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Firemind
Member
(09-17-2015, 02:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by SmartWaffles

A lot of slow time for crowd control, teleport around and see meteor wrecking stuff, all you need for it to work are 8 set pieces and a RoRG, the rest are refinements, it doesn't need any specific weapon to work although an Aether Walker is essential for its full power.

For additional pieces you want:
Crown of the Primus for additional Slow Time power
Strongarm Bracers/Ancient Parthan Defenders for additional damage/survival
Nilfur's Boast for meteor damage
Focus+Restrait for obvious reasons but Convention of Elements+Unity/Halo of Alyse is a strong candidate.
For weapons you have tons of choices, Aether Walker, Serpent Sparkler, Thunderfury, whatever you got is good, also a cubed The Furnance is the best to have.

But none of the additional pieces are required for Delrasha so you can build it up very quickly and work from there without having to play on lower difficulties because you don't have the power. I started to work nicely in T7 and GR35 before I have any 6pc set because 4pc DMO and 4pc Tal alone are already powerful enough to wreck T6.

Wow, I thought Aether Walker was just a speedfarming tool. Nice to hear it can be BiS. Thanks for the detailed response.
SmartWaffles
Member
(09-17-2015, 03:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Firemind

Wow, I thought Aether Walker was just a speedfarming tool. Nice to hear it can be BiS. Thanks for the detailed response.

Crowd control, mobility, constantly procing Tal'rasha arcane meteors, plus Delrasha doesn't rely on AP spenders so you have a lot of AP to spam teleport.
Raticus79
Seek victory, not fairness
(09-17-2015, 04:07 PM)
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For people making zDPS exp boost characters for carrier-friendly leeching purposes, I just read that you can use both the low level and level 70 version of the Cain's set for another 30% exp. (There are 4 pieces and you only need 2 of each with RoRG)
joesmokey
Member
(09-17-2015, 05:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Firemind

What's Del Rasha's play style? Make a bunch of Slow Times, then shoot things inside? Does it use Serpent Sparker by any chance?

Originally Posted by SmartWaffles

A lot of slow time for crowd control, teleport around and see meteor wrecking stuff, all you need for it to work are 8 set pieces and a RoRG, the rest are refinements, it doesn't need any specific weapon to work although an Aether Walker is essential for its full power.

For additional pieces you want:
Crown of the Primus for additional Slow Time power
Strongarm Bracers/Ancient Parthan Defenders for additional damage/survival
Nilfur's Boast for meteor damage
Focus+Restrait for obvious reasons but Convention of Elements+Unity/Halo of Alyse is a strong candidate.
For weapons you have tons of choices, Aether Walker, Serpent Sparkler, Thunderfury, whatever you got is good, also a cubed The Furnance is the best to have.

But none of the additional pieces are required for Delrasha so you can build it up very quickly and work from there without having to play on lower difficulties because you don't have the power. I started to work nicely in T7 and GR35 before I have any 6pc set because 4pc DMO and 4pc Tal alone are already powerful enough to wreck T6.

To add to this, high GR playstyles are to move as fast as possible and mostly focus on killing trash only. You don't wait around for trash to die, you rely on the bubbles killing them off-screen. If you're not constantly moving forward and gathering more mobs, you won't be able to clear the rift. Concentrating on killing a pack at a time doesn't work (unless it's huge density).

You drop bubbles and have them do most of the damage on the mobs. The other skills you use are to proc meteors or reset your cooldown on the slow time bubbles (4pc Delsere's bonus).

Weapons you ideally want an ancient Aether Walker as your main. This lets you cube The Furnace and focus a little more effort on elite packs. AW is generally a must as you use Teleport Calamity to stun mobs and proc the Arcane meteor type, so you always need this up. If you don't have an ancient Aether Walker, you're pretty much stuck using it cubed and then you have some options, such as Gesture of Orpheus for more Slow Time bubbles (since again, these deal most of your damage).


It's a lot of effort and takes a lot of gear to do GR55+. This is why everyone is generally moving to Vyr's this season. Ancient Chantodo's set seems easier to get than an ancient Aether Walker. Archon, while somewhat similar playstyle, is just easier to manage and does just as much (if not more) damage.

DelRasha seems superior for group play, though nobody wants wizards for groups anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.
Firemind
Member
(09-17-2015, 06:10 PM)
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Yeah I think I'll pass on Delrasha. Having to keep check of the internal cooldowns of the meteors and shuffling your skills is too mentally exhausting after a long day at work.

