-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
- Status
So my ambitious re-reading of all 4 books before the release of Dance didn't exactly pan out. I'm about 3/4s of the way through Storm of Swords with Dance sitting on my desk beckoning me to crack it open and take a peak.
And since Dance came out, I've avoided this thread like the plague lest I accidentally get spoiled but the part where Joffery chokes to death has really been nagging at me. Now what I gleaned from the book is that Sansa's hairnet had amethysts that were poisoned with the same stuff that Maester on Dragon Stone tried to kill Melisandre with. When the Queen of Thorns fixes Sansa's hairnet, she plucks a amethyst from one of the clasps (which Sansa finds later to be missing) and drops it into giant chalice Joffery is drinking out of causing him to choke. And I think in Feast when they do the autopsy, a piece of pie isn't found in his throat to further prove he was poisoned. Tyrion at the end of the book just says, "I killed your son" to Jaime as revenge for the whole thing that happened to him with that girl when he was 13.
Anyway, my question is why did they have to go through all the hoops of giving Sansa the hairnet with the poison, making sure she wore it and making sure Joffery got close to her during the wedding? It seems overly complicated where a lot of things could have gone wrong. Why couldn't the Queen of Thorns simply have had the poison in hand and dropped it in when she went to congratulate Joffery and Margery?
And since Dance came out, I've avoided this thread like the plague lest I accidentally get spoiled but the part where Joffery chokes to death has really been nagging at me. Now what I gleaned from the book is that Sansa's hairnet had amethysts that were poisoned with the same stuff that Maester on Dragon Stone tried to kill Melisandre with. When the Queen of Thorns fixes Sansa's hairnet, she plucks a amethyst from one of the clasps (which Sansa finds later to be missing) and drops it into giant chalice Joffery is drinking out of causing him to choke. And I think in Feast when they do the autopsy, a piece of pie isn't found in his throat to further prove he was poisoned. Tyrion at the end of the book just says, "I killed your son" to Jaime as revenge for the whole thing that happened to him with that girl when he was 13.
Anyway, my question is why did they have to go through all the hoops of giving Sansa the hairnet with the poison, making sure she wore it and making sure Joffery got close to her during the wedding? It seems overly complicated where a lot of things could have gone wrong. Why couldn't the Queen of Thorns simply have had the poison in hand and dropped it in when she went to congratulate Joffery and Margery?
Basileus777
Member
Sansa haiving the poison in her hairnet contributes to the framing of her and Tyrion. Littlefinger was in on this plot and wanted to take Sansa away for his own purposes.
elrechazado
Banned
I was a defender of dany chapters in the other books, but 90% through with adwd and I couldn't be less interested in these stupid chapters. All of these ghiscari have the same name, I'm not remotely interested in this area of the world, these stupid court politics, the slave cities, or any of it.
Yeah I was telling my girlfriend, who has just started GOT, the same thing. It's especially bad because we know she's eventually going to end up in Westoros, so all of this is pointless filler bullshit anyway. It sucks because I love Dany so much, but I always groan when I come upon her chapters.elrechazao said:
Basileus777
Member
Dany's problem in this book is that it feels like a case of character serving the plot, not vice versa. She is so incredibly dumb and blind that it feels out of character, like GRRM had to have her act a certain way to force the plot in a particular direction.
Jon's sudden decision to leave the Wall felt the same way. Jon has been agonizing and struggling over his vows for 4 books, and in a few paragraphs decides to essentially become a deserter? There was no pathos or reflection that you would expect to accompany that decision. After all of his struggles to stay faithful to the watch he got a letter and was like yo i'm going south.
Jon's sudden decision to leave the Wall felt the same way. Jon has been agonizing and struggling over his vows for 4 books, and in a few paragraphs decides to essentially become a deserter? There was no pathos or reflection that you would expect to accompany that decision. After all of his struggles to stay faithful to the watch he got a letter and was like yo i'm going south.
An admiral without ships, a hand without fingers, in service to a king without a throne. Is this a knight who comes before us, or the answer to a childs riddle?
Loving the Davos chapters so far, unfortunately they are almost over
Loved Reek II too (the one with the Moat Catlin).
Loving the Davos chapters so far, unfortunately they are almost over
Loved Reek II too (the one with the Moat Catlin).
