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Ashodin · May 1, 2012

ArenaNet, you so awesome. They feedback this shit so fast and are like "yes sir, we know, we're on it".

And it's not using WASD to move makes you a noob, it's TURNING with the keyboard.

IE, using W and A to manually turn your player, whereas mouselook is MUCH faster and more orientating.

cartoon_soldier · May 1, 2012

Maxrpg said:
ArenaNet, you so awesome. They feedback this shit so fast and are like "yes sir, we know, we're on it".

And it's not using WASD to move makes you a noob, it's TURNING with the keyboard.

IE, using W and A to manually turn your player, whereas mouselook is MUCH faster and more orientating.

But a PvE portion of a MMO shouldn't be balanced around whether you keyboard turn or not.

Achtius · May 1, 2012

Ferrio said:
To me the trouble with melee wasn't it's difficulty. The trouble was you can't see shit in big fights, so even if you're a great player the visual cues to evade etc are lost in the storm.

Also why are some AOE markers white and some red? I'd think red was enemy, but that's not always the case since I've taken damage from stuff in white circles when I thought it was a friendly combo zone.

Yeah, that happened to me too. and the strangest thing is that I was using Whirling Defense, and I still got hurt from the AoE

Ashodin · May 1, 2012

cartoon_soldier said:
But a PvE portion of a MMO shouldn't be balanced around whether you keyboard turn or not.

I'd say since the game is based on skills, it most definitely should, but should also teach players this tactic. We need some sort of "MMO bootcamp" or something, lol.

Also why are some AOE markers white and some red? I'd think red was enemy, but that's not always the case since I've taken damage from stuff in white circles when I thought it was a friendly combo zone.

This needs fixed. It's terribly hard to identify what was what. Colors AND maybe friendly ones are squiggly, and enemy ones are spiky?

Grayman · May 1, 2012

I never looked did mouse look have a toggle option? I used hold right click in some of my pve but not constantly. Tank controls with locked camera to movement if my favourite control that is not first person.

inky · May 1, 2012

Ferrio said:
Also why are some AOE markers white and some red? I'd think red was enemy, but that's not always the case since I've taken damage from stuff in white circles when I thought it was a friendly combo zone.

The stupid arrow carts from WvW had white AoE markers and do insane amounts of damage. I died a lot of times to those things thinking they were friendly arrow attacks.

Jira · May 1, 2012

It is likely that your will start fresh with the next Beta Weekend Event, including the friends list. That isnt certain, though. The Dev Team will decide about this later.

.

Ashodin · May 1, 2012

Grayman said:
I never looked did mouse look have a toggle option? I used hold right click in some of my pve but not constantly. Tank controls with locked camera to movement if my favourite control that is not first person.

That's what the "majority" of hardcore players of MMOs use is the hold right click in mouse look.

It's much more reactive and response times are higher than tank control turning. Imagine how Resident Evil games would be if you could snap turn with the camera instead of turning ever-so-slowly with the stick.

It's the same way how combat in Mass Effect on the PC is satisfying - the camera is locked to the reticle, and you move at pixel-perfect movement, ie, FPS style gameplay.

It is likely that your will start fresh with the next Beta Weekend Event, including the friends list. That isn’t certain, though. The Dev Team will decide about this later.

BOOOO!!!!!! I don't want to have to level again - if we can keep characters, those of us who don't have the whole weekend off can do Ascalonian Catacombs or something.

cartoon_soldier · May 1, 2012

Maxrpg said:
I'd say since the game is based on skills, it most definitely should, but should also teach players this tactic. We need some sort of "MMO bootcamp" or something, lol.

That should never be the case.

Keyboard turning or not is something that should be what good players do to get that extra edge for competitive PvP play and not for just normal PvE gameplay.

Ferrio · May 1, 2012

inky said:
The stupid arrow carts from WvW had white AoE markers and do insane amounts of damage. I died a lot of times to those things thinking they were friendly arrow attacks.

That's one in particular i was thinking of. That cart needs a fucking nerft... this coming from someone who manned one for an hour straight.

Also from that quote.. he doesn't mention targetting... just using your camera and spamming skills?

markot · May 1, 2012

I use wasd. But I always use a and d as strafe instead of turn, I use my mouse to turn.

I didnt find arrows to hard, as long as you kept on the move and dodged.... but I dunno, didnt wvwvw as much as I wanted to >.<

Ashodin · May 1, 2012

cartoon_soldier said:
That should never be the case.

Keyboard turning or not is something that should be what good players do to get that extra edge for competitive PvP play and not for just normal PvE gameplay.

