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shinobi602
Daddy Goggles Group™
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(01-08-2017, 05:15 AM)
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Slim pickings.
digoutyoursoul
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(01-08-2017, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Salty Hippo

Agree 100%. Spencer said it would be one of the MOST special E3s in Xbox's history. And the reason for that statement turned out to be a chipset shown in CG and "XTeraflops". It just shows a complete lack of touch with what is truly special in an E3 conference.

I know it's business, it's hard to make new ip and make it a success but when is the time creativity is stifled totally for the numbers.

Even IP gone by that could be resurrected, I don't know the situation with PGR but why not say to Turn10 or Playground "fancy giving this a try" we have had three Forza Horizon games in four years, as much as I respect Playground games is that really necessary? Just something new to break the monotony with a budget/backing a Forza game gets.

The same could be said to 343, we were supposed to be done with Chief with Halo 3 "Finish the fight" from Bungie. For all the staff that's there, even a small digital game that's not Halo, wouldn't that be something to get interest going?

I'm just glad Rare is getting to do Sea of Thieves and maybe resurrect an old ip after that.
MatrixMan.EXE
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(01-08-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

Sure they are factors but both those ip's were commercial failures, if they had of been first party studios that would have been a worse position to be in. Due to them not being first party that risk was avoided. I think this is ms trying to prevent failures like Lionhead etc.
But I do agree theirs only so many studios they can work with and they need to land on that next gears this generation and grab hold of it. I think Ori was that to a lesser extent.

Yeah, I see the logic behind doing it and it makes complete sense. I just feel like relying on that to the extent they are isn't smart, long term. At least, it's not smart if you want to grow new franchises and have a diverse line up of first party content, though it's starting to look as though the goal Microsoft has is to have reliable content with minimal risk. The failure of those aforementioned IP probably hasn't helped either.
Lord of Ostia
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(01-08-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nightengale

Second chances are tough. As far as we can guess, Ready at Dawn (Sony) & Remedy (MS) aren't getting any for under-delivering with Order/QB.

Who knows if Armature will get a second chance with a ReCore 2 or another MS project. My guess is not likely.

Yes, true. Yet when you invest in a studio, it's usually better to give them a few opportunities for success. It seems like Microsoft wasted their money on some of these smaller studios they acquired, then closed before the studios had a chance to produce much of anything. Sony closes studios as well, but the most recent ones are Liverpool and Evolution, and the genres those studios were known for have contracted while their games have been performing less and less well over time. I don't like the fact that Sony closed those studios (Liverpool especially) but I can see why they closed them. Microsoft's recent studio closures have me scratching my head.
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 05:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by DriftingSpirit

I'm not sure I follow.

What are you regarding as "second party" content?

Oh yeh sorry bad wording I meant reliance on second party studios rather than first party.
With sony or nintendo the large amount of first party studios means you know that they can always be working on new ip or releases in general. With Microsoft you have the issue that second party relationships like platinum can't be predicted.
Banjo-Kazooie
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(01-08-2017, 05:31 AM)
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Not sure who could be working on a new AOE or Rise of Nations. Skybox has been doing a decent job with the DLCs it seems, but I doubt they could make a new one from scratch. Hoping Creative Assembly can help with proper sequels after HW2, but I guess that might be a pipe dream.
jond76
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(01-08-2017, 05:34 AM)
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Forza Horizon is developed by Playground. Totally different set of folks than Turn 10.
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 05:41 AM)
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Isn't Playground games setting up a second team internally working on another open world game thats not racing. If so i don't think it's hard to assume that Microsoft is funding it, it would be a safe bet. With them already being in a second party relationship, ms knowing playground are amazing developers, and it would deeper tie playground as a xbox studio with ownership of horizon and the new ip. A second party studio held at first party ransom.
Figments
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(01-08-2017, 05:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Banjo-Kazooie

Not sure who could be working on a new AOE or Rise of Nations. Skybox has been doing a decent job with the DLCs it seems, but I doubt they could make a new one from scratch. Hoping Creative Assembly can help with proper sequels after HW2, but I guess that might be a pipe dream.

Just letting you know, you have Undead Labs set as the developer for Scalebound.

:P
willbsn13
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(01-08-2017, 05:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

Isn't Playground games setting up a second team internally working on another open world game thats not racing. If so i don't think it's hard to assume that Microsoft is funding it, it would be a safe bet. With them already being in a second party relationship, ms knowing playground are amazing developers, and it would deeper tie playground as a xbox studio with ownership of horizon and the new ip. A second party studio held at first party ransom.