I read monks are best at farming DBs, but I think I'll make a DB farming wiz to change the pace.
hellmonkey
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(09-17-2015, 06:46 PM)
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Welp... Hit my grift wall last night. I tried 56 about 5 times. RNG was not on my side. Just constant lacuni prowlers, wraiths, wing assasins and other 1 shot garbage. I really don't think ill be able to finish the journey as a DH. I looked at the leader boards and only 316 DHs have cleared 60. There is very little room for improvement on my gear too. It didn't help that I was balls as tired and irritable.

WTB overpowered monk/barb set for my DH.
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 07:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by hellmonkey

Welp... Hit my grift wall last night. I tried 56 about 5 times. RNG was not on my side. Just constant lacuni prowlers, wraiths, wing assasins and other 1 shot garbage. I really don't think ill be able to finish the journey as a DH. I looked at the leader boards and only 316 DHs have cleared 60. There is very little room for improvement on my gear too. It didn't help that I was balls as tired and irritable.

WTB overpowered monk/barb set for my DH.

Just join my games and gear up a monk or wd with my shared drops lol

--

Damn looks like people are starting to push 70's w/ WD WD zdps Monk/Barb. Amazing.
Bisnic
Really Really Exciting Member!
(09-17-2015, 07:32 PM)
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What's the problem with wizards exactly? Low survivability? Seems like people don't like them, yet i crush T7 with my 6 set bonus of Talrasha and far from optimal stats. Elites don't last long at all.

Sure, it's not T10 or GR55+ yet, but is that where wizards start to lose compared to other classes?
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bisnic

What's the problem with wizards exactly? Low survivability? Seems like people don't like them, yet i crush T7 with my 6 set bonus of Talrasha and far from optimal stats. Elites don't last long at all.

Sure, it's not T10 or GR55+ yet, but is that where wizards start to lose compared to other classes?

In groups they don't have the DPS or survivability to bring anything to the table. Monks and Barbarians can just clear mobs quicker and without dying.
Baliis
Member
(09-17-2015, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bisnic

What's the problem with wizards exactly? Low survivability? Seems like people don't like them, yet i crush T7 with my 6 set bonus of Talrasha and far from optimal stats. Elites don't last long at all.

Sure, it's not T10 or GR55+ yet, but is that where wizards start to lose compared to other classes?

Every class can smash T10, its in the 50s where it really starts to be noticeable.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 07:42 PM)
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Aether Walker is actually such a mess of an item, sacrificing so much damage just to get a half-decent mobility spell.
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 07:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bisnic

What's the problem with wizards exactly? Low survivability? Seems like people don't like them, yet i crush T7 with my 6 set bonus of Talrasha and far from optimal stats. Elites don't last long at all.

Sure, it's not T10 or GR55+ yet, but is that where wizards start to lose compared to other classes?

T7 isn't shit man. You can smash T7 with only wearing 2pc set bonuses on other classes. Once you get to 50+ things start to get a lot more demanding.

Originally Posted by godelsmetric

In groups they don't have the DPS or survivability to bring anything to the table. Monks and Barbarians can just clear mobs quicker and without dying.

Their group buffs aren't there either and without survivability there is no zDPS option for providing XP leech
Sober
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(09-17-2015, 07:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by SmartWaffles

Crowd control, mobility, constantly procing Tal'rasha arcane meteors, plus Delrasha doesn't rely on AP spenders so you have a lot of AP to spam teleport.

Meteor Swarm IMO is a much better AP dump, but Calamity teleport on demand is probably the best part about having an AW. I've not seen many other DelRasha builds but I hear there's plenty of variation which is nice to hear about a build like this.
joesmokey
Member
(09-17-2015, 08:13 PM)
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It's a sad season when zdps barbs are more valuable to group composition than high dps wizards.
Addnan
Member
(09-17-2015, 08:16 PM)
Why? It's just like every other season, there needs to be supports and dps. It's barbs turn to pull and buff the team.
JoeMartin
(09-17-2015, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by joesmokey

It's a sad season when zdps barbs are more valuable to group composition than high dps wizards.

