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Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on

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I

Imperfected

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
my biggest pet peeve in EDH is people not running enough interaction especially the cheap kind, play krosan grip, play STP and Path, play nature's claim etc.
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I mean, I can understand not running cheap one-for-one removal. One-for-one removal is a bad deal in EDH and there's usually little reason to prioritize low mana cards. It's better to run multi-target removal, removal with upsides, etc. rather than stumping for the lower cost effects. The only reason to run cards like Path and Fatal Push is if you're playing with people who tend to combo out before Turn 4, and most people just don't play with those decks.

Like, be peeved with people for not running Undercity Plagues or Altars of Shadows or Avatars of Woe, and certainly be peeved that people aren't running Austere Command or Merciless Eviction, but don't seriously expect people to opt into Path unless you're primarily playing 1v1 or in a "competitive" (lol) EDH setting.
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
my biggest pet peeve in EDH is people not running enough interaction especially the cheap kind, play krosan grip, play STP and Path, play nature's claim etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah I build my Tasi to try and keep everyone in check. Players are willing to give me back a counter spell or removal with Tasi's activation to keep games even.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Zocano said:
Commander decks that play to win just seems against the point to me, also thanks for all the suggestions from a couple days ago.
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What do you mean?
Imperfected said:
I mean, I can understand not running cheap one-for-one removal. One-for-one removal is a bad deal in EDH and there's usually little reason to prioritize low mana cards. It's better to run multi-target removal, removal with upsides, etc. rather than stumping for the lower cost effects. The only reason to run cards like Path and Fatal Push is if you're playing with people who tend to combo out before Turn 4, and most people just don't play with those decks.

Like, be peeved with people for not running Undercity Plagues or Altars of Shadows or Avatars of Woe, and certainly be peeved that people aren't running Austere Command or Merciless Eviction, but don't seriously expect people to opt into Path unless you're primarily playing 1v1 or in a "competitive" (lol) EDH setting.
Click to expand...
I couldn't disagree more, trading 1 for 1 is perfectly fine if it stops a player from going off. Austere Command and Merciless Eviction are great but they are mega slow and don't allow you to do anything else, they are also sorcery speed. It's a stretch to call them disruption.

I agree with not playing push as the targets for that card vanish quickly unless you're playing competitive but 1 for 1 removal lets you develop your board while holding up removal. Even in lower powered games people will play haymakers you need to get rid of asap or you lose by the time it's your turn.

Heck I'm playing Path, STP, Chaos Warp and Sudden Shock in my Boros Ladies deck. I'm even trying out Lapse of Certainty.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
1-for-1 is terrible in 4 player. You're trading a card for:

1. Pissing off the player you 1-for-1.
2. No effect whatsoever on the other 2 players.

Path is especially stupid because you aren't even getting a 1-for-1, you're getting a 1-for-go-ahead-and-ramp-in-a-big-mana-format.

Targeted removal is also just sort of shit because everyone and their mother running a strategy reliant on a creature is going to have Lightning Greaves and/or Swiftfoot Boots.

There are a LOT of very good reasons EDH players value sweepers over targeted, 1-for-1 removal, especially considering all the board wipes that can be played cheaply and even preferentially when you've got the entire history of Magic to choose from. If you're in a playgroup where Wrath of God is "too slow" you're seriously just not playing EDH anymore.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
that's why you path in response to the equip ability which is much easier when your removal just costs 1 and also sidesteps indestructibility.
I really don't see how losing the game is particularly better than being down a card, something you can recover from.

Path has a significant downside though, you are right on that. Also do run wraths, though WoG ranks middling these days when it comes to wraths.
 
B

blindrocket

Member
Violet_0 said:
combo decks (bad combos in particular) are tolerable, I mean you can still stop it when you know the combo pieces and also happen to play blue. Stax is, like, oh no one at the table can remove Winter Orb, gg!
Click to expand...

I admit, I have a Daretti Stax deck that when it works, is utterly broken. But to be honest in a four player pod I've lost more times than won with that deck.

I don't break it out often though for obvious reasons.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Something unrelated to EDH. I really like how hearthstone gives their rotations names.

