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G. Kamitani replies to J. Schreier's Kotaku article on Dragon's Crown (slightly NSFW)

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Xux

Xux

Member
Dang0 said:
Depends on how they do it. In this case though...

Asxedou.gif


Yeah, I'd say so. Not that I'm saying immature is bad, mind you. Some of my favorite games I like BECAUSE they're immature, I just think that we shouldn't pretend stuff like this is in any way mature.
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If she could realistically stand up with those proportions, I imagine that animation would be pretty realistic considering the size of the breasts and lack of bra.
 
S

Shinta

Banned
Dead Man said:
You said you would be offended which is fine, I would hope you would be, you have not actually answered the question. But okay, if you want to cut and run when faced with the absurdity of your position, feel free.
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At least I didn't "agree to disagree." What a cop-out that was.

Instead of constantly asking me to answer hypothetical questions, why not just actually state your position? Get on with making your point, or drop it.
 
A

Akainu

Member
EatChildren said:
I really do pity people who cannot appreciate Dragon Crown's art. It's so beautifully on point for the erotic fantasy style it's trying to be. But I guess some people do have the opinion that sexuality is reserved for teenagers, and not adults.
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I agree Kamitani is amazing.

I'm done with this dead man guy.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
Dang0 said:
Depends on how they do it. In this case though...

Asxedou.gif


Yeah, I'd say so. Not that I'm saying immature is bad, mind you. Some of my favorite games I like BECAUSE they're immature, I just think that we shouldn't pretend stuff like this is in any way mature.
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Your wrong, those are some pretty mature breasts there.
 
M

Marmaladefire

Member
Femmeworth said:
I totally get the picture in the OP being sexy, but this not so much. Would like to hear Bi/GayGAF's opinion or even straight/bi GirlGAF.

It's more accurate to say that exaggerated eroticism is seen as being more juvenile.
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That dwarf isn't sexy (speaking as bi GirlGAF) it's totally a male power thing. Sexual pandering to women is ~generally~ more of a lean muscle, dexterity/stamina/cleverness over pure brute power sort of thing. That isn't supposed to turn me or any gay/bi man on. The sorceress, however is. (Though she's failing as those proportions are just too ridiculous)

While I think the game in general looks cool, I know I could never play as the sorceress because the character design would be plain annoying to me. The response of "u must be gay lolz" isn't really helping his case.
 
S

sleepykyo

Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Whether you like it or not is your own opinion, but the Schreier article blurb suggests it exists as fap material for horny teenagers, rather than putting it into some sort of context - which might actually help to promote some discussion rather than "hey look, gigantic titties!"
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It probably does. As does new Lara Croft. As does Faith. People get way too hung on that. No matter what it is, with 6 billion people on the planet someone is masturbating to something that plenty of other people would find weird.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Shinta said:
At least I didn't "agree to disagree." What a cop-out that was.

Instead of constantly asking me to answer hypothetical questions, why not just actually state your position? Get on with making your point, or drop it.
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What? A cop out to agree to disagree? How have I not been clear in my position? JS attacked an art style and called people who like it juvenile. That is my position. My position is that you are wrong when you say he attacked heterosexuality or heterosexual males. My position is that you cannot read very well if this is the argument you want to present. You are chasing your tail trying to get a 'gotcha' moment instead of actually addressing the situation. And the question being hypothetical is not a criticism of it, unless you think all hypothetical questions are useless. Which would make you not very clever, so I don't think that is your position.

So that is my position, if you have any questions, feel free to ask and I will answer. Care to offer the same?

Akainu said:
I agree Kamitani is amazing.

I'm done with this dead man guy.
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:) Love you too.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Marmaladefire said:
That dwarf isn't sexy (speaking as bi GirlGAF) it's totally a male power thing. Sexual pandering to women is ~generally~ more of a lean muscle, dexterity/stamina/cleverness over pure brute power sort of thing. That isn't supposed to turn me or any gay/bi man on. The sorceress, however is. (Though she's failing as those proportions are just too ridiculous)

While I think the game in general looks cool, I know I could never play as the sorceress because the character design would be plain annoying to me. The response of "u must be gay lolz" isn't really helping his case.
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Speak for yourself! I've seen my share of gay erotic art and this certainly fits into a demographic
 
P

Persona86

Banned
Xux said:
If she could realistically stand up with those proportions, I imagine that animation would be pretty realistic considering the size of the breasts and lack of bra.
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Well she has some pretty strong looking legs, but I assume her back must have problems. Unfortunately big boobs like that(or at least close to it) DO exist in real life and I'm sure it's not very good for the woman's back.
 
R

Replicant

Member
At the very least Kamitani could have drawn some hot-looking guys. But then again maybe those are the kind of guys he normally faps to? *shrug*

That'd explain why he tends to draw his men in that Rob Liefeld style.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Ah there we go Jason. This is why I was telling you to not keep playing "holier than thou" in the Games Journalism thread because it was inevitable you'd shitpost at some point and everyone you'd been riling could point at it, Kotaku, and you, and laugh again.
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
Resisting an attempt to be shamed for what you like or what you create is far more mature than immature. Living under shame in attempt to be "mature" on the other hand...
 