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
Good book but I liked Feast better. It's disappointing that after 6 years almost every plotline lacks any sort of climax or resolution. And Martin REALLY needs to stop the fake cliffhangers. He went overboard with these in ADWD and they hurt the story.
elrechazado
Banned
Davos is such a boss, I wish there were more of him in this book. I assume we'll have a lot more next book.
Last Hearth
Member
With ASOS people complained that Dany was way too smart for a 16 year old girl, that's she's a Mary Sue and everything just works out way too perfectly for her.
Now everything she touches turns to ash and people complain that she's too stupid and making too many mistakes..
GRRM can't win either way.
Now everything she touches turns to ash and people complain that she's too stupid and making too many mistakes..
GRRM can't win either way.
Her fascination with Daario was just ughh. Count me in as another anti-Dany person. Her chapters were just hard to read. I wish all the Essos characters and Meereen never existed.
edit: Like q_q says, we already know she'll get to Westeros (otherwise it was stupid to even have her in the book) and I personally think her interactions with the Westeros populous and how she wins them over would be much more interesting than the politics in Essos with random characters we don't really care about because we know they won't make a difference when she leaves Meereen.
edit: Like q_q says, we already know she'll get to Westeros (otherwise it was stupid to even have her in the book) and I personally think her interactions with the Westeros populous and how she wins them over would be much more interesting than the politics in Essos with random characters we don't really care about because we know they won't make a difference when she leaves Meereen.
elrechazao said:
I love Davos. The poor guy is always and the verge of death lol.
He was drowning at the end of ACOK. Stannis was almost cutting his head off in his last chapter in ASOS. And in AFFC we don't even SEE him once and was declared dead. Come on!
I don't think Stannis will make it at the end of the series, but I hope at least Davos will retire with his family or at least survive. The fact that the last chapter that I've read ends with Manderly ordering to cut his head it's not really pointing in this direction but there's still hope! One more chapter.
Last Hearth
Member
Well, I won't disagree that the chapters in the North were far more enjoyable and interesting to me than the chapters in Essos. (With the exception of Arya's chapters which were wonderful.)
gburgess10
Member
Last Hearth said:
First of all, since GRRM has already made Dany a prodigy, he should keep her a prodigy. Why the FUCK does he shift her from being capable to being totally useless? It strikes you as realistic that she just changed character completely in a year, and lost her intelligence in the bargain?
And since when did everything always work out for her? She has been trying to get an army to get to Westeros for two books now. She has failed. She lost her husband, her son, and gained nothing in Qarth.
Then we had one book where she kicked some ass and truly started looking like a Queen.
I fail to see how everything has been working out for her all the time, so your argument there really has no merit.
elrechazado
Banned
WE NEED A SHAVEPATE SPINOFF SERIESezrarh said:
Last Hearth
Member
First of all I don't think she lost her intelligence. She let her heart rule her head. Which she has done in the past, like with the whole Lamb Men incident.
She could have just left for Westeros, but she couldn't bear the idea of all the people she freed be enslaved again, and abandon all the people who help her free the slaves and let them be killed after she leaves because the slavers will have their revenge on them.
Should she have left? Probably. But I can see why she didn't.
She could have just left for Westeros, but she couldn't bear the idea of all the people she freed be enslaved again, and abandon all the people who help her free the slaves and let them be killed after she leaves because the slavers will have their revenge on them.
Should she have left? Probably. But I can see why she didn't.
bishopcruz
Member
Finished the book earlier today, I liked it overall, proabbly better than AFFC on first reading though it did have issues.
The biggest issue was pacing and I think a lot of that has to do with WAY too many POVs.
Honestly the entire story could pretty much have been told with
Jon
Dany
Tyrion
Davos
Barristan
Reek
Asha
Bran
The Dorne POVs were generally pointless, Quenten didn't need one. He could have shown up before the wedding and that would have been that. The stuff with the dragons could have been witnessed by Barristan. Boom, 3 unneceesary chapters gone. Hotah's chapter felt like it belonged in Feast, as did Jamie's and the Cersei chapters as well. Victarion's chapter was pointless, Melisandre's chapter could have been from John's perspective, the information we got in the Griff chapters could have basically been moved to either the Tyrion chapters or the Epilogue.