Yeah they are working on a new game and it's not a racing game. (Not confirmed to be open-world though)

It’s going to be a huge year for us at Playground as we continue to transition over to becoming a two team, two project studio and develop our first game outside of the racing genre.

http://www.develop-online.net/opinio...n-2017/0227870
Last edited by willbsn13; 01-08-2017 at 05:49 AM.
digoutyoursoul
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(01-08-2017, 05:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by willbsn13

http://www.develop-online.net/opinio...n-2017/0227870

That's brilliant news imo

Looking forward to seeing what it is

(Pls don't be mobile)
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 05:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by digoutyoursoul

That's brilliant news imo

Looking forward to seeing what it is

(Pls don't be mobile)

Don't worry there not a Japanese developer /s
DriftingSpirit
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(01-08-2017, 05:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

Oh yeh sorry bad wording I meant reliance on second party studios rather than first party.
With sony or nintendo the large amount of first party studios means you know that they can always be working on new ip or releases in general. With Microsoft you have the issue that second party relationships like platinum can't be predicted.

Ah, I gotcha.
K.Jack
Knowledge is power, guard it well
(01-08-2017, 05:55 AM)
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That looks... abysmal.

Scalebound and Sea of Thieves better be amazing games.
Wedzi
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(01-08-2017, 06:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by shinobi602

Slim pickings.

krang
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(01-08-2017, 06:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

Isn't Playground games setting up a second team internally working on another open world game thats not racing. If so i don't think it's hard to assume that Microsoft is funding it, it would be a safe bet. With them already being in a second party relationship, ms knowing playground are amazing developers, and it would deeper tie playground as a xbox studio with ownership of horizon and the new ip. A second party studio held at first party ransom.

Do we really need another open world game?
Shiggy
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(01-08-2017, 06:09 AM)
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I think Rare is more like 100 employees these days, right?


But yeah, really looks like the gaming division doesn't have much backing from the Microsoft headquarters.
Lord of Ostia
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(01-08-2017, 06:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by krang

Do we really need another open world game?

They really need an RPG.
Tagg9
(01-08-2017, 06:12 AM)
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Yikes, outside of Gears, Halo, and Forza, it looks like they are completely reliant on third party partners for exclusive games. I'm really shocked that Microsoft isn't investing more money in expanding their studios.
Agnostic Priest
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(01-08-2017, 06:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by krang

Do we really need another open world game?

Why not?
Finaj
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(01-08-2017, 06:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tagg9

Yikes, outside of Gears, Halo, and Forza, it looks like they are completely reliant on third party partners for exclusive games. I'm really shocked that Microsoft isn't investing more money in expanding their studios.

Microsoft's different divisions tend to hold each other at gunpoint. Perhaps MS doesn't see their game division as profitable enough to warren new studios (just speculation, though).
Pocky4Th3Win
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(01-08-2017, 06:20 AM)
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Since when was State of Decay IP owned by MS? Thought Undead Labs owned it and MS just the publisher.
Figments
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(01-08-2017, 06:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lord of Ostia

They really need an RPG.

They don't need to pander to any specific genre whatsoever. This incessant clamoring for specific genres needs to stop. Microsoft should be looking to expand their portfolio in ways that highlights their differences, not simply try to appease a group of people.

Originally Posted by Agnostic Priest

Why not?

Because barely anyone that isn't Rockstar or CD Projekt or Bethesda has proven that they can make a believable open world game that isn't just jam-packed with needless filler.
krang
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(01-08-2017, 06:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Finaj

Microsoft's different divisions tend to hold each other at gunpoint. Perhaps MS doesn't see their game division as profitable enough to warren new studios (just speculation, though).

This is a decade old meme that needs to die.

Originally Posted by Figments

Because barely anyone that isn't Rockstar or CD Projekt or Bethesda has proven that they can make a believable open world game that isn't just jam-packed with needless filler.

To be fair, Playground are one of them that have. But the market is flooded with them, and they very rarely add to the experience, but at great expense to the development.
Last edited by krang; 01-08-2017 at 06:27 AM.
DriftingSpirit
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(01-08-2017, 06:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lord of Ostia

They really need an RPG.

Scalebound will help but they definitely could use more of those.

Originally Posted by Tagg9

Yikes, outside of Gears, Halo, and Forza, it looks like they are completely reliant on third party partners for exclusive games. I'm really shocked that Microsoft isn't investing more money in expanding their studios.

