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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

S

Sillverrr

Member
I am close to purchasing the 2017 LG OLED (55" B7 model). I am still using my Kuro PDP4280XD, as it's the only screen I've used without visible defects. I literally love this TV like a child by now. I've been through Sony, Samsung and Panasonic TV's in recent years, and they have all had nasty vertical banding, or other such issues. If I could guarantee that I could buy the LG, and it wouldn't have vertical banding, or some other blemish that my OCD can't handle, I'd do it in a heartbeat. 42" feels small these days :(
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
Rtings says you should put the input icon to game console and use game picture mode for lowest input lag. But changing the icon to game console shouldn't be necessary right?

And as for protecting the screen when I'm afk because I'm walking the dog for example, the Xbox screen dimmer should be enough for that, right? Don't want to put the TV in standby each time.
 
S

Shadowhelper

Banned
Hmmm I just got a 65 inch 4k LED, Samsung 2016 model. It's nice and PS Pro games look amazing on it. But I am considering returning it and either immediately getting or waiting for OLED prices to drop. I am afraid this is a fools errand though, and I might end up just waiting for ages, for no good reason. And my biggest concern of course is burn in, and just overall longevity.
 
Chipmungus

Chipmungus

Neo Member
I've had a 2015 LG OLED (EG9600 / EG960V) for just over a year. Purchased from John Lewis for £2500, about a week before the 6-series came out (E6 launched at £4000).
It's the ZD variant with HDR10 support. The display is used for PC gaming, occasionally console gaming, and as a PC monitor.

I ran it in "Game" mode, with the input label set to PC. OLED light at 50, Sharpness at 0, Color Temp at Warm2.
I use it for around 4 hours a night after work, often doing some overtime (programmer), or gaming, and usually end the evening with a movie or series.

Around October/November, I began to notice image retention even after having the TV off all day. Bloodborne's HUD elements, then desktop icons, even window outlines. This worsened through December, at which point all of my desktop icons, the entire Windows taskbar, and parts of my 50+ desktop wallpapers (which have always been on a short slideshow) were permanently burnt onto the screen.
I contacted John Lewis about this in January, who referred me to LG. They told me that image retention / burn-in was not covered under their warranty, that I had misused the television, and that permanent burn-in is not only possible on "literally any" display, but "impossible" on an OLED display (wat?)

John Lewis assured me they would handle the situation when the TV was out of its 12-month manufacturer warranty period. So I waited.

JL sent an engineer round, who confirmed the issue, and they have now replaced the panel.. except now it's worse. I'm running the display at 0% OLED Light, 80% Contrast, and getting severe image retention over the course of an evening; having the main Skype window up, for example, burns it onto the screen for the rest of the evening in as little as 5 minutes.
They sent the same engineer around again (a whole 3 weeks later) and they're insisting on going ahead with a second panel replacement this week. LG have now accepted responsibility for it, and launched this page:

http://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/oled-tv/reliability

After calling to confirm, they now cover burn-in under their manufacturer warranty. I'm fuming.

John Lewis have promised a "like-for-like" replacement on a television of equal value, should the problem resurface. What would you do?
 
J

Juice

Member
Chipmungus said:
I've had a 2015 LG OLED (EG9600 / EG960V) for just over a year. Purchased from John Lewis for £2500, about a week before the 6-series came out (E6 launched at £4000).
It's the ZD variant with HDR10 support. The display is used for PC gaming, occasionally console gaming, and as a PC monitor.

I ran it in "Game" mode, with the input label set to PC. OLED light at 50, Sharpness at 0, Color Temp at Warm2.
I use it for around 4 hours a night after work, often doing some overtime (programmer), or gaming, and usually end the evening with a movie or series.

Around October/November, I began to notice image retention even after having the TV off all day. Bloodborne's HUD elements, then desktop icons, even window outlines. This worsened through December, at which point all of my desktop icons, the entire Windows taskbar, and parts of my 50+ desktop wallpapers (which have always been on a short slideshow) were permanently burnt onto the screen.
I contacted John Lewis about this in January, who referred me to LG. They told me that image retention / burn-in was not covered under their warranty, that I had misused the television, and that permanent burn-in is not only possible on "literally any" display, but "impossible" on an OLED display (wat?)

John Lewis assured me they would handle the situation when the TV was out of its 12-month manufacturer warranty period. So I waited.