Don't get me wrong the Jamie chapter was nice, and the Cersei chapters were pretty good too, but they didn't fit the overall story of this book at all. Or its theme, which is about the difficulties of ruling justly, as opposed to how easy it seems to rule unjustly.
My other main issue has been with the whole Essos storyline. Man that went nowhere. 1000+ pages and we still can't get Tyrion and Dany together by the end of the book? Come the fuck on! I was generally ok with Tyrion's story until the Slavery thing. Horrible, horrible plot twist.
OTOH, I loved the Jon chapters for the most part, especially the early ones, though you think he'd have SOME people who agreed with him... I mean when he mentions that every person left to die up north is a potential wight, he has a point, and the realms of men speech was great. Dear lord his last chapter pissed me off.
Reek rocked. I was a fan of the character's chapters before, but these were disturbing, in a good way, and his whole state of being made you feel for the douchebag. The entire "I wish I had been one of them" exchange was touching. Asha's stuff was good too.
Arya's chapters were good too, though to be fair they could have been cut as well. I was glad to get resolution to her FM training, (even though I was really hoping she'd just get the fuck out of there.)
Still, much as I thought going in, TWIW is probably gonna be where the plot either finally kicks into gear, or this series meanders forever. Much of ADWD was held back by GRRMs inability to jump time forward 5 years (I still don't know why), the same thing that held back AFFC. Quite a lot and not a lot happen in equal measure in this book, we do get some story resolution of sorts to Jon, Bran, Arya, and kinda Davos, but pretty much everyone else is left hanging in a middle of the book style cliffhanger as opposed to an end of book style cliffhanger. And that is a damn shame.
Here's hoping TWIW doesn't take nearly as long.
The biggest issue was pacing and I think a lot of that has to do with WAY too many POVs.
Honestly the entire story could pretty much have been told with
Jon
Dany
Tyrion
Davos
Barristan
Reek
Asha
Bran
The Dorne POVs were generally pointless, Quenten didn't need one. He could have shown up before the wedding and that would have been that. The stuff with the dragons could have been witnessed by Barristan. Boom, 3 unneceesary chapters gone. Hotah's chapter felt like it belonged in Feast, as did Jamie's and the Cersei chapters as well. Victarion's chapter was pointless, Melisandre's chapter could have been from John's perspective, the information we got in the Griff chapters could have basically been moved to either the Tyrion chapters or the Epilogue.
Don't get me wrong the Jamie chapter was nice, and the Cersei chapters were pretty good too, but they didn't fit the overall story of this book at all. Or its theme, which is about the difficulties of ruling justly, as opposed to how easy it seems to rule unjustly.
My other main issue has been with the whole Essos storyline. Man that went nowhere. 1000+ pages and we still can't get Tyrion and Dany together by the end of the book? Come the fuck on! I was generally ok with Tyrion's story until the Slavery thing. Horrible, horrible plot twist.
OTOH, I loved the Jon chapters for the most part, especially the early ones, though you think he'd have SOME people who agreed with him... I mean when he mentions that every person left to die up north is a potential wight, he has a point, and the realms of men speech was great. Dear lord his last chapter pissed me off.
Reek rocked. I was a fan of the character's chapters before, but these were disturbing, in a good way, and his whole state of being made you feel for the douchebag. The entire "I wish I had been one of them" exchange was touching. Asha's stuff was good too.
Arya's chapters were good too, though to be fair they could have been cut as well. I was glad to get resolution to her FM training, (even though I was really hoping she'd just get the fuck out of there.)
Still, much as I thought going in, TWIW is probably gonna be where the plot either finally kicks into gear, or this series meanders forever. Much of ADWD was held back by GRRMs inability to jump time forward 5 years (I still don't know why), the same thing that held back AFFC. Quite a lot and not a lot happen in equal measure in this book, we do get some story resolution of sorts to Jon, Bran, Arya, and kinda Davos, but pretty much everyone else is left hanging in a middle of the book style cliffhanger as opposed to an end of book style cliffhanger. And that is a damn shame.
Here's hoping TWIW doesn't take nearly as long.
When I first finished the book, I thought it was easily the 2nd best in the series.
With a few days to think on it, I realize that my estimation of the book has fallen considerably.
As many have said, the Mereenese plot went nowhere. The dragons have been unleashed on the city, which is awesome, but Dany still hasn't met Tyrion, and now she's going to be spending at least half of her chapters in the next book dealing with a khalasar. Total waste. The book should have ended with her heading to Westeros, either in victory after smashing Yunkai, or fleeing after defeat.
