Xilium
Member
I actually liked Reckoning's combat system. It got pretty repetitive but it was a generally fun system that didn't take itself too seriously. I just kept switching up my weapon/class to keep it interesting.
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Bioware wants your feedback on gameplay to make Dragon Age Inquisition fun
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I actually liked Reckoning's combat system. It got pretty repetitive but it was a generally fun system that didn't take itself too seriously. I just kept switching up my weapon/class to keep it interesting.
Chivalry is pretty enjoyable, if a bit limited. Though I don't know if thats really just my glee in decapitations and gore.
I think you're equating that immediate feedback loops make for good combat. That combat needs to be more action to be good. I look at WRPG combat like I look at board games or RTSes or turn based strategy games. It's more thinking than it is reflexes, or that's what I want.
Setting traps, triggering a fight then pulling a large selection of monsters into a narrow field, so they get blown to smithereens due to my planning ahead > 100 hit combos. Temple of Elemental Evil > Devil May Cry. For me. The more pausing and planning I do, the more rewarding I find the end results.
Comfort Jones
Banned
A good rpg really shouldn't have gear that is always 100% of the time just a straight upgrade. When you do find some gear that's straight up better, it's not exactly hard to just look at the freakin' stats.
So yeah don't play an rpg if you don't want to play along with rpg mechanics.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Take everything about dragon age 2 ,and do the exact opposite of those things.
You're welcome bioware.
You're welcome bioware.
I gave a semi-detailed though only took about a minute writing it part for the end. I tried to be fair but realistic. Obviously they aren't going to do some hardcore, pause and play focused, high character customization CRPG, but if they can at least make 'hard' difficulty require pause and play a fair amount, and make you actually plan out your fighting in those instances, as well as making isometric 100% viable (in terms of controls, button mappings, interface, etc) then I am happy to compromise somewhat.
but yeah basically 'make it like DA: O'.
Oh yeah, the hilarious thing (hilarious for myself), I loved DA: O and obviously played it longer ago than DA2, I played each game at launch, for about 2 weeks to beat it. I didn't remember ANY of the names from the DA2 party list except for Fenris and Anders, yet I vividly remember several things about each character in DA: O.
but yeah basically 'make it like DA: O'.
Oh yeah, the hilarious thing (hilarious for myself), I loved DA: O and obviously played it longer ago than DA2, I played each game at launch, for about 2 weeks to beat it. I didn't remember ANY of the names from the DA2 party list except for Fenris and Anders, yet I vividly remember several things about each character in DA: O.
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
Punchy4486
Banned
They aren't. Theyre just looking for how to spin the design decisions they've already made.
AstroZombie
Banned
I want a deep turn-based combat system like the one in ToEE. Can you give me that, Bioware?
lol, basically this.
Mechanized
Member
Turn based jrpg combat from the 90s. Nobody would expect it.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Step 1- Take everything you did in DA 2 and throw it out.
Step 2. Decide Tactical wrpg or Crazy Action Rpg, or Demons Souls
Step 3 Action- Play Kingdom Hearts, Kingdoms of Amalur and God of War Ascension Multiplayer to study how base attack combos and Cooldown/MP managed abilities interplay with each other.
Step 3 Tactical- Go play your Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games to study Tactical rpg combat.
Step 4. if all else fails. Demons Souls
Step 2. Decide Tactical wrpg or Crazy Action Rpg, or Demons Souls
Step 3 Action- Play Kingdom Hearts, Kingdoms of Amalur and God of War Ascension Multiplayer to study how base attack combos and Cooldown/MP managed abilities interplay with each other.
Step 3 Tactical- Go play your Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games to study Tactical rpg combat.
Step 4. if all else fails. Demons Souls
Prax
Member
Well, I just told them I liked inter-character relationship stuff. xD
But I clarified it to mean growing relationships and rivalries depending on decisions made in the game. And not necessarily with the main character either. If you're going to have a party, you should work more with the group dynamics and interpersonal relationship kind of stuff.
Also, I'm fine with every party member being bisexual if they limit the amount of members available to 4-6 (with two of them probably being unromanceable for the main chartacter anyway). If they have more party members, I guess it'd be okay to have some of them being strictly straight or strictly gay too. Whatever it takes to maximize the amount of choice for the player but also maintain some kind of character integrity and diversity.
But I clarified it to mean growing relationships and rivalries depending on decisions made in the game. And not necessarily with the main character either. If you're going to have a party, you should work more with the group dynamics and interpersonal relationship kind of stuff.
