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Vigil in 2012: Wii U "has been on par with what we have with the current generation"

T

The Mana Legend

Banned
I honestly do not care as long as the damn thing is in HD. Nintendo knows how to make amazing looking games with shitty hardware, so I'm not worried at all about the graphical capabilities of the thing.

I just want that goddamn HD, which is now finally here.
 
I

Instro

Member
border said:
I thought that the Xbox was generally considered inferior to the Wii?
Click to expand...

Afaik, the Xbox actually still holds some technical aspects over the Wii. Regardless you're talking about a difference that is incredibly minimal between the consoles. Compared to say the difference between the PS2 and its counterparts, or the 360 and PS3.

Thunderbear said:
This is the new Nintendo and that's why they've been bugging the crap out of me since after the Gamecube. They sell us 5-7 year old technology at a premium price. By limiting power, despite their new gimicks, they are stifling innovation. CPU/GPU power does a lot more than just provide pretty graphics.
Click to expand...

Regardless of how powerful it actually is, the WiiU is custom developed current hardware.
 
T

The Boat

Member
Thunderbear said:
This is the new Nintendo and that's why they've been bugging the crap out of me since after the Gamecube. They sell us 5-7 year old technology at a premium price. By limiting power, despite their new gimicks, they are stifling innovation. CPU/GPU power does a lot more than just provide pretty graphics.

That's why tonnes and tonnes of gameplay experiences just aren't possible on Nintendo consoles that are possible on others. No one is even taking advantage of a current mid-range PC _gameplay_ wise because they have to desigh for the lowest spec (PS360). Once that new generation arrives we'll see plenty of gameplay changes and tonnes of variety.

The more tools (read power, CPU/GPU) you give a GOOD game designer, the more they can do with it.

I hope this report is wrong and that the Wii U is at least substantially more powerful than a PS360 even though I know it won't be as powerful as a PS4Xbox3.

We should have had such a greater looking and playing Zelda experience already and that bothers me. Seeing that tech demo, we should be playing that (in cartoony design or realistic design or inbetween, whatever) right now. Instead we get a game possible on 9 year old hardware.

I would adore Nintendo if they just put a bit more power into their new consoles. To imagine what they would do with a properly specced hardware.. DROOOOL.
Click to expand...

While it's true that CPU/GPU could be there for more than pretty graphics... that's pretty much what it's used for. I don't see that many games boasting ideas and mechanics that wouldn't be feasible on old hardware, most advancements have been skin deep, not to mention that lots of great ideas and breakthroughs came from hardware limitations.
 
M

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Celine said:
Yes and no.
Sure they have diverged the previous focus on graphics into other things but how they design a console with a clear budget and trying to profiting from day one is still there from the eighties.

From the SNES onward when nintendo tried to outdo competition on graphical power they always:
1) cutted out on features not considered priority ( SNES slow CPU, N64 lack of CDrom subsystem etc.) to beef up other areas.
2) waited 1/2 years from competition so components performance/cost ratio was naturally better.

Point one is still there, priorities are just different.
Point two is luckily gone, since it was one of the main culprit in Nintendo downfall in marketshare.
Click to expand...

Is point two really gone? If the rumors are true that it's only marginally better than PS3/360, they've waited 6 years instead of 2 to have a more powerful console.
 
E

Epcott

Member
I'm on the fence about this news.

I care because: (maybe) that means it'll possibly be overlooked by third party devs in favor of the more powerful Xbox720 and PS4... much like Nintendo's problem this current gen.

I don't care because: Nintendo first party games are stellar. Also, the tablet brings a unique gaming experience, that is until 2016 when Sony and MS release their own tablets late into the Xbox720 and PS4 life cycles.
 
S

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
So their only crutch beside the touchscreen is Zelda in HD. Oh boy.
 
Arkam

Arkam

Member
Epcott said:
I'm on the fence about this news.

I care because: (maybe) that means it'll possibly be overlooked by third party devs in favor of the more powerful Xbox720 and PS4... much like Nintendo's problem this current gen.

I don't care because: Nintendo first party games are stellar. Also, the tablet brings a unique gaming experience, that is until 2016 when Sony and MS release their own tablets late into the Xbox720 and PS4 life cycles.
Click to expand...


BINGO!

But I think the first concern only comes into play IF nintendo struggles to move units OR if MS/Sony comes with some cutting edge tech. If Nintendo moves enough units teh first year, they will be fine and get ports of all the gaming staples. They may miss out on a few games that push the other consoles, but it will not be like the Wii.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
MadOdorMachine said:
Is point two really gone? If the rumors are true that it's only marginally better than PS3/360, they've waited 6 years instead of 2 to have a more powerful console.
Click to expand...