JL sent an engineer round, who confirmed the issue, and they have now replaced the panel.. except now it's worse. I'm running the display at 0% OLED Light, 80% Contrast, and getting severe image retention over the course of an evening; having the main Skype window up, for example, burns it onto the screen for the rest of the evening in as little as 5 minutes.
They sent the same engineer around again (a whole 3 weeks later) and they're insisting on going ahead with a second panel replacement this week. LG have now accepted responsibility for it, and launched this page:

http://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/oled-tv/reliability

After calling to confirm, they now cover burn-in under their manufacturer warranty. I'm fuming.

John Lewis have promised a "like-for-like" replacement on a television of equal value, should the problem resurface. What would you do?
Click to expand...

Sounds like your retailer is taking pretty phenomenal care of you. Most of us would be SOL. Let them replace it again
 
B

btkadams

Member
Getting really close to buying a 2017 OLED...

What exactly is the difference between the C7 and the B7? Best Buy is selling them both for $4499 CAD.
 
Y

Yappadappadu

Member
MosquitoSmasher said:
Rtings says you should put the input icon to game console and use game picture mode for lowest input lag. But changing the icon to game console shouldn't be necessary right?

And as for protecting the screen when I'm afk because I'm walking the dog for example, the Xbox screen dimmer should be enough for that, right? Don't want to put the TV in standby each time.
Click to expand...
Yes, activating game mode is enough.

As for dimming, that should be fine, but I would still put theTV in standby.

btkadams said:
Getting really close to buying a 2017 OLED...

What exactly is the difference between the C7 and the B7? Best Buy is selling them both for $4499 CAD.
Click to expand...
Only difference is the stand.
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
Yappadappadu said:
Yes, activating game mode is enough.

As for dimming, that should be fine, but I would still put theTV in standby.


Only difference is the stand.
Click to expand...

Noted. I'll make sure not to do that then.

Thanks man. And since the Youtube app doesn't show HDR, i decided to give it a chance with my Surface Pro, but still no luck. What i did was connected my Surface Pro (first model) to my TV and i played a 4K/HDR video on Youtube in Edge browser. But no HDR options appeared in my TV settings. I assume new HDR options should appear right?
 
S

Shadowhelper

Banned
Chipmungus said:
I've had a 2015 LG OLED (EG9600 / EG960V) for just over a year. Purchased from John Lewis for £2500, about a week before the 6-series came out (E6 launched at £4000).
It's the ZD variant with HDR10 support. The display is used for PC gaming, occasionally console gaming, and as a PC monitor.

I ran it in "Game" mode, with the input label set to PC. OLED light at 50, Sharpness at 0, Color Temp at Warm2.
I use it for around 4 hours a night after work, often doing some overtime (programmer), or gaming, and usually end the evening with a movie or series.

Around October/November, I began to notice image retention even after having the TV off all day. Bloodborne's HUD elements, then desktop icons, even window outlines. This worsened through December, at which point all of my desktop icons, the entire Windows taskbar, and parts of my 50+ desktop wallpapers (which have always been on a short slideshow) were permanently burnt onto the screen.
I contacted John Lewis about this in January, who referred me to LG. They told me that image retention / burn-in was not covered under their warranty, that I had misused the television, and that permanent burn-in is not only possible on "literally any" display, but "impossible" on an OLED display (wat?)

John Lewis assured me they would handle the situation when the TV was out of its 12-month manufacturer warranty period. So I waited.

JL sent an engineer round, who confirmed the issue, and they have now replaced the panel.. except now it's worse. I'm running the display at 0% OLED Light, 80% Contrast, and getting severe image retention over the course of an evening; having the main Skype window up, for example, burns it onto the screen for the rest of the evening in as little as 5 minutes.
They sent the same engineer around again (a whole 3 weeks later) and they're insisting on going ahead with a second panel replacement this week. LG have now accepted responsibility for it, and launched this page:

http://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/oled-tv/reliability

After calling to confirm, they now cover burn-in under their manufacturer warranty. I'm fuming.

John Lewis have promised a "like-for-like" replacement on a television of equal value, should the problem resurface. What would you do?
Click to expand...

Oh wow, John Lewis is helpful, but man this is my reason for staying away from OLED.

As amazing as it is, the simple fact is, if you plan on heavy useage I don't think it is appropriate. Image retention, burn in, bleeds and ink runs are all things that are almost guaranteed to happen after long hours.