Having the Watch kill Jon was an idiotic decision, IMO. I see four ways this can go: 1) Jon is dead, which would completely suck, or 2) Jon's spirit now inhabits Ghost, which would suck, or 3) Jon is reborn as Azor whatever, which takes the book deeper into Wheel of Time territory and farther from the grounded medieval political drama with light magic that made it so popular in the first place, or 4) Jon survives the attack. But even if he survives, he's obviously no longer commanding the Night's Watch, so this option sucks too. Four options, and all four of them suck. Way to go, George.
The Bran storyline has jumped the shark. It was cool when he was a cripple who could enter the consciousness of a wolf or Hodor, but now he's going to become a greenseer thousands of miles away from everything. I guess that would be cool if it had happened earlier in the series, but I can't see how he's going to get close enough to the action to influence things in a satisfying manner (having him remote control a dragon from thousands of miles away wouldn't be very satisfying, IMO).
Stannis getting defeated offscreen was ridiculous. We spend like a hundred tedious pages reading about them getting bogged down by snow, only to have the battle summed up in a letter by Ramsay Bolton.
I loved Arya's chapters, but the next book will need a heavy focus on her if she's going to have any hope of become important in the overall plot.
Overall, I'd say GRRM wrote a fantastic book that absolutely does not do what the fifth book in a seven book series should do. This would have been a perfect fourth book. It seems like the battle for a concise seven book series was decisively lost when GRRM decided to spend hundreds of pages writing about Brienne's ultimately fruitless search in the riverlands (and hundreds more about Tyrion's pointless adventure in Essos). While that decision was fantastic for exposing us to the war at a ground level, it made it impossible to have all the pieces set up for the endgame by the end of Book 5, which is what most people wanted, I think. Events that should have happened in Book 5 will have to happen in Book 6. So either we're going to get an extremely rushed endgame in Book 7, or the series is going to eight or nine books.
Basically ADWD is the book we deserved, but not the book we needed right now.
With a few days to think on it, I realize that my estimation of the book has fallen considerably.
As many have said, the Mereenese plot went nowhere. The dragons have been unleashed on the city, which is awesome, but Dany still hasn't met Tyrion, and now she's going to be spending at least half of her chapters in the next book dealing with a khalasar. Total waste. The book should have ended with her heading to Westeros, either in victory after smashing Yunkai, or fleeing after defeat.
Having the Watch kill Jon was an idiotic decision, IMO. I see four ways this can go: 1) Jon is dead, which would completely suck, or 2) Jon's spirit now inhabits Ghost, which would suck, or 3) Jon is reborn as Azor whatever, which takes the book deeper into Wheel of Time territory and farther from the grounded medieval political drama with light magic that made it so popular in the first place, or 4) Jon survives the attack. But even if he survives, he's obviously no longer commanding the Night's Watch, so this option sucks too. Four options, and all four of them suck. Way to go, George.
The Bran storyline has jumped the shark. It was cool when he was a cripple who could enter the consciousness of a wolf or Hodor, but now he's going to become a greenseer thousands of miles away from everything. I guess that would be cool if it had happened earlier in the series, but I can't see how he's going to get close enough to the action to influence things in a satisfying manner (having him remote control a dragon from thousands of miles away wouldn't be very satisfying, IMO).
Stannis getting defeated offscreen was ridiculous. We spend like a hundred tedious pages reading about them getting bogged down by snow, only to have the battle summed up in a letter by Ramsay Bolton.
I loved Arya's chapters, but the next book will need a heavy focus on her if she's going to have any hope of become important in the overall plot.
Overall, I'd say GRRM wrote a fantastic book that absolutely does not do what the fifth book in a seven book series should do. This would have been a perfect fourth book. It seems like the battle for a concise seven book series was decisively lost when GRRM decided to spend hundreds of pages writing about Brienne's ultimately fruitless search in the riverlands (and hundreds more about Tyrion's pointless adventure in Essos). While that decision was fantastic for exposing us to the war at a ground level, it made it impossible to have all the pieces set up for the endgame by the end of Book 5, which is what most people wanted, I think. Events that should have happened in Book 5 will have to happen in Book 6. So either we're going to get an extremely rushed endgame in Book 7, or the series is going to eight or nine books.
