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Clip from the Terminator 2 remaster.

S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Airola said:
To be fair though, I haven't been able to see them the way they meant to even back in 1992 watching it on VHS.

Back then I thought it was supposed to look as if the bullets didn't go through the body but sort of melted and stayed over that uniform :D
Click to expand...

Isn't that what it's meant to look like? Like it splashed the metal but didn't go through the body?
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
One of my favourite films as a kid, just amazing from start to finish.

The colour here looks a bit off, as if they went for a cool temperature rather than the warmer look you expect from films. No doubt encoding enthusiasts on the internet will try and "fix" this. Minor complaint though as the "detail upgrade" looks fantastic.
 
D

DavidDesu

Member
Have my tickets for the ONE showing is is getting at my local cinema, seems to be a one off screening day in the U.K., on the titular Judgement Day, 29th August. Which also happened to be my birthday which is one cool reason I have a soft spot for this awesome film.

Disappointed by that colour grading issue, I just don't get it cos it seems like quite a change of the colour tone of the movie. To me that stuff is pretty important and changing it now seems bizarre.

I honestly wonder does this have anything to do with ageing? Like don't our eyes perhaps change over time so when he's grading it now he's actually seeing something different than he did back then...? I think this particular tone that's so prevalent in modern films does subtly make them look more unnatural to me. T2 had a nice bold but believable colour tone, dunno why you'd remove that.
 
Paracelsus

Paracelsus

Member
I think one of the most iconic segments of all time, despite its simplicity, is this

https://youtu.be/WSL9YHfO91Y?t=83

It's like Cameron went to the composer and said "make me a bgm that completely blends with the moment and the shooting-reload interval"

BOOM *WHOOOM* RELOAD BOOM *WHOOM* RELOAD BOOM *WHOOM* RELOAD BOOM *SHWING* T1000 goes down

EDIT: Shame they didn't fix the T1000's 92F sounding like suppressor-like shit though.
 
Airola

Airola

Member
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Isn't that what it's meant to look like? Like it splashed the metal but didn't go through the body?
Click to expand...

Wait what, was it? :O

I thought it was supposed to be an effect to show how the bullets go in the body and there was supposed to be this look of T1000 having these holes in his body, and that I always saw them not going inside the body even an inch.

But were they really supposed to be like that from the get go? To look like nothing goes inside his body even a bit :O
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Airola said:
Wait what, was it? :O

I thought it was supposed to be an effect to show how the bullets go in the body and there was supposed to be this look of T1000 having these holes in his body, and that I always saw them not going inside the body even an inch.

But were they really supposed to be like that from the get go? To look like nothing goes inside his body even a bit :O
Click to expand...

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant "through" as piercing straight through and coming out in his back.

Yeah. Obviously they were meant to go into his body and create a... "cavity"(?).

I think they work. But at the same time, they do look like they just lie on top of him.
 
V

Vexidus

Member
Not sure what you guys are on about. It was always clear to me that the gunshots don't penetrate at all and the metal from them bunches up on the surface as if he was bulletproof.
 
S

Sojgat

Member
SuperBanana said:
What's with movies putting green tints on remasterings? Matrix, LotR, and now this. It makes it look worse. :
Click to expand...

So it looks modern and "pops" on a digital display. Also, film grain is often scrubbed out because people think it looks bad apparently. To my eye, it looks as unnatural as colourising a black and white movie.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
JB1981 said:
It does seem like they altered the color timing. Why do directors insist on doing this for "remasters"?
Click to expand...

Sometimes it's likely that it's closer to the original film than previous transfers. It's just that people have gotten used to heavy red pushed transfers that have been floating around since the DVD era
 
B

Blackpuppy

Member
Guys, you'd be surprised by how teal older movies were. Here are some pictures of a projected 8mm print:

t_2_8mm.jpg


In a thread on originaltrilogy.com a member went to see T2 on 35mm and said that there was a teal "blanket" and cyberdyne arm was purple.

That thread is here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Look-of-Terminator-2/id/17850/page/1
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
Sometimes it's likely that it's closer to the original film than previous transfers. It's just that people have gotten used to heavy red pushed transfers that have been floating around since the DVD era
Click to expand...

Making a transfer less hot, doesn't suddenly make it all modern teal-looking though. But who knows.

All I know is, James Cameron is famous for his use of blue – the suddenly the Aliens Bluray was teal.

I saw a n archived 35mm print of Aliens – and yes the colors can differ, and yes eyes get used to color – but its was more blue than teal.
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Blackpuppy said:
Guys, you'd be surprised by how teal older movies were. Here are some pictures of a projected 8mm print:

t_2_8mm.jpg


In a thread on originaltrilogy.com a member went to see T2 on 35mm and said that there was a teal "blanket" and cyberdyne arm was purple.

That thread is here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Look-of-Terminator-2/id/17850/page/1
Click to expand...

