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IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
(02-16-2015, 04:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shimesaba

From Mew2King's Brawl Hate thread, linked above:



Spade59, you were so right.

And it will be around for other 4-6 years anyway. I don't think people should worry about Melee too much. At least people are still around to support Melee then it should have a long life.
WarRock
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(02-16-2015, 04:40 AM)
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What an awesome thread.
Necromanti
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(02-16-2015, 04:46 AM)
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I keep forgetting just how broken Melee (and its physics) was. It definitely allowed for a lot of weird things to be pulled off.
jholmes
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(02-16-2015, 04:49 AM)
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Great OP! Fantastic read. The work put in is greatly appreciated. I haven't played much Melee since college so this was a nice walk down memory lane.
ACE 1991
Member
(02-16-2015, 04:59 AM)
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As someone who knows nothing about competitive Melee, this was a very cool read. Thanks for making the thread.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
(02-16-2015, 05:08 AM)
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You weren't joking when you said you're writing a novel. Nice work. Good read. Concise, and full of pertinent information.
Josh5890
Member
(02-16-2015, 05:27 AM)
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Well made thread my friend.
Neol
Member
(02-16-2015, 05:31 AM)
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Nice OP.

Been following this scene since the times where Masashi was considered to be the best fox. Never would have thought the game would still be this strong after all these years.
El Sabroso
Member
(02-16-2015, 05:33 AM)
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Great OP, lots of really good information :)
Cody_D165
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(02-16-2015, 05:36 AM)
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good shit Anth0ny! this thread was worth the wait.

Originally Posted by Anth0ny

This all changed one day in 2007, when his Fox controller broke and he was forced to use Marth instead.

lol m2k
Last edited by Cody_D165; 02-16-2015 at 05:43 AM.
emb
Member
(02-16-2015, 05:37 AM)
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Nice work on the op!

I've never subbed to a thread with more confidence.
GamerJM
Member
(02-16-2015, 05:45 AM)
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Great topic!

Small nitpick, the issue of Nintendo Power that featured competitive Smash was in 2005, not 2006. I remember this very distinctly because that's when I first read about Ken and other players.
Codeblue
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(02-16-2015, 05:54 AM)
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Had no idea M2K uses different controllers for different characters. That's mind blowing.

Great job on the thread, Anth0ny.
Cody_D165
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(02-16-2015, 05:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Codeblue

Had no idea M2K uses different controllers for different characters. That's mind blowing.

Great job on the thread, Anth0ny.

there have been a fair number of tournaments where he reportedly carries around a box full of controllers
Neol
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(02-16-2015, 06:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cody_D165

there have been a fair number of tournaments where he reportedly carries around a box full of controllers

Yup.

Was even held hostage at one point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivOuL4s-VpI
theprodigy
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(02-16-2015, 06:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cody_D165

there have been a fair number of tournaments where he reportedly carries around a box full of controllers

Originally Posted by Cody_D165

lol m2k

.
The Lamp
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(02-16-2015, 06:08 AM)
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I can't imagine how long that OP took you to write. Fantastic job.
JediLink
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(02-16-2015, 07:39 AM)
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Aw yeah. MeleeGAF hype!
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
(02-16-2015, 07:51 AM)
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best thread ever

marth/falco/wannabe jiggs checking in

subbed and so ready for my first tourny the 28th
Kyzon
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(02-16-2015, 08:15 AM)
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I main Zelda here.

I don't like to win.
Anth0ny
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(02-16-2015, 08:32 AM)
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I'm blown away by all of the kind words. Thanks everyone! Sounds like you guys enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it :D


There is a severe lack of Amsa in this thread. Here's some Amsa:







Be on the look out for this Yoshi, everyone. It's scary, and he improves with every tournament.
Mikel1015
Banned
(02-16-2015, 08:42 AM)
One thing I can't stand is melee fanboys who think any smash bros game that isn't melee is automatic garbage and don't deserve to be a part of the smash bros community/competitive scene.