Also, I'm fine with every party member being bisexual if they limit the amount of members available to 4-6 (with two of them probably being unromanceable for the main chartacter anyway). If they have more party members, I guess it'd be okay to have some of them being strictly straight or strictly gay too. Whatever it takes to maximize the amount of choice for the player but also maintain some kind of character integrity and diversity.
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Everyone that fills out the survey needs to put :BRING BACK AUTO_PAUSE AND ALL OF ITS OPTIONS BACK FROM BALDUR"S GATE 2 in the last comment section.
The thing is though, that tactical combat is BioWare's heritage. The reason I don't like them trying the action RPG route is because it just isn't in BioWare's blood. They are an RPG house. DA2 and Mass Effect 2 exemplify this.
The same thing happens in a shitload of Japanese action RPGs from traditional JRPG developers. Kingdom Hearts has an okay system but it still can't touch the likes of say, Ninja Gaiden or something. Dragon's Dogma works because it was done by the director of Devil May Cry 3.
TetraGenesis
Member
Starbuck2907
Member
KOTOR has my favorite turn based combat ever... DA:O had enjoyable combat as well. DA2...not so much. That's what I told them.
If I want a hack and slash, I'll go buy one of those.
If I want a hack and slash, I'll go buy one of those.
Xilium
Member
I wasn't saying that Amalur was particularly good, just fun. Just like with your average JRPG, Amalur relies a lot on visual flair and over-the-top animations to make the combat flashier and more exciting and in my opinion, that makes an otherwise mediocre system more entertaining. WRPG combat tend to be so grounded in 'realism' that if the combat isn't good, there's nothing else to latch on to and make it fun.
I totally understand what makes a tactical or strategy game fun and I enjoy those games for that but most modern WRPGs aren't that (as I mentioned in a previous post, people always go back to WRPGs that were made 10+ years ago as their go-to good combat example).
I will also say that while micro managing every fight to that level of detail can be quite fun and rewarding, it can also become very tedious in a game where you're constantly fighting. In DA:O for instance, combat just became a chore in some of the longer dungeons, where I was just trying to get from one end of the map to the other. The fights weren't demanding from a tactical standpoint but I couldn't just face roll through them like I could with a more action-based system.
What I'm getting from this thread (and previous threads on this topic) is that people like old-school CRPG, isometric/tactical combat systems but those combat systems, by and large, no longer exist (I'm sure there are smaller indie-esque titles that still do that but mainstream WRPGs don't). Instead what we've got are first-person melee/magic (just plain horrid), first/third-person shooter, Diablo-esque isometric/action clickfests, and various takes on third-person melee/magic action. The Dragon Age series is pretty much the last of it's kind (party-based isometric/tactical) as far as mainstream games are concerned and it appears to be going the action route as well.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The problem (which I alluded to earlier and point out every time this change occurs) is that the exodus from abstract, turn-based combat to action-RPG isn't one of seeking quality or of having a good action background to build from (ala Dragon's Dogma). They just wanna flee thinking and tactics heavy abstraction in combat cuz they think people like Game Analyst speak for these huge, teeming masses who could only be counted on for sales with ARPG combat, even if its as sludgy, sloppy, and banal as DA2's was. Lo and behold like alot of Gen 7 Dogma, that has a shitty batting average. Skyrim yes, KoA no.
Cone of Cold.
Fireball.
I see dead people.
NoPiece
Member
I was going to say that demanding controller support for a tactical RPG is like demanding mouse and keyboard support for Street Fighter IV. But as I was writing it I remembered I played through XCOM Enemy Unknown with a controller, and it worked great. So yes, just make proper tactical combat, then figure out controller support.
I would prefer good combat.
"HOW IMPORTANT IS GRITTY REALISM TO YOU?"
Not important
"HOW IMPORTANT IS ROMANCE TO YOU?"
Not important
"HOW IMPORTANT ARE GOOD CHARACTERS TO YOU?"
REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT I AM GLAD YOU ASKED BECAUSE YOU HAVE YET TO INCLUDE THEM
DA2 was really quite awful in this regard, moreso than any other. For my preferred party setup, I just listed Varric, because, seriously, everyone else sucked even more.