Hence, regardless of sales figure, they will make money hand over fist on every console sold with an inflated price, especially, until either Xbox 3 or PS4 comes out. At that point a $50 price drop would be introduced to rejuvenate sales.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
distantmantra said:
That's the funniest shit I've heard in ages.

Drinky is real. Very real, and he's coming for you all.
Click to expand...

Drinky's not real. He's an urban legend created by parents with the intention to scare children who try and get them to buy Nintendo products.
 
D

distantmantra

Member
Oblivion said:
Drinky's not real. He's an urban legend created by parents with the intention to scare children who try and get them to buy Nintendo products.
Click to expand...

That's the thing. It's one thing to tell your kids that he's like the boogie man. But it's even scarier to know that he's real and could be sitting outside your house. right. now.
 
L

lwilliams3

Member
Arkam said:
BINGO!

But I think the first concern only comes into play IF nintendo struggles to move units OR if MS/Sony comes with some cutting edge tech. If Nintendo moves enough units teh first year, they will be fine and get ports of all the gaming staples. They may miss out on a few games that push the other consoles, but it will not be like the Wii.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting your thoughts, Arkam, and I agree. There was several major issues with porting multi-platform games down to the Wii from the 360/PS3 aside from raw power. Since the Wii U will have a more modern feature set and at least 1GB of RAM, it should not have the same issues with running current/future game engines as the Wii.
 
M

Mondriaan

Member
MadOdorMachine said:
Is point two really gone? If the rumors are true that it's only marginally better than PS3/360, they've waited 6 years instead of 2 to have a more powerful console.
Click to expand...
Who can blame them? Nintendo, just like pretty much all the other Japanese devs, absolutely did not want to do HD games. I don't think it was possible for them to hold off any longer or else they would have.
 
T

The Boat

Member
Epcott said:
I'm on the fence about this news.

I care because: (maybe) that means it'll possibly be overlooked by third party devs in favor of the more powerful Xbox720 and PS4... much like Nintendo's problem this current gen.
Click to expand...

They'll be overlooked to some extent either way, I'm sure 3rd parties will find some excuse. Not that Nintendo isn't making it easier for them to do so.
 
M

Medalion

Banned
Nirolak said:
The game director of Darksiders 2 has shared their assessment of the Wii U's hardware in a recent video interview with GameReactor.

I thought people would be interested so I made a transcript (with the "uh's" and "um's" removed for readability).

Transcript of video:


Source: http://www.gamereactor.se/nyheter/43021/GRTV:+Darksiders+II-intervju/

I have to head out for a while, but I'll be back later in the day.
Click to expand...
Why are you avoiding highlighting the part about the limitations of Nintendo's progress about the finalized hardware, just because their devkits show power about par with current, does not mean it is equal to this generation, and to not think the finalized hardware can't be more streamlined and powerful?
 
J

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
distantmantra said:
That's the thing. It's one thing to tell your kids that he's like the boogie man. But it's even scarier to know that he's real and could be sitting outside your house. right. now.
Click to expand...
Outside?

Drinky is inside your house, right now. He's eating your cereal.
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
It wouldn't bother me if it was on par or slightly better than a 360, which is what I've been anticipating all along. Based on all the evidence and hearsay. The current gen is more than capable of producing great visuals, features and integration so I'd be happy to see that in a Nintendo console.

I just hope it's priced accordingly.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
Medalion said:
Why are you avoiding highlighting the part about the limitations of Nintendo's progress about the finalized hardware, just because their devkits show power about par with current, does not mean it is equal to this generation, and to not think the finalized hardware can't be more streamlined and powerful?
Click to expand...
How likely is it that the final retail hardware will be very different in terms of power? Honest question. The WiiU is probably about 6 months away from release date, and this interview is done recently. Is it likely that the developers are still on very old WiiU hardware?
 
E

Epcott

Member
lwilliams3 said:
Thank you for posting your thoughts, Arkam, and I agree. There was several major issues with porting multi-platform games down to the Wii from the 360/PS3 aside from raw power. Since the Wii U will have a more modern feature set and at least 1GB of RAM, it should not have the same issues with running current/future game engines as the Wii.
Click to expand...

Very true... also, hopefully a better online structure comparable to Live and PSN and openness to DLC helps them bring in many ports as well.
 