Last year was the Year of the Kraken and the current is the Year of the Mammoth, just gives it more of an identity than using the set acronyms in magic.

Zocano said:
I just mean for example combo decks that just tutor for their combo as fast as possible or hard control (in edh).
Click to expand...
ah sounded weird as I really dislike decks not build to win but that makes more sense.

Related to EDH real disappointed there are no foil versions of these lands as they are some of the most beautiful lands I've ever seen
arena2005.jpg
 
I

ironmang

Member
Was supposed to play in the RPTQ today but my cat decided she'd rather I stay in town panicking by running away sometime during the night. Took looking all day, talking to people in the neighborhood, putting up fliers, a few cans of fresh food as bait, and me preparing to stay up all night searching but thankfully as it was just starting to get dark I saw her strutting down the alley behind my house right towards me. Especially worried given that her previous owner had to give her up since she was being being bullied by the other cats to the point of being frighteningly skinny so I couldn't imagine how she'd fend against outside cats and other animals.

Anyways, now that I can think straight and have her sitting here beside me, I was planning on playing monored at the irl RPTQ and will likely stick to that for the online one in 1-2 weeks, whichever I decide to do. Even with the meta better prepared for Hazoret and company I still think it's the best deck that has no bad matchups. Briefly thought about playing BG but after testing that deck just feels so mediocre to me and kind of the worst tier 1 deck like it was when Mardu Vehicles and 4 color combo were popular/legal.

Also here's Rosie, my best friend and sometimes pain in my ass:
VJVoX4x.jpg
 
H

hermit7

Member
Imperfected said:
1-for-1 is terrible in 4 player. You're trading a card for:

1. Pissing off the player you 1-for-1.
2. No effect whatsoever on the other 2 players.

Path is especially stupid because you aren't even getting a 1-for-1, you're getting a 1-for-go-ahead-and-ramp-in-a-big-mana-format.

Targeted removal is also just sort of shit because everyone and their mother running a strategy reliant on a creature is going to have Lightning Greaves and/or Swiftfoot Boots.

There are a LOT of very good reasons EDH players value sweepers over targeted, 1-for-1 removal, especially considering all the board wipes that can be played cheaply and even preferentially when you've got the entire history of Magic to choose from. If you're in a playgroup where Wrath of God is "too slow" you're seriously just not playing EDH anymore.
Click to expand...

I think there are some pros and cons to 1-1 removal. I think that it is fair to say that path and swords or those cards are actual disadvantage, but they tend to be the most efficient answers. That's why decks are usually running things like natures claim, and the like. Flexibility is key. It is also important to run those types of cards to hit specific cards that effect the strategy your going for. In my mono black reanimator I run targeted exile for graveyard hate like Rest In Peace because it completely neuters the deck and it is more efficient than other options.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
hermit7 said:
I think there are some pros and cons to 1-1 removal. I think that it is fair to say that path and swords or those cards are actual disadvantage, but they tend to be the most efficient answers. That's why decks are usually running things like natures claim, and the like. Flexibility is key. It is also important to run those types of cards to hit specific cards that effect the strategy your going for. In my mono black reanimator I run targeted exile for graveyard hate like Rest In Peace because it completely neuters the deck and it is more efficient than other options.
Click to expand...

I mean, removal with upsides or special-case removal (of which there's tons of both you can run in EDH) is pretty different, and obviously the math changes a lot if you're running a deck that gains benefits from instants or routinely gains flashback, etc.

The main answer to "Why don't people play this list of really good Modern cards in EDH?" really is as simple as "Those cards aren't as good in EDH", though.

Like, a good rule of thumb for EDH is that if something would make you nut yourself on the spot if you saw it in Limited (Lightning Bolt, Goblin Guide, Doomblade, etc.) it's probably hot garbage in EDH unless you've got some sort of interesting combo or build-around effects going on, with a few obvious exceptions (sweepers, big dumb critters, etc.).
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
I definitely play very casually in terms of deck power lever, but in EDH I have always valued a few lost cost single-target spells to deal with troublesome cards. I semi-try to cover all permanent types, if possible. You may "anger" someone, but it can also win you some allies.

I would probably always run Swords or Krosan Grip, if I could, for example.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
I might try something like this, get the cards and then do something with that card pool and see what works. Figured that throwing in lots of cantrips would be the easiest way to filter your deck, because lolblue
0000hgdsxioh0.jpg
Click to expand...

Isochron Scepter and Mimic Vat should be in, like, every deck

BU has no good way to deal with resolved enchantsments and artifacts but bounce and artifact-based wraths, eh?
blindrocket said:
I admit, I have a Daretti Stax deck that when it works, is utterly broken. But to be honest in a four player pod I've lost more times than won with that deck.

I don't break it out often though for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
do I assume correctly that in a 4-player game, everyone targets you? :p
 
T

Tunoku

Member
ironmang said:
Was supposed to play in the RPTQ today but my cat decided she'd rather I stay in town panicking by running away sometime during the night. Took looking all day, talking to people in the neighborhood, putting up fliers, a few cans of fresh food as bait, and me preparing to stay up all night searching but thankfully as it was just starting to get dark I saw her strutting down the alley behind my house right towards me. Especially worried given that her previous owner had to give her up since she was being being bullied by the other cats to the point of being frighteningly skinny so I couldn't imagine how she'd fend against outside cats and other animals.

Anyways, now that I can think straight and have her sitting here beside me, I was planning on playing monored at the irl RPTQ and will likely stick to that for the online one in 1-2 weeks, whichever I decide to do. Even with the meta better prepared for Hazoret and company I still think it's the best deck that has no bad matchups. Briefly thought about playing BG but after testing that deck just feels so mediocre to me and kind of the worst tier 1 deck like it was when Mardu Vehicles and 4 color combo were popular/legal.

Also here's Rosie, my best friend and sometimes pain in my ass:
VJVoX4x.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm glad that Rosie is fine, she's adorable!

On the matter of Red, could you share your experience with various builds and which one you prefer right now? I'm considering playing either that or Temur Energy at the next Standard GP in Europe and I haven't had any time to test with RDW. I really like the look of the list Oliver Tiu won his MOCS qualifier with: https://twitter.com/thetiutangclan/status/896101113778159616
 
R

Recall

Member
Good afternoon all. I've been lurking for a while but was wondering if there is a MTGO clan for Gaf?

I have a decent set of cards online but I've not played in eons and wanted to possibly play with others be it modern, pauper etc. Just downloaded the latest client today and would love to play with others. Cheers.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
I feel like most EDH decks should have ways to win "on-the-spot," whether that's an infinite combo or some sort of Craterhoof effect or whatever. You don't want your game of EDH to be over in 5 minutes, but when you start working on the second hour the game has long since worn out its welcome.
 
B

Bandini

Member
Recall said:
Good afternoon all. I've been lurking for a while but was wondering if there is a MTGO clan for Gaf?

I have a decent set of cards online but I've not played in eons and wanted to possibly play with others be it modern, pauper etc. Just downloaded the latest client today and would love to play with others. Cheers.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a clan but feel free to add me as a friend, name is Bandini. I pretty much just play Modern and Cube but I'm down to play some matches
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
that's why you path in response to the equip ability which is much easier when your removal just costs 1 and also sidesteps indestructibility.
I really don't see how losing the game is particularly better than being down a card, something you can recover from.

Path has a significant downside though, you are right on that. Also do run wraths, though WoG ranks middling these days when it comes to wraths.
Click to expand...

Yep, you're hitting on one of the major blindspots for many EDH players. Too focused on value at the expense of not being able to answer things. You just play the 1-for-1 stuff to deal with the biggest threats rather than acting like you're a control deck.

divisionbyzorro said:
I feel like most EDH decks should have ways to win "on-the-spot," whether that's an infinite combo or some sort of Craterhoof effect or whatever. You don't want your game of EDH to be over in 5 minutes, but when you start working on the second hour the game has long since worn out its welcome.
Click to expand...

The obvious solution is to have everyone play super competitive Storm, Doomsday, The Gitrog Monster, and stax decks so that individual turns can take 15 minutes!

