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LaunchpadMcQ · Mar 20, 2017

Memento said:
You just defined Horizon Zero Dawn. Except for deep RPG mechanics, which Horizon is more streamlined in favor of a fast paced combat.

There's more to deep RPG mechanics than just combat, and it's one of the defining characteristics of Mass Effect games (and BioWare games as a whole) which Horizon does not have. Developing your character in meaningful ways is one thing, but I feel like the choices which impact the world are another huge component. I'm only 10 or so hours into Horizon, but I've not seen evidence of that. Actually, the funny thing is I see the same kind of practice I experienced in the ME:A trial, which was variations on the same responses that don't really lead anywhere.

That doesn't really mean much to me, though, since it's not at the forefront of Horizon's identity like it is in other games.

Lime · Mar 20, 2017

uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

MadYarpen · Mar 20, 2017

Maledict said:
What made Me1 work for me was the overarching narrative - it was the closest I've ever come in a game to feeling like I'm in a giant big budget sci-fi experience. The aliens, the reapers, the Geth, the Citedal - that's what made it work for me. that's what got me past the incredibly badly designed MAKO sequences, the cardboard cut-out enemies and the monotonous as hell collection quests and base design. Shepherd's conversation with Sovereign was *amazin* - and the Virgil's revelation was a pay-off worth waiting for. The final sequence, running up the side of the citedal and then ordering the human fleet into battle to protect the Destiny's ascension is one of my favourite endings of all times in a game,

Yes, I felt the same. And the last sequence, damn. I hoped me:a would do something similar. But reading these reviews it looks more like a C class sci-fi movie, with bad acting. Shame.

jtb · Mar 20, 2017

Can't blame EA. Jade Empire sucks too.

LaunchpadMcQ said:
There's more to deep RPG mechanics than just combat, and it's one of the defining characteristics of Mass Effect games (and BioWare games as a whole) which Horizon does not have. Developing your character in meaningful ways is one thing, but I feel like the choices which impact the world are another huge component. I'm only 10 or so hours into Horizon, but I've not seen evidence of that. Actually, the funny thing is I see the same kind of practice I experienced in the ME:A trial, which was variations on the same responses that don't really lead anywhere.

That doesn't really mean much to me, though, since it's not at the forefront of Horizon's identity like it is in other games.

Mass Effect 1 offered barely any player freedom, and that game offered far more freedom and agency to players than sequels did.

These games are about as linear and tunnel-y as games get.

wolfhowwl · Mar 20, 2017

I knew shit was going to get stupid when they started talking so much about exploration and the mako.

Only contrarian weirdos liked that stuff in 2007.

Sulik2 · Mar 20, 2017

Glad I waited for reviews. Seems like there is good stuff in the game buried under technical issues and bad writing. I'll wait a few months for patches, user mods to fix the inventory and a price drop.

Lime · Mar 20, 2017

wolfhowwl said:
I knew shit was going to get stupid when they started talking so much about exploration and the mako.

Only contrarian weirdos liked that stuff in 2007.

Exploration and Mako aren't the problems that reviewers and others have with the game. Don't twist the reception of the game into something it isn't.

Whales · Mar 20, 2017

wolfhowwl said:
I knew shit was going to get stupid when they started talking so much about exploration and the mako.

Only contrarian weirdos liked that stuff in 2007.

the fuck

the mako was fun af to drive in ME1

bluecapsule · Mar 20, 2017

Well, these scores are disappointing. I'll probably still get some enjoyment out of it though, since I'm a sucker for Bioware RPGs.

jtb said:
Can't blame EA. Jade Empire sucks too.

Jade Empire was awesome! You take that back.

Memento · Mar 20, 2017

Lime said:
uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

This is bad indeed

EventHorizon · Mar 20, 2017

semiconscious said:
unfortunately, depending on sales, i think the lesson ea could just a easily take from this: 'if we have to spend even more money on this franchise in order to create something 'acceptable', well, screw mass effect!' ...

While I think Andromeda will sell well, I also think it will come in under EA's expectations. Also games in a series tend to have a delay of a game before the effects of a bad game are felt. Many people will buy Andromeda simply because of the good will from the prior games. If they feel like they got burnt they'll be much more hesitant the next time. Dragon Age: Inquisition avoided that fate by getting stellar reviews ahead of release. I think gamers have become far more critical because of this.

The criticism of Andromeda has been pretty focused on its lack of a strong story and too much DA:I type filler. It's hard to believe BioWare and EA would ignore that criticism and double down on a path that is clearly getting major push back from gamers. Although the denseness of the devs/publishers is truly head scratching. It seems like the lesson they took from DA:I was not that the filler quests were a problem, but that those quests needed voice work to give them quality. The problem is that voice alone does not make a quest memorable.

