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Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(04-20-2017, 11:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Endorphineforeverybody

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850e

The Review some of you were waiting for.

31,34 ms lag 1080/4k

Sony is awesome, excellent response times + BFI in game mode.

Edit: also 1080p @ 120Hz. Awesome!

Did you hear this, Samsung?
theifofdreams
Member
(04-20-2017, 11:30 PM)

Originally Posted by Insane Metal

Sony is awesome, excellent response times + BFI in game mode.

Edit: also 1080p @ 120Hz. Awesome!

Did you hear this, Samsung?


Doesnt this just mean soap opera effect, or is there some other reason to get excited for this?
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(04-20-2017, 11:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by theifofdreams

Doesnt this just mean soap opera effect, or is there some other reason to get excited for this?

No, BFI is used to reduce motion blur. It actually works quite well when the implementation is decent. Which usually is the case for Sony TVs.
theifofdreams
Member
(04-20-2017, 11:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Insane Metal

No, BFI is used to reduce motion blur. It actually works quite well when the implementation is decent. Which usually is the case for Sony TVs.

Sorry, i was actually meaning the 180p @ 120hz, I forgot to put that in my post. Thats good to know about though, because my dad is looking into getting a new Sony and he loves sports.
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(04-20-2017, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by theifofdreams

Sorry, i was actually meaning the 180p @ 120hz, I forgot to put that in my post. Thats good to know about though, because my dad is looking into getting a new Sony and he loves sports.

I see :)

1080p@120Hz is good for use as a computer monitor.
theifofdreams
Member
(04-20-2017, 11:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Insane Metal

I see :)

1080p@120Hz is good for use as a computer monitor.

gotcha, thanks!
Mr. Wonderful
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(04-21-2017, 12:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by vpance

2016 SUHD Samsung TVs will get an update for HDR10+ in the second half of 2017. Also Amazon partnership



F DV 😁🖕

Between HLG support already being added, and now HDR10+, this is so good on Samsung.

I REALLY hope Sony follows suit for ALL, not just SOME, of their 2016 models.
georaldc
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(04-21-2017, 12:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by theifofdreams

Doesnt this just mean soap opera effect, or is there some other reason to get excited for this?

No soap opera. 120hz is great if you've ever used a 120hz monitor on a PC. Everything just looks and feels so fluid. Watching an actual 120hz video is also interesting because of how smooth it can look like.

Originally Posted by Insane Metal

Sony is awesome, excellent response times + BFI in game mode.

Did you hear this, Samsung?

Don't the ks8000 TVs use BFI when enabling the LED Clear Motion setting? I don't remember if it's available too in game mode because my ks9000 doesn't even seem to use BFI in the first place with the Clear LED Motion option (which doesn't really make much sense to me when the other model has it??)
Last edited by georaldc; 04-21-2017 at 12:18 AM.
Yawnny
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(04-21-2017, 12:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by KevinG

I just want to be able to host around 20 people in my living room for a movie night...

20 people? That's a house party!
Aztechnology
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(04-21-2017, 01:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by theifofdreams

Doesnt this just mean soap opera effect, or is there some other reason to get excited for this?

No in this case we can actually take advantage of 120hz on devices like PC.

Samsung has a native 120hz panel as well but doesn't display anything over 60 even with custom resolution. LG and Sony are supporting it now so hopefully Samsung follows suit soon.

4k@120hz even if your not actually running the game at 4k but 1440p or something instead would be awesome.
longdi
Banned
(04-21-2017, 01:38 AM)
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So PC input 4K HDR 60hz at 4:4:4 is now possible for 2017 sets?
Maybe time to buy a 4K TV as my monitor.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wonderful

Between HLG support already being added, and now HDR10+, this is so good on Samsung.

I REALLY hope Sony follows suit for ALL, not just SOME, of their 2016 models.


If Sony will just do this for the 900e, I will be happy.
Madness
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(04-21-2017, 01:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by holygeesus

I think that line of thinking is kinda why people questioned buying an Xbox S for UHD playback a few pages back. If you are going to pay big money for a TV, why then feed it with a (arguably) substandard source?

That is just it though. Anecdotally I cannot convince anymore than anyone else. But there is a gulf of difference between looking at a LG budget 4K television and an LG OLED C7. But for UHD playback, there is few to negligible differences with noise, stuttering, speed being the biggest issues, not picture quality. So, and I say this as we are on a gaming forum, if you want to watch 4K UHD discs and there is negligible differences, why wouldn't you look at the Xbox One S. I will probably buy a Sony standalone later this year, and then post pics side by side, I am in a lot of tech threads, I have no reason to lie, I could not really tell a difference when watching Mad Max UHD on my KS8000 using the Xbox One S and when I watched it with my cousins husband on his KS8000 but his Oppo player, both calibrated identically. Maybe if both were side to side I could say hmmm the Oppo has better color reproduction, better fine detail, but it was near identical and yet the price difference is hundreds of dollars. This black friday you will probably see with Scorpio launch, Xbox One S marked down to $149 probably. Anyways this debate has gone on too long. People should just do what they want. Cannot convince anyone of anything.