With a phone or a tablet, I don't leave it as nearly as much as the tv that is used for work and games. I think its a matter of money. If you are rich enough to replace your TV without breaking a sweat over the price, OLED is the way to go. But if you want your TV to last and get the value out of your money, I'm afraid OLED isn't a great option.

And this is coming from someone who bought a $600 superAmoled tab just to read comics, due to how fucking amazing that screen is. As in love as I am with that screen, it can't last as a TV due to the heavy usage. I'm sure there are richer people who use their TVs far less than me, that OLED is an obvious no brainer.
 
Chipmungus

Chipmungus

Neo Member
Shadowhelper said:
Oh wow, John Lewis is helpful, but man this is my reason for staying away from OLED.

As amazing as it is, the simple fact is, if you plan on heavy useage I don't think it is appropriate. Image retention, burn in, bleeds and ink runs are all things that are almost guaranteed to happen after long hours.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and I'm not even sure 4hr/day can be classified as "heavy usage". This is the most expensive television I've ever bought, and none of the much cheaper LED, LCD or CRT televisions I owned previously ever exhibited any form of image retention whatsoever.
Hell, my 32" LG7000 ("Scarlet") LCD was probably on for upwards of 10 hours a day for about 4 years straight.
 
S

Shadowhelper

Banned
Chipmungus said:
Indeed, and I'm not even sure 4hr/day can be classified as "heavy usage". This is the most expensive television I've ever bought, and none of the much cheaper LED, LCD or CRT televisions I owned previously ever exhibited any form of image retention whatsoever.
Hell, my 32" LG7000 ("Scarlet") LCD was probably on for upwards of 10 hours a day for about 4 years straight.
Click to expand...

I've had a Galaxy phone that only lasted 2.5 years, before it had ink bleed. And a used Galaxy tab that had image retention. The person I got the used galaxy with image retention used a bunch of galaxies as menus at his restaurant and every single one of them had severe image retention within 1 year.

And I would be using my TV even more than these devices, since I work from home 2 days a week. I use my TV quite a bit, and I just don't want to constantly be paranoid about the icons form my computer being burned in. OLEDs are amazing but I don't have the cash to spend it on a TV, and even when its cheaper not sure I want a TV with such a short life.
 
G

Gorocketcat

Member
I used my E6 OLED pretty heavily for a year, and periodically left it running with a static image. Hours and hours at a time. No image retention to speak of. My old 2008 plasma "suffered" from temporary image retention. This is completely different.

Short life? Aren't these OLED tvs rated at like 30+ years of use @ 8 hours a day? that seems plenty damn long to me.

I love the picture. Second to none. It's not fragile tech.
 
L

Later Alligator

Member
Gorocketcat said:
I used my E6 OLED pretty heavily for a year, and periodically left it running with a static image. Hours and hours at a time. No image retention to speak of. My old 2008 plasma "suffered" from temporary image retention. This is completely different.

Short life? Aren't these OLED tvs rated at like 30+ years of use @ 8 hours a day? that seems plenty damn long to me.

I love the picture. Second to none. It's not fragile tech.
Click to expand...

i get temporary image retention on my c6 after a few mins, but not my e6 at all

not sure why as to my understanding, they use the same panels
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
Sillverrr said:
I am close to purchasing the 2017 LG OLED (55" B7 model). I am still using my Kuro PDP4280XD, as it's the only screen I've used without visible defects. I literally love this TV like a child by now.
Click to expand...

Yo we are 4280XD buddies, love mine like a child too and i'm not going to buy anything OLED wise until we can obtain the endurance and robustness of our set which is a thing that i have yet to see in modern sets (or any type of OLED panel whatsoever really)...
Almost 10 years strong though i think that it's getting really too old since lacks some neat functions that i want from a tv but again until the technology doesn't get good i'll probably have to revert to a good FALD LCD.
 
N

nogoodnamesleft

Banned
Theonik said:
Always worth mentioning. Besides. Not everyone has or even wants external audio solutions.
Click to expand...


When I was choosing my set the Z9 came second on my list.

Motion was exactly the issue when I saw it demoed to me. Also, RTINGS isn't too fond of the motion handling of the TV either

www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/z9d

Best LED though. But coming from a Kuro plasma, the fact that it reached sunlight brightness wasn't really a selling point to me.
 