Give me either a really deep action combat system (like Dragon's Dogma, but better, and with more enemy feedback), or a really deep tactical combat system (like, I don't know, Dragon Age: Origins, which continues to surprise me on subsequent playthroughs) or figure out how to merge the two and let me do action stuff, pause, zoom out to tactical, move guys around, then jump right back into the action. Because that would be magical.
Not important
"HOW IMPORTANT IS ROMANCE TO YOU?"
Not important
"HOW IMPORTANT ARE GOOD CHARACTERS TO YOU?"
REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT I AM GLAD YOU ASKED BECAUSE YOU HAVE YET TO INCLUDE THEM
DA2 was really quite awful in this regard, moreso than any other. For my preferred party setup, I just listed Varric, because, seriously, everyone else sucked even more.
Give me either a really deep action combat system (like Dragon's Dogma, but better, and with more enemy feedback), or a really deep tactical combat system (like, I don't know, Dragon Age: Origins, which continues to surprise me on subsequent playthroughs) or figure out how to merge the two and let me do action stuff, pause, zoom out to tactical, move guys around, then jump right back into the action. Because that would be magical.
All you needed to say. Sadly, I don't think the Dragon Age team has it in them to write good characters.
This is still my favorite article on why Bioware is terrible at writing.
I love this bit particularly:
It's worth noting that Saints Row 4 uses Cid to make fun of Bioware's "four is an ideal number of objectives," as well as "my romance to you is predicated on your performing actions for me," and the fact that the game takes place largely on board a space ship, much like the Normandy. Saints Row 4 is great at that.
SF4 does support the keyboard. Since it's a game about precise inputs, if you can get used to it a keyboard is actually a solid control method. It's not different than that all button controller that was banned from some tournaments for being too good.
Loot and character progression is one of the most significant and enjoyable aspects of these "rpg" games, and sidelining that would severely put the enjoyment factor off balance. If they did include an "option" to somehow do this, people who bought it for the action would complain, and come next game, they'd start designing the game with this in mind.
And since action games already exist, why would you enforce your playstyle upon another genre that other people enjoy?
Some Nobody
Junior Member
That's why they call 'em, y'know, opinions.
This is again an opinion thing. It's one thing when I'm playing a T-RPG, but otherwise I think RPGs need to either stick to being turn-based, or suck it up and all become full on action games. I tried playing DA1 but quit very early on (two hours or so in) for two reasons: the shitty colors of the early part of the game that made the world appear dreary and dull, and a battle system that put me to sleep after beating Reckoning. I'm hoping Inquisition fixes both.
In fall fairness, I think Amalur's combat system was excellent considering its from a genre where the combat is typically garbage. And there was tons of room to fine-tune it as well, but we all know what happened there...
Sapphire Dreams
Member
With the exception of dialog parts, every member of your party was playable. Unless you want them to do something like a Liliana's Song with her.
Sentenza
Member
Bingo, there are a lot of flaws in DA: O that could be fixed without requiring the developer to switch genre entirely.
They have a disastrous class system (where characters tend to become more and more similar leveling up and "specializing", instead of becoming more different as they should), terrible encounter design and bestiary (starting with the glaring flaw of lack of unique, distinctive traits for enemies/monsters, which makes every fight essentially the same with different skins), poor loot distribution and bland and uninspired quest design for anything that isn't part of the main plot.
Those are things that should be fixed, not "MAKING IT A BUTTON MASHER SHOULD TOTALLY SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS WITH THE FRANCHISE!".
Well, yeah, thank you for stating the obvious.
Personally I would label both these statements as bullshit.
Red Mage
Member
Heck, if you wanted to be cheap, just go "Inferno/Blizzard" in a room you've not even opened yet. Wait about a minute, and when you kick open the door, everyone's dead.
LIES. Shale is an awesome character. Not only that, but she makes the other party members better by way of hilarious conversations.
Alistair: So, Shale... when you were standing there all that time? Did you... sleep?
Shale: I have no need to sleep. My body does not tire or do -- ugh -- other flesh-related functions.
Alistair: But don't you get bored? Wouldn't you want to dream, at least?
Shale: I do not dream. This is what it does when it sleeps? It paws its nose and mumbles incoherently.
Alistair: Yes, of course. I thought we all -- huh... you watch me?
Shale: I watch all closely when they are still at night. There is little else to do.
Alistair: For... hours and hours?
Shale: I count the breaths. it helps to overcome the overwhelming urge to crush their faces while they sleep.
Alistair: Well. I won't be doing much of that anymore.