Yes I am bitter towards those morons at the Apex finale
Anth0ny
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(02-16-2015, 08:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mikel1015

One thing I can't stand is melee fanboys who think any smash bros game that isn't melee is automatic garbage and don't deserve to be a part of the smash bros community/competitive scene.

Yes I am bitter towards those morons at the Apex finale

Me too.
chaosblade
Member
(02-16-2015, 08:51 AM)
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Great OP, does a good job covering everything.

I only play PM and not Melee, but it's hella fun to watch and most technical stuff applies to both (but Melee is harder).

A huge regret of mine is dumping Smash entirely when Brawl came out. I discovered competitive Smash around 2005 or so, but I wasn't playing many console games at all at that time so I didn't really dabble in it. By 2007 I was back into consoles and instead of learning Melee I decided to wait for Brawl. Awful decision, because I didn't play Brawl for more than a few months before dropping it entirely. I still liked Melee, but it didn't seem like it was going to have a future so I didn't go back to it either. If only I'd known...

Also, yes, moonwalking might be unnecessary (doubly so in PM with RAR) but dammit I play Falcon and feel like I need to learn to do it!
Roboleon
Don't fear god, Don't worry about death; What is good is easy to get, and what is terrible is easy to endure
(02-16-2015, 08:58 AM)
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I wish they would release a digital version for the Wii U! They could do that, like SMG2 and MPT, right?
Anth0ny
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(02-16-2015, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Roboleon

I wish they would release a digital version for the Wii U! They could do that, like SMG2 and MPT, right?

They absolutely could. In fact, with homebrew, you can play Melee on your Wii U right now.

If Nintendo ends up doing Gamecube Virtual Console for Wii U, you'd have to imagine the best selling Gamecube game would make it on there. They released Smash 64 on Wii Virtual Console, after all.
GamerJM
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(02-16-2015, 09:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by chaosblade

Great OP, does a good job covering everything.

I only play PM and not Melee, but it's hella fun to watch and most technical stuff applies to both (but Melee is harder).

A huge regret of mine is dumping Smash entirely when Brawl came out. I discovered competitive Smash around 2005 or so, but I wasn't playing many console games at all at that time so I didn't really dabble in it. By 2007 I was back into consoles and instead of learning Melee I decided to wait for Brawl. Awful decision, because I didn't play Brawl for more than a few months before dropping it entirely. I still liked Melee, but it didn't seem like it was going to have a future so I didn't go back to it either. If only I'd known...

Also, yes, moonwalking might be unnecessary (doubly so in PM with RAR) but dammit I play Falcon and feel like I need to learn to do it!

My biggest regret is being turned off of participating in the competitive community myself after participating in a 2005 local tournament that was timed with no stage bans where I got destroyed by a campy Link on Temple, and then later finding out about advanced techniques and not being able to perform a wavedash because I thought you had to do an extra input that you don't actually have to do. It took getting randomly paired up with people who happened to TO local events as roommates last year and having them bug me to come to tournaments a few times after playing with them for a few months, even though I was already following the competitive community for years before I met them.
Brakke
(02-16-2015, 09:14 AM)
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Incredible OP thanks for putting it together. This scene is fascinating lunacy.

Those commentators sure do like to say "rape" huh.
drotahorror
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(02-16-2015, 09:26 AM)
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Awesome read. I never was big into Smash, but I watched that documentary and loved it. This write up was sick as well. Thanks.
KimiNewt
Scored 3/100 on an Exam
(02-16-2015, 09:35 AM)
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Great OP.
I've been trying to get back into Melee recently, but it's difficult as there was basically no community here (Israel) even in the heyday (Nintendo consoles never even shipped here officially).

I have a few friends that played with me, but would now prefer the Wii U version. I'm all for playing all versions, but when the total amount of players in the country is lower than 10-- it's not really good to further fragment (I am also inexplicably terrible at it).

I'm having a first semi-competitive get-together at my place this week, so I hope it goes well.
cantona222
Member
(02-16-2015, 09:51 AM)
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Great thread OP. I loved the depth. Great timing for me since I've wanted to learn more about the competitive scene in Melee. I will come back soon to finish reading the thread.
FSLink
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(02-16-2015, 11:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anth0ny

They absolutely could. In fact, with homebrew, you can play Melee on your Wii U right now.