Basically ADWD is the book we deserved, but not the book we needed right now.
HarryHengst
Member
I really hope the next book shows more of Oldtown and the maesters in the citadel through Sam. I'm pretty sure the idea is to go towards some sort of magic/science clash, with the maesters trying to rid the world of magic, but the dragons/others bringing it back in the world again. Also Jaqen H'ghar/Pate is in Oldtown doing god knows what.
Basileus777
Member
This series is going to need 8 or 9 books to be completed. The idea of 7 books being enough is laughable. I've actually accepted that we won't likely see the end of ASOIAF.
It's quite obvious Jon's not really going to be dead. GRRM left too many clues. Plus his stabbing scene fulfills the prophecy of Azor Ahai.Puddles said:
It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.
--Melisandre, SoS, pg. 289
The star is the sigil of the knight being killed by the giant, his blood running on his clothes. The darkness is the coming winter. The smoke is coming from Jon's wound when he pulls out the dagger, and the salt is represented in the tears of Bowen as he stabs Jon. I found all this on the Westeros forums, not on my own, but it still seems pretty clear. Plus with all the emphasis on wargs living on in their animals, I think there's no way Jon is actually dead. How he comes back is another question though. Also it's completely within the realm of possibility that he survives his wounds, people have survived worse in this series.
I actually enjoyed his chapters a lot. I love anything to do with the greenseers, the weirwoods and the prophecies, and seeing a legend of Westerosi lore up close was cool too. I have a feeling Bran will do more than just watch everything from the North like Brynden has been doing.
You really think this happened? Come on dude. Ramsay is just a butthurt little bitch who needed to rage about getting embarrassed by Mance and his girls. This dude didn't do shit. Plus there's no way GRRM would do all of that stuff off screen. It's just a horrible attempt at faking out the audience, same as Davos' "death" in AFFC.
Basileus777
Member
golem said:
I don't see any room for a timeskip now. If he wants to move time along, he's going to have to do it a month or two at a time.
Besides that issue, there's a million plot threads dangling around that can't be brushed aside for any significant length of time. ASOS left most characters at a point where a timeskip seemed plausible, after ADWD it's nothing like that at all.Nesotenso said:
Last Hearth
Member
Honestly, if you can't enjoy the Bran chapters in this book you might be reading the wrong series.
Those chapters had everything, adventure, suspense, fear, desperation, action, mystery, and finally revelation.
Those chapters were magical for me.
Those chapters had everything, adventure, suspense, fear, desperation, action, mystery, and finally revelation.
Those chapters were magical for me.
Last Hearth
Member
So, Wyman Manderly brought meat pies for everyone! And called for the Rat Cook Song! How dastardly is that?
Basileus777
Member
Puddles said:
And eating multiple portions himself!
Basileus777
Member
Pkaz01 said:
I thought Izembaro was the person she was being sent to, but I suppose it could be a place. The most interesting thing is that Faceless Men apparently don't get sent to kill people they know, so that leaves out a lot of theories about Arya's fate.
The interesting part about that was that she is just now starting her apprenticeship, so does that mean she will be a shadow to a higher up FM or continue her training under another teacher. Either way I don't see her going far enough in her training to lose her ears or whatever they promised to do.Basileus777 said:
But even if she isn't the one who is sent out to kill someone she knows I don't think she will just sit around and accept a FM killing someone she cares for even if it is Sansa like many people theorize about.
I had to meet my professor regarding my dissertation, so I could only resume reading today and have now finished it.
So, here is my overall opinion. It might change upon further reflection (in fact it already has, just from reading the last page in this thread), but not much.
The book really shows that its the other half of Feast. The plot advances very slowly, which at times makes the book hard to read. While reading, you at least have the hope that all plotlines will eventually lead somewhere, but the closer you get to the end of the book, the more you realize that many of them will remain unresolved. All in all, it only moves the storyline marginally further than Feast.
The biggest offender in this regard is Tyrions plot. His quest to get to Dany should have lead to a more satisfactory conclusion. At least he should have reached Mereen (and not just the fighting pits). Even if Dany is not there, it would have improved his storyline. It was a good story, albeit slow, when he travelled with Griff and then Ser Jorah. The slavery part was absolutely awful.