Considering the performance of Halo and Gears, it is should actually be expected. Their core franchises aren't doing well so building and expanding on shaky foundation would be asking for total collapse down the road. They can avoid a bunch of risk by teaming up with third parties.

That is just from the business perspective, of course. From my perspective as a consumer, it isn't exactly an enticing situation for someone like me who is completely indifferent toward their core IP.
Wedzi
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(01-08-2017, 06:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pocky4Th3Win

Since when was State of Decay IP owned by MS? Thought Undead Labs owned it and MS just the publisher.

It's owned by MS http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/...with-microsoft

Definitely part of Phil's M.O. to own IP and have other 3rd party developers make it. Same with Ori and the Blind Forest right? Which would explain why MS has little to no interest in creating new development studios along what they already have. Probably a good move forward if Xbox can't secure funding to create new studios. People need to remember just because Microsoft is a much larger and more success company than Sony overall, doesn't mean the budgets for Xbox and PlayStation are quiet the same. I would say PlayStation means a lot more to Sony's overall success than Xbox. Which might have something to do with the first party studio discrepancy.
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 06:34 AM)
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Rare must be far bigger than 150 employees, wasn't it 200 before a small number of layoffs that I assume with sea of thieves entering full production it would be back to 200. Also rare has a second studio in Fazley studios in Birmingham. Which was said to have 90 employess, which would put rare at close to 300. As well as Microsoft first party studios also usually heavily rely on outsourcing.
https://www.videogamer.com/news/rare...-second-studio
Zukkoyaki
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(01-08-2017, 06:36 AM)
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Lionhead still stings. Fable Legends ended up being one of the greatest gaming blunders in recent memory. It killed the studio without ever actually releasing (I know it's more complicated than that but we've seen interviews and such discussing it all). Should have been a proper Fable 4 and then let them be a new IP factory like Rare to spice-up their line-up.
SenjutsuSage
(01-08-2017, 06:39 AM)
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I'm so damn excited about that Halo TV series. Cannot wait, and I hope it's coming along well.
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 06:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zukkoyaki

Lionhead still stings. Fable Legends ended up being one of the greatest gaming blunders in recent memory. It killed the studio without ever actually releasing (I know it's more complicated than that but we've seen interviews and such discussing it all). Should have been a proper Fable 4 and then let them be a new IP factory like Rare to spice-up their line-up.

Lionhead was working on a new post apocalyptic ip
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/774/A...ionhead+games/
IbizaPocholo
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(01-08-2017, 06:44 AM)
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Looking at only these studios is very bad the situation.
Zukkoyaki
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(01-08-2017, 06:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

Lionhead was working on a new post apocalyptic ip
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/774/A...ionhead+games/

I knew they had a new IP in pre-production but that bit info is new to me. Such a shame.
Shiggy
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(01-08-2017, 06:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

Rare must be far bigger than 150 employees, wasn't it 200 before a small number of layoffs that I assume with sea of thieves entering full production it would be back to 200. Also rare has a second studio in Fazley studios in Birmingham. Which was said to have 90 employess, which would put rare at close to 300. As well as Microsoft first party studios also usually heavily rely on outsourcing.
https://www.videogamer.com/news/rare...-second-studio

Rare was around or less than 100 employees after the last Kinect Sports game. Sea of Thieves is a small (low budget) title with a not too big team either. The Fazeley studio was also closed as far as I see.

They were lucky not to get shut down completely after Kinect Sports Rivals.
Agnostic Priest
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(01-08-2017, 06:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Figments

They don't need to pander to any specific genre whatsoever. This incessant clamoring for specific genres needs to stop. Microsoft should be looking to expand their portfolio in ways that highlights their differences, not simply try to appease a group of people.



Because barely anyone that isn't Rockstar or CD Projekt or Bethesda has proven that they can make a believable open world game that isn't just jam-packed with needless filler.

I get it, but they are pretty familiar with open world might as well play it safe and stick to it. Who knows what kind of open world they are making, what if its an RPG?
vivekTO
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(01-08-2017, 06:53 AM)
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Good Thread!! waiting for this to happen. I looking forward to create my own thread , but after researching about the studios , i thought I am missing something, but it looks like its the only studios Microsoft Got.

Anyway much appreciated for the thread.
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 07:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

Rare was around or less than 100 employees after the last Kinect Sports game. Sea of Thieves is a small (low budget) title with a not too big team either. The Fazeley studio was also closed as far as I see.

They were lucky not to get shut down completely after Kinect Sports Rivals.

I wouldn't call a open world game small and its definitely not low budget, watching there youtube and seeing the amount of time that goes into making each island, with them wanting it to be this destiny style game you keep coming back to. This definitely is not small or low budget.

Also I can't find anything about Rares numbers being that low at all, all I see is a lot of hiring. Also with Shinobi saying that rare has a second game in development, it being described as a ip factory. That amount of employees would not make any sense at all.
Some of the job listings hinting at a story based game is very interesting as they have gone on record saying sea of thieves is not story driven quite the opposite actually, this would agree with shinobi and the fact they would need a large development staff especially on a story based (I assume single player game.)

Then again they could be heavily outsourcing like reagent with crackdown or relationships like iron galaxy with killer instinct and other rare ip's etc.
Last edited by JlNX; 01-08-2017 at 07:15 AM.
SenjutsuSage
(01-08-2017, 07:09 AM)
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Also, Microsoft always finds a way to greenlight great games. Just because we don't know too much about what they have planned now, doesn't mean something isn't coming. Everytime someone says Microsoft has nothing, and they are starved of first party studios, they always manage to come up with some interesting and exciting looking games regardless.

Sunset Overdrive
Quantum Break
Ori and the Blind Forest
Ryse (no secret that I really enjoyed this)
Halo 5 (expected of course, but didn't make it any less awesome)
Scalebound (which I hope comes together better than it has looked so far, but it's Platinum and Kamiya so I have faith)

And Microsoft's track record thus far of launching new systems and having solid games to support those releases is a pretty excellent one imo. I'm sure they got some exciting stuff planned to support the Scorpio release. The fact that it has to support the original xbox one doesn't change that. I think it gives them more freedom to take a few more risks since there is already a pretty sizable userbase on the Xbox One.
Shiggy
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(01-08-2017, 07:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by JlNX

I wouldn't call a open world game small and its definitely not low budget, watching there youtube and seeing the amount of time that goes into making each island, with them wanting it to be this destiny style game you keep coming back to. This definitely is not small or low budget.

Also I can't find anything about Rares numbers being that low at all, all I see is a lot of hiring. Also with Shinobi saying that rare has a second game in development, it being described as a ip factory. That amount of employees would not make any sense at all.
Some of the job listings hinting at a story based game is very interesting as they have gone on record saying sea of thieves is not story driven quite the opposite actually, this would agree with shinobi and the fact they would need a large development staff especially on a story based (I assume single player game.)

Believe what you want :)
TheUnsunghero26
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(01-08-2017, 07:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

Rare was around or less than 100 employees after the last Kinect Sports game. Sea of Thieves is a small (low budget) title with a not too big team either.

Source?
NoPiece
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(01-08-2017, 07:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Wedzi

I was thinking Slim's role in this one might fit the thread.



Originally Posted by SenjutsuSage

And Microsoft's track record thus far of launching new systems and having solid games to support those releases is a pretty excellent one imo. I'm sure they got some exciting stuff planned to support the Scorpio release. The fact that it has to support the original xbox one doesn't change that. I think it gives them more freedom to take a few more risks since there is already a pretty sizable userbase on the Xbox One.

I agree Microsoft has been great at supporting their console launches. But then they have petered out after a few years in all three of their consoles. So the question is whether they treat Scorpio like their fourth console and give it a big launch, or they treat it like a mid-cycle refresh.
Last edited by NoPiece; 01-08-2017 at 07:23 AM.
Shiggy
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(01-08-2017, 07:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheUnsunghero26

Source?

Check the Kinect Sports Rivals credits for example. That was the only game the soap was working on at that time.

Sea of Thieves is not even made by the entire studio now. Scope and the game's budget price should make it even more obvious.
Mass Effect
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(01-08-2017, 07:23 AM)
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It's about time someone made this thread.

I hope MS is planning to build up their internal studios. Or is at least looking at more partnerships a la Platinum or Insomniac.

And I'm also really curious as to what the future of Fable is going to be. I'm sure we will eventually get another one right?
Roberto Larcos
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(01-08-2017, 07:24 AM)

Originally Posted by Shiggy

I think Rare is more like 100 employees these days, right?


But yeah, really looks like the gaming division doesn't have much backing from the Microsoft headquarters.

Originally Posted by Shiggy

Rare was around or less than 100 employees after the last Kinect Sports game. Sea of Thieves is a small (low budget) title with a not too big team either. The Fazeley studio was also closed as far as I see.

They were lucky not to get shut down completely after Kinect Sports Rivals.

Originally Posted by Shiggy

Believe what you want :)

A Kinect game from 2014's credits isn't a great source for 2017 numbers.
JlNX
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(01-08-2017, 07:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

Check the Kinect Sports Rivals credits for example. That was the only game the soap was working on at that time.

Sea of Thieves is not even made by the entire studio now. Scope and the game's budget price should make it even more obvious.

The game has been listed as 60 dollars across the majority of stores, the only store that had it at forty was amazon Germany the others were price errors. And again I don't know were you are getting scope from. But they also have said they have not settled on a pricing model yet but described as a destiny like experience could mean 40 dollar base game with expansions and updates. We have heard of Microsoft wanting new ip's to be cheaper to get more people on board. (or like i said heavy outsourcing like reagent with crackdown)

Also it wouldn't take even a hundred people to make a kinect sports game. This would be around the time their teams were prototyping new ideas like sea of thieves, we heard about a lot of discarded rare protoypes.
Last edited by JlNX; 01-08-2017 at 07:33 AM.
Shiggy
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(01-08-2017, 07:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Roberto Larcos

Or, we'll believe sourced information.

Can you give us a source to back up any of these claims?

On mobile right now.
1. Check the credits for Kinect Shorts Rivals. That was the only game they were working on at that time so it gives a good indication of how big the studio was 2 years ago. Since then, there weren't massive hirings; seemingly just hiring to replace people who left.
2. Fazeley was to produce art assets for the UK teams and Avatars. With Rare no longer working on Avatars and internal Microsoft development downsized heavily, that was not needed anymore. You can try to find anyone who claims to still work at Fazeley. The Fazeley Studios also don't name Rare as one of the teams there anymore.
3. With Rare working on multiple smaller games with a total studio size of around 100 employees, it's more than obvious that Sea of Thieves is a smaller budget effort. The game's price also reflects this. Doesn't mean the game's quality will suffer from this.

Rare hasn't been a 200-250 man team for 6 or 7 years already.
Lord of Ostia
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(01-08-2017, 07:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Figments

They don't need to pander to any specific genre whatsoever. This incessant clamoring for specific genres needs to stop. Microsoft should be looking to expand their portfolio in ways that highlights their differences, not simply try to appease a group of people.



Because barely anyone that isn't Rockstar or CD Projekt or Bethesda has proven that they can make a believable open world game that isn't just jam-packed with needless filler.

Fine, let me rephrase. I would like for them to fund a AAA Western RPG. There's not a lot of companies with the ability to make such games, and I really enjoy them.
Oblivion
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(01-08-2017, 07:33 AM)
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343 has over 400 people on staff? :O
Shiggy
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(01-08-2017, 07:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Roberto Larcos

A Kinect game from 2014's credits isn't a great source for 2017 numbers.

Why? They didn't go on a hiring spree. If you make such assumptions, you need some evidence.


Originally Posted by JlNX

The game has been listed as 60 dollars across the majority of stores, the only store that had it at forty was amazon Germany the others were price errors. And again I don't know were you are getting scope from. But they also have said they have not settled on a pricing model yet but described as a destiny like experience could mean 40 dollar base game with expansions and updates. We have heard of Microsoft wanting new ip's to be cheaper to get more people on board. (or like i said heavy outsourcing like reagent with crackdown)

Oh, in Europe it's listed for 30 EUR, which is a more sensible approach for the game.


It seems like you two still believe that this is the Rare of 2007. The Studio has seen massive changes and an enormous downsizing over the past 10 years.
Roberto Larcos
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(01-08-2017, 07:39 AM)

Originally Posted by Shiggy

Why? They didn't go on a hiring spree. If you make such assumptions, you need some evidence.

I was looking for evidence of Fazely being shut down, because it seems weird that such a thing could occur without an article being written. Citing one game's credits for evidence of a second studio not existing isn't good evidence.

I've not searched LinkedIn for resumes for Fazely Devs. If anyone has an article, I'd be really interested in reading it.

Apologies if this comes off as hostile, that's not the intent at all.
Last edited by Roberto Larcos; 01-08-2017 at 07:41 AM.
Ombala
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(01-08-2017, 07:44 AM)
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Im glad someone made this thread it makes a good job in showing how lackluster MS support is outside its longrunning series.
And that is MS biggest problem tbh, we all know what to expect from them now.

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