ArenaNet are all about equality in play though, and I stand by it. If I could teach the whole world how to play the way I do, I would. I want the challenge I pose to them posed to me. Which is why PVP in most games I play was so satisfying when it was on equal grounds and not based on gear.

RepairmanJack · May 1, 2012

cartoon_soldier said:
I will wait for next BWE, but seems like he is somewhat saying l2p

And if the objective as a meele player is to run in, hit and run out...might has well play range and just keep running out if the mob moves towards you.

Ferrio said:
To me the trouble with melee wasn't it's difficulty. The trouble was you can't see shit in big fights, so even if you're a great player the visual cues to evade etc are lost in the storm.

Also why are some AOE markers white and some red? I'd think red was enemy, but that's not always the case since I've taken damage from stuff in white circles when I thought it was a friendly combo zone.

Yeah, I didn't really find his comment reassuring. His comments seem to fall heavily on combat when solo or in a small group when the complaints largely come from large scale fights. I dont think I've seen too many complaints about solo play. Hopefully there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than teaching people to play. Thats not the problem on about 80% of the issues.

We will have to wait and see. I will probanly play more of a melee class next time. Though i played duel daggers ele which is very similar. Though they seemed the weekest damage wise of all ele weapons which I was dissapointed with.

Ashodin · May 1, 2012

RepairmanJack said:
Yeah, I didn't really find his comment reassuring. His comments seem to fall heavily on combat when solo or in a small group when the complaints largely come from large scale fights. I dont think I've seen too many complaints about solo play. Hopefully there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than teaching people to play. Thats not the problem on about 80% of the issues.

We will have to wait and see. I will probanly play more of a melee class next time. Though i played duel daggers ele which is very similar. Though they seemed the weekest damage wise of all ele weapons which I was dissapointed with.

This is what they said when they were talking about monster and event changes though, so your worries will be heeded.

Jira · May 1, 2012

Jon Peters

Since I posted this to rangers as well. There is still a bug with pet AI that sometimes causes them to stop thinking and do nothing. This bug WILL be fixed before ship. We thought we had it between the last beta weekend and this one, and it certainly crops up less often, but there are still significant cases being reported of this happening. Hang in tight minion masters!!!

RepairmanJack · May 1, 2012

Maxrpg said:
This is what they said when they were talking about monster and event changes though, so your worries will be heeded.

Yeah, I wasn't saying it would'nt get fixed at all. Just seemed he was focusing too much on the people playing dumb aspect.

I think another problem with melee is the "effect area" of enemies skills. As I said I didn't play too much melee but with my daggers ele I relied a lot on kiting and sometimes I would be way out of range of mobs and their hits would still effect me. It didn't happen often but when it did it was frustrating as hell. Doing everything you can with dodging and kiting to still be hit by a skill just sucks. :lol since it didn't happen too often I reported it every chance in case it was a bug, but I hope that gets pollished up. Anyone else have this issue?

JustProgress · May 1, 2012

It is likely that your will start fresh with the next Beta Weekend Event, including the friends list. That isn’t certain, though. The Dev Team will decide about this later.

Uh-oh if they change their minds, I deleted all my clothes and weapons last night.

ShaneB · May 1, 2012

I miss it so much!!

*group hug*

SDBurton · May 1, 2012

Would be swell if I could just get back on my guardian at the start of the next event and hit up the catacombs..

Teknoman · May 1, 2012

Piecake said:
Based on all of these comments, im glad they limited the dungeon raids to only 5 people. Personally, i was never a fan of huge 10-25 man raids anyways, always wished they were smaller so that that it was easier to form a group. And i never really got the argument how having a gigantic raid improved the combat or fun besides making it feel more 'epic' to some people

Same here. A battle feels "epic" when you've got alot to do in the fight, and the enemy is well designed, not just throw a large number of party members in and go at it. Around 6 is a good number.

SDBurton said:
Would be swell if I could just get back on my guardian at the start of the next event and hit up the catacombs..

I'd really like that, unless they make some really sweeping changes based on this test's feedback.

NeededSleep · May 1, 2012

Squall ASF said:
Thanks! It shipped today and in half an hour I'll be able to check the tracking number. It's coming from Cali and I'm in AZ so shouldn't take long As for performance issues, you guys don't even know what that means! You should have seen what happened when I tried to play it on my current system...

Awesome! Another AZ person. Will make fun times finally playing with people in the same timezone. The girlfriend and my best friend
will be playing aswell, hoping to bring them into the GAF guild when the game launches.

