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Gooster
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Scoops article
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/arti...ce=wptwitterus

This article is more about the stiff animations and performance issues than the bugs and save issues that tend to plague Telltale releases. They're not the main reasons I haven't touched whatever they've put out since Tales from the Borderlands, but I feel him that it's frustrating to see things don't change on that front.

Telltale's history of hobbled tech goes back a ways, too. A source told me that even as the company was riding the success of The Walking Dead, their engine didn't have a physics system. (Telltale has their own proprietary technology, it doesn't use Unity, Unreal, or something else off the shelf.) If a designer came up with a scene requiring a ball to roll across the floor, or a book to fall off a shelf, it had to be hand animated by someone, an enormous time and resource commitment.

It's my understanding that little has changed since, but Telltale didn't respond to my request for comment.

There are no GotG spoilers in the article.
kaioshade
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(04-21-2017, 04:19 PM)
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Is it actually hurting their sales though?
EvilKatarn
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(04-21-2017, 04:20 PM)
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This has been obvious for five years now.
chandoog
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(04-21-2017, 04:21 PM)
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It's amazing how TellTale have been getting away with this shit for the last few years. They keep getting approvals from these license holders to make the games based on established franchises and considering the quality they're more than likely very low budget projects so they probably turn over profits even at modest sales.
Reineldinho
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(04-21-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Looks like a very interesting reading, thanks OP. Will read at home later.

Based only on what you wrote: yes, definitively. I can tell you that my game buddies and me have stopped buying their games since Tales of the Borderlands for how catastrophic they were (performance wise). I can really see other people doing the same for the exact motives.
jennetics
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(04-21-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Man, Walking Dead came out in 2012? It feels like so much longer than 4-5 years ago.
Bluth54
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(04-21-2017, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by kaioshade

Is it actually hurting their sales though?

I haven't bought a telltale game in years despite the fact they work on a lot of IPs I like

If I do break down and buy one it's going to be when its heavily discounted during a Steam sale.
James Scott
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(04-21-2017, 04:23 PM)
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It's weird that they made a new/enhanced engine but it's still terrible. With all the games they crank out like a factory you'd think they would've invested more into it.
labx
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(04-21-2017, 04:24 PM)
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Read Ancient:

It's been four years since Telltale released The Walking Dead

holy hyperbole Batman.

I think that what hurts the most with Telltale games is their game plot rather than their game engine.

Game of Thrones and Batman were games with very weak plots. IMO
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(04-21-2017, 04:24 PM)
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So are they against using other engines because they don't want to pay any licencing fees or something (in regards to technology)?

I mean I get it, they own their own tech and they want to use it, but they're clearly limiting themselves here when they're gradually taking on more IPs that are broad in scope.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(04-21-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Their updated engine was a joke. Stuff like Tales from the Borderlands ran at 1080p and mostly 60 on the PS4 and looked nice because of that. The "new" engine just killed framerate and resolution while not looking any better.
NateDrake
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(04-21-2017, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by labx

Read Ancient: holy hyperbole Batman.

I think that what hurts the most with Telltale games is their game plot rather than their game engine.

Game of Thrones and Batman were games with very weak plots. IMO

Game of Thrones had a horrid plot but the engine did the game no favors. The visual style didn't suit Game of Thrones at all.
Tovarisc
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(04-21-2017, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bluth54

I haven't bought a telltale game in years despite the fact they work on a lot of IPs I like

If I do break down and buy one it's going to be when its heavily discounted during a Steam sale.

Or week after season is wrapped up and TT puts full season into -80% or equally absurd sale.

Even with "new engine" their games still look very dated and animations are stiff as hell.

Originally Posted by spindoctor

People keep buying the games so why exactly should Telltale care?

More or less why also Bethesda keeps reheating their ancient engine. Games are unstable, buggy and technologically behind, but they sell like bread.
spindoctor
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(04-21-2017, 04:26 PM)
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People keep buying the games so why exactly should Telltale care?
Pandy
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(04-21-2017, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by EvilKatarn

This has been obvious for five years now.

Yup.

The writing and franchises they have are decent, so as soon as I hear they're onto a new engine I'll give them a chance again, but for the time being I simply won't buy their games.
tim_pkmn89
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:27 PM)
Their engine was outdated in the Walking Dead Season 1. I still remember a scene where you were being chased by a hoard of zombies, and everything past the first two or three were low-res sprites.
DoctorFling
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(04-21-2017, 04:27 PM)
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"Starting"?
Poohblaster
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:28 PM)
At the rate Telltale churns out games, I'm not sure they have the time needed to animate characters at a high level. It's possible that tech isn't the problem, but the time and patience it takes to animate characters well.
Fuchsdh
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(04-21-2017, 04:28 PM)
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I personally haven't run into any bugs or save game issues with any Telltale games I've played (Walking Dead S1/S2, Wolf Among Us, JP, Minecraft: Story Mode.)