If Nintendo ends up doing Gamecube Virtual Console for Wii U, you'd have to imagine the best selling Gamecube game would make it on there. They released Smash 64 on Wii Virtual Console, after all.

Speaking of which, using Nintendont on Wii U + Gamecube adapter, is it good enough to play Melee on that instead of my GCN all the time?
Tsumiya
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(02-16-2015, 11:07 AM)
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Amazing and informative thread. LFFN is my favorite! This year has already been so crazy for competitive smash.
chaosblade
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(02-16-2015, 11:13 AM)
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A couple things that may not be worth adding to the OP but are something for a new player to think over.

Don't practice/learn wavedashing with Luigi. Some people (probably ones who don't actually play) tend to recommend learning with him since he has low traction and a long wavedash, but it's better to learn with the character you actually intend to use. If that is Luigi then great, but characters have different timing based on their jump squat. Best to get comfortable with your character instead of having to "relearn" it.

And for dash dancing, the most important thing to understand is that it isn't "running back and forth." It is space control, and each dash is just an option. If you are just mindlessly dashing back and forth, you may as well be standing still (in fact standing is probably a better idea in that case). Every move should have a purpose, and that includes during dash dancing.
Tablo
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(02-16-2015, 11:17 AM)
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Amazing OP, Platinum Age is glorious.
Cronox
Banned
(02-16-2015, 12:36 PM)
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Love the thread, just a couple suggestions - for people looking to find a local scene, this link is pretty exhaustive.

Also, for the smash doc, maybe linking to the playlist would be better so people know what they're looking at before they sit down - 9 episodes of great documentary stuff. Samox (the filmmaker) is making a feature length doc about Armada that's been filming for some time now too!

Melee matches are by far the most hype video game to watch for me. I don't even play it anymore, but man, what the best players in the world are doing in this game is crazy, especially when you know how many inputs are necessary to make that happen. If I was 10 years younger I'd be working at getting good at the game myself. Given where I'm at now, I'll satisfy myself with playing Smash 4 where my old man reaction time doesn't hurt me quite as much. But I'll definitely be tuning in to Melee at Evo!
Gaston
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(02-16-2015, 12:46 PM)
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Great thread! I really need to get my melee netplay up and running. I have been playing a lot of PM as of late (ditched Sm4sh), but I would like to start practicing my melee as well. Finally am getting the hang of moonwalking so I have a feeling I will be playing a lot of Falcon!
ec0ec0
Member
(02-16-2015, 12:47 PM)
apart from the suggestions that i made in the previous page (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...2&postcount=44) , i'd like to add this:

Originally Posted by chaosblade

(talking about wavesashing) ...characters have different timing based on their jump squat..

i think that this should definitely be mentioned in the OP (it would only take another phrase :p). You would only have to mention it, as there's a list of the different timings in Wak's “Advanced how to play” videos.

EDIT: another thing xD the other thread made me think about something: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=234

how the game handles your inputs is really different in melee and can feel differrent to people coming from newer smash games. Mentioning buffering may be a good idea?
Last edited by ec0ec0; 02-16-2015 at 03:28 PM.
0xCA2
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(02-16-2015, 01:02 PM)
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Right when you post this someone posts a new Melee vs Brawl thread.

Originally Posted by Brakke

Incredible OP thanks for putting it together. This scene is fascinating lunacy.

Those commentators sure do like to say "rape" huh.

There was a conscious effort to stop this several years ago IIRC, along with 'gay' (replaced by 'lame'). People don't say it anymore. It's said often in old matches, though.
Mr. Nice_Guy
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(02-16-2015, 01:13 PM)
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Insane write up Anth0ny. A great walk down memory lane, and just gets me all the more hyped for 2 Smash games at EVO this year.
Kimosabae
Banned
(02-16-2015, 03:42 PM)
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Great job, Anthony. Wonder why I never thought to do this myself.