Ashodin · May 1, 2012

RepairmanJack said:
Yeah, I wasn't saying it would'nt get fixed at all. Just seemed he was focusing too much on the people playing dumb aspect.

I think another problem with melee is the "effect area" of enemies skills. As I said I didn't play too much melee but with my daggers ele I relied a lot on kiting and sometimes I would be way out of range of mobs and their hits would still effect me. It didn't happen often but when it did it was frustrating as hell. Doing everything you can with dodging and kiting to still be hit by a skill just sucks. :lol since it didn't happen too often I reported it every chance in case it was a bug, but I hope that gets pollished up. Anyone else have this issue?

I also had this issue. And I think it's not even more like a bug, it's probably going to be very hard to stomp out: it's lag between you and the server. The game thinks you are still close, you are moving away to dodge, and thus you still receive the hit even though you are communicating to the server that you've moved away. Subsequent hits may not hit you now that you are away, but that's basically it.

I can confirm your problem I have had because I would be at 920 health, then move, still get hit for like 100, but other follow up attacks would not hit because I was already away.

Still a better option then taking multiple hits. Combat is fluid and fast enough that you can effectively roll around the enemy and slice and dice them.

Circle strafing is god here.

cartoon_soldier · May 1, 2012

animlboogy said:
Who are you to say what an MMO can and can't do with regards to combat?

It's not a genre. There is an amusement park MMORPG thing that's been going on, but let's not keep limiting ourselves to expectations based on other games.

In Guild Wars 2, positioning matters, dodging matters, and you're going to need to react quickly.

I am who you are, you just feel the opposite way.

bearythebear · May 1, 2012

So what did you guys think of Engineer? The rifle seems like a weird weapon. 3/5 weapons are designed to be around being in melee range. Other than that, flamethrower is pretty awesome.

The_Reckoning · May 1, 2012

Wow, what a fun weekend. Played entirely too much, but I really wanted to try and get a feel for the dungeon this BWE. I didn't waste time on story or dialog this time, saving that for retail to remain fresh. I played as a Charr Engineer(dual pistols/flamethrower), not thinking it would be my main, but I had so much fun, and survivability, that I'm quite certain that's my class for good.

Found a good summary/beta impressions blog? here. Sums up my weekend for the most part.

http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/30-things-about-guild-wars-2s-beta-weekend/

I enjoyed this point, as I believe there is actual science to it, at least when used in casinos. The noise was satisfying.

12. The XP gained sounds like a slot machine. When you gain a chunk of XP through exploring, heart quests, or events, theres this neat thing where it flows down to your XP bar and fills it up with a tinkly sound. Makes you feel like youve won something.

Jira · May 1, 2012

Yeah, them moving the achievement chests into a UI element as well as the UI stuff for finding waypoints/POIs is seriously amazing. It just felt good every time it happened.

j_hiro · May 1, 2012

Had so much fun this weekend and looking forward to the next. Went in playing Mesmer because I wanted to main a Thief and didn't want to play it until release but it was so awesome that I might stick with it. Highlight for me was definitely WvW despite our server doing pretty poorly overall.

Sephirus · May 1, 2012

I have to say GW2 has the best UI hands down of any MMO I've played . It's able to convey everything it needs to without taking up so much damn space on the screen, even though that partially thanks to the 10 skill limit. I had four full bars of skills in ToR, I don't miss that at all.

Edit: Just some general thoughts on the weekend. I was very conflicted between Mesmer, Thief, and Guardian as my main going into the weekend. Played a ton of Guardian up to level 23, mainly rolling with Mace/Shield and Greatsword, really enjoyed that combo. Shield skills need a bit of work and so do the Courage and Resolve Virtues, but besides that I had a great time completing DEs, going through my personal story, and supporting my teammates in WvW, even if we're lacking a proper ranged weapon.

Mesmer I was super excited to try out, but sadly I never quite got a handle on, which may have been my own fault but I just wasn't feeling that class, I may give it another go next BWE. I love the idea of the Mesmer I just think it could use a tiny bit of work, especially with Illusions/Clones/Phantasms. Thief on the other hand I enjoyed immensely, it seemed to be the most complete in mechanics and skills of the three classes. Played a bit more sPvP with that class than I had planned.

All and all I had a fantastic weekend, and I'm already craving another BWE.

Ferny · May 1, 2012

Sephirus said:
I have to say GW2 has the best UI hands down of any MMO I've played . It's able to convey everything it needs to without taking up so much damn space on the screen, even though that partially thanks to the 10 skill limit. I had four full bars of skills in ToR, I don't miss that at all.