S

Shinta

Banned
Dead Man said:
My position is that you are wrong when you say he attacked heterosexuality or heterosexual males.
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But why? He didn't say that the artist was weird. He said that he was a teenager. This implies that all teenagers would find this attractive. He's saying that any heterosexual that likes exaggerated erotic artwork is not a man. That's a broad criticism of heterosexuality. He's saying that normal heterosexuals should act a certain way, and he knows what that way is.

I still haven't seen why you're so convinced he's saying anything but this. When I trimmed all the insults out of your reply, your point is only the one sentence above. There's not even a rationale offered, just your stubborn adherence to your initial claim. That's not a very good point.

And he's very, very clearly emasculating the artist, and by proxy, all fans of the artwork. I used the word correctly, and gave you the definition even. You "agreed to disagree," which is a cop out. There was no disagreeing about the definition of the word. You were just wrong.
 
T

tafer

Member
Fusebox said:
How the hell are people making the connection between this picture and a gay slur? If anything it's the exact opposite.
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It fuels the faux outrage, so popular these days and then the "outraged" and "offended" have the right to make a big thing about nothing.

Oh, and let's not forget that the made up situation also gives them the right to be huge jerks.

In general, it's a boring show, it gets interesting only when it backfires in epic proportions.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
EatChildren said:
I really do pity people who cannot appreciate Dragon Crown's art. It's so beautifully on point for the erotic fantasy style it's trying to be. But I guess some people do have the opinion that sexuality is reserved for teenagers, and not adults.
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I don't have any problem with erotic fantasy, I actually happen to like it quite a bit. My problem with DC's art is that I feel it tries so hard to make the female's sexy, that it completely misses the mark for the most part. I understand that the exaggerated designs are part of the overall style, but I feel like the push it too far in one direction.

As I said in a previous topic, I think they could tone down the female characters sex appeal a bit and bump up the male characters sexuality a bit and it would feel far more cohesive. I think the NPCs they've shown are a good example of this. They feel a lot more even and are much more appealing IMO.

ULTROS! said:
How about this?
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Again, make him playable and all would be well.
 
S

SixMachine

Member
Marmaladefire said:
It certainly does! But I'll go out on a limb and say that the bear loving gay demo isn't what Vanillaware was going for.
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Isn't there a neogaf thread about some anthromorphic gay dating sim that was floating around like last week? I learned from that thread that Bara is for gay guys who like muscular dudes and that's why a lot of those characters were pretty buff. I also tangentially learned that Chris Redfield has been subject to the bara fandom.
 
R

Replicant

Member
ULTROS! said:
How about this?
Click to expand...

FUG! And monstrous!

SixMachine said:
Isn't there a neogaf thread about some anthromorphic gay dating sim that was floating around like last week? I learned from that thread that Bara is for gay guys who like muscular dudes and that's why a lot of those characters were pretty buff. I also tangentially learned that Chris Redfield has been subject to the bara fandom.
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Chris Redfield is hot. That he becomes the subject of bara fandom is understandable. But old fat guys and feminine guys with big chest? Eh. But then again, his taste may lay on that area.
 
2

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
I guess some people here don't even know what "art" is:

venus of willendorf
200px-Venus_von_Willendorf_01.jpg


Botero's Mona Lisa
botero02.jpg


Realism is not the only form of art.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Replicant said:
At the very least Kamitani could have drawn some hot-looking guys. But then again maybe those are the kind of guys he normally faps to? *shrug*

That'd explain why he tends to draw his men in that Rob Liefeld style.
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Thats like about as homophobic as his reply.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Shinta said:
But why? He didn't say that the artist was weird. He said that he was a teenager. This implies that all teenagers would find this attractive. He's saying that any heterosexual that likes exaggerated erotic artwork is not a man. That's a broad criticism of heterosexuality. He's saying that normal heterosexuals should act a certain way, and he knows what that way is.

I still haven't seen why you're so convinced he's saying anything but this. When I trimmed all the insults out of your reply, your point is only the one sentence above. There's not even a rationale offered, just your stubborn adherence to your initial claim. That's not a very good point.
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I do like your selective quoting and replies :)

No, it is a broad criticism of people who like this art style and character design. That is all it is. And you are criticising me for keeping my initial position now? Gold. I am convinced he is saying that, because it is what he said.

