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Kilrogg · Mar 22, 2017

Porcile said:
I heard hoshii and te hoshii today at school (teachers speaking to student). Consider everything I say and have ever said as completely invalid, if you haven't done so already.

You still have a lot to learn, young grasshopper...

as do I :/

Aizo said:
I was one step ahead of ya.

Savage.

Hypron said:
Yeah definitely... I've only been back to France once since I came here since it's so expensive...

People IRL keep asking me "when are you going back to Japan", to which I always want to reply "when I'm not poor and I have more time". It's been 6 years since I last was there. To be fair, I don't like traveling all that much - ironic, I know -, especially on my own.

Porcile · Mar 22, 2017

Aizo really hates me. I'm glad someone here can replace I'm an expert in my internet life though.

Skinpop · Mar 22, 2017

I wrote a few months ago about how I was learning the 2300 kanji using a hybrid heisig approach. I learnt the last kanji in the middle of january(so 3.5 months for all of it). Still on reviews but I have really good retention overall, 20 minutes a day is more than enough(during the learning period I was at 2-3 hrs per day).

I've been reading a lot since then and the improvement is huge. Though obviously vocabulary is a separate issue it's incredibly liberating to almost never have to look up a kanji. More than anything it's fun and It's hard for me to believe that I actually know all these kanji after such a short time. Reading isn't such a slog anymore when all you need to do is a quick vocab or grammar lookup.

There's a lot of skepticism around the Heisig method and while I agree with the criticism overall I do think that if you already have good japanese skills(maybe you've been forgetting kanji or never was able to keep the studies up) and use a hybrid approach it's very efficient. I do not think it's a good idea for beginners!
My hybrid approach was that I decided I need know at least two readings and a few vocabulary per kanji to pass a review. For me since I already had a decent vocab it meant I could connect most kanjis to words and sounds immediately, obviously this would not be possible for a beginner and is therefore not a suitable method in that case.

urfe · Mar 22, 2017

Not sure if you can sign up outside Japan, but I just signed up for dマガジン, and there's so so much to read. 400 yen/month for what seems like 100s of magazines, some weekly. Famtisu is there for gaming stuff.

L Thammy · Mar 22, 2017

Can I just come in here to complain? Not about you guys, about Human Japanese Intermediate.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool. I used the beginner level Human Japanese and loved it. But the chapters are so damn long with Intermediate. With the beginner level one I could read one every day during a trip on the bus / train, plus I'd do some German in Duolinguo. Felt so productive, it was great. Can't pull it off with Intermediate.

Plus, the fact that it's alternating with vocabulary chapters is killing me. I feel like I'm just absolute shit at retaining new words. And then I end up looking at all the sentences I'm supposed to understand at this point and I just feel overwhelmed.

I took a "break" where I just studied the kanji radicals and conjugation (regular and irregular) via Anki and now I'm trying to get back into it, but I'm looking at those gigantic word-filled chapters and I'm full of dread.

There also needs to be a way to set a review schedule or something. Right now I cooked up a Macro in Excel that randomly picks a chapter for me to review, but that's on my laptop and I'm studying on my phone. Not the most convenient solution.

Sakura · Mar 22, 2017

Skinpop said:
I wrote a few months ago about how I was learning the 2300 kanji using a hybrid heisig approach. I learnt the last kanji in the middle of january(so 3.5 months for all of it). Still on reviews but I have really good retention overall, 20 minutes a day is more than enough(during the learning period I was at 2-3 hrs per day).

I've been reading a lot since then and the improvement is huge. Though obviously vocabulary is a separate issue it's incredibly liberating to almost never have to look up a kanji. More than anything it's fun and It's hard for me to believe that I actually know all these kanji after such a short time. Reading isn't such a slog anymore when all you need to do is a quick vocab or grammar lookup.

