony do what they did with the PS3?

They both thought it would fit their ideal model of what they wanted the console to be.

I don't think it's any deeper than that.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Allow me to ask another question then, why is Nintendo going for "custom" design that is so hard to get while the compeitiors' GPU is easily understandable? What's the advantage in Nintendo's strategy?

Yup. To my non expert eye it looks like Nintendo not giving a crap about third parties..again.
 
$200 dollars and we still don't have any concrete conclusion...


We now know that what most of us have speculated anout the gpu is completely wrong.

The general accepted assumption of the wii U gpu was that it was mostly an off the shelf part with some small redesigns to add EDRAM and wii backward compatibility. This assumption was completely off base.

What we have now is a truly interesting chip.
 
I'm baffled why this is even necessary.

There are countless developers on this board alone who have worked with the Wii U surely.

Hasn't s single developer thought screw it, lets spill the beans?

Nope, that's why we know way better Durango and Orbis specs months before they even got released and we are still in the dark regarding Wii U.
 

Durante

Member
Allow me to ask another question then, why is Nintendo going for "custom" design that is so hard to get while the compeitiors' GPU is easily understandable? What's the advantage in Nintendo's strategy?
Well, one major point is perfect backwards compatibility (which neither Orbis nor Durango are likely to offer). It would seem like that impacted the design even more than some (certainly me) expected.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I'm baffled why this is even necessary.

There are countless developers on this board alone who have worked with the Wii U surely.

Hasn't s single developer thought screw it, lets spill the beans?

Nope. They would lose their jobs and probably never work in the industry again. Also possible legal prosecution.
 

evangd007

Member
I'm baffled why this is even necessary.

There are countless developers on this board alone who have worked with the Wii U surely.

Hasn't s single developer thought screw it, lets spill the beans?

That's a great way to get sued for breaking NDA. Or for disappearing when the ninjas get to you.
 

Clefargle

Member
None of this is terribly surprising, ninty isn't competing with MS or Sony and more than they are high end PC rigs. I'm sure there will be beautiful 60fps 720p games and even some at full 1080p eg. Nano Assault Neo. That's enough for the avg consumer.
 

McHuj

Member
On the bright side, it does show you how dated the architectures of PS3/360 are when the WiiU can get comparable (and I;m sure better performance in some case) in such a small power envelope and die size.
 
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