B

bridegur

Member
If it's at least capable of achieving stuff that looks as good as the best-looking games on the PS3 and isn't over $350, I won't be thrilled, but I'll be satisfied.
 
K

Krowley

Member
The Mana Legend said:
I honestly do not care as long as the damn thing is in HD. Nintendo knows how to make amazing looking games with shitty hardware, so I'm not worried at all about the graphical capabilities of the thing.

I just want that goddamn HD, which is now finally here.
Click to expand...

This is kinda where I am at this point. It's going to be an HD console so the games will look pretty damn good. From here forward, games on all consoles are going to look "good enough" in my book..

TBH, I'm not really a graphics person anyway, and I even felt that way about the wii, so for the Wii-U it's even more true.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
ITT:
people who weren't there or love to forget the whole "Xbox 1.5!!!!11! Perfect Dark GUN PG3 fake HD wallguy" ordeal and the "PS3 the only True HD!!11! 1080p DUAL hdmi output spiderman 2 ducks ducks ducks sharing assets with ILM/Digital Domain/Sony Imageworks". How that worked out for you guys?

Oh boy you people are going to be disappointed.
WiiU is going to be more powerful than current gen, we already know that much. Will it show in launch games? Nope. Will it ever be a gen leap or vastly more powerful? Nope. Will that more power ever be take advantage of for anything than the tablet? We don't know, probably not. Does the ability to show different POW or such on the tablet mean the hardware is more powerful the X360/PS3? Absolutely. Will that make a different for potential Xbox Next/PS4 "fans"? Of course not. Like they don't care about the 3DS rendering its games two times for 3D.
Look how GT5/Uncharted3/Killzone3 perform in 3D. That requires a lot of power under the hood, but graphics whores only care about the end result and don't care about the added 3D. Different tastes for different targeted audiences.
 
S

SaintMadeOfPlaster

Member
Next week: Another developer makes a statement about being impressed with Wii U.

I feel like I'm watching a pendulum swing back and forth. Everybody calm down and wait until E3.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
All that really matters in the end is whether in 2-3 years 3rd party ports are A-relatively easy to achieve from a tech perspective and B-worthwhile from a publishers perspective. We have no answers to those questions and will not for a while.
 
S

Shion

Member
The Boat said:
While it's true that CPU/GPU could be there for more than pretty graphics... that's pretty much what it's used for. I don't see that many games boasting ideas and mechanics that wouldn't be feasible on old hardware, most advancements have been skin deep, not to mention that lots of great ideas and breakthroughs came from hardware limitations.
Click to expand...

The thing is that, in today's core gaming, graphics (and hardware in general) are very important as they clearly affect the dynamic of the experience.

When you run through the forests in Witcher 2 you really feel like you are IN the forest. The immersion is amazing. Travelling and exploring in such amazing environments is an absolutely incredible experience. The game would still be good without them, but the experience would never be quite the same. On the other hand, the forest in Skyward Sword is boring, there's no sense of atmosphere and immersion which, in the case of an Action/Adventure, can be a really bad thing.

Back in 2002, if Nintendo had offered just a beefed up N64 instead of the GameCube, a game like Metroid Prime would never be quite the same, amazing, experience that it was. It could still be a good game as far as gameplay goes, but the overall experience would never be the same.

Zelda and Metroid are two titles that need the hardware, it's a real shame to hold them back.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Shion said:
The thing is that, in today's core gaming, graphics (and hardware in general) are very important as they clearly affect the dynamic of the experience.

When you run through the forests in Witcher 2 you really feel like you are IN the forest. The immersion is amazing. Travelling and exploring in such amazing environments is an absolutely incredible experience. The game would still be good without them, but the experience would never be quite the same. On the other hand, the forest in Skyward Sword is boring, there's no sense of atmosphere and immersion which, in the case of an Action/Adventure, can be a really bad thing.

Back in 2002, if Nintendo had offered just a beefed up N64 instead of the GameCube, a game like Metroid Prime would never be quite the same, amazing, experience that it was. It could still be a good game as far as gameplay goes, but the overall experience would never be the same.

Zelda and Metroid are two titles that need the hardware, it's a real shame to hold them back.
Click to expand...
I must ask... how are either Zelda or Metroid being held back when releasing on the WiiU?

Using the stupid x metric both are going to be releasing on hardware anywhere from 15-20x more powerful than their last iterations. Minor leap over what we currently have now, huge leap for Nintendo games.

I just don't know what people were expecting. It's no question that the hardware is more powerful than what's out there. It is using hardware 5 years more advanced than the 360 and being tasked with an extra few million pixels to render on top of that.

It will only be considered "weak" if you expect the other two consoles to be a huge increase over it. I don't. More powerful? Of course. In no way applicable to this past gen, but still more powerful.
 
statham

statham

Member
Arkam said:
BINGO!

But I think the first concern only comes into play IF nintendo struggles to move units OR if MS/Sony comes with some cutting edge tech. If Nintendo moves enough units teh first year, they will be fine and get ports of all the gaming staples. They may miss out on a few games that push the other consoles, but it will not be like the Wii.
Click to expand...
thats exactly like this gen, every major 3rd party game tries to push the consoles, thus the slow-downs and 600p games.

and the wii boomed out of the gates and it was more powerful for the most part then the xbox/ps2
 
S

Shion

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
Using the stupid x metric both are going to be releasing on hardware anywhere from 15-20x more powerful than their last iterations. Minor leap over what we currently have now, huge leap for Nintendo games.
Click to expand...

Huge leap for Nintendo games doesn't mean much if the rest of the industry is in a whole different level.
 
O

onipex

Member
statham said:
thats exactly like this gen, every major 3rd party game tries to push the consoles, thus the slow-downs and 600p games.

and the wii boomed out of the gates and it was more powerful for the most part then the xbox/ps2
Click to expand...

The big difference for next gen is that eveyone has known for years that Nintendo is launching a new console. If Wii U has a strong launch I think developers/publishers will be in a better position to take advantage of it.
 
?

?oe?oe

Member
Even though Wii U is the strongest out of the current gen, you know third parties are lazy and will just use old assets ala Wii getting PS2 graphical games.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Shion said:
Huge leap for Nintendo games doesn't mean much if the rest of the industry is in a whole different level.
Click to expand...
As of now they aren't. At the end of this year Nintendo will be at least on par with the rest of the console industry for the first time in 6 years.

Next year and after? First we need to see what Sony and MS are bringing to the table before we can say any different.
 
G

Grymm

Banned
onipex said:
The big difference for next gen is that eveyone has known for years that Nintendo is launching a new console. If Wii U has a strong launch I think developers/publishers will be in a better position to take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure for the past 25 years now every time Nintendo has released a console developers knew they'd be launching another one within a few years after.

And we've seen how that turned out.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
I must ask... how are either Zelda or Metroid being held back when releasing on the WiiU?

Using the stupid x metric both are going to be releasing on hardware anywhere from 15-20x more powerful than their last iterations. Minor leap over what we currently have now, huge leap for Nintendo games.

I just don't know what people were expecting. It's no question that the hardware is more powerful than what's out there. It is using hardware 5 years more advanced than the 360 and being tasked with an extra few million pixels to render on top of that.

It will only be considered "weak" if you expect the other two consoles to be a huge increase over it. I don't. More powerful? Of course. In no way applicable to this past gen, but still more powerful.
Click to expand...
Good post. People are acting as if this isn't still a huge leap over Wii. Still disappointing, but way overblown. I still can't wait to play HD 1st party games, and I suspect that the graphics of the other consoles won't be that much better; obviously nowhere near the disparity of this gen.
 
SGRU

SGRU

Member
If Wii U is cheap and if it has HDMI, 1080p support, achievements and a proper on-line, I'm in.
I don't need Samaritan graphics for Nintendo games.
 
statham

statham

Member
iLoop said:
If Wii U is cheap and if it has HDMI, 1080p support, achievements and a proper on-line, I'm in.
I don't need Samaritan graphics for Nintendo games.
Click to expand...
I agree, but with samaritan graphics you also pick up all the 3rd party games. the ghost recons, RDR, COD,saints row..ect..ect.... to me that would be worth if nintendo put in another 100 dollars of tech and subsidized it by launching $50 bucks more but recoup with third party sales.
 
S

Shadow of the BEAST

Banned
Thunder Monkey said:
I must ask... how are either Zelda or Metroid being held back when releasing on the WiiU?

Using the stupid x metric both are going to be releasing on hardware anywhere from 15-20x more powerful than their last iterations. Minor leap over what we currently have now, huge leap for Nintendo games.

I just don't know what people were expecting. It's no question that the hardware is more powerful than what's out there. It is using hardware 5 years more advanced than the 360 and being tasked with an extra few million pixels to render on top of that.

It will only be considered "weak" if you expect the other two consoles to be a huge increase over it. I don't. More powerful? Of course. In no way applicable to this past gen, but still more
powerful.
Click to expand...

ofcourse shit like this only matters if you are not crazy batshit insane nintendo fanboy.
 