There's a lot of skepticism around the Heisig method and while I agree with the criticism overall I do think that if you already have good japanese skills(maybe you've been forgetting kanji or never was able to keep the studies up) and use a hybrid approach it's very efficient. I do not think it's a good idea for beginners!
My hybrid approach was that I decided I need know at least two readings and a few vocabulary per kanji to pass a review. For me since I already had a decent vocab it meant I could connect most kanjis to words and sounds immediately, obviously this would not be possible for a beginner and is therefore not a suitable method in that case.

My problem is I can't write kanji for shit. I probably know how to read 30 times more kanji than I can write.

Skinpop · Mar 22, 2017

Sakura said:
My problem is I can't write kanji for shit. I probably know how to read 30 times more kanji than I can write.

tbf that's usually not much of a problem. I have a hard time thinking of situations where I need to be able to write lots of kanji by hand. Even natives forget a lot. Since my approach was based on heisig I can write all the kanji I studied, which is nice but it's really the recall I did it for.

Sakura · Mar 22, 2017

Skinpop said:
tbf that's usually not much of a problem. I have a hard time thinking of situations where I need to be able to write lots of kanji by hand. Even natives forget a lot. Since my approach was based on heisig I can write all the kanji I studied, which is nice but it's really the recall I did it for.

Well, my problem is I am supposed to be starting university in Japan next month. But I feel my inability to write kanji is going to make it difficult to take notes/write reports/etc. Though maybe putting myself in that environment will cause me to improve.

L Thammy · Mar 22, 2017

Reading skill is always superior to writing skill.

Deleted member 17706 · Mar 22, 2017

Sakura said:
Well, my problem is I am supposed to be starting university in Japan next month. But I feel my inability to write kanji is going to make it difficult to take notes/write reports/etc. Though maybe putting myself in that environment will cause me to improve.

It will be tough at first, but putting yourself in that environment will certainly help.

Resilient · Mar 22, 2017

Sakura said:
Well, my problem is I am supposed to be starting university in Japan next month. But I feel my inability to write kanji is going to make it difficult to take notes/write reports/etc. Though maybe putting myself in that environment will cause me to improve.

if you have a month start the whiteboard method, that should help you cement that most basic Kanji easily, i'd say you'd be able to master about 800 if you already have good reading skills. it's never too late to start and IMO you'd be crazy NOT to do this.

L Thammy said:
Reading skill is always superior to writing skill.

WTF. the two go hand in hand.
why is this somehow different for Japanese.

if you didn't know how to write English you wouldn't have been able to write that crazy post.

L Thammy · Mar 22, 2017

Resilient said:
WTF. the two go hand in hand.
why is this somehow different for Japanese.

if you didn't know how to write English you wouldn't have been able to write that crazy post.

Huh? I think it's a pretty standard statement; I've certainly heard it a billion times with regards to English.

You're always going to read more than you write, and reading skill is less dependent on writing skill than writing skill is on reading. That is, you don't have to reproduce the sentence to figure out what it means, but you have to know what it means in order to write it.

Maybe I was vague. A person's reading skill is always better than that person's writing skill.

Hypron · Mar 22, 2017

Resilient said:
WTF. the two go hand in hand.
why is this somehow different for Japanese.

Well I mean, he is correct. Regardless of the language you will read a lot more than you write, and being able to read really involved texts does not mean you will be able to write anything remotely similar.

Not an excuse for neglecting an aspect of the language though.

Resilient · Mar 22, 2017

L Thammy said:
Huh? I think it's a pretty standard statement; I've certainly heard it a billion times with regards to English.

You're always going to read more than you write, and reading skill is less dependent on writing skill than writing skill is on reading. That is, you don't have to reproduce the sentence to figure out what it means, but you have to know what it means in order to write it.

Maybe I was vague. A person's reading skill is always better than that person's writing skill.

Hypron said:
Well I mean, he is correct. Regardless of the language you will read a lot more than you write, and being able to read really involved texts does not mean you will be able to write anything remotely similar.

Not an excuse for neglecting an aspect of the language though.

why do these discussions always come down to the fine technicalities with Japanese?