N

nogoodnamesleft

Banned
LeleSocho said:
Yo we are 4280XD buddies, love mine like a child too and i'm not going to buy anything OLED wise until we can obtain the endurance and robustness of our set which is a thing that i have yet to see in modern sets (or any type of OLED panel whatsoever really)...
Almost 10 years strong though i think that it's getting really too old since lacks some neat functions that i want from a tv but again until the technology doesn't get good i'll probably have to revert to a good FALD LCD.
Click to expand...


Had the kuro elite since release date. Took me until two weeks ago to replace. Same way, loved like my baby. I would buy a pioneer elite OLED in a heartbeat.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Art Vandilay said:
True, but the other guy has a point. If you're dropping four grand on a TV then go ahead and buy a proper sound solution.
Click to expand...

I could see someone spending $4K and not having space for 5+ speakers but you'd think someone spending $4K would at least buy a decent sound bar if nothing else
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
I got HDR working. Downloaded a few videos from here and put them on a USB stick.

http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr

Great stuff. One thing though, is there a way to disable HDR while watching a video like that? I'd love to directly sweet between SDR and HDR to see how truly different it is. Is this possible though? I tried select a different picture mode but i can only select between HDR Vivid, bright and standard. Of which Bright so far is my favorite.
 
M

Metfanant

Member
Theonik said:
Always worth mentioning. Besides. Not everyone has or even wants external audio solutions.
Click to expand...

ill never understand the idea of going balls out on picture quality and limiting yourself to TV speakers...makes no sense...

BumRush said:
I could see someone spending $4K and not having space for 5+ speakers but you'd think someone spending $4K would at least buy a decent sound bar if nothing else
Click to expand...
a quality sound bar...or a kick ass stereo setup if you dont have space for surround...anyone who says their TV speakers are good enough is just plain missing out...
 
B

BradleyLove

Member
Art Vandilay said:
True, but the other guy has a point. If you're dropping four grand on a TV then go ahead and buy a proper sound solution.
Click to expand...

Theonik said:
Always worth mentioning. Besides. Not everyone has or even wants external audio solutions.
Click to expand...

BumRush said:
I could see someone spending $4K and not having space for 5+ speakers but you'd think someone spending $4K would at least buy a decent sound bar if nothing else
Click to expand...

Metfanant said:
ill never understand the idea of going balls out on picture quality and limiting yourself to TV speakers...makes no sense...


a quality sound bar...or a kick ass stereo setup if you dont have space for surround...anyone who says their TV speakers are good enough is just plain missing out...
Click to expand...
It's OK, I have a Yamaha A3010 paired with Kef T-series speakers. I'm good for sound. :)
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Fafalada said:
Does any TV on the market now support motion handling in "game" mode (or any low-latency mode really)? Having good motion-clarity is completely worthless to me when it comes with 10 frames of extra lag like on most TVs I've used or tested to date, but I haven't followed the market last 2+ years if that's changed.
Click to expand...
Backlight scanning/BFI do not introduce significant latency. Frame interpolation does of course. The two sets are identical in that respect due to having the exact same processor chip, the differences between them in motion are purely pros/cons of OLED and LCD panels.
 
S

Shadowhelper

Banned
Gorocketcat said:
I used my E6 OLED pretty heavily for a year, and periodically left it running with a static image. Hours and hours at a time. No image retention to speak of. My old 2008 plasma "suffered" from temporary image retention. This is completely different.

Short life? Aren't these OLED tvs rated at like 30+ years of use @ 8 hours a day? that seems plenty damn long to me.

I love the picture. Second to none. It's not fragile tech.
Click to expand...

LG do claim their 2017 OLED sets have improved tech and the OLEDs last longer. Their figure wasn't 30 years of 8 hours per day, that high at all, but it's pretty good. LCDs don't even last that long.

Everyone on avforums thinks it's pure marketing nonsense, though. They've made similar claims before that haven't turned out to be true. I think there is something about self emitting pixels where all of them are at risk of screen burn in. OLED has been around for a while now, and they have been trying to crack its issues for a while, and have failed.

It's pretty well accepted OLEDs just do not last as long as LCDs, I think it's not even really close. This suits the manufacturers to an extent because enthusiasts will always pay for it and not mind having to upgrade soon.