Something similar can be said for Davos. I like his storyline and his mission to find Rickon. It feels cheap, however, that he embarks on it halfway through the book and then never reappears.
Now on to the good parts. Brans chapters are the best in the book. Unfortunately, there are too few of them. His storyline is intriguing and Coldhands fight before they reach the Children was great. I was hoping wed learn who he is. I still think him being Benjen would be too easy an answer.
Apart from Bran, I liked Ayras, Ashas and, to my great surprise, Reeks chapters. That turncloak actually made me pity him. Now I want him restored to his full power, before a Stark kills him brutally. Furthermore, I loved Barristans POV. The whole Dany storyline was dull and moving at a snails pace. Once Barristan took over, it was much more compelling. In fact, I wish the rest of the Mereen events would have been told through his eyes, even with Dany present.
Last but not least, Jons chapters. I really enjoyed them up until the very end. His demise at the hands of his brothers made me want to rip the book apart. I am so invested in his character and spent so much time with him that I felt betrayed he would die. Just before I wrote this, however, I read through the last page of this thread and am now hopeful that he will live on and somehow turn out to be the Azor Ahai. Melisandre did say she always saw his face when she wanted to see her Azor Ahai, so I will withhold judgment. Should he, however, only live on in Ghost, then I might be done with the series (said he before buying the next book in a couple years).
There are only a limited number of character deaths that I can accept instead of character development. Doing it with Eddard was great. Robb was brutal but genius. I cannot stomach another Stark death, though. Not even Sansa, whom I like much more since Feast. In fact, I hope she will learn Littlefingers trade.
In the end, I will henceforth treat Dance as Book 4 part 2. So I still expect three more before the series will be finished (if it ever is).
So, here is my overall opinion. It might change upon further reflection (in fact it already has, just from reading the last page in this thread), but not much.
The book really shows that its the other half of Feast. The plot advances very slowly, which at times makes the book hard to read. While reading, you at least have the hope that all plotlines will eventually lead somewhere, but the closer you get to the end of the book, the more you realize that many of them will remain unresolved. All in all, it only moves the storyline marginally further than Feast.
The biggest offender in this regard is Tyrions plot. His quest to get to Dany should have lead to a more satisfactory conclusion. At least he should have reached Mereen (and not just the fighting pits). Even if Dany is not there, it would have improved his storyline. It was a good story, albeit slow, when he travelled with Griff and then Ser Jorah. The slavery part was absolutely awful.
Something similar can be said for Davos. I like his storyline and his mission to find Rickon. It feels cheap, however, that he embarks on it halfway through the book and then never reappears.
Now on to the good parts. Brans chapters are the best in the book. Unfortunately, there are too few of them. His storyline is intriguing and Coldhands fight before they reach the Children was great. I was hoping wed learn who he is. I still think him being Benjen would be too easy an answer.
Apart from Bran, I liked Ayras, Ashas and, to my great surprise, Reeks chapters. That turncloak actually made me pity him. Now I want him restored to his full power, before a Stark kills him brutally. Furthermore, I loved Barristans POV. The whole Dany storyline was dull and moving at a snails pace. Once Barristan took over, it was much more compelling. In fact, I wish the rest of the Mereen events would have been told through his eyes, even with Dany present.
Last but not least, Jons chapters. I really enjoyed them up until the very end. His demise at the hands of his brothers made me want to rip the book apart. I am so invested in his character and spent so much time with him that I felt betrayed he would die. Just before I wrote this, however, I read through the last page of this thread and am now hopeful that he will live on and somehow turn out to be the Azor Ahai. Melisandre did say she always saw his face when she wanted to see her Azor Ahai, so I will withhold judgment. Should he, however, only live on in Ghost, then I might be done with the series (said he before buying the next book in a couple years).
There are only a limited number of character deaths that I can accept instead of character development. Doing it with Eddard was great. Robb was brutal but genius. I cannot stomach another Stark death, though. Not even Sansa, whom I like much more since Feast. In fact, I hope she will learn Littlefingers trade.
In the end, I will henceforth treat Dance as Book 4 part 2. So I still expect three more before the series will be finished (if it ever is).
Finished reading and as I said earlier, this is clearly the second half of Feast of Crows. Sole purpose is to put everything in motion, but resolve nothing. Nice way to say, its not the book we waited 11 years for. This was nothing more than a massive blue ball.