I'm going to use "a language" for this.

OK - I'll agree as far as, it's a more useful skill to be able to read a language than it is to write a language. You can do more by being able to read. But it's not more valuable, or superior. The two depend on each other (and being able to speak and hear) if you want to fully understand or master a language. Not to mention the trend or idea these days to neglect writing skill (which is based on statements like those quoted) is dangerous because it leaves people half educated. Breeds a bunch of people that don't know how to write shit.

As with anything it comes down to what you want to achieve. If you only want to play games or read manga then being able to write doesn't matter. But it will sure as shit help you learn to read, and give you a much broader grasp of the language than if you neglect it.

ikuze · Mar 22, 2017

Resilient said:
if you have a month start the whiteboard method, that should help you cement that most basic Kanji easily, i'd say you'd be able to master about 800 if you already have good reading skills. it's never too late to start and IMO you'd be crazy NOT to do this.

Any news when your best-of/remastered post of the method will come, if ever?

I have to study for an IT exam I have to take in the middle of April. After that I would have all the time in the world to go all in on the whiteboard method. My whiteboard is already waiting for me.😏

edit: please don't misinterpret the "if ever" lol

L Thammy · Mar 22, 2017

Resilient said:
why do these discussions always come down to the fine technicalities with Japanese?

I'm going to use "a language" for this.

OK - I'll agree as far as, it's a more useful skill to be able to read a language than it is to write a language. You can do more by being able to read. But it's not more valuable, or superior. The two depend on each other (and being able to speak and hear) if you want to fully understand or master a language. Not to mention the trend or idea these days to neglect writing skill (which is based on statements like those quoted) is dangerous because it leaves people half educated. Breeds a bunch of people that don't know how to write shit.

As with anything it comes down to what you want to achieve. If you only want to play games or read manga then being able to write doesn't matter. But it will sure as shit help you learn to read, and give you a much broader grasp of the language than if you neglect it.

Did someone argue that you shouldn't learn how to write? Sakura said " I probably know how to read 30 times more kanji than I can write." They're going to need to practice the skill, and they're probably going to get a lot of practice like it or not in university, but they're still going to end up reading better than they write.

Resilient · Mar 22, 2017

ikuze said:
Any news when your best-of/remastered post of the method will come, if ever?
I have to study for an IT exam I have to take in the middle of April. After that I would have all the time in the world to go all in on the whiteboard method. My whiteboard is already waiting for me.😏

edit: please don't misinterpret the "if ever" lol

I will do this. I'm truly sorry, got super busy and haven't had the time for it. If writing it means at least you do it that's good enough reason for me.

L Thammy said:
Did someone argue that you shouldn't learn how to write? Sakura said " I probably know how to read 30 times more kanji than I can write." They're going to need to practice the skill, and they're probably going to get a lot of practice like it or not in university, but they're still going to end up reading better than they write.

You're ...changing the topic. I already made my point clear in the original quote so I'm done lol.

ikuze · Mar 23, 2017

Resilient said:
I will do this. I'm truly sorry, got super busy and haven't had the time for it. If writing it means at least you do it that's good enough reason for me.

Don't worry about it!
Like I said, I have to study for an exam in April and couldn't invest much time into the whiteboard method until I finished that exam.
And I definitely want to do the whiteboard method.

Aizo · Mar 23, 2017

Porcile said:
Aizo really hates me. I'm glad someone here can replace I'm an expert in my internet life though.

No way. I don't dislike you at all. I was definitely making an exaggerated response to joke with you. It's just that I read your comment before, and I disregarded it because you saying you've never heard a teacher at your school use a certain Japanese phrase when you haven't even lived here a year isn't saying much. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

Porcile · Mar 23, 2017

Aizo said:
No way. I don't dislike you at all. I was definitely making an exaggerated response to joke with you. It's just that I read your comment before, and I disregarded it because you saying you've never heard a teacher at your school use a certain Japanese phrase when you haven't even lived here a year isn't saying much. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

I'm messin', and I don't expect anyone to read anything I write here or the other Japan thread with anything other than a huge amount of scepticism. NeoGAF is just me farting out my thoughts onto a virtual public place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YG3XnGC0o8

Resilient · Mar 23, 2017

you guys are cute :3

Fugu · Mar 27, 2017

Hey guys, I pop in this thread every once in awhile and I'm going to try to make a commitment to be more involved in it because it's been a great help/motivator in the past.