Color film fades unevenly and that changes the colors. The only prints that we can be sure have correct color are ones that have each color on a separate strip of black-and-white film.
Also, any 8mm print of a movie is going to be many generatons removed from the approved timing.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Making a transfer less hot, doesn't suddenly make it all modern teal-looking though. But who knows.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying that it might look off because people are so used to a transfer that had too much of a red push, not necessarily that the original movie had completely natural colors. There are movies older than T2 that had teal color grading to them.
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
B

Blackpuppy

Member
TAJ said:
Color film fades unevenly and that changes the colors. The only prints that we can be sure have correct color are ones that have each color on a separate strip of black-and-white film.
Also, any 8mm print of a movie is going to be many generatons removed from the approved timing.
Click to expand...

Read the whole terminator thread I linked to. Those people over on OT are obsessed with original theatrical color timings. There are two members who saw two different film prints and compare what they found.

Also in that thread are links to scans of Aliens on 35mm which look...closer to the BD version.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/773377
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
I'm just saying that it might look off because people are so used to a transfer that had too much of a red push, not necessarily that the original movie had completely natural colors. There are movies older than T2 that had teal color grading to them.
Click to expand...

Yes ofc.

Perheps it's a combination of removing the red and returning it to the original look and at the same time being stuck with a modern mindset about what looks good/cool.

Would be interested in seeing a clip with the blue night. How that looks.
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Blackpuppy said:
Read the whole terminator thread I linked to. Those people over on OT are obsessed with original theatrical color timings.

In that thread, there are links to scans of Aliens on 35mm which look...closer to the BD version.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/773377
Click to expand...

When i saw Aliens a few years back on 35mm, it wasn't that garish blue from the VHS-days but it also wasn't transformers-teal.

The same with The Terminator, with looked great on film in a way I never thought when watching it on VHS and DVD. Not a huge fan of bleedingly strong blues and reds and the theatrical print was nicely subdued.

At least how I remember it.
 
Airola

Airola

Member
Vexidus said:
Not sure what you guys are on about. It was always clear to me that the gunshots don't penetrate at all and the metal from them bunches up on the surface as if he was bulletproof.
Click to expand...

The thing with T1000 was that he wasn't bulletproof in that sense, but in a sense that he's liquid that makes things go inside him and through him without making any damage to him. I mean, that's what happens to him constantly in the final battle.

But that scene definitely has always looked as if nothing penetrates him at all. And I don't think that was the intention at all.
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Airola said:
The thing with T1000 was that he wasn't bulletproof in that sense, but in a sense that he's liquid that makes things go inside him and through him without making any damage to him. I mean, that's what happens to him constantly in the final battle.

But that scene definitely has always looked as if nothing penetrates him at all. And I don't think that was the intention at all.
Click to expand...

He's damaged in the last battle from being freezed and shot into pieces.

But, I don't understood – are you arguing that the bullets go through him and exits through his back?

My understanding is, that they hit him which causes the splash of metal. But that is all. The bullets doesn't go through his body.
 
Ban Puncher

Ban Puncher

Member
I was hoping they would have updated the T-1000 'closing the bullet holes' CGI part of the hallway scene up so it didn't look like fucking shit (aka of the era).


14pDVr1.gif
 
Airola

Airola

Member
Spiritual_Chaos said:
He's damaged in the last battle from being freezed and shot into pieces.

But, I don't understood – are you arguing that the bullets go through him and exits through his back?

My understanding is, that they hit him which causes the splash of metal. But that is all. The bullets doesn't go through his body.
Click to expand...

No, no "exit wounds", but just penetrates a bit making a "cavity" as you mentioned in earlier reply to me. That's what I think it was supposed to be. And to me it always just looked as if the bullets don't penetrate him even a bit, not even enough to make the smallest cavity.

I mean, it always looked to me just like how that special effect was made. The shape of the practical effect was supposed to make it look like there was a cavity going a bit inside his body. That's what I believe it was supposed to be look like, but to me it always just looked like stuff was on top of his body without anything going inside him.

EDIT:
And yes, the only ways to damage him was to either freeze him or melt him in lava.
And even then the freezing only made it possible to blow him in small pieces but as soon as things unfreeze he becomes whole again.
Anything apart from that only either does nothing or makes the liquid type of metal 'squish' a bit. It's like putting a warm knife into a butter but it does nothing to him.

ZA4njHv.jpg
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Airola said:
No, no "exit wounds", but just penetrates a bit making a "cavity" as you mentioned in earlier reply to me. That's what I think it was supposed to be. And to me it always just looked as if the bullets don't penetrate him even a bit, not even enough to make the smallest cavity.

I mean, it always looked to me just like how that special effect was made. The shape of the practical effect was supposed to make it look like there was a cavity going a bit inside his body. That's what I believe it was supposed to be look like, but to me it always just looked like stuff was on top of his body without anything going inside him.
Click to expand...

Back on track.

You are correct.
 
D

Dpp1978

Neo Member
TAJ said:
Color film fades unevenly and that changes the colors. The only prints that we can be sure have correct color are ones that have each color on a separate strip of black-and-white film.
Also, any 8mm print of a movie is going to be many generatons removed from the approved timing.
Click to expand...

But by 1991 film prints were on low fade stock. Eastman's low fade LPP stock came out in the very early 1980s and only improved from that point on. There should be very little fading on a theatrical T2 print. Or an 8mm reduction.