Originally Posted by Shift Breaker

I've been looking for something on the budget end for 4K TVs. Seen a Sony KD43X8305CBU at Costco for around £540, anyone got one, know what it's like? Looking to just get the most out of my PS4 Pro, it's a 2015 TV so I'm not sure about the HDR capabilities and Google is a little conflicting.

Hold off. The 43" X800E is coming which will drop the X800D possibly in price. You want something that does decent HDR and has low input lag too.
Last edited by Madness; 04-21-2017 at 04:32 PM.
KevinG
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(04-21-2017, 02:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yawnny

20 people? That's a house party!

Haha. Yeah.

I'm a youth pastor, and we like to host movie nights at our house. They pack our place out, but it's always a good time. This is the first movie night since we got the OLED.

Previously we were all watching movies on a 40" old tv, and I can't comprehend how I watched movies on that small of a screen for so long.
TLZ
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(04-21-2017, 02:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by theifofdreams

Awesome, thanks!

Don't forget it's curved.

Some people don't like that. But you're in for 3d so not much choice there.
Art Vandilay
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(04-21-2017, 02:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by KevinG

Haha. Yeah.

I'm a youth pastor, and we like to host movie nights at our house. They pack our place out, but it's always a good time. This is the first movie night since we got the OLED.

Previously we were all watching movies on a 40" old tv, and I can't comprehend how I watched movies on that small of a screen for so long.

I can relate. I had a 46" for a 4-5 years and just moving up to a 55" feels way better. My next TV will be a 65", but even 55" feels like a major upgrade.
theifofdreams
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:46 AM)

Originally Posted by TLZ

Don't forget it's curved.

Some people don't like that. But you're in for 3d so not much choice there.

I actually really like the look of the curved screen. I'm just not sure if I should wall mount it or keep it on the stand now. I was mostly concerned that the image quality would be worse, because the B6 was so well reviewed, but that seems to not be the case.
Ocho
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(04-21-2017, 04:51 AM)
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I gotta say Abstract, the design documentary on Netflix, looks fucking fantastic with Dolby Vision.
Rhazer Fusion
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(04-21-2017, 05:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by wege12

After seeing how well the Sony OLED handles motion while gaming compared to my B6, I must say I'm a bit jealous.

Well considering that the Sony OLED costs like 2 to 3 times as much as the B6, I would hope it would improve in some areas by a considerable margin.
holygeesus
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(04-21-2017, 06:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rhazer Fusion

Well considering that the Sony OLED costs like 2 to 3 times as much as the B6, I would hope it would improve in some areas by a considerable margin.

I didn't notice a massive difference if I'm being honest. Also, if you turn on the processing with the Sony, you are going to get a lot of increased input lag. I can't see me upgrading my B6 this generation. It still makes me happy every time I use it.
DieH@rd
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(04-21-2017, 08:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aztechnology

I love all these sets supporting 1080@120hz now. Give me HDMI 2.1 Freesync and 120hz support for higher resolutions and I'll dump my KS8000 in a heartbeat.

Yeah, it's such a shame no TV manufacturer is supporting Freesync.

HDMI 2.1 can't come soon enough.
DieH@rd
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(04-21-2017, 08:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Madness


Hold off. The 43" X800E is coming which will drop the X800D possibly in price. You want something that does decent HDR and has low input lag too.

This did not happen in Europe. 43XD8005 was resplaced by 43XE8005, which only made 43XD8005 more expensive and hard to find.

I'm trying to get one for 2 months now with no luck. Those rare shops that have it have priced it 850€+
wege12
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 09:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by holygeesus

I didn't notice a massive difference if I'm being honest. Also, if you turn on the processing with the Sony, you are going to get a lot of increased input lag. I can't see me upgrading my B6 this generation. It still makes me happy every time I use it.

You're lucky you don't notice the difference because to me it's night and day. There's a very good chance I'll sell my B6 for a 2018 or 2019 OLED.
holygeesus
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(04-21-2017, 10:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by wege12

You're lucky you don't notice the difference because to me it's night and day. There's a very good chance I'll sell my B6 for a 2018 or 2019 OLED.