On that note, I have a question. I'm basically the opposite of most Japanese learners that I've encountered: My kanji and reading/writing is pretty strong but my listening and speaking are weak. I lived in Japan for awhile and got some benefit from that but the divergence in my listening versus reading comprehension is huge; I have the kanji knowledge for N1 and my reading is around the N1~N2 level but I can't do N2 listening comprehension for the life of me. I did N3 a couple of years ago and breezed through every section except for listening, which I just barely passed.

I have a somewhat relevant anecdote. When I was working in Japan I had a mountain of paperwork to do in Japanese for my company; I had little problem doing the forms myself but explaining what I'd done to the administrative staff was excruciating because I kept having to ask them to speak more slowly and I, in turn, took years to produce a cogent response.

So I'm basically wondering if you guys know of any good sources for focused listening comprehension at the intermediate level. I particularly struggle with vocabulary identification, especially when it comes to homophones. Similarly I tend to get lost when a lot of words that are made up of very common 音読み are used in succession. I know the words but I tend to not recognize them as the words that I know. My mainstay for practising reading has always been the newspaper, but I find listening to the news to be too difficult for me to follow right now because unless I'm really in my head about the context and the vocabulary I expect to hear, I usually just get lost.

Resilient · Mar 27, 2017

Fugu said:
Hey guys, I pop in this thread every once in awhile and I'm going to try to make a commitment to be more involved in it because it's been a great help/motivator in the past.

On that note, I have a question. I'm basically the opposite of most Japanese learners that I've encountered: My kanji and reading/writing is pretty strong but my listening and speaking are weak. I lived in Japan for awhile and got some benefit from that but the divergence in my listening versus reading comprehension is huge; I have the kanji knowledge for N1 and my reading is around the N1~N2 level but I can't do N2 listening comprehension for the life of me. I did N3 a couple of years ago and breezed through every section except for listening, which I just barely passed.

I have a somewhat relevant anecdote. When I was working in Japan I had a mountain of paperwork to do in Japanese for my company; I had little problem doing the forms myself but explaining what I'd done to the administrative staff was excruciating because I kept having to ask them to speak more slowly and I, in turn, took years to produce a cogent response.

So I'm basically wondering if you guys know of any good sources for focused listening comprehension at the intermediate level. I particularly struggle with vocabulary identification, especially when it comes to homophones. Similarly I tend to get lost when a lot of words that are made up of very common 音読み are used in succession. I know the words but I tend to not recognize them as the words that I know. My mainstay for practising reading has always been the newspaper, but I find listening to the news to be too difficult for me to follow right now because unless I'm really in my head about the context and the vocabulary I expect to hear, I usually just get lost.

Dramas with Japanese text subs would be perfect for you if your reading level is high.

Jintor · Mar 27, 2017

that feeling when you look at anki for the day and your predicted time is twice as long as normal and you realise you only did half your anki decks yesterday instead of all of them

Leezard · Mar 27, 2017

I have to start to ban kled. Every game he's been in my games lately he has carried the team he's on.

Gacha-pin · Mar 27, 2017

@Kilrogg

https://unkokanji.com/

iirc, you used unchi-kun avatar a few years ago, right? This kanji textbook must be for you!!

I guess you don't need Kanji textbooks anymore.