But I definitely agree that the stutters and animations aren't great for games in 2017 now, and when you're making games defined by picking choices and watching them unfold that's a pretty big immersion-breaker. It's kind of hard to justify buying one of their games full price (I never have) because the mechanicals seem so shoddy.
Aklamarth
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:29 PM)

Originally Posted by NateDrake;

the engine did the game no favors. The visual style

It's good engines don't have visual styles . They (engines) get blamed for all the shit these days.
JoeNut
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(04-21-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by kaioshade

Is it actually hurting their sales though?

Yes, i won't buy them because they're bascially broken from what i've read.
Abounder
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(04-21-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ezekial45

So are they against using other engines because they don't want to pay any licencing fees or something (in regards to technology)?

I mean I get it, they own their own tech and they want to use it, but they're clearly limiting themselves here when they're gradually taking on more IPs that are broad in scope.

That and why spend months learning and retooling your dev pipeline for a new engine when what you have is good enough? Telltale pumps out games and DLC like they going out of style so a new engine would just slow the money train down

But I do agree that their engine is holding their IPs back, in my opinion they have some of the ugliest art style and animations around
Weebos
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(04-21-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by jennetics

Man, Walking Dead came out in 2012? It feels like so much longer than 4-5 years ago.

Yeah, this was my takeaway from the article as well.
benicillin
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(04-21-2017, 04:29 PM)
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I mean TWD S3 and Guardians are still leagues ahead of where they were with TWD S2 or Batman. You can tell that there's been a big upgrade in what they're able to do.

But at the end of the day they're making $20-$25 dollar licensed games that all share an engine to help maximize profits. Most of the people working for them are probably writers.

The way the games played have never bothered me, Batman was probably the most janky their games have ever gotten for me and TWD S3 and GotG have both been solid so far.
slit
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(04-21-2017, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

People keep buying the games so why exactly should Telltale care?

Resting on your laurels is a bad business philosophy. I do know more people are starting to notice how dated their game mechanics are. I don't know if it has hurt their sales yet but it will eventually.
see5harp
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:30 PM)
I applaud someone for saying something but jesus. They are people here who have been saying this for years. Every Telltale thread basically just turns into a joke with half of the posts talking shit.
Acquiescence
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(04-21-2017, 04:31 PM)
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I've kinda made it a point to stop playing cinematic games with shitty animation now. It's what's put me off of Telltale and Bioware games the past couple of years.
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(04-21-2017, 04:31 PM)
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Have they started to stick to a stricter release schedule for their episodes yet? That hurts just as much as their garbage engine.

Putting season passes on sale weeks after selling them at full price also doesn't help either.
heckmanimation
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:32 PM)
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its not just their tech, its their gameplay imo. advance that shit. innovate people. god!
Teletraan1
fuck those devs
cuz I'm down for my devs
(04-21-2017, 04:32 PM)
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Their tech has been garbage since the OG TWD release. While it was racking up broken saves and GOTY noms I shelved it and never bought anything from them again and never will until they actually change engines. I don't understand how they keep getting these IPs with the poor quality of their tech. Can nobody emulate what they are doing from a gameplay perspective with a modern engine? They seem ripe to have their lunch eaten.
Kyougar
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(04-21-2017, 04:33 PM)
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As long as there are no consistent good alternatives, they will not change it.

Until Dawn and Life is strange were great but there was no follow up.
At least TellTale gives us stories.
Hektor
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(04-21-2017, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by benicillin

I mean TWD S3 and Guardians are still leagues ahead of where they were with TWD S2 or Batman. You can tell that there's been a big upgrade in what they're able to do.

But at the end of the day they're making $20-$25 dollar licensed games that all share an engine to help maximize profits. Most of the people working for them are probably writers.

The way the games played have never bothered me, Batman was probably the most janky their games have ever gotten for me and TWD S3 and GotG have both been solid so far.

Telltale has over 350 employees
PlatypusDude
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(04-21-2017, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by labx

Read Ancient: holy hyperbole Batman.

I think that what hurts the most with Telltale games is their game plot rather than their game engine.

Game of Thrones and Batman were games with very weak plots. IMO

While Walking Dead came out not that long ago, the engine is still a modified version of the one they used way back in 2005 for Telltale Texas Hold'Em.
benicillin
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(04-21-2017, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

Have they started to stick to a stricter release schedule for their episodes yet? That hurts just as much as their garbage engine.