More seriously, yeah, this can certainly be a problem with the format and it's not even always related to lower power decks since higher power metagames tend to run a lot more cheap interaction/hate. My groups tend to be very very high power and even then games often run 30-60 minutes if not much longer (I believe my record long game is about 3 hours but that was with 3 staxy decks although with Gitrog, and it started around 1 in the morning so we weren't exactly at our cognitive best).
 
T

ThLunarian

Member
Violet_0 said:
BU has no good way to deal with resolved enchantsments and artifacts but bounce and artifact-based wraths, eh?
Click to expand...

You could steal them for yourself. Steal Artifact, Steal Enchantment, Confiscate, Take Possession, and others.

Doesn't really help for cards that have annoying global effects, but it's something.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
so basically, you beg the green player to do something about the white player, because Humility is goddamn annoying

the stealing permanents spells are not that bad of an idea, though that seems a bit too situational
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
when in doubt just cyclonic rift and win.

there's even a 2 mana search your library for target cyclonic rift sorcery.
Click to expand...

Muddle the Mixture? I like that one, useful on it's own and you can search for 2cX cards
seeing how Cyclonic Rift is in every blue deck, I should make room for that as well

btw, is Faerie Artisans as good as I think it is? Getting all the ETB triggers seems pretty neat
 
J

jakonovski

Member
I just completely wasted my money by buying Amonkhet and HoD fat packs, but boy it's a good feeling opening some packs after all these years. Nothing beats new card smell. I'm hooked again so FNM draft here I come.
 
J

Justin

Member
jakonovski said:
I just completely wasted my money by buying Amonkhet and HoD fat packs, but boy it's a good feeling opening some packs after all these years. Nothing beats new card smell. I'm hooked again so FNM draft here I come.
Click to expand...

I have done 2 HOU paper drafts a week since Hour was released and the format is so much fun. With all the fixing and the fact it slowed down so much over triple Amonkhet, you can pretty much pick the best card in each pack and easily run 3 colors and sometimes 4.
 
R

rexor0717

Member
So cube people, any cards your considering from the commander set? I'm looking at the Vengeful Lich, but that's about it. I kinda have a zombie subtheme, so I think I can support it.
 
R

red13th

Member
Maybe Fractured Identity. Nothing was exciting really since tribal generally doesn't work well in cube that aren't tribal focused. I'll grab a few frontier-frame updates like Go for the Throat and Qasali Pridemage too I guess.
 
R

rexor0717

Member
red13th said:
Maybe Fractured Identity. Nothing was exciting really since tribal generally doesn't work well in cube that aren't tribal focused. I'll grab a few frontier-frame updates like Go for the Throat and Qasali Pridemage too I guess.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, forgot about that one. Seems pretty strong, especially since it hits all nonland permanents. When at first glance, I thought it was just creatures.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
rexor0717 said:
So cube people, any cards your considering from the commander set? I'm looking at the Vengeful Lich, but that's about it. I kinda have a zombie subtheme, so I think I can support it.
Click to expand...

Kess, Dissident Mage might work if the cube has enough good spells and can reasonably support at least splashing a third colour.
 
R

red13th

Member
rexor0717 said:
Ah yeah, forgot about that one. Seems pretty strong, especially since it hits all nonland permanents. When at first glance, I thought it was just creatures.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a Confiscate for non-lands that triggers ETB and can't be killed by enchantment removal. Seems decent.
 
J

Justin

Member
Hero said:
165 for the SDCC set seems really pricey. Chandra and Bolas are the only 'good' PWs in that one, right?
Click to expand...

I was going to say that you could get playsets of all of them for around the same price but 4 Chandra's on their own is $170 currently
 
R

Recall

Member
Made myself a fun little G/R Warrior modern deck using the cards I have available and managed to get a few wins. Not played in close to 3 years so it's been a nice refresher :)

I don't know where the setting is on MTGO to show what certain keywords mean, I had forgotten what tribute was :/
 
F

Farside

Unconfirmed Member
Hey, all. I'm looking to start playing this game and was wondering which starter deck to get. Amazon has tons. The OP is a bit vague in this regard :) -- just to buy a Deck Builder Box. Thanks!
 
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