I have to agree. It has the best UI I have ever used on an MMO. It's simple, it gets right to the point, and it includes everything you need right there.

VanillaCakeIsBurning · May 1, 2012

Retro said:
I dunno if we're thinking of the same thing, but do you mean the Sylvari? If so, they're called The Nightmare Court; http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare#The_Nightmare_Court

In the community thread, a while before the BWE started, someone posted a screenshot of someone fighting an elf looking person with black wings in some snow area zone with a polar bear (Kodan I guess). I have no idea what page it was on though.

Nothing to worry about though, I'm sure information regarding it will crop up eventually.

Vinci · May 1, 2012

bearythebear said:
So what did you guys think of Engineer? The rifle seems like a weird weapon. 3/5 weapons are designed to be around being in melee range. Other than that, flamethrower is pretty awesome.

I wasn't impressed by their power, but engineers are certainly fun to play. Overcharged Shot is worth the price of admission alone.

Retro · May 1, 2012

Ferny said:
I have to agree. It has the best UI I have ever used on an MMO. It's simple, it gets right to the point, and it includes everything you need right there.

My only complaint with the UI is that the friends / guild UI seems overcomplicated. Being able to right-click and invite people to stuff or add to friends would make things easier.

Hawkian · May 1, 2012

*Tries to log in*

:/

Ferny · May 1, 2012

Retro said:
My only complaint with the UI is that the friends / guild UI seems overcomplicated. Being able to right-click and invite people to stuff or add to friends would make things easier.

I'm almost sure you can. I know for sure you can add to party and contacts from chat. I hear you on guild though. Man that would be a godsend!

Vinci · May 1, 2012

Hawkian said:
*Tries to log in*

:/

I did that earlier as well...

Jira · May 1, 2012

Jon Peters -

This is a general rule of our skill system. AoE attacks hit up to 5 targets. AoE buffs or heals can heal up to 5. We cap it at 5 because its the party size and lets us reign in the balance on AoE without impacting most normal situations. WvW is the one place where this shows up, but we believe the alternative is worse. Hope this helps

Since I posted this to rangers as well. There is still a bug with pet AI that sometimes causes them to stop thinking and do nothing. This bug WILL be fixed before ship. We thought we had it between the last beta weekend and this one, and it certainly crops up less often, but there are still significant cases being reported of this happening. Hang in tight minion masters!!!

demolitio · May 1, 2012

Man, trying to find a game to fill the void right now is hard. I play enough shooters and this was my one really unique game so trying to replace that until the next beta weekend is hard. When you have all the time in the world and can't find anything to hold your attention, the day goes by sloooooooowwwwww...lol

Sephirus · May 1, 2012

Hawkian said:
*Tries to log in*

:/

I've done that multiple times today....

I'm so lost.

Hawkian · May 1, 2012

My post count in this thread is probably the most embarrassing thing about me.

Retro · May 1, 2012

Heh, my plan for GW2 was to not spend the entire weekend playing. I didn't want to stay up all night, sleep for a few hours and jump right back in. For one, it would have driven my wife up the wall. For another, I figured if I played just a little bit, I wouldn't get hooked quite so much and end up having withdraws.

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone trying just a little bit of crack and being okay.

Hawkian said:
My post count in this thread is probably the most embarrassing thing about me.

You should know that the other Officers and I were discussing this in Mumble as it was happening; we were really surprised when you managed to pull ahead of Jira in the space of about two days. However, given that you've been helping people out and really stepped up to manage the second GAF Guild after we unexpectedly filled up, we all kind of agreed that you'd make a fine officer for the guild. I dunno if you were formally asked or anything, but there it is.

Absinthe · May 1, 2012

So I posted my first topic on the GW2 forums about having the ability to place the map, fullscreen, on a second monitor at all times.

What does GW GAF think of this?

To me, with all the dynamic/group events happening in the world at all times, the option of having the map on my second monitor as I play just sounds amazing.

markot · May 1, 2012

Good idea, but no one seems to bother with multimoniter stuff.

Orayn · May 1, 2012

I'm not running a multi-monitor setup right now, but I'd love to have that option. It would save me a lot of flipping back and forth on my never-ending quest to complete each zone.

Retro · May 1, 2012

akmcbroom said:
So I posted my first topic on the GW2 forums about having the ability to place the map, fullscreen, on a second monitor at all times.

What does GW GAF think of this?

As someone who is so used to having a second monitor that briefly coping with only one while setting up a new PC was agony, I whole-heatedly agree with this concept. Especially for WvW or watching where your guildies are.