Putting season passes on sale weeks after selling them at full price also doesn't help either.

Batman was scheduled really well. The Walking Dead S3 had a big wait time between the initial release of the 1st and 2nd episodes and episode 3, but episode 4 is already out next week so it seems like they're back on track.

For the most part they've been pretty good.
Gooster
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(04-21-2017, 04:33 PM)
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I hadn't even realized the churn of releases the last, what, year? Two years? The Batman game was the one everyone was talking about but didn't even realize they put out a new TWD.
Taliban Stan
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:34 PM)
I've never understood why the performance is so bad (especially that first TWD series) given how the game doesn't seem super high res or all that taxing compared to other games that have a lot more going on visually.
Jazzem
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(04-21-2017, 04:35 PM)
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I guess they keep development as low cost as possible...I feel like that's the same for marketing too, Walking Dead s3 and GotG came out with seemingly very little fanfare.
xabbott
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(04-21-2017, 04:37 PM)
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I skipped GotG after playing Batman. It's just not acceptable anymore.
NateDrake
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(04-21-2017, 04:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aklamarth

It's good engines don't have visual styles . They (engines) get blamed for all the shit these days.

The game ran like shit. Those were meant to be two different points.
Last edited by NateDrake; 04-21-2017 at 04:42 PM.
Sini
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(04-21-2017, 04:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hektor

Telltale has over 350 employees

That's a lot of writers.
John Kowalski
#thor2thedarkworld
(04-21-2017, 04:39 PM)
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I would not trust any "but is it hurting the sales" people to run a business tbh.
The Albatross
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(04-21-2017, 04:40 PM)
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Anecdotally, I stopped purchasing TellTale games after Game of Thrones when I ran into the same terrible performance bugs that I had with the original Walking Dead release.

Also GoT was just a choice simulator with virtually no other gamey-ness. Walking Dead was a choice simulator, but less so, as it seemed to have more gameyness to it. IIRC, anything you did while controlling your character in GoT had no consequence on the story.
Last edited by The Albatross; 04-21-2017 at 04:43 PM.
takriel
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(04-21-2017, 04:41 PM)
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Don't buy their games people. Speak with your wallet.
tearsintherain
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(04-21-2017, 04:42 PM)
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Yeah I'm not buying any more Telltale games at msrp until they release a new engine, game of thrones was the breaking point for me as well (not to mention the story in that game was just awful).

They do drop in price insanely fast though and once or twice a year they release a bundle with all of their games for like 75% off. I did really enjoy Wolf Among Us, Borderlands, and the first Walking Dead but not so much the rest of their games.
Sciz
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(04-21-2017, 04:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by PlatypusDude

While Walking Dead came out not that long ago, the engine is still a modified version of the one they used way back in 2005 for Telltale Texas Hold'Em.

Yep. They were a ragtag group of castoffs from LucasArts with no budget back then, not the modern studio scoring major licenses left and right. The tech was whatever they could cobble together on the cheap.
Last edited by Sciz; 04-21-2017 at 04:45 PM.
StrongBelwas
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(04-21-2017, 04:43 PM)
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But where is Wolf Among Us season 2?
WaterAstro
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(04-21-2017, 04:43 PM)
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I haven't spent a dime on their games... except maybe through PS+ when it comes free...

Man, I was excited for the Game of Thrones Telltale, then I saw their atrocious version of the opening. They really don't try, do they.
Sgt. Kabukiman
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(04-21-2017, 04:44 PM)
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Last thing I bought from them was Batman episode 1 and that shitty looking game could barely run on my PS4. It's about time the press started taking Telltale to task. I can't believe their products still get good reviews, at least as far as the console versions are concerned.

Too bad, since I really liked Wolf Among Us.
TetraGenesis
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(04-21-2017, 04:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by kaioshade

Is it actually hurting their sales though?

I certainly don't buy TellTale games anymore.

It's funny how my perception of them has changed.

Post-Walking Dead, I thought of them as these bold, brilliant pioneers of the industry, doing what no one else seemed capable of.


Now I just view them as a joke.
ElBoxyBrown
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(04-21-2017, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Teletraan1

Their tech has been garbage since the OG TWD release. While it was racking up broken saves and GOTY noms I shelved it and never bought anything from them again and never will until they actually change engines. I don't understand how they keep getting these IPs with the poor quality of their tech. Can nobody emulate what they are doing from a gameplay perspective with a modern engine? They seem ripe to have their lunch eaten.

Yes but Telltale is a brand that studios and the majority of people know.

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