Canucked · Mar 20, 2017

I'm gonna wait on this. I was all in for it for a long time but gonna hold off.

SargerusBR · Mar 20, 2017

Jarmel said:
Dragon Age 2 reviewed higher than this. So it's less Andromeda is the DA2 of the ME franchise and more DA2 is the Andromeda of the Dragon Age franchise.

I think that reviewers are much more critical now and use the score system more appropriately than back in the early 2010's

thepenguin55 · Mar 20, 2017

Danis Saur said:
Thanks for the responses, and I agree with you all actually. My example would be the ones others are mentioning: Destiny. Fun gameplay, hours spent, but nothing to brag about when it came to story or characters. I just stand with my position about spending $60 for this specific Mass Effect, a series where story and characters were a fascination with the fans.

Well, the jury is still out for me personally related to the story. It doesn't make a great first impression but its left me interested enough to want to see more of it. Some reviews were negative about the story and some were not. Something I keep in mind when looking at reviews of this game is that ME3 has a 93 metacritic while this game has a 75... from top to bottom I already like this game far more than ME3. I like ME3 and am generally a defender of that game but that game has some issues (particularly the story and the characters that aren't Garrus, Tali, Liara or Wrex).

Soul of the Beast · Mar 20, 2017

Gamezone said:
Some bugs in this game are just mind blowing. If you are wearing a helmet, the rain will just hit your face inside of the helmet, and skip the helmet completely. It`s so weird.

The future SUCKS.

Par Score · Mar 20, 2017

dmaul1114 said:
It's a term that shifted over the past 10-15 years. For those of us that were on forums back in the N64/PS1 era (maybe before, we didn't have internet at home during the early gens for me) AAA generally just meant the cream of the crop games. The absolute must play, on most top 10 GOTY list type games. A lot of people would say things like "AAA or no play" as a way of saying they only had time to play the best of the best, for instance.

There wasn't so much knowledge of budget etc. back then. Plus without the indie scene most games were either similar budget, with the exception of some of what we'd call mid-tier games today.

But yeah, now it gets used just to mean huge budget games from the major publishers.

AAA has always referred to budget, not quality.

Your understanding of that may have shifted, but the terminology itself hasn't changed.

SuperBanana · Mar 20, 2017

Lime said:
uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

I found the gay character in ME3 and the Trans character in DA:I really well written. This seems a bit weird.

TheXbox · Mar 20, 2017

Have Bioware totally eschewed player agency within the narrative?

Freeman76 · Mar 20, 2017

I wonder how many people have cancelled their preorders today.

Omega Kirby · Mar 20, 2017

75 for a mass effect game is pretty bad

inky · Mar 20, 2017

wolfhowwl said:
I knew shit was going to get stupid when they started talking so much about exploration and the mako.

Only contrarian weirdos liked that stuff in 2007.

Contrarian? WTF you talking about?

Some of us liked it from the start. The problem is not that they exist in a game about planet exploration, it is that Bioware doesn't know how to do them well, apparently. From some of the reviews it's just errands and MMO design, not meaningful content.

Lime said:
uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

Ugh. This is the far, even utopian future. How is this even a thing anymore?

Bedlam · Mar 20, 2017

wolfhowwl said:
I knew shit was going to get stupid when they started talking so much about exploration and the mako.

Only contrarian weirdos liked that stuff in 2007.

The Mako was fine. Much better than the planet scanning. Unfortunately they brought it back by Ubisofting the game, giving you a map with a lot of tedious, repetitive tasks.

The point where it actually got stupid is when they talked up the softcore porn aspect of the game. Sad state of affairs for Bioware, shows how creatively bankrupt and shallow their writing department has become.

Jarmel · Mar 20, 2017

SargerusBR said:
I think that reviewers are much more critical now and use the score system more appropriately than back in the early 2010's

Eurogamer said this was probably their worse RPG ever so no that excuse doesn't work.

LotusHD · Mar 20, 2017

Lime said:
uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

Uhh

Syrus · Mar 20, 2017

I played as dude ryder but not sure if I want to do female one... fem asian seems neat too

CharminUltra · Mar 20, 2017

75MC isn't bad at all. That said, sounds like the game will be a solid 80-85 once some of the issues are patched (which I hope they will be.)

Maledict · Mar 20, 2017

jtb said:
Can't blame EA. Jade Empire sucks too.