Only problem that I have: "Platinum Age" heading. Seems a bit premature. Who knows where this scene is going to be 5 years from now? The heading implies that this is the scene at its apex and I don't know about that. Still feels like it's got some rise left in it.
Azure J
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(02-16-2015, 03:52 PM)
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So honestly, how does everyone else see the breakdown of the topmost players in Melee currently? I feel like it looks something like this right now:

5 Gods (no real order here)

Mango
Armada
PPMD
Hungrybox
Mew2King

Godslayer/The Demon

Leffen

Demigods

Axe
Hax
Colbol
Shroomed
Amsa (has definitely earned a spot here but could break out into his own tier above this; not quite top 5 killer or top 5 killer killer yet)
PewPewU
Westballz (can also be in his own "What The Hell Westballz" tier)
SilentWolf
Hugs
Mumei
Member
(02-16-2015, 04:15 PM)
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Fantastic OP.

Originally Posted by Anth0ny

In 2007, there were many players attempting to break into the upper echelon of Melee play. Jason “Mew2King” Zimmerman was one of them. An extremely dedicated and technical player, M2K created what is essentially a bible of Melee knowledge by himself: a frame by frame analysis of the game using nothing but the pause button.

Heh. I remember when he was first posting information on Smashboards. I also remember him getting some grief about the fact that his experience was, at the time, almost exclusively against the computer. When I started watching fighting game streams in 2011 (MvC3), I went back and watched a lot of the SSBM stuff I missed (when I had last looked, Ken was the best Marth in the world). When I saw that that M2K was one of the very best players in the world, I did a double-take. Wait, that Mew2King? The same guy that was posting on Smashboards six or seven years ago?

I was quite impressed.
sinxtanx
(02-16-2015, 04:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kimosabae

Great job, Anthony. Wonder why I never thought to do this myself.

Only problem that I have: "Platinum Age" heading. Seems a bit premature. Who knows where this scene is going to be 5 years from now? The heading implies that this is the scene at its apex and I don't know about that. Still feels like it's got some rise left in it.

Platinum age been going for two years almost already
and we still got EVO this year

I'd say that counts as an age
ec0ec0
Member
(02-16-2015, 04:23 PM)
From the 2006 issue of Nintendo Power:

- 2006 Bill Trinen: "The C stick is simply an aid for inexperienced players who need it. If you don't need it, you should be ashamed of using it."

haha wow (he definitely needed to learn a couple if things about the C-stick...)

Also, Anth0ny, about the C-stick, you can mention in the OP that it's funtion changes in 1 player mode. F*cking Nintendo...
Last edited by ec0ec0; 02-16-2015 at 04:26 PM.
sinxtanx
(02-16-2015, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Azure J

various gods

Gfygods
Bizarro Flame
Green Ranger
theprodigy
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(02-16-2015, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ec0ec0

From the 2006 issue of Nintendo Power:



haha wow (he definitely needed to learn a couple if things about the C-stick...)

Also, Anth0ny, about the C-stick, you can mention in the OP that it's funtion changes in 1 player mode. F*cking Nintendo...

lol Trinen pls someone check if he uses the C-stick with Rosalina
ec0ec0
Member
(02-16-2015, 04:47 PM)
There's another phrase that i liked in the article. Someone talking about melee:

- Alan Averill: "...there is so much order in the midst of the chaos."

chaosblade
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(02-16-2015, 04:51 PM)
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I suppose this is an appropriate place to ask: is there a gif/gfycat/youtube link to Wizzrobe and Gahtzu doing synchronized haxdashes? Saw them do it a little at Paragon (I think) but there was a comment they did it more/better somewhere previously. Was highly impressive.
Scythesurge
Member
(02-16-2015, 04:51 PM)
Best thread on GAF ;) and a wonderful OP! Seeing all of this in 2015 makes me so happy...the memories of money matches in Smash 64 leading to the shift to playing and learning Melee to the local tournaments...and now we're e-sports. Seems like retiring from Melee is a temporary thing for most players, including myself. I'm really loving all of the Melee streams on twitch now, I've been learning so much and just having fun chilling in the streams!

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