Separation masters are of course better colour references, assuming they were made with the finalised colour timing. Most, as far as I know, are copies of the negative: which will reflect the camera footage not the finalised film.

Spiritual_Chaos said:
Why would there be a 8mm print of a film from 1991?

First time I've hard about that.
Click to expand...

The high end home cinema market was very different then. When the best video you could get was laserdisc (which looks awful blown up) on huge CRT projectors, the real aficionados bought 8mm or 16mm prints. The true fanatics had, and still have, 35mm, or even 70mm, setups.

Now we can have 4K at home without breaking the bank. Times have changed.
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Wait, I have a question about this film that I've never gotten a good answer to.

In the beginning when the T-1000 arrives -- Why does he keep the look of Robert Patrick?

I would have figured the first cop he ran into would have looked like Patrick in that case, and he would simulate his look.

But he keeps his own "models(?)" design of Robert Patrick throughout the film. He just simulates the cops clothes for some reason... but not his look...
 
S

strafer

member
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Wait, I have a question about this film that I've never gotten a good answer to.

In the beginning when the T-1000 arrives -- Why does he keep the look of Robert Patrick?

I would have figured the first cop he ran into would have looked like Patrick in that case, and he would simulate his look.

But he keeps his own "models(?)" design of Robert Patrick throughout the film. He just simulates the cops clothes for some reason... but not his look...
Click to expand...

Perhaps that is a look he got before arriving in the movie and decided to keep it, Who knows where he's been.
 
S

supermarioworldE

Banned
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Wait, I have a question about this film that I've never gotten a good answer to.

In the beginning when the T-1000 arrives -- Why does he keep the look of Robert Patrick?

I would have figured the first cop he ran into would have looked like Patrick in that case, and he would simulate his look.

But he keeps his own "models(?)" design of Robert Patrick throughout the film. He just simulates the cops clothes for some reason... but not his look...
Click to expand...

In the first case, it was probably done not to give away who the villain was for first time viewers. Likely the same reason why we dont see the T-1000 shedding its organic skin used for time travel.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
DavidDesu said:
Have my tickets for the ONE showing is is getting at my local cinema, seems to be a one off screening day in the U.K., on the titular Judgement Day, 29th August. Which also happened to be my birthday which is one cool reason I have a soft spot for this awesome film.

Disappointed by that colour grading issue, I just don't get it cos it seems like quite a change of the colour tone of the movie. To me that stuff is pretty important and changing it now seems bizarre.

I honestly wonder does this have anything to do with ageing? Like don't our eyes perhaps change over time so when he's grading it now he's actually seeing something different than he did back then...? I think this particular tone that's so prevalent in modern films does subtly make them look more unnatural to me. T2 had a nice bold but believable colour tone, dunno why you'd remove that.
Click to expand...

Hmm. 7:30pm in Staines is my closest. Late finish but tempted..

This coming out as a 4K bluray?
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
This whole 35mm etc stuff is fascinating, I had no idea things were so sought after.

What a fascinating world to look into.

Where do you even look to obtain such things like versions of the film that resemble the initial theatrical release in terms of colour and such?

Also is there anything to read about this kind of stuff? The process for old films being played in cinemas etc?
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Looks like you're trying your hardest not to understand what he meant with his comment.
Click to expand...

Looks like you came late to a conversation that'd already sorted itself out amiably without your help, thanks.

Scavenger said:
Nope, Jaws is not really a good example because of all the degraining. There are even some motion artifacts caused by DNR.
Click to expand...

I dunno, if there are artifacts, I didn't catch em. But I'm not (and never have been) the greatest at catching those. Haloing & banding are the two that jump out at me the easiest, but stuff like black crush and specifically blocking/artifacting if brief enough (and if I'm sitting close enough to the projector screen) can get by me in some cases.

Jaws looks fucking phenomenal on blu-ray, to me, and more importantly, fit for the comparison regarding "modernity" I was trying to make.

I know there are transfers that could have made a similar point (I also really like the way North by Northwest looks on blu, for example) but Jaws was the one that jumped to mind.

edit: Nice, DPP is in here!

edit edit: Of course the OriginalTrilogy mad scientists are trying to fix this. those guys are crazy in the best ways
 
H

HiiiLife

Member
Idk why but the sound of him stepping on the rose always made me wince lol. I haven't seen this since the late 90s, maybe 2000 and I had to once again brace myself for that part while watching the clip.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
It really is amazing what a double-edged sword the 1997 Star Wars Special Editions have been with audiences.

People can't really stand that they existed (and made way for the continually unnamed changes that kept happening for the next 20 years) but they also can't help themselves from thinking their methodology could work on some other film they hold in similar nostalgic esteem.

(I do wonder if the prevalence and constant financial rewarding of the Video Game Remaster is helping add to this as well. Seeing a post upthread suggesting Cameron "Drop a bgm" into the mix suggests that approach, which makes sense)

Ultimately it seems like a very specific sort of unnecessary balm for viewers who would only spot the mistakes (or at least concern themselves with them to the point they're suggesting spending a couple mil to fix em) after having already rewatched the thing north of 5 or 6 times.
 
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