Mass Effect 1 offered barely any player freedom, and that game offered far more freedom and agency to players than sequels did.

These games are about as linear and tunnel-y as games get.

Um, mass Effect 1 had far less player choice in it than ME2. You go to these planets in this order, you chose one of two squad mates to die, then you kill the big bad. It was incredibly hard to not recruit all your crew mates.

ME2 you got to not recruit various crew members (including selling one off to Cerberus!), you got to chose whether you did loyalty missions, and the choices you made in the suicide mission determined whether people lived or died. You could have a run where everyone survived, or a run where everyone including Shepherd died.

dubq · Mar 20, 2017

Freeman76 said:
I wonder how many people have cancelled their preorders today.

I'm debating doing it in favour of waiting on a collected edition with whatever dlc is coming down the pipeline. I'm trying to get out of the habit of buying these AAA games for full price and then their seasons passes for another $30-50. =\

MTC100 · Mar 20, 2017

rdytoroll said:
What does EA have to do with this? EA is not the almighty boogeyman people think it is. This game is not even done by the Bioware A-Team. And they had 5 years, like come on... It's not always EA's fault

You might think that but there is Evidence:

. EA was the worst place to work in the industry for several years in a row.
. EA killed Sim City with their stupid and wrong always online arguments.
. EA bought Westwood only to shatter the studio and let some amateurs create C&C Generals
. EA is known for pushing games that aren't finished to the market

Yes, Mass Effect Andromeda might have had enough time but clearly not the best direction, still: Name a single really good release from EA since Mass Effect 3 -and even that game felt rushed.

Iriscomeback · Mar 20, 2017

Bad showing for Mass Effect and Bioware.

Very disappointed. Let's hope they can salvage it somewhat with patches/updates.

jtb · Mar 20, 2017

I've wondered for a while whether EA truly sees BioWare as one of their AAA tentpoles. Dragon Age and Mass Effect sell well, but not like mega-hits like Battlefield, and it doesn't seem to be the type of game that EA ships out 5m copies to retail through just sheer brute force and marketing dollars.

If anything, I've long suspected that EA bought BioWare solely because they panicked about the Activision/Blizzard merger and thought they needed a WoW killer to compete in the market. EA and BioWare seem like such a strange fit. (Also, shuttering Pandemic like a year after buying them... what the fuck?)

I'd be very interested to see what EA's expectations for BioWare were when they first purchased them, and how they fit into their overall strategy today. Because they really don't seem to know what the hell to do with them.

KodaRuss · Mar 20, 2017

This is pretty fruatrating as I really enjoyed most of Mass Effect. I am going to wait for a sale and it sounds like it would be cruel to go from Horizon to this game.

We were bound for a just okay game in 2017 right Gaf? Looks like this game has broken the streak.

Schlorgan · Mar 20, 2017

I can see this selling fine. I can see Montreal going back to just being a support studio from here on out though.

Vital Tundra · Mar 20, 2017

Regardless of the animations and other questionable things found in the game, I did not expect the game to be getting literal average scores.

LaunchpadMcQ · Mar 20, 2017

jtb said:
Mass Effect 1 offered barely any player freedom, and that game offered far more freedom and agency to players than sequels did.

These games are about as linear and tunnel-y as games get.

In terms of RPGs, ME is much more linear in this sentiment, yeah; I won't argue against that. But it's stuff like having your decisions impact events later in the respective game or in later games, which the original trilogy definitely does.

MTC100 said:
Yes, Mass Effect Andromeda might have had enough time but clearly not the best direction, still: Name a single really good release from EA since Mass Effect 3 -and even that game felt rushed.

Battlefield 1 and Titanfall 2, even if the latter suffered in sales from EA's stupid release date timing.

Schlorgan · Mar 20, 2017

MTC100 said:
You might think that but there is Evidence:

. EA was the worst place to work in the industry for several years in a row.
. EA killed Sim City with their stupid and wrong always online arguments.
. EA bought Westwood only to shatter the studio and let some amateurs create C&C Generals
. EA is known for pushing games that aren't finished to the market

Yes, Mass Effect Andromeda might have had enough time but clearly not the best direction, still: Name a single really good release from EA since Mass Effect 3 -and even that game felt rushed.

Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare
Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare 2
Unravel
Battlefield 1
Titanfall
Titanfall 2

Deleted member 752119 · Mar 20, 2017

Par Score said:
AAA has always referred to budget, not quality.

Your understanding of that may have shifted, but the terminology itself hasn't changed.

I can only speak to how it was used on the forums I frequented back in the day, which was as a statement of quality. I assumed it got picked up from things like the financial industry where an AAA rating on bonds etc. are the top recommendations.