全例文でうんこの使用に成功！

小学１年生から６年生までに習う漢字１００６字×３例文＝３０１８例文すべてに
「うんこ」を使用することに成功！
だから、子どもたちが笑いながら書き取りできるのです。

・「月刊うんこ」の四月[　]で、ぼくのうんこがしょうかいされている。
・うんこを表す記[　]を考えました。

Beckx · Mar 27, 2017

Jintor said:
that feeling when you look at anki for the day and your predicted time is twice as long as normal and you realise you only did half your anki decks yesterday instead of all of them

This is the worst of all feelings.

Kilrogg · Mar 27, 2017

Gacha-pin said:
@Kilrogg

https://unkokanji.com/

iirc, you used unchi-kun avatar a few years ago, right? This kanji textbook must be for you!!

I guess you don't need Kanji textbooks anymore.

YES

覚えてくれたんだ。すごい記憶力だね。感動。

ってか、書くところがうんこの形をしている本だけじゃん、それｗ

・・・買っちゃおうかなぁ。

MrSaturn99 · Mar 27, 2017

So I've been studying Kanji over the past year via Anki and I've recently learned that recognizing their components is a HUGE help.

Example: 服 (Clothing) has the kanji for "moon/month" to the left, so now I always go "oh, right, getsu/moon is on the left!"

Since I set that into motion, suddenly kanji memorization became a lot easier. I'm certain that's common knowledge for some of you, but I thought I'd share.

When did you guys ease into reading kanji? So far I've had the quirk of recognizing kanji characters when I'm editing my JP game soundtracks in iTunes. The furigana in import manga has been a lifesaver, but obviously that won't always be the case.

Yohane · Mar 27, 2017

Gacha-pin said:
https://unkokanji.com/

Wow this looks really well done! Thanks for sharing!

BigAl1992 · Mar 28, 2017

Hi everyone. So, I decided yesterday after thinking about it for several years that I want to learn Japanese, as I've always been interested in Animes and Mangas from Japan since I was a kid. I want to actually learn how to read and talk the language (I'll save on writing it for the time being, as I'm way too busy at the moment), but I'd like to know where the best place to start in terms of apps as a beginner, so I can get to grips with the basics and start from there, as time is at a premium for me at the moment. Thanks!

Beckx · Mar 28, 2017

You might consider starting with Tae Kim's website, guidetojapanese.org, and then see where that takes you. You will need to learn hiragana and katakana ASAP (which you can do from that site).

Tofugu.com has a lot of reviews & suggestions as well.

Just FYI in terms of starting out, reading and writing will be linked skills (like, if you can read the kana you can write them, and vice-versa). I think when people refer to being able to read but not write Japanese, what they mean is that they have difficulty recalling the correct kanji, which is a down-the-road problem, not a just-starting-out issue.

The best ways to approach it will depend a lot on how you like to study, whether you like textbooks or prefer to learn without them.

BigAl1992 · Mar 28, 2017

Beckx said:
You might consider starting with Tae Kim's website, guidetojapanese.org, and then see where that takes you. You will need to learn hiragana and katakana ASAP (which you can do from that site).

Tofugu.com has a lot of reviews & suggestions as well.

Just FYI in terms of starting out, reading and writing will be linked skills (like, if you can read the kana you can write them, and vice-versa). I think when people refer to being able to read but not write Japanese, what they mean is that they have difficulty recalling the correct kanji, which is a down-the-road problem, not a just-starting-out issue.

The best ways to approach it will depend a lot on how you like to study, whether you like textbooks or prefer to learn without them.

Honestly, I'd prefer to use apps right now. Due to commitments at college, as well as undergoing a recent health diagnosis, I can only spare a quick 10-15 minute session for learning another language right now. Textbooks are going to be something I'll save for later on once I've properly recovered and actually have time to go in-depth. And yeah, I really should have said learn on writing once I understand and remember the Kanji. I want to be able to actually recall it from memory first before I start writing, and I find repetition from reading and speaking helps me to remember a new language better before I start writing.

Gacha-pin · Mar 29, 2017

Kilrogg said:
YES

覚えてくれたんだ。すごい記憶力だね。感動。

ってか、書くところがうんこの形をしている本だけじゃん、それｗ

・・・買っちゃおうかなぁ。

うんこファンにはたまらない本が出版されたんだよ、話のネタとして買っちゃいなよ。For a qucik laugh

Beckx · Mar 29, 2017

just make a shortcut to tae kim in android, it will be like an app.

seriously tae kim is giving you the entirety of basic Japanese grammar + a lot of basic vocabulary for free

sadly I don't know of any well regarded apps for learning japanese but then again, that was never what I wanted, so hopefully others might have recommendations. once you get into learning you can use the anki app to do reviews using either pre-made decks or decks you can make yourself.

I would prioritize starting with learning the kana.

Kansoku · Mar 29, 2017

Erm, guys....

There's a Android app for Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alexisblaze.japanese_grammar&hl=en

Not official, but quite good.

Beckx · Mar 29, 2017

is this grammar natural/correct for "I contact my friend and ask them to help me"?

友達に連絡して、手伝ってくれてと聞きます。

TheSporkWithin · Mar 29, 2017

Beckx said:
is this grammar natural/correct for "I contact my friend and ask them to help me"?

友達に連絡して、手伝ってくれてと聞きます。

No, that's a bit weird and I don't think it would get through. I'd probably change the wording a bit.

友達に連絡して、手助け（てだすけ）を求めます。

Beckx · Mar 29, 2017

Okay. I've parsed through that and it's much simpler. Self study sucks sometimes. I knew what I was doing had to be wrong but couldn't figure out what might be right.

I'm tired. I originally read 手助け and not being familiar with the word assumed it was command form and that I knew even less than I thought I did. Now that I've gone and looked it up and the clause is just noun を verb I don't know whether to feel good or bad, haha.

TheSporkWithin · Mar 29, 2017

Beckx said:
I'm tired. I originally read 手助け and not being familiar with the word assumed it was command form and that I knew even less than I thought I did. Now that I've gone and looked it up and the clause is just noun を verb I don't know whether to feel good or bad, haha.

Ahh, sorry. I probably should have added a note there. But yeah, that's one of the more common ways to say "helping out," or "assistance," or just "help" as a noun. It's probably not on many word lists, but it's pretty common in everyday speech.

Another thing which just occurred to me is that 連絡して might be a bit strange here, as it more signifies "correspond with" than "call on". 友達に頼んで is probably more appropriate. You could even just use that one verb and rephrase the whole thing as 友達に手助けを頼みます。 "ask for help from a friend."

Deleted member 17706 · Mar 29, 2017

Beckx said:
is this grammar natural/correct for "I contact my friend and ask them to help me"?

友達に連絡して、手伝ってくれてと聞きます。

The problem here is that くれ is very assertive. More of a demand, so it doesn't work well with the "ask" meaning of 聞きます.

If you wanted to use 聞く as the verb, then you could do something like this:

友達に連絡して、手伝ってもらえないか聞いてみます。

or

友達に連絡して、手伝ってくれないか聞いてみます。

Both are really just "I'll get in touch with my friend and ask if he/she can't help me."

Beckx · Mar 29, 2017

Thank you both.

Zefah, that really unlocked what I was missing. I really appreciate it.

BigAl1992 · Mar 29, 2017

Beckx said:
just make a shortcut to tae kim in android, it will be like an app.

seriously tae kim is giving you the entirety of basic Japanese grammar + a lot of basic vocabulary for free

sadly I don't know of any well regarded apps for learning japanese but then again, that was never what I wanted, so hopefully others might have recommendations. once you get into learning you can use the anki app to do reviews using either pre-made decks or decks you can make yourself.

I would prioritize starting with learning the kana.

Kansoku said:
Erm, guys....

There's a Android app for Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alexisblaze.japanese_grammar&hl=en

Not official, but quite good.

Thanks very much for the help. Looking forward to using them.

Beckx · Mar 29, 2017

BigAl1992 said:
Thanks very much for the help. Looking forward to using them.

good luck and feel better.

If you need to, don't feel shy about asking questions here as you get into it.

Beckx · Mar 31, 2017

Wanted to share some recent thoughts about listening and see what your experiences/thoughts are.

I do a lot of my listening & speaking practice on the drive home (I also do listening practice at other times, so that I can rewind, etc. - that's usually when I focus on new passages).

I was getting frustrated at myself yesterday for getting lost in the Tobira 読み物 passages despite having read them. What I realized was that I have a tendency to try to translate in my head as I listen, but usually for things that I'm less familiar with. As a result I get "behind" in listening or I'm not really focusing on listening very closely, recognizing syllables. I made a conscious effort to stop doing that, and just try to listen to the syllables as they were spoken (more like what I do when I'm sitting down trying to listen closely to a new passage & handwrite it in a notebook, a lengthy exercise I rarely have time for).

I was immediately surprised that I was able to follow more. But it was also exhausting in a way to maintain the mental discipline of "not translating" and definitely not letting my mind pause to work out something that I would feel I knew but couldn't immediately recall.

Never having really tried to learn a language seriously, I don't have any experience in this, but thought I'd ask here what people's thoughts are, not on "ways to improve listening" but actually how you listen and the mental processes you go through.

Porcile · Apr 2, 2017

Blegh, talking to real estate agents and guarantor companies on the phone and I realise I'm completely utterly shit at this language -_-

Resilient · Apr 2, 2017

Porcile said:
Blegh, talking to real estate agents and guarantor companies on the phone and I realise I'm completely utterly shit at this language -_-

ゲットグッド

Porcile · Apr 2, 2017

Resilient said:
ゲットグッド

シャット・ザ・ファックアップ

You don't even live in Japan. You're even worse than baka English teaching scum like me.

Forkball · Apr 2, 2017

Beckx said:
Wanted to share some recent thoughts about listening and see what your experiences/thoughts are.

I do a lot of my listening & speaking practice on the drive home (I also do listening practice at other times, so that I can rewind, etc. - that's usually when I focus on new passages).

I was getting frustrated at myself yesterday for getting lost in the Tobira 読み物 passages despite having read them. What I realized was that I have a tendency to try to translate in my head as I listen, but usually for things that I'm less familiar with. As a result I get "behind" in listening or I'm not really focusing on listening very closely, recognizing syllables. I made a conscious effort to stop doing that, and just try to listen to the syllables as they were spoken (more like what I do when I'm sitting down trying to listen closely to a new passage & handwrite it in a notebook, a lengthy exercise I rarely have time for).

I was immediately surprised that I was able to follow more. But it was also exhausting in a way to maintain the mental discipline of "not translating" and definitely not letting my mind pause to work out something that I would feel I knew but couldn't immediately recall.

Never having really tried to learn a language seriously, I don't have any experience in this, but thought I'd ask here what people's thoughts are, not on "ways to improve listening" but actually how you listen and the mental processes you go through.

Listening is really difficult for me, and there have been times when I've completely misunderstood sentences because I mistook one word or even one sound. With Japanese, of course the ending to sentences is of paramount importance, so focusing on that is good. I also find that repeating what was said, in my head or even out loud, gives me time to process ideas. Over time as you get exposed to words people commonly say and how people answer, you will be able to easily pick out key words and maybe even predict possible questions or answers.

My main advice is to not get frustrated. Although I am reading at a N1/N2 level, there are times when I can't even understand N3 audio questions. But taking the time to listen several times, read while listening, and focusing on the more difficult aspects of a sentences really helps me process the information easier.

LiveFromKyoto · Apr 9, 2017

この計画を成功させるためなら、手段は選ばない。

I know it means "I'll make this plan work by any means necessary," but the 選ばない in this sentence trips me up. I would read this as something like "I can't decide how to make this plan succeed." (Or my Persona 5 transliteration - 'Concerning the sake of making this plan succeed, as for the means they are undecided.')

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