I might think differently if I were to see it in the flesh, but the videos of gaming I've seen don't look much different. I don't play many 2D side scrolling games though, which might show motion issues more. I don't know.
mitchman
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(04-21-2017, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by KevinG

I suspect I won't upgrade from my B6 for at least 5 years.

I keep saying that too, but I've never been able to hold off longer than 3 years buying a new TV. So I expect 2 years this time :)
KevinG
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(04-21-2017, 02:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by mitchman

I keep saying that too, but I've never been able to hold off longer than 3 years buying a new TV. So I expect 2 years this time :)

Buying the B6 was a big convince of my wife, so I think I'll be hanging on to it as the primary set unless it completely dies on me before that 5 years is up.

Also highly considering paying the $170 ish to pay for the extended warranty that would cover 4 years.
Daante
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(04-21-2017, 02:20 PM)
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Sony A1 OLED review:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1492757435

Lag:

"We measured input lag to approximately 40 ms in game mode regardless of whether HDR is active or not, which is about twice as high as the fastest TVs out there. We don’t yet have the equipment to upscale our Leo Bodnar lag sensor, so we can’t test input lag in 4K, but others report that lag is actually reduced when the TV doesn’t have to upscale. Lag should allegedly come in at about 20 ms, which is far more acceptable, but in turn it requires a game console capable of delivering 4K resolution (meaning PS4 Pro only). Since we can’t confirm the measurement ourselves we have to leave you hanging on this one.

Input lag performance compares to that of Z9D and X93E. Overall it is a pleasure to play games in HDR on an OLED panel. Read our reviews of Xbox One S and PS4 Pro for a deep-dive into HDR gaming.


Conclusion:

In the picture department OLED rises above anything else and A1 is no exception. Gray scales are reproduced with conviction and A1 manages to separate even the darkest tones. We measured a slight offset on colors and the lack of a CMS made it impossible for us to correct it. The OLED panel delivers peak brightness only slightly higher than last year’s models and placed side-by-side we suspect that few people would be able to spot the difference on a 100% white background. Where the A1 does move past LG’s E6 is in motion handling and image processing. Upscaling/motion is more convincing on A1 that builds on the same great motion engine that Sony also employed in Z9D and X93E.

Sony A1 underperforms compared to LG E6 in some areas (OS and speed), performs almost identical in others (homogeneity and color reproduction), and outperforms in yet another (image processing and motion). Overall Sony’s A1 is a step up from the highly acclaimed LG E6 mostly because it offers improved motion clarity and processing that some have been asking for.

As the first 2017 OLED on our bench, Sony A1 is worthy of our Reference Award. Time will tell if LG and Panasonic’s 2017 OLED TVs can match or even surpass A1."


Pros:
Outstanding for HDR
Reference image quality
Great image processing
Best motion system for OLED so far
Good and innovative sound system

Cons:
Android doesn't live up to full potential
Poor remote
Vertical bands on darker grey tones
Mediocre input lag
High power consumption in standby
Last edited by Daante; 04-21-2017 at 02:37 PM.
dallow_bg
nods at old men
(04-21-2017, 02:28 PM)
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Seems like it could use a CMS after all.

Great review those though. Very little holding back the A1E. It's a sweet TV.
BumRush
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(04-21-2017, 03:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Daante

Sony A1 OLED review:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1492757435

Lag:

"We measured input lag to approximately 40 ms in game mode regardless of whether HDR is active or not, which is about twice as high as the fastest TVs out there. We donít yet have the equipment to upscale our Leo Bodnar lag sensor, so we canít test input lag in 4K, but others report that lag is actually reduced when the TV doesnít have to upscale. Lag should allegedly come in at about 20 ms, which is far more acceptable, but in turn it requires a game console capable of delivering 4K resolution (meaning PS4 Pro only). Since we canít confirm the measurement ourselves we have to leave you hanging on this one.

Input lag performance compares to that of Z9D and X93E. Overall it is a pleasure to play games in HDR on an OLED panel. Read our reviews of Xbox One S and PS4 Pro for a deep-dive into HDR gaming.


Conclusion:

In the picture department OLED rises above anything else and A1 is no exception. Gray scales are reproduced with conviction and A1 manages to separate even the darkest tones. We measured a slight offset on colors and the lack of a CMS made it impossible for us to correct it. The OLED panel delivers peak brightness only slightly higher than last yearís models and placed side-by-side we suspect that few people would be able to spot the difference on a 100% white background. Where the A1 does move past LGís E6 is in motion handling and image processing. Upscaling/motion is more convincing on A1 that builds on the same great motion engine that Sony also employed in Z9D and X93E.

Sony A1 underperforms compared to LG E6 in some areas (OS and speed), performs almost identical in others (homogeneity and color reproduction), and outperforms in yet another (image processing and motion). Overall Sonyís A1 is a step up from the highly acclaimed LG E6 mostly because it offers improved motion clarity and processing that some have been asking for.

As the first 2017 OLED on our bench, Sony A1 is worthy of our Reference Award. Time will tell if LG and Panasonicís 2017 OLED TVs can match or even surpass A1."


Pros:
Outstanding for HDR
Reference image quality
Great image processing
Best motion system for OLED so far
Good and innovative sound system

Cons:
Android doesn't live up to full potential
Poor remote
Vertical bands on darker grey tones
Mediocre input lag
High power consumption in standby

Thanks for posting this. I think it is performing as most have suggested it would, although you'd think Sony would make sure their input lag was the lowest of the OLEDs.

I really wish RTINGS wouldn't buy their own units sometimes. They're usually last or one of the last to review something.
Beer Monkey
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:14 PM)

"We measured input lag to approximately 40 ms in game mode regardless of whether HDR is active or not, which is about twice as high as the fastest TVs out there. We donít yet have the equipment to upscale our Leo Bodnar lag sensor, so we canít test input lag in 4K, but others report that lag is actually reduced when the TV doesnít have to upscale. Lag should allegedly come in at about 20 ms, which is far more acceptable, but in turn it requires a game console capable of delivering 4K resolution (meaning PS4 Pro only). Since we canít confirm the measurement ourselves we have to leave you hanging on this one.

I'm real skeptical about this. Placebo effect and all. Upscaling has turned into a bit of a bogeyman.
longdi
Banned
(04-21-2017, 03:20 PM)
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Sony android OS is bloody slow compared to webOS, tons of lag even scrolling through system menu, just be warned
Prisoner KSC2-303
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(04-21-2017, 03:20 PM)
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Sounds like Sony are still leading the pack when it comes to motion handling and upscaling.
dallow_bg
nods at old men
(04-21-2017, 03:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by longdi

Sony android OS is bloody slow compared to webOS, tons of lag even scrolling through system menu, just be warned

Android OS is definitely terrible on TVs.
Jigolo
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(04-21-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Android OS is the worst of the main TV os systems out there. Sony needs to scrap it
Gitaroo
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:20 PM)
not if you can run Kodi natively... Android tv also have a lot of pros. Sony just need to put a better SoC than those cheapo outdated mediatek Soc that barely runs in 1080p.

Originally Posted by BumRush

Thanks for posting this. I think it is performing as most have suggested it would, although you'd think Sony would make sure their input lag was the lowest of the OLEDs.

I really wish RTINGS wouldn't buy their own units sometimes. They're usually last or one of the last to review something.

considering the new Android M update that just came out for the earlier 2016 models actually made the input lag worse than before, now @75ms in 4K. I don't think Sony understand what gaming tv means. They still shamelessly advertise those TV as made for 4K gaming last holiday season, totally incompetent.
Last edited by Gitaroo; 04-21-2017 at 04:25 PM.
Madness
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(04-21-2017, 04:52 PM)
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Double post somehow.
Last edited by Madness; 04-21-2017 at 06:05 PM.
Madness
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(04-21-2017, 04:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jigolo

Android OS is the worst of the main TV os systems out there. Sony needs to scrap it

No. Way better than Tizen which is very poor. Sure it looks nicer and is faster but has a fraction of the useability of Android OS or app support. No twitch, no Kodi support on Tizen. You cannot disable or delete apps you don't want.

LG WebOS is so great is because they bought the great Palm OS, HP WebOS when HP/Palm and their Touchpad went under. Suited perfectly for televisions. But this years Samsung Tizen OS models are adding ads to your OS. Plus if you have an Android smartphone, or account, you can get a ton of music and movies through your shared Google Play store. Sony just needs to make it feel more like a TV OS rather than a tablet OS put on televisions.

Also, 40ms is still a good input lag for Sony first OLED reattempt. Almost all of their televisions have been under 40 ms this year with the X930E being like 25ms when they were routinely above 50ms from 2015 to mid 2016. I wonder if like the B6 which LG dropped from 60 ms to like 20 something MS whether Sony can reduce their input lag as well.

Gotta wait for the rtings A1E review now. For those who had a B6 prior to the update, did you even really notice a massive difference while gaming at 60ms?
holygeesus
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(04-21-2017, 05:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Madness

For those who had a B6 prior to the update, did you even really notice a massive difference while gaming at 60ms?

I really did yes. I wasn't expecting to though I will admit. 40ms isn't really a deal breaker either way, especially as going forward, most gaming machines are going to be pumping out a 4K signal (as the PS4 Pro already does)

If Sony are managing 30ms at 4K that seems damn good when you couple that with the other positives of the set.
Gitaroo
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Madness

Sony just needs to make it feel more like a TV OS rather than a tablet OS put on televisions.

Unfortunately that will never happen because google do not allow custom UI for android TV to maintain consistency to avoid what happens to the phone market. Google just need to design better stock Android TV UI for others to follow. Other than that, it is probably the most useful thing in the smart tv market consider how many people buy external media box, like roku sticks, xiaomi box etc. Android TV can do all of that without any additional hardware.
Gray-Fox
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(04-21-2017, 05:10 PM)
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whats the veridict on P-65 for gaming after all these updates over the past few months?
Yawnny
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(04-21-2017, 05:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Art Vandilay

I can relate. I had a 46" for a 4-5 years and just moving up to a 55" feels way better. My next TV will be a 65", but even 55" feels like a major upgrade.

Indeed. I felt like 55" would be too big in my space, but now I could easily go 65" and wall mount it to move it back just a touch.
Kyoufu
(04-21-2017, 05:49 PM)
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That site listed the A1E's input lag as a con, but if you're playing on PS4 Pro or XB1S/Scorpio then it doesn't affect you. So hmm.
Beer Monkey
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Kyoufu

That site listed the A1E's input lag as a con, but if you're playing on PS4 Pro or XB1S/Scorpio then it doesn't affect you. So hmm.

What percentage of gamers do you think are currently playing on consoles that output 4K 100% of the time?

It is a con, period.
Kyoufu
(04-21-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beer Monkey

What percentage of gamers do you think are currently playing on consoles that output 4K 100% of the time?

It is a con, period.

What percentage of people paying a premium for an OLED TV are not going to use a Pro, XB1S, Scorpio, or a 4K capable PC? PS5 in the future? 40ms isn't even bad for 1080p so I don't see how it's a con.
Lima
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(04-21-2017, 06:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beer Monkey

What percentage of gamers do you think are currently playing on consoles that output 4K 100% of the time?

It is a con, period.

If you play on PS4 Pro/Xbox One s or in the future Scorpio you always output 4k so you get the lower lag. And if you buy an Oled and have a regular Xbox one or a amateur PS4 I have to question your sanity.
tokkun
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(04-21-2017, 06:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lima

If you play on PS4 Pro/Xbox One s or in the future Scorpio you always output 4k so you get the lower lag. And if you buy an Oled and have a regular Xbox one or a amateur PS4 I have to question your sanity.

What about people who own a Switch? How about people wanting to play games on previous generation systems? How about the NES Classic? How about people using retro game upscalers? All insane too?
Beer Monkey
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:26 PM)

Originally Posted by Lima

If you play on PS4 Pro/Xbox One s or in the future Scorpio you always output 4k so you get the lower lag. And if you buy an Oled and have a regular Xbox one or a amateur PS4 I have to question your sanity.

I'll be hooking up an OSSC and classic consoles, also PS3 etc. Will buy a Switch this fall too.

Currently I have hooked up to my Kuro:

i7 PC with GTX 1060
Analogue NT Mini (for playing NES, SMS, Atari 2600, etc in 1080p)
Wii U
PS3
PS4 Pro
Xbox 1
SNES + OSSC

It is crowded! I play them all.

I will of course hook them all up to my OLED. Will replace Wii U with Switch at some point.
Caayn
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(04-21-2017, 06:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lima

If you play on PS4 Pro/Xbox One s or in the future Scorpio you always output 4k so you get the lower lag. And if you buy an Oled and have a regular Xbox one or a amateur PS4 I have to question your sanity.

Why?
Lima
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(04-21-2017, 06:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by tokkun

What about people who own a Switch? How about people wanting to play games on previous generation systems? How about the NES Classic? How about people using retro game upscalers? All insane too?

Switch LUL

Could use your receiver to upscale to 4k which will add less lag but probably won't be on par with the Sony processing. Quality upscaling adds lag. Even then 40ms is hardly a deal breaker for some people. Would be for me but I ain't buying the A1.
ToD_
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(04-21-2017, 06:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lima

If you play on PS4 Pro/Xbox One s or in the future Scorpio you always output 4k so you get the lower lag. And if you buy an Oled and have a regular Xbox one or a amateur PS4 I have to question your sanity.

What the?

Originally Posted by Lima

Switch LUL

Ok
Last edited by ToD_; 04-21-2017 at 06:32 PM.

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