Here, have another question you won't answer or address:

If I call you juvenile for liking the art style, have I called all heterosexuals juvenile?
And he's very, very clearly emasculating the artist, and by proxy, all fans of the artwork. I used the word correctly, and gave you the definition even. You "agreed to disagree," which is a cop out. There was no disagreeing about the definition of the word. You were just wrong.
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No. It means I think you are wrong, and you think I am wrong, and we will not agree so there is no point arguing about it. It was an attempt to sidestep a matter that is only peripherally related to the initial claim you made which is the one I am taking issue with.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Riposte said:
I clearly see feet, so the comparison is invalid.
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It also looks as if the improper proportions are all intentional, rather than trying to more mildly (relatively) exaggerate them only to fuck up key details in ways that really don't work for the style.
 
S

suzu

Member
Some of his designs look ridiculous, but I don't see why the Kotaku article had to say that about the artist.

His art and characters are varied, with some being overly exaggerated. Not everything has to be photo realistic. Although the guy certainly likes boobs, I'm not going to fault him for that.

George's reply, well that was a jokey and juvenile response.

Edit: For the record, I'm female and I don't like the sorceress design. But I'm not upset or disliking the art/art style in general, because the game obviously isn't just all giant boobs.
 
A

alexandros

Banned
Kotaku is absolutely right. The character's design is ridiculous, insulting to both men and women gamers, and it reinforces the negative gamer stereotype of basement-dwelling losers.
 
P

-PXG-

Member
That art eater blog post is amazing. Thanks for sharing Chev. I'm just glad this game and Kamitani's art are getting more exposure.

The faux outrage is utterly ridiculous. People need to accept things for what they are and get over themselves. Stop pretending to be offended and stop standing up for nonexistent causes. You ain't doing shit besides looking like a complete fool. It's not the art that's silly, its you.
 
A

Akainu

Member
Replicant said:
At the very least Kamitani could have drawn some hot-looking guys. But then again maybe those are the kind of guys he normally faps to? *shrug*

That'd explain why he tends to draw his men in that Rob Liefeld style.
Click to expand...
Did you just compare Kamitani to Liefeld?
 
M

Marmaladefire

Member
SixMachine said:
Isn't there a neogaf thread about some anthromorphic gay dating sim that was floating around like last week? I learned from that thread that Bara is for gay guys who like muscular dudes and that's why a lot of those characters were pretty buff. I also tangentially learned that Chris Redfield has been subject to the bara fandom.
Click to expand...

Yup. Bara, as opposed to yaoi (which is generally for women) is for gay men by gay men and often features more muscular men. It's vaguely possible that Vanillaware was going for that, but knowing they're track record, I'd say it's more an overly stylized muscle guy to make male players feel cool, just like the sorceress is an overly stylized boob vessel to look sexy. I don't fault the devs, they know their demographic, and I'll probably play this game anyway should it be localized.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
alexandros said:
Kotaku is absolutely right. The character's design is ridiculous, insulting to both men and women gamers, and it reinforces the negative gamer stereotype of basement-dwelling losers.
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Well you've just insulted all those women out there who like to dress in a seductive way. HOW DARE YOU!?
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
alexandros said:
Kotaku is absolutely right. The character's design is ridiculous, insulting to both men and women gamers, and it reinforces the negative gamer stereotype of basement-dwelling losers.
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Don't show those designs to the cosplayers of Slave Leia and others...

Also, there's this:

UlMkWSC.jpg


Might want to add that to the OP...
 
S

sleepykyo

Member
Replicant said:
At the very least Kamitani could have drawn some hot-looking guys. But then again maybe those are the kind of guys he normally faps to? *shrug*

That'd explain why he tends to draw his men in that Rob Liefeld style.
Click to expand...

Nothing shown so far matches that Cap America pic. Kamitani's style is subjectively bad. Liefeld's art is objectively bad.
 
A

Akainu

Member
Replicant said:
Not bad but still falls onto the shota/feminine path that he established with other designs.



It doesn't look that different from what Kamitani does. On both cases, those hips will break supporting the massive chest of the characters.
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You are full of crap. There is no other explanation.
 
O

orioto

Good Art™
Marmaladefire said:
That dwarf isn't sexy (speaking as bi GirlGAF) it's totally a male power thing. Sexual pandering to women is ~generally~ more of a lean muscle, dexterity/stamina/cleverness over pure brute power sort of thing. That isn't supposed to turn me or any gay/bi man on. The sorceress, however is. (Though she's failing as those proportions are just too ridiculous)

While I think the game in general looks cool, I know I could never play as the sorceress because the character design would be plain annoying to me. The response of "u must be gay lolz" isn't really helping his case.
Click to expand...

I agree with that.
For real equity, they should put some kind of young shirtless guy with a bubble butt, jock strap and giant crotch. Not that equity is an absolute necessity anyway^^
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
Not bad but still falls onto the shota/feminine path that he established with other designs.
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Uh...

Replicant said:
It doesn't look that different from what Kamitani does. On both cases, those hips will break supporting the massive chest of the characters.
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Errr, Kamitami's artwork displays actual understanding of the human body and how it is put together even though it's purposely exaggerated. Can you really not see the skill gap?
 
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