1 year isn't that long, and it doesn't seem like you had static images for very long even if you did use it for long. Pretty much every OLED screen with long term static image will suffer from image retention. It's basically inevitable if you use it the wrong way.

The way I use it, sadly I just don't think its smart to get it. I would love to, since the image is amazing, but I don't think mine would last long. I don't think you can use a computer on it as much I use it, as the icons would surely burn in. And obviously the vibrancy of the colors will fade on both LCD and OLED, but I believe its far more extreme with OLED.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Theonik said:
Backlight scanning/BFI do not introduce significant latency.
Click to expand...
That's how I'd expect it to work - but IME LGs haven't (at least in the past touching anything motion-related would destroy the latency) has this changed in recent models, or is it just Sony that is doing it right? The issue is reviews online never cite detailed breakdown on how latency behaves under different settings, so it's kind of hard to get reliable info on this without outright buying a set -_-
 
Chipmungus

Chipmungus

Neo Member
Juice said:
Sounds like your retailer is taking pretty phenomenal care of you. Most of us would be SOL. Let them replace it again
Click to expand...

DangerMouse said:
This. That sounds like fantastic service.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and I don't dispute that John Lewis have been really quite fantastic about the entire thing. The second repair is going ahead - but I fear this is a flaw with the electronics rather than the OLED panel itself. We'll see...
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
I was watching this video


https://youtu.be/H8c86HOBAD4


And at 9:34 he shows something that I don't seem to have. I do have "my channels" but not "my content" and I really like the idea of that and what he shows what the option does. Instead it says LG Content for me. How do I get this? Or is this perhaps not available in my country?
 
Y

Yappadappadu

Member
Fafalada said:
That's how I'd expect it to work - but IME LGs haven't (at least in the past touching anything motion-related would destroy the latency) has this changed in recent models, or is it just Sony that is doing it right? The issue is reviews online never cite detailed breakdown on how latency behaves under different settings, so it's kind of hard to get reliable info on this without outright buying a set -_-
Click to expand...
Don't know what reviews you're following but the well known one's like hdtvtest mention what enabling BFI does to the input lag.

Both the Sony OLED and Panasonic add abt. 8 ms to the input lag when enabling BFI, so 34 ms for the Panasonic (both 1080p and 2160p) and 38 ms for the Sony (2160p).
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/tx65ez1002b-201706134477.htm
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65a1-201706044471.htm
 
D

DangerMouse

Member
Chipmungus said:
Absolutely, and I don't dispute that John Lewis have been really quite fantastic about the entire thing. The second repair is going ahead - but I fear this is a flaw with the electronics rather than the OLED panel itself. We'll see...
Click to expand...

Yeah. Are they just replacing the panel and not looking at the electronics to make sure there's nothing wrong with that unit that developed after some time? Though I guess it's kind of unique if they said they'll offer a like-for-like in the case that even a second panel replacement doesn't fix it, as long as they are really reasonable about the "like".

Knock on wood, I've never had to use service or tech support but I hope Crutchfield is this good with their great rep since I've liked them a lot for the purchasing and price protection part on past purchases.
 
Stiler

Stiler

Member
Amneisac said:
I'm not sure what you mean by flashlighting, is that like edge bleed? I turned off fald and ran some edge light bleed tests and had one slightly light corner, but it really isn't that noticeable and definitely not while gaming. (Fald turns off for game mode, which is my only con so far).
Click to expand...

Flashlighting is when you see a light (usually at the corners) that goes across the screen some, like someone shining a flashlight, see:

http://screen-uniformity.wikia.com/wiki/Flashlighting_/_Spotlighting
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
PIRL0 said:
Hey.. can someone help me please.. i want to get a 4k hdr screen for gaming and torn between 2 affordable and available options for me

LG UH8500 : http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/uh8500

SONY X850D : http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850d

which one is the better option or neither are good and i should wait for OLEDs to become cheaper ??

Help would be appreciated
Click to expand...

Both of those are 2016 TV's, thus really hard to find, and both are OK tvs, though I'd do the Sony because motion and updates. If you need a TV right away, get a Sony 900E. OLEDs aren't coming down much further any time soon outside of oddball deals you may find.

Make sure to see if the tv is a 2016 or 2017 always. Example xJ, x.7 means 2017 LG. D means 2016, E means 2017 for Sony. KS/KU 2016 MU/Q 2017 Samsung.
 
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