O

onipex

Member
Grymm said:
I'm pretty sure for the past 25 years now every time Nintendo has released a console developers knew they'd be launching another one within a few years after.

And we've seen how that turned out.
Click to expand...

I think Nintendo was more secretive about the Wii than any of their other consoles.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
schuelma said:
Bull. From the OP on this thread has been little more than thinly disguised Nintendo trolling and acceptance that "on par" means exactly that. I have seen very little reasonable discussion on how much more powerful Wii U is- 90% of the posts are from people making such insightful comments as "LOL Wii U is going to be last gen". You give this thread far too much credit.
Click to expand...

So, since apparently quite a few people want to call me out for trolling, I would personally interpret this to mean "in the general range of the current generation" than "literally the exact same parts as the Xbox 360."

Like, the Wii actually has a healthy gap over the original Xbox (a healthy amount of more RAM, more processing power, a better GPU), but most developers would consider it on par with last generation in terms of general power versus the current generation.

I like Nintendo's games and intend to buy one eventually. If people really want, I can try and find a camera to take a picture of my pretty healthily sized Wii game collection.
 
W

wandering goat

Member
statham said:
I agree, but with samaritan graphics you also pick up all the 3rd party games. the ghost recons, RDR, COD,saints row..ect..ect.... to me that would be worth if nintendo put in another 100 dollars of tech and subsidized it by launching $50 bucks more but recoup with third party sales.
Click to expand...

Exactly. While I never expected Wii U to be on a completely equal level to the other upcoming systems, I was hoping for it to be strong enough to be in on all the multi-platform titles that the 360 and PS3 had. Hopefully it can still be the case, even with lowered graphical options. I don't game enough to really warrant buying more than one or two systems (went with PC and Wii this gen), so having more titles be available would be nice.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Nirolak said:
So, since apparently quite a few people want to call me out for trolling, I would personally interpret this to mean "in the general range of the current generation" than "literally the exact same parts as the Xbox 360."

Like, the Wii actually has a healthy gap over the original Xbox (a healthy amount of more RAM, more processing power, a better GPU), but most developers would consider it on par with last generation in terms of general power versus the current generation.

I like Nintendo's games and intend to buy one eventually. If people really want, I can try and find a camera to take a picture of my pretty healthily sized Wii game collection.
Click to expand...

nah, you're one of the better posters around here, I don't know why anyone would suggest otherwise, even with the high tension GAF has regarding WiiU.
 
D

DefectiveReject

Banned
Nirolak said:
So, since apparently quite a few people want to call me out for trolling, I would personally interpret this to mean "in the general range of the current generation" than "literally the exact same parts as the Xbox 360."

Like, the Wii actually has a healthy gap over the original Xbox (a healthy amount of more RAM, more processing power, a better GPU), but most developers would consider it on par with last generation in terms of general power versus the current generation.

I like Nintendo's games and intend to buy one eventually. If people really want, I can try and find a camera to take a picture of my pretty healthily sized Wii game collection.
Click to expand...


I don't think there was a need for you to post the thread though...... it should have been kept in the speculation thread where it had been posted near on 12 hours earlier. And from the range of nonsense that followed in that thread, your posting of the thread can only be viewed as looking for heated debate. . . . I thought mods where here to douse fires, not ignite them???

All the above is in my own honest opinion of course
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
It's still possible that the Wii-U is significantly more powerful than current consoles. It just may not be convenient or possible to take advantage of Wii U's power advantage in terms of large, appreciable graphical upgrades, so it looks like they're going to use the tablet's features to add value to their port. Which makes sense, because going from 720p->1080p or 30fps->60fps requires several magnitudes of power superiority or some other type of trade-offs.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
DefectiveReject said:
I don't think there was a need for you to post the thread though...... it should have been kept in the speculation thread where it had been posted near on 12 hours earlier. And from the range of nonsense that followed in that thread, your posting of the thread can only be viewed as looking for heated debate. . . . I thought mods where here to douse fires, not ignite them???

All the above is in my own honest opinion of course
Click to expand...

I don't read the speculation thread, since it's a hundreds of pages long megathread.

Just like we have threads for rumors from major sources, this is a comment straight from a developer, so we have a new thread for it.

Just because some people don't like what someone is saying doesn't mean it gets shoved in a dusty corner. I'm sure many of the people complaining wouldn't be if he said it was five times as powerful and I posted that thread, which I would have if he said that as well.
 
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