And the worst thing of it is that he didn't resolve the knot. He just fucking delayed it. Only one person meant her... the most useless person. And one other came to the conclusion of going West first, who wasn't even in the book till now. The big ones from SOS/FOC, still linger about.
And the worst thing of it is that he didn't resolve the knot. He just fucking delayed it. Only one person meant her... the most useless person. And one other came to the conclusion of going West first, who wasn't even in the book till now. The big ones from SOS/FOC, still linger about.
Few hours later, maybe a bit controversial, but I'm going to say this is the worst book yet. The first that also feels like its a bad novel too. Even with knowing this was just going be the second half of Feast and not trying to get my hopes up. I still came out extremely disappointed with how little it advance the story lines.
Quick thoughts.
On the book itself, starting with the beginning, one giant recap of what happened in Feast. Tyrion, Dany, and Jon.
Dany was definitely the birth of the Dragon... Sansa 2.0. Everything from wanting Darrio to idiotic decisions on how to try and save the city. All clearly to delay her return West.
Tyrion were okay. I even didn't mind the slave part. Everything wrong with his chapters involved Penny.
Jon, I got bored of his chapters by the end and the fake death at the end put a sour note on it. I understand the position he is in, and he can't move, so him dying frees it up. But it felt weak.
And the final one is all the fill in chapters from Crows. Chapters clearly gutted, merge, and so forth. Just to be thrown in there. Basically small token meals.
What was good on the other hand.
Reek, Asha, and Davos.
Quick thoughts.
On the book itself, starting with the beginning, one giant recap of what happened in Feast. Tyrion, Dany, and Jon.
Dany was definitely the birth of the Dragon... Sansa 2.0. Everything from wanting Darrio to idiotic decisions on how to try and save the city. All clearly to delay her return West.
Tyrion were okay. I even didn't mind the slave part. Everything wrong with his chapters involved Penny.
Jon, I got bored of his chapters by the end and the fake death at the end put a sour note on it. I understand the position he is in, and he can't move, so him dying frees it up. But it felt weak.
And the final one is all the fill in chapters from Crows. Chapters clearly gutted, merge, and so forth. Just to be thrown in there. Basically small token meals.
What was good on the other hand.
Reek, Asha, and Davos.
elrechazado
Banned
She's not having a trial by combat, she's having a trial of the faith. Cersei is having trial by combat.Puddles said:I really wish Margaery's trial by combat had been included in Book 5. I wanted to see Zombie Gregor in action. It was built up so much in Book 4.
elrechazado
Banned
So I have a my new valonqar cersei death prophecy.
I think the valonqar is Sandor Clegane the hound. Here's why - Cersei will have a trial by combat with gregorstein as her champion. Who will be the accuser's champion? We don't know at this point, but I think it will be someone from the church. GRRM can't be done with sandor, and I think he'll be made into a holy warrior type at the convent where he was last seen (as the large gravedigger). As the holy warrior, sandor smites down evil zombie gregor, snatching sure victory from cersei's hands, and therefore bringing her death by losing the trial of combat, and hence the valonqar or little brother has killed her.
This could be old as hell, but for once I came up with one of these crazy theories on my own without reading it elsewhere Thoughts?
I think the valonqar is Sandor Clegane the hound. Here's why - Cersei will have a trial by combat with gregorstein as her champion. Who will be the accuser's champion? We don't know at this point, but I think it will be someone from the church. GRRM can't be done with sandor, and I think he'll be made into a holy warrior type at the convent where he was last seen (as the large gravedigger). As the holy warrior, sandor smites down evil zombie gregor, snatching sure victory from cersei's hands, and therefore bringing her death by losing the trial of combat, and hence the valonqar or little brother has killed her.
This could be old as hell, but for once I came up with one of these crazy theories on my own without reading it elsewhere
Thoughts?Last Hearth
Member
Nesotenso said:
Yes, but Sam was sworn to secrecy by Coldhands so no one would go looking for Bran.
Basileus777
Member
Apparently GRRM all but confirmed at some signing that Connington is gay.
I guess you could read that he had some unrequited love for Rhaegar from the text, but I didn't pick up on that.
I guess you could read that he had some unrequited love for Rhaegar from the text, but I didn't pick up on that.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll