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What are you reading? (May 2017)

Danielsan

Member
Finished The Lathe of Heaven today. I thoroughly enjoyed that. I will definitely pick up another one of Ursula Le Guin's books in the future.

Now on to a short book that was recommend in the Cosmic Horror thread: The Willows. Hopefully ye old English won't give me too much trouble.
 

B4s5C

Member
Really enjoying this

41F75p2GedL._SX330_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Some choice quotes:

“You look at where you're going and where you are and it never makes sense, but then you look back at where you've been and a pattern seems to emerge.”

“If someone's ungrateful and you tell him he's ungrateful, okay, you've called him a name. You haven't solved anything.”

“It's the sides of the mountain which sustain life, not the top.”
 
6MXMNLZ.jpg


I caught maybe the last 10 minutes of this movie a while back ago, and found it interesting enough to pick-up the book when I saw this copy. In mind I thought the movie and book took place in one day (like American Graffiti or Dazed & Confused), and it was centered around the local theater closing down. Well I was wrong. What an amazing tale of a dying community and way of life in small town Texas. Also I was surprised at not only the book's sense of humor, but how much of it was centered around sex in a small town (it is like a better quality Peyton Place). I am planning to read the other 2 books in the trilogy, and finally watching the whole movie.
 
It's a bit of an obvious/cliché recommendation, but I really enjoy the Forgotten Realms series, specifically R. A. Salvatore's Icewind Dale Trilogy. FR is the basis for most well-known, "traditional" Dungeons & Dragons campaigns (including BioWare's Baldur's Gate), and Salvatore is one of the writers that fleshes that universe out and makes it such a pleasure to explore.

I'm on a fantasy kick right now and this looks cool. Any thoughts on if I should start with Legend of Drizzt 1 or go right to The Crystal Shard (Legend of Drizzt IV)?
 
Is Prime Reading the new version of the Kindle Lending Library? Or is everything with that little prime check free to read at any pace, as much as I want?
 

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
”Don't do what you can't undo, until you've considered what you can't do once you've done it."

I finished Assassin's Apprentice By Robin Hobb, it was wonderful, it was really really good. The characters i liked i really liked and the characters i hated i really hated, it was Just written so well. I am definitely gonna read the rest of the series now but i think i need a breather, i think i'm gonna read American Gods next or Annihilation.
 

Mumei

Member
I listened to the audiobook of People in the Trees. I immediately deleted and got a refund. I was so disgusted I didn't even want it in my digital library.

I had that same feeling of revulsion, but it was part of what I liked about the experience!
 
I'm halfway through the audiobook for The Republic of Thieves. So far I'm enjoying it a lot more than Red Seas Under Red Skies. Hopefully it doesn't take a sharp left turn like that book did with those boring-ass pirates!

I also just started A Fire Upon the Deep. Hard sci-fi is not usually what I go for, but it's Tor's free ebook of the month and I thought the description sounded cool. The prologue seemed extremely.. esoteric, and filled to the gills with technobabble. I was afraid that the whole book would be like that. But thankfully the first chapter was much more understandable. This book is definitely outside of my comfort zone!
 

aravuus

Member
Couple of chapters away from finishing The North Water. A wildly varying experience, I'd say. Ranges from beautifully morbid and dark, almost poetic prose to some of the most boring stuff I've read in a while. Unfortunately there's a bit more of the latter.

Still, the short chapters and fast pace has made it a great book to read at work during various breaks, and overall it has been a solid enough read. Probably gonna pick up Prince of Thorns next as my go-to coffee break book due to it being similar to The North Water in chapter length and tone.

No better way to clear my mind of java and XML bullshit than reading about the myriad of disgusting ways people can kill each other.

--

Wouldn't mind hearing some recommendations for good coffee break books, though. All I'm really looking for is a good read with short (5 to 10 pages) chapters, everything else is secondary.
 

TheOfficeMut

Unconfirmed Member
Bought e-book Frankenstein on Amazon for $.99 at the suggestion of several people in a classic literature thread I had made. I was worried that I was too used to reading materials based solely in the sciences that I had forgotten to interpret literature, when just before buying this book I decided to try A Tale of Two Cities (which I have some difficult understanding and much less an interest in). Frankenstein is going well so far, although I'm only in the preface with the letters written to Margaret. I have a complete understanding of what's going on here. I understand that A Tale of Two Cities was initially serialized, but was Dickens really this shitty of a writer (in my opinion)?
 

severin

Member
cover.jpg


Aw yiss. HHhH is one f my all time favourites so I am psyched for this one. Gonna start after I finish Dark Matter (which is pretty okay so far).
 

Magus1234

Member
Frankenstein is going well so far, although I'm only in the preface with the letters written to Margaret. I have a complete understanding of what's going on here. I understand that A Tale of Two Cities was initially serialized, but was Dickens really this shitty of a writer (in my opinion)?

Well Frankenstein was "authored" by a 19 year old girl so I imagine it will not be as hard to comprehend. Whether you like Dickens or not is a question of taste you seem to have already concluded. Universally he is considered an amazing writer though, if that is what you are asking.
 

mu cephei

Member
I think the difference
is twofold: First, Fitz is in a very different set of circumstances, especially in the Farseer Trilogy, and second, Hobb enjoys passing the Idiot Ball around to her protagonists, so I start trying to tell the characters, "Hey, maybe communicate with one another about your plans," or, "Why are you letting the little girl hang out with you while you say everything," or, "Look, you don't have to give Regal all of the initiative here..." or "Chade, this secrecy is actually becoming counterproductive; the only people you seem to be keeping in the dark is Fitz and the reader."

As for the circumstances, while they are both characters who are ostensibly highborn, they come to adulthood by very different paths. Whatever issues Miles suffers because of his physical handicaps, he has the unstinting support of his parents, he's friends with the Emperor; he has the opportunity to choose his own path in life (and if he feels the pressure to live up to his father's status, it's pressure he puts on himself rather than what comes from the outside). It's a generally supportive and open environment in which he grew up, notwithstanding wider society's issues with physical deformities.

Fitz, on the other hand, after being more or less unceremoniously bestowed upon Buckkeep is then practically raised in the stables to the extent that he forms a particularly intense Wit-Bond with Nosy (only to be traumatized by that separation and harms the relationship with Burrich). Even once he has been recognized by King Shrewd, he's still a bastard. His role in life as an assassin (the training of which furthers his tendency for secrecy and isolation) has already been set for him—except that the guy who is supposed to be teaching him to use the Skill despises him, makes him believe that he has no talent for the Skill, and tells him to kill himself. Oh, and he falls in love but can't actually have the relationship in the open because the King wants a more politically astute marriage.

Is it any wonder that he is deeply repressed, socially and emotionally isolated in his relationships with humans, or that those characteristics are maladaptive when he's faced with perceiving the contours of a conspiracy? Plus, he's also saddled with allies who don't seem to be of much use in the short term—everyone seems to know that Regal is up to no good, but all spend several novels talking themselves into inaction or talking in circumlocutions.

I finished Assassin's Fate a few days ago. I didn't re-read the series prior, but I've started reading the whole series through again now, so I can read the final book in the same way as the rest of the series, and not as something new I'm rushing through. The reason I'm mentioning this is that you have just given a really incisive summary of the psychological realism in Fitz's character and using that as a focus (sort of spoiler for the final book)
reveals the whole series as a tragedy on a grand scale
but I'm still working through what I think of it.
The issues caused by his childhood trauma - which we see developing, and are not just recounted after the fact to explain things away later on - impact his behaviour and decisions throughout the series. I'm probably giving too simplistic an interpretation of what you wrote in saying that it appears Miles' happy childhood made him as well-adjusted, ambitious and successful as possible, whereas Fitz's unhappy childhood messed him up and made him fail. But where Miles is driven powerfully, internally, I would say Fitz is kind of more... buffeted about.

As your painfully acute highlight reel of character idiocy showed, Hobb does throw an unlikely amount of trouble in their path and makes characters extremely dense at times. But conversely perhaps Bujold makes things too easy, that characters are too smart, and things fall into alignment in a way that is equally unrealistic.Anyway I definitely agree they are interesting characters to contrast. And sorry if I rather wandered off the point.
 

Ratrat

Member
Well Frankenstein was "authored" by a 19 year old girl so I imagine it will not be as hard to comprehend. Whether you like Dickens or not is a question of taste you seem to have already concluded. Universally he is considered an amazing writer though, if that is what you are asking.
Sounds like your knocking her? Shes a genius and its one of the best horror novels of all time.
Her overall best novel too.
 

Grimalkin

Member
I am looking for some good non-fiction history or biography books.

Currently reading "13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened In Benghazi" and up next is "Richard Nixon: The Life" by John A. Farrell. The Benghazi book is... interesting.

I suppose my current reading picks reflect my desire to see how America got into the state it is in. I can't wait until we start getting Bush/Obama historians 20+ years down the road. As far as I am aware, right now the books written about them are "hot takes" with obvious bias or agenda.
 

Magus1234

Member
Sounds like your knocking her? Shes a genius and its one of the best horror novels of all time.
Her overall best novel too.

Not really, I like her work and her mothers, I was just under the impression that her husband had a lot to do with the novel.
 

Magus1234

Member
I've never heard that. Source? Its very much in line with her other works stylistically.

My source would be google at this point, it was a lit professor that told me about his contribution. I have no idea myself, if it is not the case so be it. I guess she could have been a genius and wrote the novel at 19, just as likely I suppose.
 

Pau

Member
My source would be google at this point, it was a lit professor that told me about his contribution. I have no idea myself, if it is not the case so be it. I guess she could have been a genius and wrote the novel at 19, just as likely I suppose.
You can see her original draft and the edits Percy made. She's very much a genius and it's a sexist narrative that tries to take that away from her tbh.
 

Magus1234

Member
You can see her original draft and the edits Percy made. She's very much a genius and it's a sexist narrative that tries to take that away from her tbh.

Suppose it is at it's root, hard to believe my professor at the time(who was very liberal) would think like that though especially when we covered her mother as well. Maybe he just heard it and never questioned it, kinda like I did I guess.
 

Pau

Member
Suppose it is at it's root, hard to believe my professor at the time(who was very liberal) would think like that though especially when we covered her mother as well. Maybe he just heard it and never questioned it, kinda like I did I guess.
Yeah it was a popular theory for a while so I wouldn't be surprised if someone heard it from a figure of authority and didn't question it.
 

Mumei

Member
The issues caused by his childhood trauma - which we see developing, and are not just recounted after the fact to explain things away later on - impact his behaviour and decisions throughout the series. I'm probably giving too simplistic an interpretation of what you wrote in saying that it appears Miles' happy childhood made him as well-adjusted, ambitious and successful as possible, whereas Fitz's unhappy childhood messed him up and made him fail. But where Miles is driven powerfully, internally, I would say Fitz is kind of more... buffeted about.

As your painfully acute highlight reel of character idiocy showed, Hobb does throw an unlikely amount of trouble in their path and makes characters extremely dense at times. But conversely perhaps Bujold makes things too easy, that characters are too smart, and things fall into alignment in a way that is equally unrealistic.Anyway I definitely agree they are interesting characters to contrast. And sorry if I rather wandered off the point.

I think that the frustrating thing
about Fitz is that he hasn't shown the kind of character development you would have expected him to, or that Hobb is frankly capable of writing. We have seen her write characters who develop properly—look at Wintrow or Malta, especially. But Fitz gets stuck in ruts, returning again and again to the same same thought processes, the same shortsightedness, and the same issues. I believe this is intentional, but it is frustrating for Fitz in his in his 30s or 40s or 60s to be making the same mistakes he made as a teenager. This kind of long-term inability to learn from the past seems to affect other characters, as well (Fool: cryptic riddles do not help), though none quite so acutely as Fitz.

I think that Miles is allowed to benefit from, yes, an unusually competent cast (even Ivan is competent enough in his own way), but he is also is allowed both to grow and to grow up. He screws up significantly on occasion, but also consciously examines himself as a result of those mistakes and gets better. This is a significant part of the bildungsroman part of his story, and the novels past that point (in his middle age) also show him as, yes, a middle-aged man. He's still the same person, but he's also more mature and more grounded in a way that he wasn't as a teenager or in his early twenties.

It's something Hobb very rarely gives to Fitz. It's something that I've always found deeply frustrating about the series. On some level, I can explain it to myself as a product of his particular life experiences and psychology—but I feel manipulated by it. I know that's weird; A Little Life is far more egregious in its portrayal of a character who is refused the ability to outgrow his traumas, but *shrug.*
 

Mumei

Member
In between spoilered conversations with mu cephei, I have also read half of the first volume of Otherworld Barbara, a quarter of Kim Stanley Robinson's (who is, I learned very recently, actually a man) Red Mars, and finished reading Phoenix: An Unnatural Biography of a Mythical Beast by Joseph Nigg (kind of boring overall, but with some interesting bits. I'd recommend reading the bits that sound interesting and skipping the rest if the subject intrigues you), Little, Big by John Crowley (very interesting, lovely prose, probably missed a lot, appreciated the inclusion of the review at the end to remind me of some of the arc), and The Uplift War by David Brin (never would've expected this series to become this interesting!)
 
Started a book club (if you'd call it that. Just the two of us reading the same book, really) with a friend, and we decided to kick things off with "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christie
Finished it last night. This was my first Christie book - I went in with pretty high expectations, and came out fairly impressed.

Quick question about the influence of this book: so, the whole "party of 10 (or less) invited to a mansion/haunted house for a mysterious reason, and then people start to die" situation has been used a lot in literature and cinema. I was wondering, where does And Then There Were None stand on the timeline of these types of plots? Did this story start the trend, or were there other [noteworthy] films and/or books of a similar nature that came before it? I've always really enjoyed this type of plot, and from the perspective of having seen/read a lot of modern stuff with this setting, and then going back to a 1939 novel, I could really see some of the influences it must have had on future media.
 

Zona

Member
In between spoilered conversations with mu cephei, I have also read half of the first volume of Otherworld Barbara, a quarter of Kim Stanley Robinson's (who is, I learned very recently, actually a man) Red Mars, and finished reading Phoenix: An Unnatural Biography of a Mythical Beast by Joseph Nigg (kind of boring overall, but with some interesting bits. I'd recommend reading the bits that sound interesting and skipping the rest if the subject intrigues you), Little, Big by John Crowley (very interesting, lovely prose, probably missed a lot, appreciated the inclusion of the review at the end to remind me of some of the arc), and The Uplift War by David Brin (never would've expected this series to become this interesting!)

I see the pace of your reading has really taken a dive.
;)

Anyway, some highlights of what I've been reading.

%7B96F27AF3-D5A9-4378-B59A-C43E614BF102%7DImg100.jpg

Great ending to the series. Author really likes putting her characters through the wringer though.

cover-city-of-miracles.jpg


Wonderfully bittersweet.

Tinker+Tailor+Soldier+Spy+Penguin+book+cover+by+Matt+Taylor+John+Le+Carre+George+Smiley.jpg
The+Honourable+Schoolboy+Penguin+paperback+cover+by+Matt+Taylor+John+Le+Carre+George+Smiley.jpg

Great spy fiction. Real spy fiction, Bond would have been shot in about twenty minutes.
 

Cyan

Banned
My sense of Fitz is that as Mumei alludes to, he's supposed to be incredibly competent but... just isn't, particularly. He also occasionally holds the idiot ball as part of Hobb's annoying pattern of cheating to make things harder for her characters. Honestly I just don't read Hobb anymore; she's a great writer but she always seems to have it in for her characters in a way that I just don't enjoy reading. I don't need authors to cheat in favor of their characters or be all sunshine and puppies, but Hobb goes way too hard in the other direction.

Miles is allowed to be happy, is allowed to have victories, and is highly competent on the page in a way that's completely believable for him. He doesn't have to hold the idiot ball to screw up, and I rarely felt like Bujold cheated on his behalf. I can think of, like, two or three examples where she arguably did, but the only recent one happened in the same book where Miles's bad habits finally catch up to him all at once, so it all kind of works out.
 
Finished The Great Gatsby for school. Fitzgerald's imagery and diction is incredible
("an urban distaste for the concrete" is one of my favorite phrases ever.)

Bought Kafka on the Shore with the intent to reread it, I've always felt that it's a novel about the month of May, but I think I'll be finishing Our Mathematical Universe and Wind, Sand and Stars before going on a new venture. Considering to read the first volume of In Search of Lost Time. Also found a paperback version of 1Q84 with the pagination I wanted, so I bought that as well. No regrets whatsoever! Bought a translation of the Illiad for a friend as well, and I liked the few snippets I read here and there. So perhaps I'll give that a try soon, as well. I think I'll drop At The Mountains of Madness.

I'll try to give some classics a try this summer. I focus too much on contemporary literature for a person still considering becoming an author.
 

Shyranui

Neo Member
I've just read A Wizard of Earthsea.And I've really liked it.

At first I wasn't feeling it, it was too fast. But around chapter three maybe my mentallity changed or something but I started to enjoy it. I think I was expecting a typical adventure but what I got was like a legend. It did not have everything described in detail, but I thought it didn't need it. What it had was enough. And I think the world building was pretty good.

Are the other works of Le Guin this fast-paced? Especially the sci-fi ones?

I was already going to read The Left Hand of Darkness, but now I am even more excited to do it.

Are there another authors/books with this kind of fast-paced style?
 

mu cephei

Member
I think that the frustrating thing
about Fitz is that he hasn't shown the kind of character development you would have expected him to, or that Hobb is frankly capable of writing. We have seen her write characters who develop properly—look at Wintrow or Malta, especially. But Fitz gets stuck in ruts, returning again and again to the same same thought processes, the same shortsightedness, and the same issues. I believe this is intentional, but it is frustrating for Fitz in his in his 30s or 40s or 60s to be making the same mistakes he made as a teenager. This kind of long-term inability to learn from the past seems to affect other characters, as well (Fool: cryptic riddles do not help), though none quite so acutely as Fitz.

I think that Miles is allowed to benefit from, yes, an unusually competent cast (even Ivan is competent enough in his own way), but he is also is allowed both to grow and to grow up. He screws up significantly on occasion, but also consciously examines himself as a result of those mistakes and gets better. This is a significant part of the bildungsroman part of his story, and the novels past that point (in his middle age) also show him as, yes, a middle-aged man. He's still the same person, but he's also more mature and more grounded in a way that he wasn't as a teenager or in his early twenties.

It's something Hobb very rarely gives to Fitz. It's something that I've always found deeply frustrating about the series. On some level, I can explain it to myself as a product of his particular life experiences and psychology—but I feel manipulated by it. I know that's weird; A Little Life is far more egregious in its portrayal of a character who is refused the ability to outgrow his traumas, but *shrug.*

Yeah, actually the comparison
to A Little Life crossed my mind too. I suppose the difference is, I felt very manipulated by A Little Life as well (for the rest of the book after the Caleb abuse, as I've said before). For me, Hobb is convincing in showing why Fitz becomes the man he does, and how new events even exacerbate existing issues. And I think he does change in some ways, but they're subtle. The gradual fading of his Wit use, for example, or of his assassin skills, change his perspective/ focus slightly. He never learns to trust, but there's plenty of foundation for this. At a stretch, it might be possible to argue that it's a pretty good comment on how the fantasy assassin trope might actually be really really permanently damaging for the assassin.

That's not to say it doesn't bother me - the middle book of this final series drove me up the wall sometimes with the communication issues between Fitz and the Fool. But I find it more irritating when the idiot ball affects the other characters, and also, their lack of trust in Fitz. But I think it is so hard to see it from their point of view, and things seem so unfair, because of how entrenched we become in Fitz's point of view. It seemed mad to me that Nettle might want to take custody of Bee away from Fitz. We only know her view as she explains it to Fitz, and it seems horribly unfair. But Nettle has a whole world of thought Fitz - and we - will never know about. And as you point out, some a few characters do grow or change quite significantly.

I need to get on with the Vorkosigan saga!

My sense of Fitz is that as Mumei alludes to, he's supposed to be incredibly competent but... just isn't, particularly. He also occasionally holds the idiot ball as part of Hobb's annoying pattern of cheating to make things harder for her characters. Honestly I just don't read Hobb anymore; she's a great writer but she always seems to have it in for her characters in a way that I just don't enjoy reading. I don't need authors to cheat in favor of their characters or be all sunshine and puppies, but Hobb goes way too hard in the other direction.

Miles is allowed to be happy, is allowed to have victories, and is highly competent on the page in a way that's completely believable for him. He doesn't have to hold the idiot ball to screw up, and I rarely felt like Bujold cheated on his behalf. I can think of, like, two or three examples where she arguably did, but the only recent one happened in the same book where Miles's bad habits finally catch up to him all at once, so it all kind of works out.

Perhaps there's less of it later on, but the most recent volume I read was Miles, Mystery & Mayhem (Cetaganda, Ethan of Athos, Labyrinth). In Labyrinth, it was ludicrously unlikely
that when climbing up that shaft, they just happen to stumble on Ryoval's secret lab, a single lab, where all of his genetic stuff - his fortune! - is. And they manage to destroy it. Or in Cetaganda, charming Benin, getting him onside, him coming to the rescue (and how does Ivan always know when to keep schtum and when to call in the cavalry?) Rather than, I don't know, throwing Miles in a cell.
But because it's good luck and charm, rather than the bad luck and antipathy Fitz endures, it somehow gets a pass as being more likely.
 

Quote

Member
I see the pace of your reading has really taken a dive.
;)

Anyway, some highlights of what I've been reading.

%7B96F27AF3-D5A9-4378-B59A-C43E614BF102%7DImg100.jpg

Great ending to the series. Author really likes putting her characters through the wringer though.
This cover is beautiful. I'm such a sucker for book covers, regardless of the old phrase.
 

Cyan

Banned
Perhaps there's less of it later on, but the most recent volume I read was Miles, Mystery & Mayhem (Cetaganda, Ethan of Athos, Labyrinth). In Labyrinth, it was ludicrously unlikely
that when climbing up that shaft, they just happen to stumble on Ryoval's secret lab, a single lab, where all of his genetic stuff - his fortune! - is. And they manage to destroy it. Or in Cetaganda, charming Benin, getting him onside, him coming to the rescue (and how does Ivan always know when to keep schtum and when to call in the cavalry?) Rather than, I don't know, throwing Miles in a cell.
But because it's good luck and charm, rather than the bad luck and antipathy Fitz endures, it somehow gets a pass as being more likely.

I'd actually forgotten those! Been a while since I read them. The early one I was thinking of was from Vor Game.
Finding the Emperor, totally at random, while doing something completely unrelated.
I think I'm a lot more inclined to accept Miles' good luck, not simply because I like him (though that's probably part of it), but because his whole thing is forward momentum, always be moving at all times and seize any opportunity that comes up. So that it feels (to me at least) more like "make your own luck" than "oh golly how convenient that this happened while I was sitting around doing nothing." And we do see that go both ways, as in The Warrior's Apprentice where
Miles seizes enough chances to create his own mercenary group from nothing, but also seizes an apparent chance that turns out to be the totally wrong decision and gets Bothari killed.
 

Mumei

Member
My sense of Fitz is that as Mumei alludes to, he's supposed to be incredibly competent but... just isn't, particularly. He also occasionally holds the idiot ball as part of Hobb's annoying pattern of cheating to make things harder for her characters. Honestly I just don't read Hobb anymore; she's a great writer but she always seems to have it in for her characters in a way that I just don't enjoy reading. I don't need authors to cheat in favor of their characters or be all sunshine and puppies, but Hobb goes way too hard in the other direction.

Miles is allowed to be happy, is allowed to have victories, and is highly competent on the page in a way that's completely believable for him. He doesn't have to hold the idiot ball to screw up, and I rarely felt like Bujold cheated on his behalf. I can think of, like, two or three examples where she arguably did, but the only recent one happened in the same book where Miles's bad habits finally catch up to him all at once, so it all kind of works out.

I think that as regards Fitz's competence, what is particularly frustrating is that you get glimpses of it, moments in which he does really cool things, where you can see the well-trained, competent, royal assassin—and then he's undercut in a really unsatisfying way.

I see the pace of your reading has really taken a dive.
;)
[/IMG]

You joke, but in fact I have been making an effort to get through some books because of that topic!
I'm a few dozen pages from finishing Red Mars.

;)

Yeah, actually the comparison
to A Little Life crossed my mind too. I suppose the difference is, I felt very manipulated by A Little Life as well (for the rest of the book after the Caleb abuse, as I've said before). For me, Hobb is convincing in showing why Fitz becomes the man he does, and how new events even exacerbate existing issues. And I think he does change in some ways, but they're subtle. The gradual fading of his Wit use, for example, or of his assassin skills, change his perspective/ focus slightly. He never learns to trust, but there's plenty of foundation for this. At a stretch, it might be possible to argue that it's a pretty good comment on how the fantasy assassin trope might actually be really really permanently damaging for the assassin.

That's not to say it doesn't bother me - the middle book of this final series drove me up the wall sometimes with the communication issues between Fitz and the Fool. But I find it more irritating when the idiot ball affects the other characters, and also, their lack of trust in Fitz. But I think it is so hard to see it from their point of view, and things seem so unfair, because of how entrenched we become in Fitz's point of view. It seemed mad to me that Nettle might want to take custody of Bee away from Fitz. We only know her view as she explains it to Fitz, and it seems horribly unfair. But Nettle has a whole world of thought Fitz - and we - will never know about. And as you point out, some a few characters do grow or change quite significantly.

I was thinking about this at work (before I saw this post), and I think that the difference for me between Miles and Fitz (and also between Maia and Fitz) is that on some level Miles and Maia can be seen as aspirational. What Maia and Miles both have in common (and Fitz, not so much) is a sense of personal agency over who they choose to be. Not in the sense that Hobb does not give Fitz any agency, but in the sense that one of those characters key traits is the ability to consciously examine their habits and thinking. Miles has a novella and a several-novels long arc about this. In The Goblin Emperor, Maia's personal arc of growing into his role as Emperor is about consciously becoming the kind of ruler he wants to be. He's not automatically a saint; he is aware of small rushes of vindictive pleasure at the use of power; he's aware of his own hatred for Setheris; he's aware of his own corruptibility, and he consciously chooses to do better. Since you are always deep inside his perspective, you see him making these choices again and again.

Fitz is buffeted by the winds of plot (and plotting); he's buffeted by the traumas of his past. I never have had the sense that Fitz has truly stepped back, examined his life, examined his thinking, and made a conscious decision to change something about himself. In that respect, he's more like most of us (I think one of the reasons this trait annoys me is because he reminds me of someone...), but it also makes him a deeply frustrating character to read. One of my biggest complaints with characters during The Liveship Traders was that the characters systematically lacked empathy, in the sense that they seemed utterly unable to truly imagine the perspective of other characters. It was this blind spot that the characters over and over shared. It's clearly not something that Hobb suffers from, but she writes her characters that way. You can see this in how she writes characters who change. Wintrow and Malta, for instance, change less because of any decisions they make about themselves, and more because of how events change them. Fitz operates in the same way, I think.

It's not that Hobb is unconvincing in Fitz himself; exactly; it's that she's unconvincing when I have to believe that Regal somehow managed to create a conspiracy against the Skill, managed to suborn the entire Skill coterie against the King, managed to have other similarly high-ranking people assassinated while somehow himself being a non-target for his opponents, and somehow Chade Fallstar, whose job it is keep up on things manages to miss all this subterfuge (which would have taken years to get prepared with who knows how many people involved in the conspiring), and then once it is in place find himself so completely outplayed that his best solution is "Shut up, Fitz, it's fine." (Narrator: It wasn't fine). I can believe a lot; I find it difficult to believe when one side has a monopoly on proactive thinking, planning, willingness to take risky action in pursuit of a goal (and also get rewarded for it), and the other side kind of... dithers. That said, I do also have some issues with Fitz's basically complete failure to mature. There are things that were believable as a teenager or in his early twenties that were not believable when he was middle-aged.

I need to get on with the Vorkosigan saga!

True. Very true.

Perhaps there's less of it later on, but the most recent volume I read was Miles, Mystery & Mayhem (Cetaganda, Ethan of Athos, Labyrinth). In Labyrinth, it was ludicrously unlikely
that when climbing up that shaft, they just happen to stumble on Ryoval's secret lab, a single lab, where all of his genetic stuff - his fortune! - is. And they manage to destroy it. Or in Cetaganda, charming Benin, getting him onside, him coming to the rescue (and how does Ivan always know when to keep schtum and when to call in the cavalry?) Rather than, I don't know, throwing Miles in a cell.
But because it's good luck and charm, rather than the bad luck and antipathy Fitz endures, it somehow gets a pass as being more likely.

I think that there's a difference
between convenient and unlikely. It's no more likely or unlikely that it would be in any other particular place. Similarly, there were explanations for why Benin responded the way he did to Ivan (having talked to Lord Yenaro in the course of his own investigations). These don't seem to me to be particularly egregious, at least not in the way that they are in The Vor Game where he manages to have multiple chances meetings of exactly the right people in enormous cities.

They are convenient—and it's unlikely that things would be quite as convenient as often as they are. But it also isn't as if Fitz does not get opportunities while scurrying through passages in walls. He sees the Pale Woman while spying. He sees the tattoos on Elliania. He has information that, if he were to pool with others (and the others didn't always work to convince one another that the best action is always inaction), it might have been possible to uncover the Pale Woman's plot before she skinned and murdered the Fool.
 

TripOpt55

Member

I just finished up Sharp Ends by Joe Abercrombie, a collection of short stories from The First Law universe. I really enjoyed the trilogy and the standalones that came after, so I was certainly welcome to reading more stories about this world. The highlights were a series of connected short stories about an odd couple pair of women -- a thief and a warrior type -- who end up going on adventures that span about 15 years and another that showed Logen Ninefingers when he was still Bethod’s champion. The cool thing about the latter is that it comes from Bethod’s point of view which gives a pretty fascinating insight into a character we have only seen from others' POVs (unless I am forgetting something) as well as another angle on who Logen was before the main series started. I also enjoyed a lot of characters, both major and minor, popping up in one fashion or another like Monza Murcatto, Shy South and Bremer dan Gorst. I think I had only read the Shy story before this collection. Anyway, I enjoyed it and as expected there are some damn good action sequences/fight scenes in here.
 
Finished reading this earlier this week...

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It was a decent read. A bit slow but the relatively interesting concept kinda made up for it.

Jumped right into

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There's a bunch of Agatha Christie kindle books on sale as the daily deal today - does anyone have recs for someone who has never read her stuff before?
 
There's a bunch of Agatha Christie kindle books on sale as the daily deal today - does anyone have recs for someone who has never read her stuff before?
Only read the comic book adaptation as a kid, but And Then There Were None is a classic (and I'll buy it when I get home). Death On The Nile and Murder on the Orient Express are two other classics as far as I know.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
You know when you're reading something and thinking to yourself, "This would be a fantastic movie"?

That's my experience with Senlin Ascends. I'm not even halfway but my goodness am I enjoying this book. The motley of unique characters and the persistent action in an exotic but all-too familiar environment creates for an exceptionally gripping tale. The book reminds me of Wes Anderson mixed with BioShock mixed with Terry Gilliam mixed with Woody Allen.

Seriously, if you're at all interested in a story that goes full throttle on the ADVENTURE aspect, check out Senlin Ascends.
 

WolfeTone

Member
There's a bunch of Agatha Christie kindle books on sale as the daily deal today - does anyone have recs for someone who has never read her stuff before?

Of the books that are on sale, I've only read And Then There Were None which I enjoyed quite a bit. For that price it's a no brainer.

I picked up several other of these books today thanks to this sale. Christie books are quite short and well-paced so you can get through them fairly quickly.
 
Currently reading The Troop by Nick Cutter. I'm enjoying it so far - parts are a little gross but it's well-written and an interesting premise. Looking forward to reading his other books.

Seriously, if you're at all interested in a story that goes full throttle on the ADVENTURE aspect, check out Senlin Ascends.

Oh, cool! I picked this book up on a whim a few weeks ago. I knew nothing about it and thought it looked interesting. I'll have to bump it up in my list.
 

proto

Member
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Great ending to the series. Author really likes putting her characters through the wringer though.
How is the rest of the series compare to book one? I finished A Darker Shade of Magic and was lukewarm on it. The characters seem kind of flat. Also,
I was VERY upset that Schwab killed off Hollis (by far the most interesting character in the book)
. Everything seemed kind of underdeveloped by the end because it felt like Schwab was just trying to get all the worldbuilding out of the way. Now that the foundation has been laid out in book one I'm curious to see what she does with it because I can easily see the rest of it being awesome.
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
There's a bunch of Agatha Christie kindle books on sale as the daily deal today - does anyone have recs for someone who has never read her stuff before?

And Then There Were None and Murder of the Orient Express are both terrific. They're the only Christie I've read, though.
 
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