Granted, I haven't seen it used that way much at all in the past 10-15 years so it's long since moot in any case. And a shame we don't have any shorthand for referring to the cream of the crop type games anymore.

SirPinkyNose · Mar 20, 2017

Lime said:
uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

Jesus fucking Christ.
What the fuck is this?
Yeah people might be wrong for calling Bioware being a sjw dev who cares about pandering rather than making good game, but shits like this ain't gonna do them any favor.

jtb · Mar 20, 2017

Maledict said:
Um, mass Effect 1 had far less player choice in it than ME2. You go to these planets in this order, you chose one of two squad mates to die, then you kill the big bad. It was incredibly hard to not recruit all your crew mates.

ME2 you got to not recruit various crew members (including selling one off to Cerberus!), you got to chose whether you did loyalty missions, and the choices you made in the suicide mission determined whether people lived or died. You could have a run where everyone survived, or a run where everyone including Shepherd died.

ME2 is one of the most linear games ever created.

You can "choose" to fail the suicide mission, in the same way that you can "choose" to not shoot back at enemies in a first person shooter. Okay, but then you're clearly going against the design of the game.

When players are offered an optimal choice and several sub-optimal choices, that's not offering players freedom, it's doing the exact opposite. If a game punishes you for not playing a certain way, then it's clearly telling the player: "Hey you! Play this way, not that way!"

TalonJH · Mar 20, 2017

Whales said:
the fuck

the mako was fun af to drive in ME1

People hated the Mako, but I actually enjoyed it as well. lol

Kalentan · Mar 20, 2017

EventHorizon said:
While I think Andromeda will sell well, I also think it will come in under EA's expectations. Also games in a series tend to have a delay of a game before the effects of a bad game are felt. Many people will buy Andromeda simply because of the good will from the prior games. If they feel like they got burnt they'll be much more hesitant the next time. Dragon Age: Inquisition avoided that fate by getting stellar reviews ahead of release. I think gamers have become far more critical because of this.

Honestly feel like peoples view on DA:I will probably become a bit better depending on how DA4 follows up the Trespasser DLC. Unlikely that ME:A will have the same fate since...

Spoilers for DA:I + Trespasser DLC:

It's one big villain origin story.

The amount of potential DA4 has on it's hands is crazy.

VincentMatts · Mar 20, 2017

entremet said:
Doesn't he work for MS now?

i wish

Symbiotx · Mar 20, 2017

bluecapsule said:
Well, these scores are disappointing. I'll probably still get some enjoyment out of it though, since I'm a sucker for Bioware RPGs.

Jade Empire was awesome! You take that back.

I loved Jade Empire!

Jarmel · Mar 20, 2017

People who hate the Mako have the worst taste.

Alter_Fridge · Mar 20, 2017

ridley182 said:
75MC isn't bad at all. That said, sounds like the game will be a solid 80-85 once some of the issues are patched (which I hope they will be.)

Sadly you can't just patch bad narrative or world building

jtb · Mar 20, 2017

Sorry folks, Jade Empire is maybe the single most overrated game of all time. I remember the crushing disappointment of playing the game at launch like it was yesterday.

:'(

rdytoroll · Mar 20, 2017

MTC100 said:
You might think that but there is Evidence:

. EA was the worst place to work in the industry for several years in a row.
. EA killed Sim City with their stupid and wrong always online arguments.
. EA bought Westwood only to shatter the studio and let some amateurs create C&C Generals
. EA is known for pushing games that aren't finished to the market

Yes, Mass Effect Andromeda might have had enough time but clearly not the best direction, still: Name a single really good release from EA since Mass Effect 3 -and even that game felt rushed.

How about Battlefield 1 and Titanfall 2 just in the last year? Both great games. Both with amazing multiplayer, Titanfall with one of the best FPS campaigns in recent years. I just don't get how 5 years of development time = EA pushing the game to release asap. EA got a lot better in the last few years. It's not always the publishers fault, it's okay to hold the developer accountable.

Spinx · Mar 20, 2017

Jarmel said:
People who love the Mako have the worst taste.

Pretty much.

FinaruDensetsu · Mar 20, 2017

Is it bad if I want to play it for no reason other than to see all the funny facial animations and stuff? Comedy is really difficult in games and rarely do games get a laugh out of me.

Kaako · Mar 20, 2017

Lime said:
uh oh, apparently the game also has a badly written

trans npc :/

Faceplants all around it seems, especially in the writing department judging by some of the stuff I've read/seen of the game. Bioware, you had one job...

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