I wouldn't mind being able to toss chat windows over there either.

Absinthe · May 1, 2012

Retro said:
As someone who is so used to having a second monitor that briefly coping with only one while setting up a new PC was agony, I whole-heatedly agree with this concept. Especially for WvW or watching where your guildies are.

I wouldn't mind being able to toss chat windows over there either.

I think this would also make GW2 the first MMO with multi-monitor support.

Someone else on GW2 forums suggested the ability to open the map, scale it, and adjust opacity which could be a great alternative.

Ashodin · May 1, 2012

Jira said:
Yeah, them moving the achievement chests into a UI element as well as the UI stuff for finding waypoints/POIs is seriously amazing. It just felt good every time it happened.

OH GOD THAT SOUNDDDDDD

Quadrophenic · May 1, 2012

Regarding the problem with melee's trying to see what a boss is doing amonst the flurry of explosions and lightning and ice bursts and blue flames and etc, I wonder if it would be possible to create some kind outline of the targetted mob (or maybe all mobs) that is superimposed on top of all spell effects? Maybe this is only visible when you get within a certain distance of the mob, saw just slightly beyond the normal melee attack range. Or maybe it gets more prominant the closer you get, so casters in the back see a faint outline which might be useful if any mobs have some kind of charge attack that lunges them towards the casters oneshotting anyone not paying attention.

This way you will still be able to see his movements so you can properly dodge/gtfo as well as being able to see the spells your allies are laying down so you know when to initiate combo enders and the like. This also wouldn't nerf the combat difficulty (as other people seem to suggest on the official boards) and should hopefully make meleeing in huge groups as fun as it is when you are soloing/small groups (cause i dunno about everyone else, but I loved taking on multiple mobs with my warrior on my own and dodging/countering/blocking etc which is something you need clear visuals of the target to do properly).

I have no idea how graphical intensive/feasible/time intensive/stupid this idea would be, I just thought about it while thinking of ways to solve the problem with melee not being able to see wtf is happening during big events.

Sephirus · May 1, 2012

Maxrpg said:
OH GOD THAT SOUNDDDDDD

It took me a good couple of levels to actually find the source of that sound, it was driving me mad lol.

Edit: Drawing an outline of the mob would certainly help, during the closing event there were times where I would lose track of where the Moa's were with all of the players bunched up on it as well as all of the spell effects. Granted this could be partially because of my horrid framerate during said event lol.

Retro · May 1, 2012

Quadrophenic said:
Regarding the problem with melee's trying to see what a boss is doing amonst the flurry of explosions and lightning and ice bursts and blue flames and etc, I wonder if it would be possible to create some kind outline of the targetted mob (or maybe all mobs) that is superimposed on top of all spell effects?

I could see something like that working nicely, yes. Maybe just increasing the transparency of spell effects as you get closer to an enemy would work, but I think stylistically I would like to see something like... heavy black brushstrokes. So that the silhouette of the enemy really stands out.

krameriffic · May 1, 2012

Maxrpg said:
ArenaNet, you so awesome. They feedback this shit so fast and are like "yes sir, we know, we're on it".

And it's not using WASD to move makes you a noob, it's TURNING with the keyboard.

IE, using W and A to manually turn your player, whereas mouselook is MUCH faster and more orientating.

I found something extremely tedious about this game when I tried to play the PvE like I would play PvP. MMO combat is still MMO combat. It's heavily predicated on an autoattack and short cooldowns, it still feels laggy and unresponsive and like your grip on whats happening is very loose overall. Having to put forth more effort to be effective in PvE combat ended up irritating me rather than engaging me. And I'm not talking about keyboard turning and S-keying.

The problem is quantity. It's fun the first few times to realize that you can dodge an ettin's huge hammer attack that does 1/3 of your health. But after the 25th time, you just want to stand there and eat it. It's the same thing that bugs me about raiding in traditional MMOs. I enjoy learning a hard fight, applying the strategy correctly and overcoming the challenge. But doing it over and over again week after week is just irritating. I just want to stand in the fire and collect my fucking loot. I've already proven myself, why the fuck am I still playing this game?

PvP combat is more engaging because it's not formulaic. It just feels different to engage another player and to have to play at the height of your abilities to beat them even after the 1000th time doing it. That's why people still play Counterstrike: the repetitiveness of it is still engaging against a human enemy. Difficult repetition against an AI is just fucking annoying. I like my PvE MMO combat to be slow and boring so I can watch videos on my other monitor, zone out listening to music or talk to people on Teamspeak.

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