It's about efficiency. If a zdps barb (who is probably rocking in the region of 150-200% bonus xp gear) is netting you more XP/hr (via both xp gear and mob stacking enabling better EPs) than the added damage from a wizard is, then ofc people are going to use the barb.
SmartWaffles
Member
(09-17-2015, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sober

Meteor Swarm IMO is a much better AP dump, but Calamity teleport on demand is probably the best part about having an AW. I've not seen many other DelRasha builds but I hear there's plenty of variation which is nice to hear about a build like this.

Yeah that's like half the fun of Delrasha because it can be played in many different ways, sad thing is it is not as powerful, if you want to push high GRs wizard is the wrong class anyway.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Addnan

Why? It's just like every other season, there needs to be supports and dps. It's barbs turn to pull and buff the team.

It would be cute if the support class wasn't also the DPS class though.
joesmokey
Member
(09-17-2015, 08:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Addnan

Why? It's just like every other season, there needs to be supports and dps. It's barbs turn to pull and buff the team.

This is Diablo though, not an MMO. Requiring support doesn't really make sense for the gameplay. An alternative playstyle option? Sure, that's fine. More effective than another dps class/spec? Why is this even a thing?

Unfortunately this is what the game has turned into and it doesn't seem like the meta is going away.
ZenaxPure
Member
(09-17-2015, 08:49 PM)
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Whining about the current state of barbs in group play has got to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. We're talking about the class that spent the last 3 seasons as the shit-tier class in groups because we didn't have a good group DPS build and no support builds. Sheesh, give me a break. Now you know how it felt to be a barb over the past year.
Firemind
Member
(09-17-2015, 08:54 PM)
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Yah, weren't wizards after the release of RoS super OP?
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by ZenaxPure

Whining about the current state of barbs in group play has got to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. We're talking about the class that spent the last 3 seasons as the shit-tier class in groups because we didn't have a good group DPS build and no support builds. Sheesh, give me a break. Now you know how it felt to be a barb over the past year.

Or like, one idea would be to actually try to balance the classes and not have 2 or 3 in every patch who are broken.
joesmokey
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by ZenaxPure

Whining about the current state of barbs in group play has got to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. We're talking about the class that spent the last 3 seasons as the shit-tier class in groups because we didn't have a good group DPS build and no support builds. Sheesh, give me a break. Now you know how it felt to be a barb over the past year.

This isn't whining about barbs, so I don't know why you see this as a personal attack.

This is about the current meta of the game and how Blizzard chooses to balance classes.
Shuggananas
Banned
(09-17-2015, 09:14 PM)

Originally Posted by godelsmetric

Or like, one idea would be to actually try to balance the classes and not have 2 or 3 in every patch who are broken.

are you out of your mind
h3ro
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:20 PM)
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I tried learning how Mythic Rhythm works and still couldn't wrap my head around it.


So I'm just gonna keep punching stuff until I can kick it and watch it explode.
Firemind
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:20 PM)
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next thing you know you're going to ask for proper pvp
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

Or like, one idea would be to actually try to balance the classes and not have 2 or 3 in every patch who are broken.

Once you pass a certain point it's always going to be the 4 classes that synergizes the best.

Originally Posted by h3ro

I tried learning how Mythic Rhythm works and still couldn't wrap my head around it.


So I'm just gonna keep punching stuff until I can kick it and watch it explode.

this guy gives a pretty good explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky8BaRzjcxA
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

Once you pass a certain point it's always going to be the 4 classes that synergizes the best.

We can talk about that point once the game reaches some vague semblance of balance and all that's left is tweaking values. Diablo III is not in that state.
JoeMartin
(09-17-2015, 09:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Firemind

next thing you know you're going to ask for proper pvp

Thank god they scrapped that abortion and we can only hope they never open that pandora's box again.

Originally Posted by godelsmetric

We can talk about that point once the game reaches some vague semblance of balance and all that's left is tweaking values. Diablo III is not in that state.

And we can only hope that they continue to update the game with new and broken items and sets with enough regularity that the game never will reach that point. Because then it would be boring.
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

We can talk about that point once the game reaches some vague semblance of balance and all that's left is tweaking values. Diablo III is not in that state.

The game is in a much better state than it used to be. It's been getting more balanced with every patch. You can absolutely play any class you want now to T10. GR pushing and FoTM stuff is always going to be around. It's just the nature of the game. On the bright side at least the FoTM is changing from season to season and keeping things fresh.

Do you guys not remember the dark days where only a couple classes could even make it past A2 of inferno? LOL. These complains are all really weird to me. We've gone from a place where some classes couldn't even finish the game on the hardest difficulty, to classes having maybe one set that could clear content, to now having classes that can all clear the content and some that have 3-5 variations of builds/sets that can clear the content. It's all moving in the right direction and getting better and better. I mean you can turn a blind eye to the progress that is being made and keep complaining I guess.
TBiddy
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:49 PM)
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Hello!

Where is the easiest (and cheapest) place to get D3 - Evil Edition for XB1?

I don't really feel like paying 83$ USD on the Danish Xbox store :(
Addnan
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:52 PM)

Originally Posted by TBiddy

Hello!

Where is the easiest (and cheapest) place to get D3 - Evil Edition for XB1?

I don't really feel like paying 83$ USD on the Danish Xbox store :(

Might be better of asking in here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=894608 They can usually help find good deals
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

The game is in a much better state than it used to be. It's been getting more balanced with every patch. You can absolutely play any class you want now to T10. GR pushing and FoTM stuff is always going to be around. It's just the nature of the game. On the bright side at least the FoTM is changing from season to season and keeping things fresh.

Do you guys not remember the dark days where only a couple classes could even make it past A2 of inferno? LOL. These complains are all really weird to me. We've gone from a place where some classes couldn't even finish the game on the hardest difficulty, to classes having maybe one set that could clear content, to now having classes that can all clear the content and some that have 3-5 variations of builds/sets that can clear the content. It's all moving in the right direction and getting better and better. I mean you can turn a blind eye to the progress that is being made and keep complaining I guess.

Why would complaining imply turning a blind eye to the progress? I haven't played D3 since ROS vanilla. The game is more fun than it was then, but the balance is still plainly terrible even if it's much improved.
TBiddy
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Addnan

Might be better of asking in here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=894608 They can usually help find good deals

Ahhh, thanks! Will do! :)
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:53 PM)
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BTW some of these complainers are hypocritical as fuck. In season 1 I played WD and it was in a really fucking bad spot and you know what some of the people whining right now did? They just stopped playing with me, period. I tried to switch classes and they just pretended like I didn't exist so don't expect some sympathy from me because your class falls off at GR55 lmao. When I'm running rifts my games are always open. If you want to switch classes just come get some shared loot.

Originally Posted by godelsmetric

Why would complaining imply turning a blind eye to the progress? I haven't played D3 since ROS vanilla. The game is more fun than it was then, but the balance is still plainly terrible even if it's much improved.


That's the thing, the balance isn't even that bad right now so even if we aren't looking at it in context it is still pretty good for what it is. Every class can hit GR60 (look at the clan leaderboards we have 60's for almost every class). Hardcore GR leaderboard pushing is really shitty no matter what class you are and that's a completely different discussion. It's not like some classes are solo speed farming 70's and others are stuck in the 40s or something like that.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 09:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

That's the thing, the balance isn't even that bad right now so even if we aren't looking at it in context it is still pretty good for what it is.

?

The balance is terrible right now. If the game were in any way competitive it would not be worth playing.
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

?

The balance is terrible right now. If the game were in any way competitive it would not be worth playing.

Good thing it is PvE then right? Come on.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

Good thing it is PvE then right? Come on.

As I said before, as a wizard my contribution to playing with my friend's monk in GRs is to sit AFK in the entrance while he clears the rift and then run at the end to level up my gems. There's literally no reason to help him because by the time I manage to stack all my shit high enough to actually do damage, he has already killed all the mobs.

This is not a well-balanced game, and it's not fun either.
SmartWaffles
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(09-17-2015, 10:02 PM)
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The balance is more off than any other previous seasons/patches. Wizards have been in middling spot for a good half year if not more and Crusaders have been straight shit tier post 2.1.

Originally Posted by TBiddy

Hello!

Where is the easiest (and cheapest) place to get D3 - Evil Edition for XB1?

I don't really feel like paying 83$ USD on the Danish Xbox store :(

Use the xbox store region trick to jump to HK or US and buy there, it is legit and won't get you banned.
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

As I said before, as a wizard my contribution to playing with my friend's monk in GRs is to sit AFK in the entrance while he clears the rift and then run at the end to level up my gems. There's literally no reason to help him because by the time I manage to stack all my shit high enough to actually do damage, he has already killed all the mobs.

This is not a well-balanced game, and it's not fun either.

If that's how you choose to play Wizard then I am not surprised you're not having fun. I don't know what your situation is between you and your friend but if you don't find getting carried enjoyable then do something else but why party up with him and sit at the entrance then complain about it? It's not like hes forcing you to do that.. or maybe he is. Who knows. :)
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

If that's how you choose to play Wizard then I am not surprised you're not having fun. I don't know what your situation is between you and your friend but if you don't find getting carried enjoyable then do something else but why party up with him and sit at the entrance then complain about it? It's not like hes forcing you to do that.. or maybe he is. Who knows. :)

I mean I could get an Aether Walker and use all my AP teleporting through the dungeon pointlessly weakening all of the mobs that he's going to run in and 1-hit anyway, but what's the point?

The class is loads of fun to play solo for what it's worth.

It's either that or run through the rift behind him mopping up the trash mobs that he leaves behind. Past a certain point it's easier to tab out of the game and wait while he finishes the rift in 3 minutes.
joesmokey
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(09-17-2015, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

BTW some of these complainers are hypocritical as fuck. In season 1 I played WD and it was in a really fucking bad spot and you know what some of the people whining right now did? They just stopped playing with me, period. I tried to switch classes and they just pretended like I didn't exist so don't expect some sympathy from me because your class falls off at GR55 lmao. When I'm running rifts my games are always open. If you want to switch classes just come get some shared loot.

Not sure who you're calling out here as I've always grouped with anyone willing to group. I agree that that's not really the case with most of the people in the guild though.


Anyway, this discussion isn't really getting us anywhere. My main point is that this game isn't designed anymore for those that don't want to play the flavor-of-the-month classes. It hasn't been for awhile. It's fine if that's your thing, but it's not for everyone.
eek5
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(09-17-2015, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by joesmokey

Not sure who you're calling out here as I've always grouped with anyone willing to group. I agree that that's not really the case with most of the people in the guild though.

Bro I'm calling you out! You literally said my WD was "too slow" and never played with me again lol



Anyway, this discussion isn't really getting us anywhere. My main point is that this game isn't designed anymore for those that don't want to play the flavor-of-the-month classes. It hasn't been for awhile. It's fine if that's your thing, but it's not for everyone.

It all depends on what your goals are. You could 4-man comp speed GR-55's with almost any combination except for Crusader because fuck Crusader.
joesmokey
Member
(09-17-2015, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

Bro I'm calling you out!

You must be crazy. When I used to run groups I'd add anyone interested. Being full is a different story from excluding. Most of the times I didn't even run the groups though.
eek5
Member
(09-17-2015, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by joesmokey

You must be crazy. When I used to run groups I'd add anyone interested. Being full is a different story from excluding. Most of the times I didn't even run the groups though.

Talking about S1 bro. Maybe that's the case now but it wasn't always like that ;)
joesmokey
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(09-17-2015, 10:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by eek5

Talking about S1 bro. Maybe that's the case now but it wasn't always like that ;)

S1 I didn't even do competitive group play though... All I focused on was solo leaderboard and T6 runs.
SmartWaffles
Member
(09-17-2015, 10:24 PM)
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Going to start a Barb since I might hit a road block on my Wiz. Anything I need to know? A weapon with gem of ease and nothing else? Don't have people to boost me currently so it has to be the hard way.
JoeMartin
(09-17-2015, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

As I said before, as a wizard my contribution to playing with my friend's monk in GRs is to sit AFK in the entrance while he clears the rift and then run at the end to level up my gems. There's literally no reason to help him because by the time I manage to stack all my shit high enough to actually do damage, he has already killed all the mobs.

This is not a well-balanced game, and it's not fun either.

You should probably try something higher than GR3, then. Maybe I'm playing the game completely wrong here but I spend a lot of time hitting enormous packs of relatively stationary of mobs while farming GR65, and I've done it with wizards in my party no less.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(09-17-2015, 10:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by JoeMartin

You should probably try something higher than GR3, then. Maybe I'm playing the game completely wrong here but I spend a lot of time hitting enormous packs of relatively stationary of mobs while farming GR65, and I've done it with wizards in my party no less.

'We're' up to about GR40.
Addnan
Member
(09-17-2015, 10:33 PM)
GR40 is steam roll material that's why there's nothing for you to do.

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